Light Jet Long Range Flight Planning

[nomorecatering]

Talking about in the class of Cessna CJ4, Learjet 45, Embraer Phenom 300. Private ops...owner flown.

The scanerio, fly a max range trip say Hawaii to San Francisco. 2000nm or there abouts which is right on the range limit with X payload. Over water with no possible diversion point en route.

Now these jets, may be able to do it, by flying the best flight profile possible, 2 engine ops normal. But what about a OEI or DP situation. Do the manufacturers produce charts to show the cruise/FF performance for depressurisation and OEI.

Ive seen numerous small jets do it, is this even a consideration by the owners?

I can immage a loss of cabin pressure about 1/2 way would be the most critical.

Thoughts any one?

[hawker750]

Long Range Ops

Ferry pilots do it all the time, it is just a matter of weighing up the probabilities of something going wrong. With careful planning the risks can be minimised. I consider the risks less than operating a single engine piston at night but not many people discuss this and it is done all the time.
As you rightly say a DP or engine failure at the wrong time is the worst scenario but the critical time is probably only about a 10-20 minute period in the middle. That is just about long enough to have a cigarette, cup of coffee and cross your fingers.
I took a Hawker 700 from California to Oz via Hawaii a couple of years ago. Every "expert" said it could not be done. It turned out to be a non event because it was planned correctly and the conditions/winds suitable and in the end arrived in Hawaii with 2 hours fuel.
If the plane will do it go for it. Operating a plane should be fun and operating it to its limit is part of the excitement. Do not listen to the pessimists, plan it properly and consider HF, additional supplemental oxygen etc and be prepared to wait for favourable winds. Plan for worst case scenarios and you will probably find that all is well albeit struggling back and landing with 15 mins fuel. If you coming up from OZ use Christmas Island (the one in the Pacific, Kiritimati).
Hope your boss says yes and likes adventure. If not he can buy an airline ticket, but that will probably be on a 777 and I cannot remember how many engines that has!

[ksjc]

In marginal jets a common technique to avoid the headwind for the Calif-Hawaii leg is to tech stop at Cold Bay, Alaska and from there to PHNL. Still 2000nm over water but likely not to have the headwind.

Over the years I've seen standard Hawker 700, 800, Westwind II, Sabreliner and Lear 36 on ramps in Hawaii. However, a Lear 35 came up a few miles short several years ago.

Remember that dude out of KMRY in the Cessna 310 a couple of months ago? He almost made it...but ended up 10 miles short of PHTO. Plan carefully.

[nomorecatering]

On avarage bwteen HNL and SFO, what sort of winds are there. Obvously a prevailing westerly is the norm, just curious as to the speed.

I would have thought a Lear, being able to climb into the mid to high 40's flight levels would have been able to get above the headwinds.

[ksjc]

Of course wind more favorable in the summer. Less than 30 knots average perhaps. I went out to Kona last week at FL410 and we had 42 kt average headwind. Don't count on getting above the wind and don't count on step climbing. Might work, might not...depends on traffic.

There are days with no wind and even the odd day or two with a slight tailwind. Best if you are flexible and can make your move when the jet stream is far to the North and wind is light.

[hawker750]

Winds From Hawaii to California at say F/L 390 can be very variable depending on time of year and day to day. Could be lucky and get + 80 but for plannining purposes + 30 or + 40 much more likely unless you are prepared to wait a long time for the perfect conditions. Do not forget that your PNR's and critical point's are hugely affected by wind. I mention these in the plural as it is wise to have all these pre-prepared for twin engine, single engine, DP (15,000ft??). If you spend the time preparing all these it will guarantee you do not need them. Don't bother and it will the time you wish you had. Known as Sods Law.