The no Jobs Saga

[Jugs08]

Just thought i'd ask this after trawling through the threads.
Loads of people seem to claim about not getting a job ect. But are we just talking airline jobs here? Regional jobs? Or the fact that some people can't move across the world.

Obviously Europe is not at it's best atm but; what are the chances of a JAA FaTPL obtaining at the least a regional or cargo job in asia, carribean or the middle east?

There litterally are over a thousand airlines out there. Not to mention flight schools ect. Surely if you are flexible you will hit something; i'm talking about literally spending a month on the computer appling for everything and travelling to meet face to face when possible? Then following up regulary will all of them.

From my brief sales career I have learnt you don't get anywhere without following up possibly 3-4 times as the first No is a routine response. Has anyone actually done all this and still got nothing?

[MrMutra]

You cant compare like for like, you really should have stayed in sales. The odds are against you, because the deck is stacked in favour of those who are using the back door, or P2F.

There are jobs but whos getting them ? P2F, friend of a friend, best mate of the C Pilot or paying €30,000 under the table to get your job with a low cost airline and this includes LHS.

The industry doesnt care if you have flown MD11's around the world, not one bit, just as long as your current and have 500 hours on the aircraft type they want.

You need to pay pay pay... and there are enough rich kids out there who are paying just take a look at lion air and eagle jet. So join up pay your money and become a member of the P2F army.

[Jugs08]

What a load of rubbish...you have already sold yourself that story and conditioned yourself so you might aswell give up. Who said anything was it, who cares who long it takes...if you have to work another job to fund P2F finding something you want to do in your life that makes you happy is most important; don't assume all the P2F people are rich kids. They may have saved up for it; its justt another step in the process. Not everyone wants to fly a B737 or A320 for 40 years....seriously take your negative vibes and leave. Everything is possible is you have a dream and you keep pushing!!

[KAG]

There are more pilots wannabes than jobs available.

Any new pilot in the market is bad news for everybody, the ones already looking for jobs, and the new one looking for jobs.

Of course there are some job available, and some of you will get them, it doesn't change the fact that too many pilots are trained, too many pilots already pay cash commercial airlines in order to work and fly with paying passenger on board, and too many new CPL will never find a pilot job in their life.
We will always find many succesful stories, because they exist and will continue to exist, but they are more and more the exception, like if it was normal for somebody to learn a job and have the choice between pay to work or nothing, having a job being the exception!

Today any new CPL is bad news for the hiring market because they are not needed. This is a fact. Now everybody is free, and individually this is true that everything is possible...

Reality is that today, discussion is not where can I find a job? But the discussion look more like, if I find one, is that ok to pay for it?
http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/472739-more-p2f-misery.html

Something that wouldn't be even something we could imagine few years ago!

If today some people feel it is normal to pay to work, it gives a clue on how much the new pilot wannabes are needed and welcomed by our industry...
It looks like the mother is eating its own kids to me...

[power.r]

There might be over a thousand airlines out there, but there is not over 1000 jobs for us low hour pilots.

I would up and move in the morning if I could find a flying job on ANY a/c.

The jobs simply aren't there!

If they are pm them to me, because I have been looking for 18 months now!!

[truckflyer]

Reality is bleak - and it seems pay pay pay is the only way.

I was offered a job with a German company, if.... I could Pay my TR and only a 6 months contract!

I also would have to learn sufficient German to be able to do a tech interview and TR in German!

Now I do speak German, but not well enough to do a ATPL standard interview.

Still the main point is, offer to pay own TR with job is fine, but for a 6 month contract only? That is nuts!

[MIKECR]

If you have to pay £15000 for a J41 Type rating with a UK regional operator who are the only operator pretty much in the world unless you wish to go to south africa or the Middle East! then that says it all really. oh and only earn £20,000 p.a. if they take you on Full time

Crikey....the salaries at Eastern have gone up then!;)

[BigNumber]

There is no need to pay any more than £20k tops.

Frankly, the desperate low hour FATPL's will beg to pay hugely inflated TR's if they are going to get any contract at all.

I reckon Eastern could charge £25k for a TR and offer £16K contracts with no increments. Do you honestly think there would be no applicants?

Eastern are paying a very sensible market rate and deserve all our thanks for not taking proper advantage. They have some nice bases too.

[CookPassBabtridge]

Highest paid jobs in the UK 2011 | Money | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/nov/25/highest-paid-jobs-uk-2011)

Interesting to see the #4 position there. Perhaps a reminder that although the first job or two can pay stinking wages, and more and more there's a cost associated with getting in the door; the rewards are there once you're in and experienced.

