Lost comm debate (GA IFR)

[upnaway]

Hi all, my first post here, I'm a fairly new IFR pilot without much real-world experience. Here's the situation: flying from KYIP (Detroit area) to KCGF (Cleveland area) around the lake, and would like to know how to correctly file and plan for lost comm for an ILS 24 approach. Some background: in multiple places I've read that it's advisable to file a route ending with the IAF for a likely approach, specifically to advise ATC of what I'm likely to do in case of lost comm. ILS 24 approach at KCGF does not have any kind of course reversal (PT or hold) for traffic approaching from the west. The approach plate does not explicitly prohibit eastbound traffic from using ILS 24 either. See the problem here? There's only one IAF at WEIDS and it's more than a 180 turn to head inbound! So, in case of lost comm, options are:

1) Don't file to WEIDS, if lost comm head to the airport, stay at MSA, hope to make visual contact and descent/land visually. If still IMC, fly outbound towards the IAF and execute an improvise a course reversal.

2) Include a round-about routing CXR-ZITER-WEIDS in the route which sets me up nicely to reach the IAF without sharp turns, but utterly confuses anyone looking at it not thinking along the same lines I am.

Which option is expected / recommended by ATC? This is the first time I've run into an ILS with only one IAF and no course reveral at all.

Thanks!

[galaxy flyer]

Interesting setup. First, nothing in the AIM requires filing over an IAF, however good a practice it might be. It was US Mil practice to do so, in fact, the book directed just that in the past.

That said, only the runway 24 has approaches that can be flown non-radar, which NORDO, you are. You certainly could file over WEIDS just to sure and ATC won't mind, they'll vector to the approach in use. If you didn't, ATC would have to expect you to fly over CXR and WEIDS to join one of the approaches.

GF

[Big Pistons Forever]

There is no excuse to be lost comm anymore. Get a list of center direct dial phone numbers. If you are flying a GA airplane below 10,000 anywhere east of the Rockies you will always be in cell phone range.

[Dufo]

Try this answer on an IFR proficiency check, Big Pistons Forever :E

[604guy]

below 10,000 anywhere east of the Rockies you will always be in cell phone range.

The original poster was presenting a scenario in US airspace so perhaps that is what you are refering to....but in Canada, that certainly is not the case!

As for lost comm, the reality from every controller I have ever spoken to is once "lost comm" is realized by ATC, they are going to end up sterilizing all airspace at the destination aerodrome (once you're anywhere close) until you're on the ground regardless of what might have been filed in a flight plan.

[upnaway]

OK guys, thanks for the info. I think if I file to CXR it should be obvious what my intentions would be in case of lost comm. It's a good reference for the future. For what it's worth, regarding the cell phone comment, coverage ranges between excellent and non-existent enroute depending on the carrier and phone (I've driven this route by car, so I know). Some phones (like mine) don't work at all period if they see multiple towers. Thanks for all the feedback.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Try this answer on an IFR proficiency check, Big Pistons Forever :E

I did and showed him the speed dial number on my phone. His response was "good enough for me" and we moved on to the next exercise.

I fly a lot in the airspace surrounding Vancouver. If you had a true lost comm and YVR was your destination the air traffic havoc you would cause by ATC having to protect all the arrival airspace would ripple all the way to Toronto. The fantasy make believe world of flight training IFR has almost no relation to how IFR is actually flown in the real world. Lost Comm is a perfect example as you say lost comm to the average fresh IFR graduate and they will immediately launch into a big diatribe on routes altitudes, hold until flight planned approach time blah blah blah.

Almost none of them actually seem to be taught practical actions like cancelling the squelch to see if the volume got turned downed inadvertently, looking for the transmit icon on the radio, trying the other radio and the handheld mic, or trying to transmit on one radio and receive on the other. There is also invariably no thought to the fact that the lost comm might be the first indication of a much bigger problem, namely a failing electrical system.

As an aside if your electrics are failing the first piece of avionics to die will be the transponder. If ATC says you have suddenly unexpectedly dropped off the scope, it is a really good idea to immediately check the health of the charging system.

[Cows getting bigger]

Actions on lost comm -

Dig out the intercept procedures card. :cool: