Pre-war home movies: gliding site and Croydon ca. 1934

[aerobelly]

Forwarded with permission from another forum:

From before WWII, made by the late James Rudd Ratcliffe, SWMBO's
maternal grandfather.

Aircraft1 - YouTube - mainly gliders (also
Grayson on a day out, apparently, though could not see Mr
Cholmondley-Warner).

Croydon, 1930s - YouTube Croydon, likely ca. 1934,
includes Short L17 "Syrinx", Wibault 280, HP42 "Heracles", DH Dragon
Rapide, a Swiss Airlines DC2 and sundry others including I believe a
JU52/3M.


OP's father was a Flying Officer, hence the family interest.


'b

[AncientAviator]

The first film of the gliders was almost certainly taken at Camphill, the Derbyshire and Lancashire Gliding Club at Great Hucklow, and probably the crowd scenes are the National Competitions in 1938 or 1939.
The hangar at the very start of the clip is still there. Some of the walls in the later clips have been removed (I helped !) but the windsock is still in the same position.
The gull winged glider seen climbing on the winch launch was a Kirby Kite which first flew in 1935.
Gliding stopped in August 1939 until 1946 for WW2.
Rob F.

[Wander00]

Absolutely brilliant - many thanks

[Footless Halls]

Hi everybody,

Would you mind pm'ing me? I am James Rudd Ratcliffe's nephew.

'Footless'

[LTNman]

I have just watched this great film about Croydon Airport filmed in 1935..

Just wondering where the division airports were in that era as they would need customs and a terminal.

https://youtu.be/dBKgiDkITUQ

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Heston - Gatwick - Lympne ? All had customs and terminals - not sure if Lympne had a terminal in the conventional sense at that time.

[Trinity 09L]

I assume, Biggin Hill, Heston or Hendon, or south Shoreham, not to worry about Customs until your on the ground.
When I was at school opposite 60-64 and it was still active, I thought it was grass only, was it concrete pre war? Cracking film.

[VictorGolf]

Crikey, didn't Imperial Airways have some outdated kit. HP 42s and Shorts Scyllas versus Fokkers and Junkers. Even the French had a trimotor. As a plane spotter from "oop North" Croydon was always the Holy Grail in the 50s,especially the Whittemore hangar with all the Tiger Moths. "Yours for 50quid chief !".

[dastocks]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penshurst_Airfield

[LTNman]

The Handley Page 42 just looked so dated compared to the Douglas. I assume it was a DC2? Loved the engine start on HP 42 and the complex engine servicing.

[finalapproach]

Awesome film! The golden age of flying indeed. Loved the door open and pax disembarking from the Heracles while engines still shutting down! Simpler times.

[longer ron]

Thanks for the link LTNman - very enjoyable little film :)

[POBJOY]

There were plenty of Airfields local to Croydon including Kenley and Biggin Hill plus the odd landing ground along the railway from the Kent coast.
However Croydon did suffer from local fog rather than low cloud. Of course its advantage was the road and rail connection to London which was important at the time.
I can remember when Banstead Station had its name on the roof for use in the early days of radio, and the Croydon revolving searchlight beacon was kept going for several years after the airfield closed to commercial traffic.
Gatwick only became popular when flying developed for overseas holidays, and only then when it got a hard runway as the location was noted for getting waterlogged before.
In fact Redhill would have been a better option as is was lower and on the railway line plus had good rail connections to London, also could have been extended which Croydon could not.

[FlightlessParrot]

There's a rare bird indeed in this: at 10:25 there's a four-engined, shoulder-wing, monoplane. When I discovered that it couldn't be the A-W Ensign, I looked further and found it is the unique Fokker F.XXXVI. Wikipedia says there was only ever one because it couldn't compete with the Douglas designs, but compared with the DC-2 it had twice the number of Cyclones, but carried twice the number of pax.

[Ddraig Goch]

Thanks LTNman for the video VVG. There's a super ad at the end for another video titled High speed flight: Part 1. approaching the speed of sound; overlaying a picture of a !!!! Beverley !!!!!

[treadigraph]

Beverleys used to arrive an hour after their sound, as did WGAF Dornier 28s, used to occasionally see them droning over here along Green One - think they'd been to Brawdy in connection with troop training.

Fabulous film, odd to think that was all happening 85 years ago, less than a mile from where I'm sitting now. Even closer is a small memorial to the DH-34 crash on Christmas Eve 1924.

The KLM Fokker taking off is passing over what appears to be the Purley Way Lido under construction on the other side of the A23 - what's left of that site is earmarked for housing I believe (the Art Deco diving board is still there and preserved I think!), and Croydon plan to turn much of the industrial area on the airport site into more housing. Thank God the open area of the airport is now common land and can't be built on... I hope.

