Illegal Drug Use Thread

[rupes67]

I am looking to start a CPL course in the next few months but I have a question regarding the Class 1 medical and historic substance abuse.

Before I start I would say that I have not touched any drugs for 8 years. I was smoking cannabis and mild cocaine use in my early 20's.

I was on them for about 2 years and although I did not require any treatment it still appears on my medical record as I had to see a doctor at one point and come clean,so to speak.

Am I to be punished for the rest of my life for the follies of my youth!

Any constructive help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Rupes

[gingernut]

A similar situation occured to a prospective pilot on here a few years ago. He was attemting to gain a class2, and from memory, had only used cannabis (not coke).

I got some feedback from him some time later- he gained his class2, but had to have a sit down with a psychiatrist first,(At his own expense), in order to state he wasn't an "addict."

I'm not sure the position with class1 or with using cocaine. It may be worth a search as I think it may have been discussed before.

Without wishing to get into the morals of it all, I'm not sure it's a matter of punishment. The AME's are there to protect the public, not for the sake of your health. :)

[rupes67]

Thank you for your reply. I will do some further investigation. It is difficult to know who to ask. Can you speak to an AME without disclosure?

Regarding the AME I fully appreciate their position and the last thing I want to do is endanger passengers and crew but not sure how to prove that I am clean and medically fit.

Rupes

[ashfaqshaikhuk]

Hi,

Im currently doing my ATPLs and was in Amsterdam recently with friends and we consumed abit of weed over there.

I haven't done my Class 1 yet, so I tought I would call the CAA and ask them how long it stays in the body. When I called, the CAA kind of scared me by asking my details and my license details so I hung up.

Would anyone here know how long you usually need for it to get out of the system??

I would appreciate the help.

Thank you.

[763 jock]

Don't you think it would be a good idea to get a Class One before you start chucking money at an ATPL? You might not pass the medical and all that money would be wasted.

As for "accidentally consuming cannabis" please grow up. You may have got carried away after too much pop, but it was not an accident.

[ashfaqshaikhuk]

OK, so I got carried away, but any clue about the time it would take?

[763 jock]

Google is your friend. NHS Direct. (http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2287.aspx?CategoryID=53&SubCategoryID=536)

[PT6A]

Stupid for touching it considering the line of work your planning on joining.

As for the CAA as far as im aware they dont test for drugs.

[763 jock]

No doubt "Shell Management" will have something to say about that then......:E

[ashfaqshaikhuk]

Thanks for your replies, since it was just a one off, i think ill be ok :)

[gingernut]

It tends to be detectable for about 28 days. And I'm pretty sure that in the aviation world, that the only time they test for it is if you crash (at post mortem).

It's a little perverse, as most Class A drugs tend to stick around only for a day or two. Some theorists say this is why class A stuff is more prevalent in the prison system (less chance of getting caught).

If you admit your use to the CAA, you will probably need a psychiatric opinion before gaining the ticket.



Don't really wanna' get into the ethical side of the debate, just presenting the facts as I know them.:)

[Kiwi red]

It stays for up to 6 months in your hair, so the usual test for cannnabis is by taking a hair sample.

[ice2x01]

Depends on if you're a regular smoker, body weight, and metabolism.

Anywhere between a week or a month for a urine test.

Google is your friend.

[Torque Tonight]

'Accidentally'... whatever. Regardless of whether or not your aviation authority has a policy of random testing, your (future) employer probably will, as a condition of the contract. I know of a particular base of a particular airline recently being visited by company appointed testers for random checks of cabin crew and pilots - a few resigned immediately rather than take the test, a few refused and were sacked and a few took the test, tested positive and were sacked. Nobody mourned their loss as :mad: like that have no place in aviation.

Furthermore, airport security will stop anyone who they have suspiscion may be unfit through alcohol and after testing the police and courts deal with transgressors appropriately. I see no reason why being suspected of being unfit through drugs would not be dealt with in an identical manner.

Cannabis is detectable in the hair for a very long time, and has such a long hangover effect that smoking it on your first day off will most likely still cause impairment when you are next back at work. Consider this incident to be a warning and make sure it never happens again.

[Jamie-Southend]

It stays for up to 6 months in your hair, so the usual test for cannnabis is by taking a hair sample.

its getting worse for this poor guy ;)

[Flying Torquewrench]

Well Jamie, it depends how long his hair is! :) In my case (hair only) it wouldn't be detectable at all. :{

[SloppyJoe]

I have never heard of it being tested through hair. Have heard it stays in your hair but seldom is that used as it is so expensive.

You did not break the law.

To say it impairs your judgment days after is not true.

Don't make a habit of it and you will be fine.

Once you get a job don't do it even once.

You can get tested at work, I have, on the airbridge, breath into this and also can I swipe this on your forehead.

It really is not worth it.

I used to smoke it sometimes at school, got tested 2 weeks after smoking and was clear, I guess because I only did it once every couple of months. Would never even think of touching the stuff now.

