Rygtet vil vide....

[Payscale]

....at der er en underskriftsindsamling på gang i SAS Airline, for at fortælle firmaet at man ikke ønsker Braatens piloter på senioritetslisten (andre steder end der hvor der er plads...i bunden). Har DU set den? :D

[Vmu]

Det går også et rykte om at ny konsernlovgivning i EU/EØS sier at ved oppkjøp skal all ansennitet hos de som blir oppkjøpt beholdes. Noen som kan bekrefte/avkrefte? Og i så fall; er det "oppsigelses-ansennitet" eller er det senioritet i luftfartsbetydning?

[Laminar]

It is correct!

Swedish law ( LAS, lagen om anställningsskydd ) regulates the question of seniority as does the norwegian ( AML arbeidsmiljöloven ). The principle of continuity it is called in Norway.

[Payscale]

Det er jeg da ked af at høre...for hvis det et tilfældet, at BU har lovlig ret til et sammenfletning af senioritetslister, så er vi på vej mod svære tider. Ingen SAS pilot vil finde sig i at rykke ned på listen og kysser en evt. langruterplads farvel pga den skal gå til en BU pilot! BUUUUUUUUUUUUUH :mad:

[Ace MCcoy]

Payscale, ja jeg har set den.

Laminar, so what do those two laws say exactly, and do they apply in a cross border buyout?
Also, when you find time, would you answer my question on the other thread about exactly what those IFALPA that you keep mentioning recommendations call for.

Today the Danish union said in writing to us, that they on the 24 oct. had a meeting with boos no. 2 Marie Ehrlng in SAS, and the boss of flight ops, and were assured that there are no plans at all to integrate BU in SAS. Seperate companies, seperate organisations, seperate brands, etc. but that they will reep the synergy rewards only.

Also it says, that the unions clear attitude is, that this deal under no circumstances may put any SAS pilot in a less attractive position, jobsecurity and careeropportunity wise.

Whatever that means, time will tell!

[KADS]

Ace,
I'm very glad to hear that. That is good news indeed!

[birdsong]

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Flare armed]

Helt ærligt - hvad med at vise lidt medmenneskelighed og vise Braathens piloter velkommen på listerne, hvor de hører hjemme. Og ikke tænke på, at der nu nok går et år mere før jeg bliver kaptajn. Typisk arrogance i branchen... Kunne lære meget fra resten af samfundet(læs: uden for osteklokken), hvor man ikke lige sætter en højt uddannet, nyansat ingeniør nederst på alle lister. Nej, her værdsætter man mandens erfaring og giver ham det han er værd i løn og det er sgu da ikke begynderløn som en nyuddannet ....vel ? Mon ikke en pilot i BU med 15 års erfaring, er mere fagligt kvalificeret end styrmand med to år i SAS ?

Med fare for at blive sablet ned af styrmænd i SAS..

Ha det
Flare armed

[o. zahl]

BU PILOTS ARE NOT SK PILOTS ENEMY!!
1. BU pilots like their present job and the people they work with. They don't want a change.
2. BU pilots don't want to take senority from SK pilots in any way. BU pilots will have to give. BU pilots agree on this. SK pilots should therefore relax.
3. BU captains should keep their seat.
4. BU pilots would provide extra job security for present new SK pilots, and a stronger/ bigger SAS.
5. By surviving and gaining better future job security, BU pilots would be happy.
That's all BU pilots want.
6. BU pilots agree on that there will be no "Linjefly" again. If unions find that merging lists is best, then no SK pilot will suffer.
7. BU pilots should get some respect. They are down and bleeding! Stop false rumors about BU pilots and their opinions. BU pilots has fought well for over 50 years.
8. SK pilots should spend their energy on how BU pilots can be used, to avoid "cheaper" labor.
9. Having a seperate BU will not be an advantage for SK pilots in the long term.
10. Many SK pilots have made offensive statements here. BU pilots understand the fear, and therefore show the other chin.

:)

[LimaNovember]

Flare armed,

Well said, but I am afraid you are not the most popular person among the pilot union members in SAS. Is it not sad that within aviation, years of experience does not have any impact when you want to change employer (not that I think the BRA pilots want to change employer)unless you navigate yourself in the direction of those companies with a not so narrow minded union philosophy. It could well be that one day SAS pilots will be in need of support and understanding from their colleauges around the world. Now is the time to play your cards well ;)

[Ace MCcoy]

Flare armed,

Apart from one guy a long time ago, I don´t see that any SAS pilot has suggested what you say we have suggested. And that goes for Lima November as well.

I agree with Mach 3 in everything. (Except maybe para. 10 )

May I, once again, suggest a solution ala the one that was implemented may ´97, the socalled "kombiliste" deal between SAS and SC.

[Payscale]

Oh yes, certainly you may surgest anything you like...make up lists of what we should do any how to react, BUT, if you are not ON the list and being the guy who actually is being shafted, then your opinion doesn't really matter.

I'd love to give advice on how to manage the company you work for, BUT it carries no weight since I'm not affected by it.

There is plent space on the SAS list...infact it unlimited space after number 2700, and anyone is welcome. Can say we aren't a friendly bunch of guyes here in SAS....

Obviously being the former flagcarrier for our countries we do take a lot of flak. Thats OK. We are used to it. If you would care to mention what company you work for when you trash mine, I could at least been the courtesy to point out the shortcommings of yours. ;)

[Ace MCcoy]

Payscale,

That must have been for me? ouchhhhhh!
Look, I may be a lousy communicator, but you´ve completely misunderstood my post. If it was THAT misunderstandable, I´ll try to be more clear in the future. Earlier you´ve told everybody to relax, now it´s your turn.

