2000 applications with GO

[salapilot]

Just got a standard letter from go stating they have 2000 applications which they are dealing with!!... What Bloody chance have we got when so many people are going for so few jobs.I know guys who have got into go because they know the right people(I suppose this go's for 99.99% of airlines).So the few jobs that are available I'm thinking these must be reserved for the "boys". Please someone tell me equal opps exsists in one of the airlines cos I may stand a chance then !! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Yeah well the advert asked for just a Licence. Not jet time, not multi time, not an MCC. Just a licence. Hence a tidal wave of mail bags through the door.

I'm sorry to say but its a rock and a hard place when you have no time and no experience in this industry. If its not job adverts requiring 500hrs Turbine it'll be standard letters saying we have 2000 applicants.

Its always been this way and always will.

Good luck,

WWW

[LYKA]

sorry

but life is like that , Aviation or other !

keep trying - your perseverance will pay off

[Just Another Number]

For info the IPA are listing 347 active members unemployed with 110 with less than 300 hours.
Has there been a thread here to assess the number of unemployed first timers?

[whats the vector victor]

Why do you suppose a Company like Go Fly place an advert like that? Why are they not being more specific with their requirements?
Just curious, but the guy who started this thread what was your flying experience?

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Well I think it is nice that a company is willing to consider people with just an ATPL and little else.Mind you I bet the people doing the initial sorting of the applications aren`t too gripped.

[salapilot]

My experience is that of a 509er 260 total time with 64 multi (kind of regreting it cos I'm sure the amount I spent I would have got 1000+ and probably been more attractive to the airlines if I had gone modular). I've been out 14 months and not even a whiff of an interview!!

[Hamrah]

I have to say that my personal experience is that it doesn't matter what the company put in their advert as experience requirements, people will apply anyway.

I also brought up this issue at a number of employment seminars, and pointed out the large number of low houred, recently licensed pilots seeking employment. My current estimate is in the region of 800.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I am becoming slightly concerned that there is a 'crunch' coming in the next 6 months as supply and demand fall more heavily out of synch.

There was a timeframe around late 1997 to late 1998 when demand for pilots picked up and people suddenly started getting jobs. Then the lag in training was extinguished by the increased numbers who started training as a result of what now looked like a buoyant hiring market. This increased supply slowed things down to a lower but still healthy recruitment stream which we have enjoyed to date.

With a freezing of sponsorships, some airlines entering difficulty and the looming economic downturn there *could* be the signs that recruitment is going to slow. Be advised that this will be very painful for a year or two as the colleges continue to pump out students who enrolled in the high times.

For someone thinking of making the big leaps in expenditure for flying training over and above the PPL the exams and the like I might soon be advising caution.

Its too early to call - just read the financial press to gauge the level of uncertainty about the next 12 months. But the worst time to enter the market is as it slows - its like a motorway pile-up and just as ugly.

Good luck,

WWW

[RVR800]

Its a bit like SOAPSTARS/POPSTARS isnt it!

The difference is the people in the queue
havent seen £50K go west...

Hamrahs post explains why the 1000hr
requirement is oft quoted in these adverts
and 100 Multi

...To get the numbers down

Just how do you reduce 800 pilots down to 20 pilots otherwise ?

Incidentally this jam yesterday argument doesnt wash as a few months ago Debonair went bust and AB with consequent job fall out

This game has always been awash with people at the bottom end of the food chain die to its popularity as a job - many get financially frozen out at the hours building stage. i.e. £10 per hour with huge debt
= No can do

If there is a recession then the number of people embarking on this 36 month JAA
approved spending spree will drop like a stone.

This method of communication will have a BIG impact on the decisions people take
They will take the marketing hype from the schools with a big pinch of salt.

[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: RVR800 ]

[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: RVR800 ]

[Oleo]

Salapilot, Go are looking for about 80 pilots and do take people at the low end of the hours spectrum. They have given a great many less experienced pilots their break into a decent jet job.

One of the main things they look for in the interview are the applicants' personal qualities: I think "bitter and twisted" might be one of the disqualifying characteristics.

[salapilot]

Oleo...Please don't confuse my message as being "bitter and twisted". If that's the way it comes across then i'm sorry. I was sounding off at the situation . Yes they may take low hour pilots, but can you honestly say that these pilots got the job on purely merit? I know of an FO at Go who failed exams so many times ,but happened to know the right people and hey presto he's flying 737's. I don't make out to be someone who is a top flyer but I really wish the Airlines would make it fair for everyone. Yes it doesn't help Flying Schools turning into sausage machine factories and they have to take a large portion of the blame selling false and unrealistic dreams. My concerns are (and i'll say it again) is that can we truly say the Airlines are applying equal opps..... sadly my experience is that they do not. If thats sounds bitter and twisted well i'm sorry thats not how i intend to sound.


salapilot

[Oleo]

Very experienced, type rated captains have not have offers extended to them because their personality was not a good match for the company.

Contacts may get you an interview but from there it is up to you. I wasn't asked if I had passed exams first pop. If you have the licence then one would expect you are capable of the functional part of the job. From there it basically comes down to whether they want to sit next to you for up to 12 hours a day.

As my now deceased maths teacher used to say "Life is unfair". And so it is: but tell me, do you really want life to always be fair? - to only get your due every time and no more, no less. To never get lucky, get a break, or get away with something?

Have a rethink of your perspective. Go are one of the few who will even consider you. Why not lambast those who don't even bother to reply to your C.V.. Keep plugging away, keep improving your marketability and keep networking for yourself.

Even the blind pig gets the acorn sometime. ;)

[salapilot]

Oleo....

thanks for you encouragement. I have done (and continue to do so )all the things you say. I have become the Marketing specialist as I have sent so many different and innovative cv's. I network like there's no tomorrow . I make it a routine everyday to at least ring 2 airlines . I speak to friends who have got jobs to get the insider information. I KNOW one day it will pay off and I will fly with the likes of you OLEO (and you will see that i'm not bitter and twisted !!!). I am a realist and know "Life is Unfair" .It doesn't mean that we have to accept it. I'm not saying the Airlines are deliberately doing this all I'm trying to get across is that the system as it stands is not a fair one.

[Oleo]

You are correct Grasshopper ;)

If you keep doing all the things you say (and manage it without being a pain in the butt - but then that can have it's persuasive advantages too), then what you seek shall come to pass.

Stickibility is the key to success. And keep flying, stay current anyhow, anyway.

Good luck.

[wysiwyg]

Sound advice

[no sponsor]

I agree.

Scala - I hope you find something soon. What has been the principle difference in your friends finding work, and yourself?

Have you considered becoming an instructor to build the hours - perhaps at weekends?

Oleo - Indeed, good advice to all wannabes.

[candle]

Apart from the thanks but no thanks letters, has anyone heard anything else? I got an application form but have heard nothing since.

[jimbob]

Same here. Got the application form but have heard nothing since. But on the other hand the letter stated that selections would start in September so i guess it's not to late yet.....

[scroggs]

Oleo's advice is very sensible stuff for any Wannabe to follow. As many of you know, I have been sounding cautionary notes (OK, bloody pessimistic!) about the job market for a month or three now, and I think that my crystal ball is in unusually good working order.
The people who are really between a rock and a hard place are those who are half-way through training. They can see the jobs diappearing, but are committed to finishing what they started. The uncertainty must be very worrying. For those of you that have your licences, keep plugging away; there are always some jobs out there. Right now, in fact, it's still quite a good jobs market, but I don't think it will be in 6 to 12 months time. Those amongst you just contemplating starting, think very carefully about it and make sure you have a fallback option.
As many of you will know, this advice applies equally to many fields of endeavour; those of you in the IT, technology and manufacturing fields are feeling the cold already. Aviation just catches it a few months later.

[FL245]

One of the skippers I work with has been called. I telephoned last week and told that there were firstly looking at people with commercial experience.

[Goforfun]

I agree with Oleo. Salapilot you are very bitter and twisted. Are you one of those people that believe just because you have a licence and massive debt you should have a job?

