ATPL- PPL - CPL - FI(R)?

[tobster911]

Hi,
I was just wondering whether I could do my course with the end goal of becoming an instructor in the way mentioned above? I am 16 and will be finishing school in June. My instructor has said that it may be an idea not to go to sixth form, get good grades in GCSE (Which I'm already on track for), then study for my ATPL via Distance Learning, then get my PPL, then ratings and so on before CPL then finally FI(R), then, if I chose to become an Airline pilot after a while, would I just have to get a type rating on the specific aircraft?

Is this a feasable route, and can I start it at age 16?

Thanks

[Air Brake]

I think your instructor is an idiot to be suggesting this to you. Stay at school and get as qualified as you can, A-levels as a minimum!

Life can change in an instant! Say you become an instructor and then lose your medical Cat for any reason, what would you have to fall back on? some GCSEs?

Your 16, CPL at 18, I’m not sure what credibility you would have as an instructor. Stay at school, get a little more life experience then go for it!! :ok:

[BerksFlyer]

Definitely wouldn't recommend not doing A-levels. Leaving school with just GCSEs leaves you right at the very bottom of the pile. Have some patience. I had the same thoughts when I was your age. But believe me, you really change from 16-20. That's not to say you will no longer want to fly - but you see the bigger picture more.

But no, you would also require an instrument rating and an MCC.

[3bars]

Also not physically possible.... you must have passed PPL before commencing APTL ground school.

Fully agree with the previous posters opinion of your instructor:E

[Jerry Lee]

Get A Levels in Math, Physics, Geography and another subject you'd like to study.
You're 16, so you can already start your training towards PPL. But to work in a serious company a day, you need at least an university entrance level certification, so A Levels is mandatory for you. Keep studying, because the knowledge you will learn will be useful when you'll be studying ATPL theory.

Unfortunately, at my school (in Italy) I don't study Physics, nor Trigonometry. It will be a little bit harder for me, but nothing insurmountable:)

[tobster911]

Okay, thanks for that. Now, assuming I stay on to sixth form, could I also study for my ATPL via a distance learning programme? Not saying this is what i'd do, but... can i sign up for a distance learning course at 16?
Thanks

[Genghis the Engineer]

You need your PPL before you can sign up for the ATPL groundschool programme.

G

[3bars]

You need your PPL before you can sign up for the ATPL groundschool programme

Apparently he or she only listens to captains advise!!!!!:E

[Jerry Lee]

No, you can't, but you can study for the PPL if you want to do something.

[bwfly88]

You need your PPL before you can sign up for the ATPL groundschool programme

That sounds logical to me but for the OAA integrated guys the first thing they do is the 6 month phase of ATPL theory before they even touch an aircraft?

[MIKECR]

Integrated courses are different, you dont need a PPL before starting ATPL theory. How else can you go from 'zero to hero'!

Modular students require an ICAO recognised PPL in order to start ATPL theory.

Thats the regs.

[The500man]

I agree you should stay in school. Make the most of it while it's still free! Get your PPL done over the summer holidays if you can and in the mean time try to get a part-time job to pay for it. Don't start ATPL groundschool until you have some idea how you are going to pay for your CPL and ME/IR. You only get three years from your last ATPL exam to get all of that done, and the ME/IR is not cheap! You also want an FI rating? From what I can tell becoming a flight instructor is a very expensive route to earning very little. I'm not trying to put you off, but you must realise you will need a decent paying job or financial help to even get that far. If you are relying on getting a decent paying job you may struggle with only GCSE's. Best of luck though! :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

That sounds logical to me but for the OAA integrated guys the first thing they do is the 6 month phase of ATPL theory before they even touch an aircraft?

They also spend twice as much money as a modular student, and are largely unemployable anywhere but a big airline.

There's a sticky on the subject at the top of the page.

G

[tobster911]

Thanks for all your replies. I mistyped my title, it was supposed to be PPL-ATPL etc etc, but, anyway. In my GCSE's, I am on course for some fairly good results, i.e A*'s and A's. however, I have an English Literature (poetry) exam coming up next week, and I know I'm going to do Awfully. I am predicted a C at best, probably a D, because, unfortunately, I despise the subject. If I do well in my other GCSE's, like science and Maths etc, will this D mean I have a reduced chance of becoming a Commercial pilot or FI, as I really hope it doesn't, and i'm worrying that it will mess up my streak and possible employees will look at it and say no.
Thanks

[mad_jock]

Go and have a search on here for Airleague and other such scholorships.