I AM on the g**dam*ed list, and depending on how they would do it, I could be shafted too.

But do you know what I meant when I suggested the "kombilist" model?? I´m sure you know that there are SC pilots together wit SAS pilots on a list, but should I explain in detail why, I think that it would be a solution that can be used in a SAS/BU deal??

:) Rgds Ace

[Payscale]

ACE, my friend, back in 1993 I was shafted 230 numbers down the list, due to the LIN deal. Its probably my fear of seeing the whole thing repeating itself. I was fired in 1991, due to being under training at Flight Academy and therefore not the lucky owner of a senoritynumber. Some time thereafter LIN, bless their hearts, were placed on the list. When SAS called me back 6 years later, some 230 guyes were between me and the guyes in the class that started just before me. So excuse me for reacting strongly to this subject.

A newletter came out yesterday from management, explaining that SK and BU will be seperate companies.

[Ace MCcoy]

Payscale,

Thats allright. I see we´re in the same boat then. I understand you reactions on this subject, I just couldn´t see why you reacted to my post that way..because you and I agree.
How about:
*Seat protection for BU pilots on BU aircraft,(that would match well with the letter of yesterday, that SAS and BU are to be kept seperate)
*Same salary and pension
*BU pilots to be placed on the kombilist with ref. to date of overtaking. So if a deal is struck in january, they´ll all be placed in the bottom of schoolyear 2001/2002. BU pilots start to earn seniority as from that day. Just like SC pilots did in may ´97.

This way, no BU pilot will lose anything that he/she has today. But they´ll start to earn seniority in SAS like everybody else.
Their pay will go up as compared with today, chances of flying new equipment and routes in the future is there. They don´t have that today.

Also no SAS pilot will lose anything. Not a single place on the seniority list.
SAS pilots will on the other hand gain the security in knowing that, with BU pilots on our list, BU will not be used as a "lowercost" alternative against us.......as Air Bothnia is today
:mad: :mad:

[ 03 November 2001: Message edited by: Ace McCoy ]

[Payscale]

Hej Ace,
Så faldt tiøren for mig...pling! Vi er totalt enige! :D

[Ace MCcoy]

:) :D

[Ramrise]

Ace og Payscale,

Ideen med en kombiliste lyder som den bedste indtil nu, HVIS nu at listerne skal integreres. Personligt er jeg ikke sikker på hvad som vil være det bedste, men jeg hælder nok til at vi en dag skal være på samme liste. På den måde har vi en eller anden form for "kontrol" med de her pilotjobs. Hvis BU kører videre seperat kan de jo bruges til hvad som helst. Jeg er iøvrigt helt enig med DPF, vi skal ikke sættes ringere fordi vi evt. køber en konkurrent.

De bedste hilsener

:) :) :)

[vmommo]

DOH = Date of hire is my vote.
Guys you should all think long term. Mergers are always painful. Some lose, some win and some will whine forever! DOH combined with new employee numbers will create the least amount of bad blood long term.

After all SAS is the highest paying and most prestigious flying job in the world.....but BU still has the best pilots, and I regretfully work for neither. What a Charlie Foxtrot!

A second option that I also would approve of, would be for the Norwegian government to use a small amount of their oil money and buy the entire SAS and then fire all the Swedish pilots!

[Nick Figaretto]

:D :D :D

[zeroG]

Så drenger og drenginner. Her finner man meningers mot om det meste, og så er vel også meningen med dette forum.
SAS har ennå ikke kjøpt Braathens, og DERSOM det skjer, vil en evt. sammenslåing av felles lister ligge langt frem i tid.
DERSOM dette skulle være nødvendig, er en slik sak allerede regulert av " Lov Om Arbeidervern Og Arbeidsmiljø" (Arbeidsmiljøloven). Kap. XIIA : "Arbeidstakernes rettigheter ved virksomhetsoverdragelse."
En slik sak vil følges opp av det statlige Arbeidstilsynet.
Arbeidsgiver som ikke følger bestemmelser i Arbeidsmiljøloven straffes med bøter - fengsel eller begge deler. (maks 2 års fengsel). Fly safe.

[Payscale]

Vmoooooommmomommmmooommmomomo....Øhh!

Do I sense some bottled up hostility here?

Why only fire the swedish pilots? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Payscale]

Kanon ide!
Som Vmooomoo siger "my vote is DOH"....og senere "I don't work for either company" hmm, hvor mon er det lige du vil stemmen??

[Tweet Driver]

JA, la oss få DOH fra når man startet sin flykarriere. (Skal vi si graduation date)

MAO kan man få byttet ut sin ene stripe med fire.

I like it a lot.

[KADS]

Hmm, now this is becoming very interesting. Being in a similar position to the one Payscale was in some time ago (ie I got a letter 3 days prior to I was about to start with SAS, saying my course is now cancelled), I really like the sound of that DOH theory.
How about this for fairness then:
In '98 I was hired by '(Braathens) Malmo Aviation' and subsequently made redundant due to Braathens mismanagement. (Where was the merger of seniority lists back then? :D )
Now I can forsee a worst case scenario with list-merging, no new SAS recruitment for many years to come, but eventually when I do get hired by SAS again, I will be able to claim DOH in Braathens Malmo Aviation, ie by then, probably a DOH dating 10 years back. Now this is fantastic! I am all for bringing old DOH with you to a new company!! Haha!
Seriously, whatever happened to Braathens remaining a separate entity? I mean, now SAS is taking a majority stake in Spanair, or so I've heard. Do we now merge seniority lists there too???

Best o'luck to all of us!!! :)