Arguably you could say the barriers to entry (in terms of education, training and experience, not how much cash your parents have!) are lower for pilots than for all the other top 5 jobs.

Now if only there were any jobs out there...:ugh:

[Fullagas]

Here's an idea - don't pay for training! You're only helping management stuff their pockets.

If everyone would simply do that, the carriers would be forced to absorb the training costs. Paying for training hurts those who are employed already, as well as those following you. It sends the message to management that you don't value yourself, your skills, or your fellow pilots.

The world's airlines are playing us against each other. If you sell yourself and your fellow pilots short now, what will happen in 5 or 10 years when you're in a position to make another decision involving your career, one that will affect others?

Pilots need to stick together, stop making concessions, and bring back the unions!

[Gligg]

'what are the chances of a JAA FaTPL obtaining at the least a regional or cargo job in asia'

To give you an idea, I have around 2500TT, a few hundred multi turbine hours, am an expat living in Asia, and I too am on the lookout for a regional cargo job :}

There are jobs about in SE Asia, but a lot of Europeans are looking to escape their collapsing economies at the moment, and from what I have witnessed, they are turning up with suitcases of cash. SE Asian operators are increasingly adopting the P2F concept - jobs that were bonded even a year or two ago have been rebranded P2F in recent times.

If you have the cash, a P2F gig should be fairly straightforward to get down here. Working you way up the ol' fashioned way is a bit stiffer competition, and may take awhile, but like anything in life it depends on how bad you want it!

[Jugs08]

Times have changed the world has changed you can't compare standards in the industry with today. As world population grows competition in all industries is inevitable; what happens is that to make it you must work harder and TR + P2F is a reflection of this; you cant odds it.

Moaning about it won't change it or help you get to where you want to be.

What you have to ask yourself is why are some people successful and what did they do to get where they were.

Not just disregard it with they had cash, contacts ect. Yeah maybe they did but did they work for that cash and contacts for months,years and perhaps decades. The Problem is too many people expect the job of their dreams to come knocking; for which I blame the last Labour goverment but thats a different story. I have no experience in being paid to fly but I know that commuting to London to sit in an office for 10hrs will not satify anyone that truly wants to fly. Even if it takes all my money in the next 5-6 years; I DO NOT CARE.

WHY?

There are people all over the planet doing things they love for little financial benefit; why do they do it? Because they want to; you only live once, you will never be back. So if you want to spend your one shot at life in an office earning some decent bucks wishing you were somewhere else then carry on; and look back in 20years with your material achievements but regret.

'Most people in life do not fail because they aim too high and miss; they fail because they aim to low and hit'.

[corporate-pilot]

and also remember that there are decent jobs out there too! I got a job just over 2 years ago for a great company, I got paid well from day 1 and am now earning pretty good money, minimal stress, nice aircraft and the management are good too.

I know a few friends who feel the same about their job too and work for different companies. Generally though the happy people don't come on here and talk about it much, whereas the unhappy folks do, so you get a disproportionate representation of "happy v unhappy" I guess.

PS I can still find things to moan about though if I really try.

[tarmac12]

How is aiming low and hitting failing? Alot of people I have met in life like ordinary almost mundane stuff and don't seem to upset about the robot like jobs they have. Most have little stress and get all the weekends and public holidays off and no real overtime. The pay packets aren't huge but they don't chuck money around and live within means.

People fail because they aim far above their abilities and no one seems to want to pull them down a peg with a reality check. This "everyone gets a trophy" sh#t that is all the rage right now simply puts unrealistic expectations on young people who think they should get a medal just for turning up to a job interview.

The fact of the matter is alot of people on here ignored the warnings of no jobs in aviation and went ahead with spending bucket loads of cash on something that didn't have a firm job offer at the end. (they think that just cause they worked really hard for a fATPL then they should get a job for effort!)

News flash guys and girls, only the best performers get medals and most of you will never get on the podium. The sooner that gets through to most of you the better.

[smith]

Jugs

Can I have some of what you've been taking???:yuk:

[Flywiz]

Hi guys ... I just wanted to let you know that I've finally landed a job after 3 years . It's a really good package and the company expects you to pay for your type at a very reasonable cost . I want you guys to hang on there but Paz keep working l I worked for 3 yrs straight and saved up more then enough to pay the company l if any one wants any info do let me know . Plz hang in there and don't give up

[Flyboy380]

If you had a career in sales, go back to a career in sales. Aviation is no longer a long term career option. :{

[Ollie23]

I have been completely mislead and taken down a road where, at the present moment is a dead end.

Misled by whom exactly? You must have known how dire things were before handing over a penny for tarining.