As you know most airline recruit on who they know. Lets face it- it reduces the risks of failure.

However! Once Pilots are on the pool for assesment it doesn't matter who they know- the candidate has to prove them self. If they dont come up to standard- they are turned down. Same for all airlines..

14 months and no sniff of an interview? Well perhaps it's time to go and have a long look in the mirror. Perhaps you'll see the reason why.

Go have recieved a wealth of CVs from people with lots of experience- from turboprops to FO's from traditional airlines on 737s.

Life is Unfair. As some one else said- there are loads of in experienced pilots/people looking for their first leap- yes it is hard.

Keep going- some thing will turn up eventually.
:rolleyes:

[Oleo]

Hey now GoForFun!... Salapilot just had a vent in a moment of frustration, he has repented ;) and all is consequently forgiven.

Chaps/chappesses, as many of you know there is often no rhyme or reason to whom gets "the call". There are a plethora of fine, qualified applicants and whomever is doing the selection will often, by human nature, take the path of least resistance so it will just be whomever then can get hold of on the day. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with you if you have been waiting a while. If you think that, then you are giving too much credence to what can often be a random process.

However it might pay to get some professional input into your CV just "to be sure to be sure" and as I said before keep current! You can make banana cake out of rotten bananas but a lapsed pilot quickly becomes unattractive, and this applies more with the less experience you have.

[Gazeem]

Okay,

so the recession is starting to put the brakes on expansion in the airline market.

-BUT_

Whatever happened to the huge pool of pilots that were meant to be just about to retire?

I remember lots of talk about BA losing loads of senior pilots through retirement and the great hoovering effect this would have through the aviation food chain.

Has this happened, is it still to happen, or was it just a sales pitch?

[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: Gazeem ]

[Yorkshire-Pud]

Can't help thinking you're being a bit harsh on Sala - Oleo. Perhaps the only difference between you and him is you have a job and he is merely waiting to get his. There is no doubt some good advice in your posts but having a job doesn't automatically qualify you to judge those that don't - I think it's fair to assume that most airlines seek the attributes you mention. Spending a lot of money and seeing no return despite working hard to secure something don't make you bitter and twisted - just normal

[salapilot]

My first post may have given the impression that I am bitter and twisted......trust me I'm not and go for fun please read the whole thread before making those judgements...

Oleo was the first to make the comment to me and now realises that I'm not B and T. Just because I have a licence I don't think I have a God given right to a Job.. far from it. Again Goforfun if you read my postings you will see that all I'm asking for is fair crack of that Harsh Whip. Oleo ,Scroggs and www have all given good advice and I would like to think I will learn from it...hopefully that's what the wannabe section is about and not to "slag" each other off !!!

I started the thread as result of opening my letter from Go . I wanted to air my frustrations .....that's all. Yes it does hurt when you have spent time and hard work and nothing is happening. This is a safe environment for people to voice their concerns ,so dont punish them for that !

Salapilot

[zoru]

I imagine that Go,having finally dropped their recruitment agency (Storm) need to gather an up dated data base of available pilot details, ahead of their potential hiring next year...however after the tragic events in the USA I would think that all bets are now off...we will be extremely lucky to avoid a world wide recession.

[ 13 September 2001: Message edited by: zoru ]

[birminghamgiraffe]

salapilot,
your situation reminds me of how I was in 94 when there were NO jobs about. What I underestimated was just how many current airline pilots are looking to move about.

I couldn't believe my first job would not involve Airbus or Boeing !!.A bit of advice:try and get an angle on a niche job to get you going. A relative of mine worked for BAe and managed to get a list of corporate operators at FAB, I contacting them all and showed keen and ultimately got a job on the Citation. A year later with 500 turbine hours and people were much keener to interview me !

The old boys bit will always persist: once you are in an airline I am certain you would recommend mates without a job to give them a hand.A recommendation from an existing crewmember will always carry weight !!

Don't despair, I almost lost my marbles with the constant round of CV flinging and cold calling when I was without a job, get an angle. Good luck