[cavortingcheetah]

It stays in the hair forever so long as does alcohol, at least in the sort of industrial quantities that might apply to a dipsomaniac. There is at least one doctor at LGW who has been agitating for hair analysis checks for years.
Two things only prevent this happening as a matter of course. One is the cost and the second is that the CAA are quite concerned at the number of positive drug tests that would be thrown up by such a testing plan. I conjecture that they're worried about press exposure but suggest that since the demise of the NoW much of the danger has been removed.

[lofo101]

Silly thing to do, but here's hoping it was a one-off incident of silliness.
30 days urine (UP TO, for a one off likely to be less).
Hair: as long as the hair is there, in theory + the 30 days.
Easy solution: do what an AFL player here in Australia did: shave it off (ALL of it, ie down there too).

[stilton]

Get and independent test from a drug store / chemist or a Doctor in a few weeks that you pay for yourself without using insurance (no paper trail) if its positive.



Once you test negative then you are good to apply for an aviation medical.



The other posters have filled you in on the wisdom of taking drugs and flying,



Oh, and consider shaving your head !

[cavortingcheetah]

But this poor fellow consumed weed, as in consume as a synonym for eat. So he ingested the stuff as in eating a hash brownie which was quite possibly made from Afghan Black or Lebanese Blond? That might put a completely different complexion on the situation? Is the drug absorbed into the lining of the gut or the stomach or is it excreted in the normal evacuatory process? I understand from the UK medical department at the Beehive that six weeks for hair is the norm. The point of reference is, as for arsenic, the root of the hair so in order to avoid detection along that route, complete depilation would be necessary which is both extremely painful and expensive.

[Fliegenmong]

Edited.....'cos I guess a few really wanted me to...:ok:

[Exascot]

OK, no problem then :ok:

[CY333]

love the thread name..accidentally ........LMAO

[Exascot]

Yank all your hair out and never do it again


Ah, just had a thought, I presume any hair applies to this test. No way am I waxing all body hair :{:{:{

Best stay off the funny stuff.

[1a sound asleep]

an illicit substance? Care to elaborate?

[1a sound asleep]

You probably don't want the lecture but alcohol, cannabis and ecstasy use? Are you really sure you want to be a pilot? Get X tattooed on both hands and don't ever do it again.

After 3 months nothing will be detected.

[Bad medicine]

As these questions are coming up relatively regularly, I've merged the last few together.

Cheers,

BM

[Agaricus bisporus]

This thread is hilarious! Is there anyone who actually admits to taking "illicit substances" more than once or doing it deliberately instead of "by accident"? Or of taking substantial quantities instead of a tiny amount? Get real!

Does anyone really expect us to believe "Oh, Officer, I feel so stupid. I only did it once and I'll never do it again!"

Is this the sort of attitude that will lead to filing an MOR on yourself when you've done something silly? There's a fundamental incompatability with flying here, isn't there?

[Shell Management]

There's a fundamental incompatability with flying here, isn't there?

Yes but the airline industry has a culture of preferring to cover this up.

[Colibri49]

First and foremost, the best advice is to stay off such substances permanently and forever and only to drink alcohol in moderation.

I completely agree that you should go and get a Class1 medical before anything else; that would apply even if illegal substances weren't an issue. So the CAA isn't going to raise an eyebrow if you get the medical done first because many others do just that anyway.

Never admit to anything on questionnaires for a medical, apart from "normal" childhood illnesses like mumps. Tucked into the list of ailments on the tick-box form when I did my first medical for the military many years ago, are innocent-looking things like persistent headaches/migraines, bed-wetting, glandular fever and asthma. These conditions are a definite NO for the military; I'm not sure about the CAA.

The advice I was given by an uncle who flew Hurricanes, Vampires, Harvards and Dakotas was "Don't tell the blighters anything that they can't find out for themselves". Well, none of the "fail if you admit" items applied to me fortunately, but you can make of his advice what you will.

Too bad if anything undesirable is already on your medical records, in which case the advice in my second paragraph still applies.

[ppltrainee90]

Hi guys, just a quick question that I've been trying to get to the bottom of.
Basically, I'm taking my air law exam and my medical exam soon to be able to fly solo, but from reading the FAA's website something came to my attention.
Basically, about nine months ago I smoke joint of weed with some friends. That was the first time I smoked weed and since then I have never been near it.
Should I take precautions when taking my medical? Is there a high chance that this will show up? And if it does, what are the consequences? Thanks.

[Rory Dixon]

1) drugs don't get tested on class 2 medicals
2) It is very hard to find traces of THC 9 months after a single use of weed
3) Why do all these people always state that it was a single occurence? Do you all think the rest in the world is stupid?
4) DRUGS and FLYING do not go together!!!!! You have to decide what is important to you. And stick to it.