[treadigraph]

Another pop up on YouTube - the airfield site as it looks now from above. Trying to remember when the Tiger Club last ran an airshow on the site - think it was 1988. You couldn't do it now...

https://youtu.be/eWwkdYntO_g

[POBJOY]

Well Treads BTC and myself took part in the anniversary air show in 1980, and there is plenty of room for another.
The new 'Roundshaw Estate' had been built, but I thought it had some mini tower blocks, were they demolished later for more conventional housing.
The Air Show was 'enabled' by the local council, and indeed it was 'interesting' being allowed to operate on this historic site.
It is nice that the tarmac 'turn and go' bit is still there and the drone shoot also covers the original airfield site over at Plough Lane and Foresters drive.
Oodles of room for a air show, or even another airfield, nice that so much remains.
I happened to be there on the day in 1960 that several Beveleys flew over low level to drop the local TA Para company as part of the Croydon Town Millenary celebration.
The grass on the old (closed 1959) airfield was quite high and dozens of troopers were to be seen 'wading' through all of this carrying their chutes towards the old terminal block.
Be nice to see some footage of that (the sound of multiple Centaurus was amazing).

[treadigraph]

I missed the 1980 one (at boarding school) but made the later one in '88 - Ray Hanna bringing the Spitfire down the B axis between a block of flats on Roundshaw and a factory chimney, some one's roll inverted on take off in a Pitts being slightly lower than intended and Brendan's run in with the local Rozzers (someone's stealing one of our aircraft!)... yes, there really were two Spitfires on Croydon's hallowed turf again 30 years after it closed, MH434 and maybe Pat Lindsay's Mk1. Can't remember now...

[treadigraph]

Well, look what I found:

https://youtu.be/2NN6lB5p11c

[POBJOY]

Well there is no doubt that the good old Tiger Club could certainly put on a 'vintage show' on this hallowed ground. I remember that we were quite close to the new estate, and that rather precluded turns in that direction. BTC down in weeds again having flown up from Cornwall to take part, and was the oldest original machine there. The Sea Tiger came up from a lake near Lydd, and Turb PNZ (Philips early ride) was still around. Great considering most of the aircraft had no radio, or nav kit, with most of the pilots having PPls , and the Mew Gull had just been reborn.
It would have been even better had the Terminal building served lunch. Happy Days. The local paper (Croydon Advertiser ) produced a large coloured print for the event which i carefully rolled up and flew it back home in the 'golf club' compartment, giving my wonderful Kenley a 'visit' on the way. Stand by for an image Treads. PC

[washoutt]

At 10.25 the Fokker F-XXXVI and 10.32 its smaller brother the Fokker F-XXII. 36 and 22 pax resp.

[treadigraph]

Wish I'd been there... I seem to recall the late CamelPilot, formerly Squire of this parish, told me he was flying the Islander.

The later show was great too, though the weather wasn't all that nice as I recall. No vids came up for that one, nor one for the Beverly assault.

[TCTC]

I just discovered this film on YouTube; a classic of Croydon in the 1930s. Thought I should share it for anyone who might not have discovered it. I love the met and ATC technology!
Airport - first-ever film made film by the Shell Film Unit describing a day in the Croydon Airport - YouTube

[DaveReidUK]

Mentioned on PPRuNe last year, but well worth a reminder.

[Shackman]

I like the 'ad' for high speed flight at the end - featuring the Beverley!

[Herod]

And not a hi-vis jacket in sight!!

[Repos]

Or gloves! What fluid would they be cleaning the stripped down engine with?

[VictorGolf]

But everybody wore hats!

[Allan Lupton]

But everybody wore hats!
and collars/ties, even when wearing overalls!

[ShyTorque]

What a shame they chose to develop Heathrow instead.

I couldn't help noticing early on in the video that the left side of the nose of "Heracles" looked like someone had kicked seven bells out of it!

[TCU]

To Cape Town in an HP42. Imagine. I promise never again to bemoan a choppy ride, deep in the night somewhere over equatorial Africa, whilst I am sat high, snug and safe in a modern wide body jet.

[Allan Lupton]

To Cape Town in an HP42. Imagine. I promise never again to bemoan a choppy ride, deep in the night somewhere over equatorial Africa, whilst I am sat high, snug and safe in a modern wide body jet.
Quite so, but I'd say it was better than using the Union Castle Line's finest for ten days of ploughing through the Atlantic.

[washoutt]

It was not so much the choppy ride, but the double 8hour-sectors in a fully loaded 4-prop crossing the Atlantic from Lisbon-Salt Island-Paramaribo that one remembers. But as a 10 year old TAP, I enjoyed every minute of it. :)

[ATNotts]

Looking at he different types of aircraft being flown by the various airlines featured in the film it strikes me just how "antiquated" the HP42 appears when set against the shiny DC2 of KLM, and the even the Junkers of Lufthansa. At that time in airliner development the UK looked to be way behind the curve when it comes to aircraft design compared with manufacturers in the USA and elsewhere in Europe.

[Self loading bear]

…. the Atlantic from Lisbon-Salt Island-Paramaribo :)

Salt Island British Virgin Islands or somewhere else?
(I do not see any airport remains there).

[DaveReidUK]

Salt Island British Virgin Islands or somewhere else?
(I do not see any airport remains there).

No, nothing to do with the BVI.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/340x474/bela_vista_net_sal_map_7061716788e7792e38b529ab76ee7081c15b1 f87.jpg

[WHBM]

No, nothing to do with the BVI.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/340x474/bela_vista_net_sal_map_7061716788e7792e38b529ab76ee7081c15b1 f87.jpg
Have to say it never struck me that Sal Island, of SAA refuelling fame from Jo'burg to Europe etc, was actually Portuguese for Salt.