Also as well go and have a shot of gliding, its cheaper than powered and to be honest the standard of instructing is higher as well. The hand foot skills will stand you in good stead when you continue onto powered, apart from anything else its bloody good fun.

[tobster911]

Yea, thanks, I do gliding occasionally at the local GC, but, this being England, and on the coast with rubbish weather, there aren't that many gliding opportunities
Thanks anyway

[mad_jock]

there is no rush to be honest at your age.

Actually there is the first step which does involve a trip to london and paying out 300 quid.

Your best to get a class one medical done to make sure you are not setting your whole life up for a goal which isn't possible.

Then work towards getting some form of qulification which allows you to save up for the commercial training. Realistically you are going to need about 50 thousand pounds worth of training to get to the point you can even apply for jobs.

The gliding has another bonus which is that you can tug for gliders which helps build hours cheaply so its good to get in with the a club with an aircraft.

[tobster911]

Yea, we have a Piper Super Cub at the moment, so, after I pass my PPL (hopefully), I'll try to get a taildragger and Towing license, then build my hours up cheaply and freely :)

[mad_jock]

A very nice aircraft I might add.

Now go talk to your parents and get the class one out of the way.

A good job to go for in my experence of working with pilots who payed there way through is optician or pharmisist (spell? the ones that work at boots giving out prescriptions) both give quite high starting salaries and also let you work as a locum during training at quite reasonable rates of pay. And even when on the line flying you can do a few days to help the wallet out if required.

[tobster911]

Thanks. It's about 50 years old :) very loud. Thanks for the input, appreciated

[mad_jock]

You will just have to wait a few years to find out how much fun loud 50 year olds can be.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thanks for all your replies. I mistyped my title, it was supposed to be PPL-ATPL etc etc, but, anyway. In my GCSE's, I am on course for some fairly good results, i.e A*'s and A's. however, I have an English Literature (poetry) exam coming up next week, and I know I'm going to do Awfully. I am predicted a C at best, probably a D, because, unfortunately, I despise the subject. If I do well in my other GCSE's, like science and Maths etc, will this D mean I have a reduced chance of becoming a Commercial pilot or FI, as I really hope it doesn't, and i'm worrying that it will mess up my streak and possible employees will look at it and say no.
Thanks

My grade D O'level in religious studies has been of no handicap through my career to date, any more than I'd expect a grade D in poetry GCSE will be to you*.

Push hard for good grades in Maths, English language, and all three sciences (but especially physics), and so long as you have a good set, you should be fine. The occasional failure in less important subjects should do you no real harm (although clearly a good set of GCSE and then A level results will help you stand out).

I agree with everybody else who thinks that you should do A levels. One further pointer however - for goodness sake get somebody to teach you how to use an apostrophe properly before any future English exams of any description :{

G


*I confess, I often read poetry for pleasure (currently working through an anthology of Scottish island poetry in a mixture of English and Scots) - but as an academic subject it's horrible. I doubt very much that many, if any, of the world's great poets studied it as an academic subject. Do your best, but really really, nobody in the real world will give a damn how well you did in that exam, certainly not once you have your A levels as well.

[tobster911]

Sorry, please point out the apostrophe mistake, I genuinely want to know where I made it wrong. Thanks. Laughed very much at Mad Jocks last reply :)
Just wondering what you think I should take at A-Level. I am looking at Maths, Physics, Geography, and possibly Chemistry, but, not quite sure. If I do chem at AS level, I'll probably drop it at A-Level, but, please tell me what you'd recommend
Thanks

[Genghis the Engineer]

A-levels: Maths, Physics, and any other stuff you'll enjoy and get good grades in.

Use of the apostrophe! It has two purposes - the possessive, and where a word is abbreviated.

So: possessive:

Owners not ending with S: Steve's boat, George's aeroplane, the aeroplane's wing.

Owners ending with S (often plurals): the clubs' members, Dennis' jumper

A distinction here:

the club's members (the members of one club)
the clubs' members (the members of several clubs)


And where a word is abbreviated:

that's (that is), it's (it is), 'though (although)

(incidentally, an exception - "its" means "belonging to it", and you don't use an apostrophe there. Just learn it!)


But you don't, ever, under any circumstances, use an apostrophe to denote plural: so "GCSE's" means "belonging to the GCSE", and the correct plural of GCSE is GCSEs"

Unless, possibly, you are running a market stall! Hence this mis-use often being referred to as the "Grocer's apostrophe" (or possibly the "Grocers' apostrophe", since most of them seem to do it.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00798/grocers-apostrophe_798439c.jpg

Sadly, many of your teachers probably don't know this either, since they went to school in the 1970s and 1980s like me, when teaching grammar and punctuation had become unfashionable. I was lucky enough to have decent English beaten into me by a succession of old fashioned senior engineers in the first half dozen years of my working life.

G

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thanks. It's about 50 years old :) very loud. Thanks for the input, appreciated

Get a really good headset, ideally an ANR one. You'll thank yourself for that investment for the rest of your life if you are going to do a lot of flying in a noisy cockpit.

G

['India-Mike]

Pilots are a fabulous lot. Whether they're got PhDs in aerodynamics or left school with little in the way of qualifications, you'll find that we can all talk on near-equal terms. Do what you're good at; or like. Not what'll get you meaningless A grades.

And M-J is one of the most entertaining but informative posters on Pprune. Once you've appropriately filtered his posts you'll find he talks a lot of sense.

[tobster911]

Thank you all so, so much for the help. Thanks G for the apostrophe lesson, I may well get better grades in my GCSEs now. And thank you to every one else who contributed.
One last question though, Genghis The Engineer, are you the one, or one of a group of people, who started PPRune? Just seems like you have many posts, and, whenever I have a question, you are normally the one who comes out with one of the most informative answers, although everyone does help in their own way

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thank you all so, so much for the help. Thanks G for the apostrophe lesson, I may well get better grades in my GCSEs now. And thank you to every one else who contributed.
One last question though, Genghis The Engineer, are you the one, or one of a group of people, who started PPRune? Just seems like you have many posts, and, whenever I have a question, you are normally the one who comes out with one of the most informative answers, although everyone does help in their own way

No, I've been a member of Pprune for a long time (around 14 years I think) but the board is a few years older than that.

I've had the privilege of a very good professional education; I'm also a compulsive over-communicator, and an aviation obsessive. By posting a lot on Pprune, I avoid my friends and family being driven up the wall ! Hopefully I also do a little good.

Pprune was originally created by Danny Fyne (who currently posts as Danny2) and Robin Lloyd (who currently posts as Pprune Towers) - both great guys, and by all accounts very good pilots as well. But, they're not me.

G

[tobster911]

Okay, thanks, and, are you a pilot, or just have very extensive knowledge of the subject? if so, commercial? who do you fly with etc. You seem far too well informed to just be the average joe

['India-Mike]

He'll be far too modest so allow me. Graduate aeronautical engineer. PhD aeronautics (very good too; I should know I was his external examiner); Boscombe Down flight test engineer; CPL and instructor; manager of a major national aircraft asset; aircraft owner; etc, etc, etc. I've embarassed him enough now....:E

To be honest you could cherry-pick any number of Ppruners and write a cv that's the same, only different. You'll figure out who to listen to yourself:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

Something along the lines of what my good friend I-M just said. I've basically done nothing but play with aeroplanes for the last 22 years. Even better, I get paid for most of it. I recommend the lifestyle.

I don't think that there are that many people in the UK with both PhDs in aeronautics and professional flying licences - maybe half a dozen. Although since he's embarrassed me, I'll point out that India-Mike is one of the others, as well as being one of the UK's leading researchers in rotary wing flight mechanics :}

Now, what the heck were we actually talking about?

G

[tobster911]

Wow! That's extremely impressive. This Sorry, I keep thinking of more questions, this isn't really related to previous posts, and, it probably doesn't belong in this section, but, it's just a quick one.
I need a class one medical, and, for some reason, Needles scare the living bejeezus out of me. I was wondering what kind of injections and tests etc they needed to do on me. Blood tests aren't too bad, but, I read somewhere about a radiation injection with a huge syringe. Now, that's not going to put me off doing what I want to do, I was just wondering if someone could explain so I know what to expect.
Thanks

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just a blood test, doesn't hurt much.

Look the other way, and grip something hard! It's worked for me for years - I hate needles.

G

[mad_jock]

Its not the needle that you need to worry about, its the finger up the bum.

[Roff]

^^^^^^^^
Just 1 finger? Lucky you

[average-punter]

I do maths, physics, geography and Spanish a-levels. Physics is difficult at a-level. It went from being my easiest subject at GCSE to the hardest at a-level. I like maths a lot, lots of logic to it and I genuinely find it interesting.

I've done the class 1, it's not too bad and no finger up the bum thank god!!! and only a pin prick for me. No huge needles or anything. I did mine in June so I doubt it will have changed since then. For what it's worth I hated poetry aswell and somehow managed to pull a B out the bag at GCSE after Ds and Es in the mocks. It can be done :ok: