NVG and neck pain

[AvMed.IN]

Studies suggest that helicopter pilots using NVG may suffer from pain in the neck (http://www.avmed.in/2012/01/nvg-pain-in-the-neck/).

Do those in this forum using NVG agree?

[obnoxio f*ckwit]

About 3 and a half years since I last strapped on a pair of NVG, wear only a headset now, I still get neck pain and stiffness periodically, and it seems to be getting worse. From approximately 400 hrs NVG.

[SARREMF]

My Doc is convinced that the pro-lapse in my neck was caused by NVG during my military career. However, not being the claiming type I just live with it! I certainly would strap them on all over again as flying without them would have been just plain silly and probably led to something more serious like a fatal case of death! That's humour by the way! So, does it hurt, yep, can I manage it, most of the time, would I use NVG again? Yep, in a heart beat. Would be nice for something less bulky to come on the market .... And I doubt it's many years away. The cost of progress me thinks. I retained my 900g counter lead weight as a souvenir!

[Tourist]

Mine got better when I stopped using the stupid counterweight!

The counterweights only work if you have your head nicely balanced on your neck, for example standing up, and not if you are not in the standard helicopter pilot posture, ie bending forward.

Otherwise they just add to the neck strain.

[jayteeto]

I got eye strain, but never neck pain. 400hr+ on NVG.

[BK_Driver]

Part of the problem is the helmet/goggle system. We had a number of pilots in our company starting to complain about neck pain when using the Alpha Eagle helmet (the pilots had been regularly flying on NVG's for a few years).
A couple of years ago we switched to Gallet helmets and most of the neck pain complaints stopped. I noticed a difference myself. The goggles/helmet feels much more balanced with the Gallet, therefore its less fatiguing to wear (and no, I don't work for Gallet or a Gallet supplier! :) ).

Cheers.

[mfriskel]

I have 1200 hours of NVG over the past 32 years. A few hours with full-face PVS-5s, 500+ hours with cut-away PVS-5s, both wearing the counter weight. The rest is with ANVIS configured NVG without the counter weight. I have not had any neck pain or neck problems associated with the NVG.

[[email protected]]

Yes Gallet LH250 works for me - no issues.

[Silvrado17]

900+ hrs Anvis 6/9's.

After longer NVG flights (3-6 hrs) will have a "tightness" between my upper shoulder blades. Usually get my wife to give me a big bear hug squeeze while slightly lifting me up which pops about 4 vertebrae in my upper back. Problem solved. Ready for another NVG flight...

Not sure what I'll do when she can't lift me anymore :confused:

[SASless]

Perhaps the greater worry is what will you do when you can no longer lift her up!:E

[Jet Ranger]

@Bhl ... and thats why we bought Gallet LH350:}

[ShyTorque]

Yes, I first flew with night vision goggles in 1979 (actually Passive Night Goggles, PNGs back then). I last flew using NVGs some dozen years ago after a few hundred hours of it and I suffer constant neck pain these days, sometimes worse than others.

Having suffered a major spinal issue about seven years ago, I was sent to a specialist surgeon. He looked at the X-rays and MRI scan results and told me my upper spine is basically a mess (so is the lower spine, different problem). Actually, he used a far less polite term than "a mess".

He told me the damage couldn't safely be operated on, nor could he give me a good chance of success if he did. I was told to give up all contact sports, stop running, stop motorcycling etc, etc. and definitely not to fly using NVGs.

So I have to live with it, too. :\

[Gomer Pylot]

There is no way you can put that much weight on your head, far from the CG, and not expect some pain. Add up the weight of the helmet, the googles, and the counterweights, and you get much more mass than should be on your head. Get the rotor tracking a little out, thus some vibration going, and it can get bad. Unfortunately, I know of no good way to reduce the weight, nor the size, of the goggles. Just reducing the size, and thus the arm of the weight, would be a good start. If I could do that, I could become a rich man. But I can't, and I'm not, and won't be.

[Jet Ranger]

Maybe to put some plastic holder around the neck, something like in Formula 1 ... I dont know if that could be usefull / possible in helicopter?

[before landing check list]

A long time ago, far far away we used a suction cup to the green house then surgical tubing to hold the PVS5's up. Then we cut away the sides of the housing so you could look underneath at the instruments. That was a big improvement over focusing one lens to read your chart. At the time we thought were were so advanced.

[fly4cash-ride4fun]

I was US Army and about 600 NVG hours when my neck went. Herniated disk in my C5. I was in Germany and was sent to a specialized Clinic who did a wonderful job and actually replaced the disk. Doc said if I was in the US I would have gotten the vertabrae fused, which would limit mobility. With the disk replacement I have never had any trouble. VA gave me partial disability upon retirement. I am flying now and using NVG's and have never had a hint of neck pain since.

[hueyracer]

700 hours NVG now....no problems at all...

The secret seems to be "staying fit"-working out, train (and stretch!) your muscles.....

(Sure this doesn´t work for all of you out there...)

[ShyTorque]

Huey, I was fine at your age, too, but do give us a progress report in another twenty years... ;)

[SASless]

The only bad thing about "Youth" is it is wasted on the Young!:rolleyes:

[hueyracer]

Not sure if you can compare it, at all...

The googles used today seem to be much lighter than the "old fashioned" Gen1´s....

Has anyone ever compared the available models (i.e. weight, balance etc.)?

[mfriskel]

Some folks on here have gone thru AN/PVS-5 full face goggles, AN/PVS-5 cut-away goggles (I remember at least 3 mounting systems for these), AN/PVS-5 COBB mount = each version got a little lighter and more user friendly.
The original ANVIS were lighter yet and much better visual acuity. Some folks were using Litton 909s about the time the Army decided on their original ANVIS purchase. From the original ANVIS 6 to todays standard has lost very little weight, but the acuity and filtering has been greatly improved. We have also seen trys at different color portrayed to the eye, brown, yellow, red. ect.... Now you can add weight back to the NVG with clip-on HUD, clip-on compass ect...
Current NVG are not quite 1/2 the weight of the original AN/PVS-5, but they are not far off. Add to the original AN/PVS-5 a counterweight of nearly a pound and a half that you have to use to keep your helmet sitting steady. I have never had to use a counterweight on the ANVIS, so they are easily two to 2.5 pounds lighter than a PVS-5 set-up.

[Canadian Rotorhead]

Night-vision goggles causing neck problems in military pilots | News | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/05/night-vision-goggles-causing-neck-problems-in-military-pilots/)

They are the embodiment of a modern, high-tech military and a fixture in Hollywood action movies, but night-vision goggles can literally be a pain in the neck, new Canadian research seems to confirm. A recent study found that most of the Canadian Forces helicopter pilots surveyed suffer from sore necks, and previous research lays much of the blame on the bulky, image-intensifying goggles worn on after-dark missions.

The effects can be debilitating for some, said Patrick Neary, a kinesiology professor at the University of Regina who has led much of the Canadian research. The hazard has been identified in other countries, too, with some pilots actually grounded because of the cervical strain.

“Talking to some individuals, I know they have problems sleeping because of this,” he said in interview Thursday.

Night-vision goggles, which amplify available light thousands of times and display images in green on built-in screens, have become standard issue throughout the armed forces, used by infantry soldiers for low-light operations as well as air force personnel. They contribute to a total weight with the helicopter pilots’ helmet of about 3.6 kilograms, said Prof. Neary.

The problems seem to come when crew move their heads to view the in-flight computer, which sits below shoulder level.

Dean Black, a retired lieutenant colonel in the air force and former CH-146 Griffon helicopter pilot, said Thursday the goggles came into use in the 1990s and are now considered essential.

“They are not only indispensable to air crew, but to people on the ground who depend on the ability of the helicopters to come and help them,” he said. “It means the helicopters can operate 24/7 and in deteriorating conditions…. It turns night into day, albeit all in a green colour, but it really brightens things up.”

Mr. Black, now executive director of the Air Force Association of Canada, said wearing the goggles never caused him much trouble, though he found himself “getting more tired, more quickly than normal.” Some others did suffer considerable pain, however, including one female Griffon officer whom he recalls being grounded because of it.

The latest study by Prof. Neary, Prof. Wayne Albert of the University of New Brunswick and others surveyed a small sample of pilots and flight engineers on the Griffon. Just published in the journal Aviation, Space and Environmental Medicine, it found that more than half the 40 personnel reported flight-related neck pain, with no difference between the pilots and engineers, who sit further back in the aircraft and perform non-flying tasks. All wear night-vision goggles.

An earlier internal study by the Canadian Forces found that almost all of the pilots who had flown at least 150 hours with night-vision goggles reported neck pain, and that 16 of those surveyed had been grounded because of the pain.

Counterweights on the back of the helmet to offset the effect of the goggles in front help somewhat but do not eliminate the problem, he said. Exercises that help develop muscle co-ordination and strength in the neck, however, appear to make a significant difference, said the kinesiologist.

[Flying Bull]

Hi all,
we use NVG (Anvis5) as well, me having 760 + hrs so far with them.
Some of our older pilots, who don´t use them frequently, seem to get problems with their neck quicker – even with less total NVG hours logged.
I myself had problems with pain in the elbow, which went away after treatment of the neck (some nervs just didn´t like the tension of my muskels there)
It helps to straighten up the neck frequently.
Including sitting straight in the bird, whenever you can.
Also, get with you back so close to a wall, that you nearly fall forward and get your back and head on to the wall, lifting your arms horizontal and your forearms vertical and holding that position for half a minute or so. Even if it looks funny to bystanders, do that a couple of times a day.
It helps to reduce the problems you might encounter flying NVG.
Greetings Udo
Flying Bull

[AvMed.IN]

Grateful thanks for all the respondents to my query on neck pain…
An analysis of physical cause of neck pain among NVG users is available at NVG: Why the Pain in Neck (http://www.avmed.in/2012/01/1408/).