Who would have called it that ? KLM, it appears, in their 1958 schedule for a Super Connie, originally from Amsterdam, through to Paramaribo, Caracas and Curacao (but not served on the return).

kl585-09.jpg (1616×1115) (timetableimages.com) (http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/kl/kl5805/kl585-09.jpg)

[washoutt]

Right, WHBM, KL 771 on the Saturday did that. In the middle of the night, we (my sister and I, 9 and 10 years old) wandered around a deserted airport, and no Coca Cola in sight!

[Alan Biles]

Wow. That brought back some memories; particulary the ident beacon at the end. The mast was on the SE corner of the Rollason hangar and in the late 1960s when I worked there, I would regularly climb to the top and survey the airfield whilst eating my lunch. All without the aid of fall-arrest gear, hard hat, goggles, gloves and safety boots. Goodness knows how I survived. Happy days.

[Warmtoast]

Quite so, but I'd say it was better than using the Union Castle Line's finest for ten days of ploughing through the Atlantic.
As a young airman on his way from the UK to S. Rhodesia in 1951 I travelled in Cabin Class for 14-days on the Union Castle's 'Edinburgh Castle' from Southampton to Cape Town and know which I would prefer!

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/494x312/image_36070872f73a45aee0100ee5ef13ac57b559aa03.png

[Allan Lupton]

As a young airman on his way from the UK to S. Rhodesia in 1951 I travelled in Cabin Class for 14-days on the Union Castle's 'Edinburgh Castle' from Southampton to Cape Town and know which I would prefer!

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/494x312/image_36070872f73a45aee0100ee5ef13ac57b559aa03.png
Well I was repatriated to England from Southern Rhodesia via Cape Town and then the Winchester Castle to Southampton in January 1950. We had travelled to SR by Hunting Airways Vickers Viking in 1948 which was interesting enough for a ten-year-old but I never quite forgave father for not using the BOAC flying boat service.

[Warmtoast]

Well I was repatriated to England from Southern Rhodesia via Cape Town and then the Winchester Castle to Southampton in January 1950. We had travelled to SR by Hunting Airways Vickers Viking in 1948 which was interesting enough for a ten-year-old but I never quite forgave father for not using the BOAC flying boat service.
What a small world. I was on the way home in August 1953 in the Arundel Castle when we passed the Winchester Castle at sea on it's way out to Cape Town as seen here.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/867x1137/winchester_castle_at_sea_2_9e8c942927f3ad8c9c6aaf0dcea9bf9f8 4de087c.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1192x852/winchester_castle_at_sea_3_416d1de2179d41ea21f71e2d882ff4740 9272699.jpg
Apologies for the Thread Creep - WT

[PAXboy]

My father would have been delighted to see the film of Croydon. When it was released in 1934 he was 11 and all the aircraft, buildings and activities totally familiar to him. His father ran a business at the airport selling small private aircraft. He also had a contract to fly newspaper photographers to any big event, or disaster, and get aerial pictures.

On the long haul HP42, my Great Aunt told me (in the 1970s) how wonderful the earlier Imperial Flying Boats were. Stopping each night in a hotel. Originally, the service terminated on the Vaal Dam and she then had to take the train to CPT where she lived. Later the service was extend to land on (I think) False bay as Table Bay was too rough, but I sit to be corrected on that. She also used the Union-Castle many times in 1st Class as they had serious amounts of dosh and were part of the high society of CPT. She died in 1977.

[Four Turbo]

Lovely film. Brought back many happy memories of my Flying Schol at Croydon in the sunny summer of 1955. Airways Aero Club on Tiger Moths G-ANDE and G-ANEW. - both sort of still around. I managed to get one of them off the grass onto the tarmac; stopping it still brings me nightmares! Anyway stood me in good stead to carry on flying to my 65th birthday without too many further scares.

[Warmtoast]

My father would have been delighted to see the film of Croydon. When it was released in 1934 he was 11 and all the aircraft, buildings and activities totally familiar to him. His father ran a business at the airport selling small private aircraft. He also had a contract to fly newspaper photographers to any big event, or disaster, and get aerial pictures.

On the long haul HP42, my Great Aunt told me (in the 1970s) how wonderful the earlier Imperial Flying Boats were. Stopping each night in a hotel. Originally, the service terminated on the Vaal Dam and she then had to take the train to CPT where she lived. Later the service was extend to land on (I think) False bay as Table Bay was too rough, but I sit to be corrected on that. She also used the Union-Castle many times in 1st Class as they had serious amounts of dosh and were part of the high society of CPT. She died in 1977.

FWIW twenty-years ago Flatus Veteranus posted a wonderfully descriptive and long account of a trip he made as a boy from Poole Harbour to Rangoon by Imperial Airways flying-boat RMA Caledonia in 1940 it's here in PPRuNe:
https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/48484-rma-caledonia.html

[PAXboy]

Thank you Warmtoast for locating that tremendous story. Great reading.