[ppltrainee90]

What is a class 2 medical? Is that the kind that I'd take for my air law? If it makes a difference I live in England.
Because it was a single occurrence.
Flying is more important, but (this may not be the case for you) I think it's just nature for people to want to try things in life, so I don't regret doing it.

[GolfLima]

You may want to do a bit of investigating and revision of air law, this is pretty basic stuff...

Not regretting you did it infers you don't think it was wrong, having a PPL and being in command of an aircraft requires a bit of maturity.

[ppltrainee90]

There's nothing wrong with taking a risk. Anyway, I've done it, and probably won't do it again. Is there much of a problem?

[cavortingcheetah]

There could be a very big problem if the medical requires a hair sample analysis for substance abuse. Information on this and other drug related problems, including alcohol, tobacco and women, is readily available on Dr Google and associated websites.
There is one medical examiner in particular at CAA/LGW who was very keen on the hair follicle test being imposed and so it might well have been by now.

Inso far as the FAA is concerned, I copied out the following for digestion from this site:

Removed commercial link. Better to use the FAA website.

(Substance Dependence/Substance Abuse - A diagnosis or medical history of substance dependence is disqualifying unless there is established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years. A history of substance abuse within the preceding 2 years is disqualifying. The list of substances includes alcohol and all illegal drugs (marijuana, cocaine, etc.) plus certain prescription drugs such as sedatives, anxiolytics, etc.)

So I suppose it could be said with a certain degree of exactitude that the FAA take this sort of thing quite seriously. Regular as opposed to irregular use of marijuana within the last two years disqualifies you from holding an FAA licence? I have always found the FAA office at KPNE to be extremely helpful. Perhaps you should contact them for clarification?

Risk taking poses its own problems in aviation and generally speaking such an attitude is not encouraged among pilots either amateur or professional. In the absence of gross neurological manifestation this characteristic is not likely to be determined at the initial medical stage. The unfortunate attitude which condones such a degree of infantility will, however, usually be determined at the psychology tests administered by an individual airline as part of its recruitment process.

I should state that I have no medical qualifications and that the above a personal thoughts and ruminations based on empirical research generally available on the internet to which I commend your further researches.

[michael01fl]

don't report it, it was a one time thing, stay away from it and enjoy flying, would you tell a police officer you were speeding yesterday?

[ppltrainee90]

Thanks for the advice cavortingcheetah.
I'll check into it a bit more. I'm only 16 so if it turns out that I have to wait 2 years, it's not a big problem cause I've got a lot of time.

[dlx_xlb]

Drugs are only really a problem if you are dependent upon them.. and suffer withdrawal symptoms if not taken..

Or if you conduct safety sensitive aviation activities whilst under the influence of an illicit or a banned drug..

Also if you abuse alcohol or any other legal over the counter drug...

after 9 months and if it was your only time, you won't have a problem if you do get drug tested..

[MaximumPete]

Why, are you a junkie??

Only asking

[zero1]

Oh dear not another one... drug test :=

[GolfLima]

Anyone who is worried about whether there is a drug test should not get anywhere near a cockpit. :rolleyes:

[Genghis the Engineer]

BBC News - Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19372456)

Just thought I'd mention it - an interesting report on BBC Radio 4 this morning whilst I was waking up.

[Zeppelin]

Bet all these guys that only tried it once also didnt inhale :}

[Pugilistic Animus]

Honest answer...If you want to fly commercially you have to put down the blunts if you're a private pilot or in some part-time operation well as long as you're not flyingwith it in your system I personally don't care just DON'T GET CAUGHT and be clean for your checkups...they have home drug testing kits

weed ain't that bad...the other stuff---not good in general...don't duit...:=
and No PA is not on 'drugs'...just being honest...had to give up weed to fly...:)

This is why pprune is anonymous...;)

G'day

[Pugilistic Animus]

Although I admit I don't think I would have passed any of my classes without a little help from my friend...:}

:8

[jcbmack]

However, having performed research myself I can first tell you 1000 people in one country (BBC link) with vaguely defined operational variables and lack of true randomization this study is no better than the meta analysis performed by Lancet a few years back where they found the first causal link between marijuana use and schizophrenia in persons without a family history of the disease.

As someone who has smoke plenty of pot over many years and written a Brain and Behavior paper (15 pages) on the effects of marijuana on the nervous systems and other systems-- there can be temporary short term memory loss and munchies:p

A small subset of people with schizoid tendencies or schizophrenia and certain other mental disorders can be more susceptible to paranoia and it is also environment dependent. Do not trust the environment you are in and getting high may amplify that.

[Pugilistic Animus]

Funny enough Jcb I wrote a paper for Cell biology, in part, dealing with canabinoid receptors G-proteins and G-protein couple receptors while activating said pathways with weed...the paper was entitited From development to marijuana use-a survey of the many roles of heterotrimeric G-proteins and their receptors---got an 'A' of course

you and I are kindred spirits it seems...;)

this tread is making me want a nice blunt, I had better stop now...:}


:ouch: