Honesty re Easy Jet

[cayotcas]

Hello Everyone
I am a 10 yr SFO In A uk Charter Outfit
I m trying to weigh up my options re future in the UK
Are EZY still looking and if so what Bases are on offer?
Is life good in EZY ??i have heard they are offering commands inside of 18mths,:ok: what is the reality given economic conditions stay as they are?

[Turbine1]

Actually I wouldn't mind the Honest opinion regarding Easy and Flexi crew,

I'm in the same position as Cayotcas, just over Ten years flogging back and forwards to Turkey with a charter Operator based in the UK, with the climate in the UK and charter specifically, I have been looking for a change in direction.

Command now looks further away than last year, who knows what's around the corner, I certainly don't, I got the mortgage wrong five years ago, who knew it was going to drop to .5 base rate. I fixed for five years and 4.99%.

If for argument sake I wanted to stay at LGW, what is the chance of that happening.
Is there any base in Amsterdam that has been hinted at?

Guys thanks for your time and Happy New Year.

PS before anyone asks I will look up the back catalogue of discussions regarding easy and Flexi crew.

[cayotcas]

Hello Turbine
Can I ask why Flexi crew? Are you A320 rated ?
Many thanks

[skyflyer737]

Sorry, I can't give you the info you would like but also have a couple of questions. Would easyJet look at B737 rated Captains through CTC Flexicrew? I guess not as it's a 99% Airbus airline?

Any info much appreciated.

[PT6A]

I thought easy was 100% bus now?

[Kiwi red]

Easyjet were hiring contract FOs through PARC and inexperienced FOs through Oxford and CTC. As far as quick commands that is no longer happening, I haven't heard of anyone getting a command within 18 months for years. There is a long list of senior FOs waiting for commands. If you have a A320 rating then you might be in with a chance but I don't know of they're still hiring at the moment through PARC or not.

[Fresh tracks]

I’m after similar information as the OP but without the experience. It looks like easyJet Flexicrew is where I’m destined but I’d like to know what life is really like being a contractor:

1. Is 750hrs/yr minimum as inferred in the contract a reality?
2. Are ALL contracts based? I’ve seen a provision that some may not be based- how does this work?
3. Do EZY charge to jump seat commute to base as they say they might? If so, what do they charge?
4. They say they will provide parking at the base but they may charge. Do they? If so how much per day? (I appreciate this may vary)
5. How much are they charging for uniforms?
6. What is easyJet’s crew food policy which we are entitled to? Is it any good (highly subjective I know!)?
7. Are people still being offered permanent positions? If so after how many months/years?

All answers, thoughts and opinions from guys and girls with ACTUAL Flexicrew experience much appreciated.

[Captain Spam Can]

These always end up in debates mainly from people on the outside looking in. From someone who actually works at ezy I’ll say it’s not perfect but I’m very happy. I’ve worked in other airlines including charter and I’ll say it’s up there. Money/lifestyle is good and always getting better, I’d say industry average and the management are always looking to improve things including relations with crew which is a positive, although current pay/lifestyle talks are going on too long!!

Good Points
Stable Airline
Pays okay…look on PPJN and don’t forget to add bonus on top
Roster 5/4/5/3
Variety of routes…business/bucket and spade
New well maintained aircraft
Lots of base choice
No stop overs if you enjoy your own bed/family/the feel of your own wife and not a hostie.
THE PEOPLE!!

Bad Points
Short/medium haul..so if you want long haul forget it
No stop overs if you like to get about (if you know what I mean ;-)..)
The whole name easyjet/low cost if you can’t get over that.
People on different contracts, flexi crew/season cabin crew. It was better when everyone was just on a permanent contract.

Now if I was an experienced F/O I wouldn’t leave to join flexi crew as you’re most likely to be put in Europe and will be on flexi crew for at least 12 months. Once you get offered a Perm contract it will 100% be for Paris/Madrid/Milan. You can then put your name on the transfer list back to the Uk which if you want LGW will prob come through before you even start out in Europe but if you want somewhere like EDI you might be waiting years. The good thing with Europe is the pay, Captains earn around E12,000 a month SFO E6500 a month. The contracts are better but if you have a family in the UK I doubt Europe would appeal. Easyjet are now realising they need a mixture of experience f/o’s and cadets so I would wait to be offered a normal contract Uk based. Flexi F/O’s can earn 4 grand a month but if easyjet don’t fly you one month much then you only get paid what you fly.
I wouldn’t stay at Easyjet if I was LGW based, that is the truly low cost side of the airline where you are worked to the max, I average around 65hrs a month, I’d say as a whole 85hrs a month is a good average for EZY. For me there are only 2 airlines to be at for good lifestyle/flying/moral/job stability and that’s BA or EZY.

Hope this helps :ok:

[babotika]

eJ will only hire FOs through flexicrew regardless of previous experience. There was a very brief campaign for direct entry SFOs to go to the new LIS base but I don't know what came of that.

Honestly speaking on flex terms eJ is a decent enough hobby during the winter and a decent enough job in the summer but it's a long cry from a career especially if you want to stay in the UK as permanent contracts are few and far between - most of them having gone to the continental bases over the last year with nothing planned in the UK until after the summer.

Basing on flexicrew is completely haphazard, you will go where you're told to go (at your own cost) and stay there until you are moved again with a month's notice. There is a 6 month limit for continental bases but that doesn't mean you get sent back to the UK afterwards... I have been very lucky only getting based in places I want to be but I know others who have been uprooted fairly often.

Job security is also what you make of it. In practise if all goes well then all goes well but the legal papers say you can be dismissed for just about anything - failing a sim, going sick, being late, or the company just not needing you anymore. If the wrong people don't like you an excuse will be found. If you're joining experienced and rated it's not so bad but the cadets are walking on thin ice and I know a few who have been sent home with a £35k loan and 100h on type.

Command depends on your factored hours and the amount of other qualified people in the queue, with a permanent contract of course. I've heard it's something between 2 and 4 years now.

All the 737s are gone now, last 737 drivers are in line training on the bus. There may be a few DEC positions for LIS but only for people with time on type.

Just live everything else it's what you make of it. Some love it, some hate it and others just get on with it.

[PENKO]

Captain Spam Can, you might want to re-check your European salary figures! It looks like you forgot to subtract tax...


Ballpark in Italy: captain 8000 euro, SFO 5000 euro fluctuating up and down depending on sectors flown.


18 months to command? Technically it is possible I guess, but I absolutely would not count on it. I just spoke to an SFO who is finishing his command selection process. He has no idea how long it will take for him to reach the left seat. Could be months, could be a year, and beyond that you need a crystal ball.

[cayotcas]

Thanks for info guys,
Capt Spam can especially so
I was under the impression that EZY needed experienced F/o numbers to try and help narrow the situation of gradient on the flight deck

I have 7500 hrs on the A320/321/330 and don't want /couldnt live with flexi crew uncertainty or indeed basing

Really grateful to you all .

[Captain Spam Can]

Alot of guys in Europe (Belgiums esp) are not paying tax....its full of commuters with different situations/scams going so its hard to guage take home....i know E6-6.6K is standard Orly paris take home for SFO after Social security, French pay there taxes at the end of the year, so you need to put some away the tax bill is around 10k for the year but after the accountant in Paris i think had re-done it, its around 3K...not bad for a years tax bill.

[PENKO]

Evading tax is a personal choice. Trusting creative accountants as well. Never listen to what a colleague says about tax. 90% of time it is based on wishful thinking :ok:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

The boat for UK jet charter experienced SFO's joining easyJet for a quick UK command sailed in 2007. You've missed it my quite some margin. Colleagues with more foresight didn't.

In 2008 the portcullis on experienced FO's clattered down just before Christmas. After that it was CTC only. Flexi deals that treated you like you were are a flying instructor/air work guy... Congratulations on spending £70k to jump 4 rungs of the ladder - now rung 4 pays the same as the old rung 1. You were warned.



There is a vast pool of highly experienced SFO's in EZY despite talk to the contrary. The current expansion stops in 2013. A handful of direct entry SFO's may sneak in but i doubt it.

The sandpit is a much better bet for a job offer. I'd rather spoon my eyes out. But hey.


WWW

[Reader not a writer]

WWW.

You are absolutely 100% correct. The Flexi-Guys were well warned in advance and have not listened. Many of us told them to do whatever they can to get on to a Perm Contract, at any base in the network.

A small %age have moved to Europe, who are now EasyJet employees. Only those that have done so are on a Transfer List to the base of their choice. After 18/24 months of this debacle there are some guys complaining about the lack of hours/pay in the winter months, who have not even applied for a position in Europe, cos they are happy with their current base!!!

My comments might seem harsh to some, but if you are a Contractor on day one and do nothing to improve your long-term prospects. I just wonder!!

Apply as soon as you can for a Perm Contract and then have a semblance of control over your future. Take the hit of a possible poor basing but at least you are an EasyJet employee and you have protections.(thanks to BALPA)

There are numerous Captains on this forum who could tell you about not being based where they wanted to be!!

Good Luck Guys

[Narrow Runway]

WWW is probably correct, but has an unfortunate way of saying it. He always sounds rather pleased about the fact that others can't get in to eJ anymore on decent terms and conditions - the employment conditions he so fully describes on occasion.

But don't worry about that, WB will soon be after the old t & c's next.

It's the old divide and conquer trick. Seems to be doing nicely at eJ.

Personally, if you want to be a Captain, like WWW says, I'd go to the M.E., I wouldn't feel the need to spoon my eyes out necessarily though. If you're not bothered about Command, I'd apply to B.A. as soon as possible.

Happy New Year to everyone.

[Wingswinger]

Most of what others have written is reasonably accurate. The only way into EZY is through CTC Flexicrew/OAA as a cadet or PARC as a 320 rated contract SFO. There is, however, recognition that easyJet will have to offer a type-rating akin to the old TRSS in order to continue to recruit sufficient numbers to fill the large experience gap which has been created by the use of so many flexi-cadets in the RHS. The middle of this year and 2013 was mentioned as possible timing for that.

In the 2012 training year we will train 200 new flexi-cadets, 90 type-rated contract SFOs (most of whom have been "identified" I have been told) and about 150 new captains. Those are the most up-to-date figures I have.

There are no "quick commands". Type-rated contract SFOs will have to first secure a permanent contract then start the command assessment process in order to be put on the command list. A realistic minimum time to achieve this from starting as a contract SFO is 2-3 years. Then you'd have to wait in turn for your course.

Recruitment and command course numbers for 2013 and beyond are anyone's guess. EZY cannot go on expanding forever and already the strategy is to expand the business by replacing 319s with 320s where it makes commercial sense. And we are all bracing ourselves for a possible Eurozone collapse. Read into that what you will. That said, if any airline survives the crises, EZY will. There are a lot of captains who will be shuffling off into the sunset in the coming years so command opportunities will be there and there is no way that many of the flexi-cadets will be either experienced enough or good enough to take their places.

[CaptainProp]

Captain Spam Can, you might want to re-check your European salary figures! It looks like you forgot to subtract tax...

I've seen similar comments here before.

Why would you state a net salary when people are asking for pay information for a job?!

In both Italy, France and Germany your tax burden can change with 15-20 % depending on if you own a house, are married, have children, own a house abroad etc etc.....
For ANY salary comparison between jobs you need to compare gross salary and then people make their own tax deductions to that salary. Also when it comes to pension details gross salary needs to be given as this is what most (all?) pensions are based on....

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Narrow Runway, on the contrary, I could not be more displeased and no man has done more to facilitate the arresting of the inevitable decline.

I hope you're not bitter with me for being one of the very few I've had to eject from the easyJet private forum.


Happy New Year.


WWW

[Narrow Runway]

WWW,

I think you've got the wrong man there? What easyJet private forum have you ever ejected me from? And when?

Seeing as I've never worked for eJ, I couldn't have been a member of your forum.

As for being bitter? Not me old fellow. Currently enjoying 7 weeks off (full duty and base pay) over Xmas. I also love my 2 week on/off roster. And I love the fact that I work outside the airlines for one of the FTSE 100 biggest companies with minimal exposure to Europe or the UK. The mix of long/short and medium haul is amazing and all the better that we only ever work Monday to Thursday on the whole. And seeing as I only fly 250 hours a year and earn at least as much as an easyJet Captain, I can't see why I would need to be bitter.

As I said, Happy New Year. I'm off skiing tomorrow. Ironically, on easyJet as they fly to near my Alpine retreat. Better than Ryanair though!

[Pizza Express]

Back in 2007 we had recommend a friend as an official leg up to join easyjet. I had mates in all sorts of airlines in the UK with their eyes wide shut, I was shouting "GET IN HERE NOW" you know how things change in Aviation. Some were clever enough to overcome the mighty fall to low cost and some were determined to keep their 30 hours a month golden days off and in some cases Pilots hat.

I wish we were taking on DE FOs with good and relevant experience but the sad reality of the situation is, If you have more than 1 hours flight time in your log book you are over qualified for almost every Jet Job going in the UK.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Narrow Runway - apologies, I thought you were someone else.

Your job sounds ideal. Can I PM you my CV?

Pizza Express - spot on. And as the gathering storm of Euro collapse and war with Iran darkens the only game in town is finding safe harbour.

Airlines will go bust in 2012.


WWW

[Narrow Runway]

WWW,

You're absolutely correct that airlines will fail this coming year.

One of the big problems that I see second/third "tier" airlines getting access to is aircraft financing. There is already a credit crunch of sorts here at present.

Only the most creditworthy of individuals and businesses will gain access to funding.

Ironically, there may have to be a slowdown in training for that very reason.

Safe flying :-)

[Alexander de Meerkat]

I have to concur with the easyJet pilots contributing on here. I believe that easyJet is a good place to work right now, for all its faults, but I would be struggling to see a much better place to work in the UK, with the possible exception of BA. Even that option would depend on how old you are and how long you're willing to wait for promotion.

Regarding the risk in coming here as flexi crew pilots, I would have to agree that the days of quick commands are long gone. Nonetheless if I was a UK charter pilot right now I would be very worried about the future. EasyJet is not the best-paid airline around, but it is certainly one of the most secure. Right now that makes it an extremely attractive place to work. The other factor in the temporary contract argument is that if the background project works out, there is likely to be a substantial improvement in those terms and conditions. Most critical, there is likely to be a move towards permanent employment status much more easily that has been the case in the past. What that means in practice is that coming here on the temporary contract is no longer the risk it once was. The European economic situation is clearly very uncertain, and that could lead to significant difficulties for all our lives. I move away from easyJet would not seem very sensible to me.

[macdo]

I suspect the OP would be better off staying where he/she is, TCX, I would guess and keep everything crossed for the future. With so much seniority. its a hell of a lot to give up for alleged green pastures new. I have seen three past financial mishaps and have not jumped ship and having listened to those that have, it hasn't generally bought them more money or security, sometimes a command in the back of beyond. If you are in your twenties and are at the bottom of the list, different matter.

[Narrow Runway]

MACDO

Fair point, but what good is seniority in a dead or dying airline?

Plenty of people have left good seniority in Charter and even legacies in order to seek out new pastures.

I'm one of them. Taken the redundancy cash twice and never looked back.

The key is to keep applying for anything that may be useful to you, no matter how unlikely the job offer may seem!

[captainbirdseye]

Whilst I agree with most of what has been said above. I think there is a not so pleasant side to easy that is being skimmed over here. Would some of the FOs who were forced to go bankrupt due to flexicrew care to comment?
As far as I know the flexi guys have no BALPA recognition putting them in a very difficult position regarding forced base transfers at short notice or changes to working conditions.

My 2p worth!

[macdo]

Narrow Runway,
Reports of our demise have been much exaggerated!
with apologies to Mark Twain:=

[Narrow Runway]

Forgive me, I'm not insinuating that TCX is dead - or dying.

But from a career point of view, I realised it had no attraction in 2006 after 6 years service.

I can't see it being any better now. In fact, one of my best friends is being demoted after 13 years service. And he waited 11 of those for his Command anyway.

Good luck in 2012, I really hope it's better than the last few you've all had.

Happy New Year and safe flights.

[cayotcas]

Many Thanks for the interesting reading ,one of you is correct re my employer !

One thing that strikes me is a point in the last comment about a 2 yr capt being demoted after 13 yrs of service,not too sure where your friend sits but that may not be accurate, things are not set in stone just yet .

Although its a dire situation at the minute for us( its been on the cards since the fateful day in 2008 as far as many are concerned),we have to keep going, for some we cannot or indeed want to venture out of the UK

Fingers crossed for us all, hold on tight I think 2012 will be the toughest yet:bored:

:ugh:

[Narrow Runway]

Cayotcas,

He's definitely being demoted. At least that was the last I heard 10 days ago.

I don't think he even had the luxury of moving bases to keep his Command.

A great shame. Someone, somewhere in TCG didn't have their eyes on the ball.

Good luck for 2012 and beyond.

[cayotcas]

I think there is still some hope from the info I have as of two days ago ,BUT we shall see, Im sure I know him and I do feel for everyone inc the cabin crew , Office Staff etc,we are losing very very good people and we are demoralising many more who stay .

The general fear is, People Displaced,People Demoted,People NEVER going to see career progression = difficult working conditions!

After all, we have staff numbers and the "personal touch" ship sailed a long time ago .

All The Best To You Too

[macdo]

And all the best to you too for the coming alarming year!

WRT the demotion issue, its worth pointing out that the balls will all be thrown into the air again in mid Jan and depending on how many have gone for the 'pastures new' option, then we will have the true final figure for demotions etc.

The real worry is when expansion will occur to allow re-promotion and new command upgrades to come along.

see ' Iv'e been an FO for 13 years and I've had enough' thread a bit further down.

My crystal ball reckons I'll still be having this discussion in 12 months time, but then again.......

[Alexander de Meerkat]

Clearly the TCX situation is a worry to many, and who can blame them for their concerns? Frankly, if I was an FO there and had a chance of a temporary contract with easyJet, I would probably take it right now. None of us have total insight into the future, but my own personal belief is that every single FO who takes a job with us under the 'flexicrew' scheme will be offered a permanent contact within 18 months. That is not guaranteed, but it is a whole lot more guaranteed than the future of Thomas Cook, sadly. That is not to speak ill of the company, who I genuinely wish great success to, but it is an observation of how things look right now. They make pull the cat out of the bag, but I would not want to bet on it. There are many people who deride easyJet, and it undoubtedly has both good and bad points. Nonetheless, apart from BA, right now I cannot think of a place I would sooner be from a job-security perspective - you really could do a whole lot worse.

[macdo]

Alexander, would you though?
There you are, in base of your choice, close to home and kin, 10 years from the bottom of the list in a Unionised airline with a LIFO agreement in place, earning great money(by modern standards (17 pay increments since DOJ)), with a massive benefits package (by modern standards) possibly even flying a nice bit Long Haul, which although mostly bullets, is to nice(ish) places without massive timezone changes, the possibility of interesting secondments each winter, with a management that are reasonable to deal with and largely let you alone, with an excellent training department who actually try to teach you something in the sim, pro-active safety and brilliant crew food, actually that last bits a lie!!!
Seriously, you'd give that up to go Flexi, working you're todger off 365 days a year for the rest of your days. Yes, in the face of redundancy I'd grab it like anything else, but they'll have to drag me away kicking and screaming from my cozy little job at TCX. Aged 25, single with 100k of debt round my neck, its a different answer.
ps, the airline actually makes money and is not a problem, all the issues are with the UK tour operator.

[Lord Amberden]

Dunno about working your todger off. For me, 750 hours/1350 duty hours in 2011.

These days I'd say job security is just about top of the list. You don't get crew food on the dole.

[Robert G Mugabe]

649 hrs and 1355 duty hrs. Slaving away for the orange dollar.;)

[Tyke]

I work for TCX and won't be leaving any time soon - for all of the reasons put forward by macdo. I am very pleased, however, that my son has a permanent contract with EasyJet. It is just a shame that they treat their cadets so badly!

[macdo]

Sorry, don't mis-understand my position, I'm certainly not slagging off Easy or its staff, or even the lifestyle if it suits. My only point is that anyone thinking of bailing out should seriously look at what they are getting into before they jump, like I said, if you're 25 its a different can of beanz! For me 750hrs and 1350 sh duty days would lend even greater weight to staying where I am. You don't need crew food when you are in an early grave either.(meant light heartedly)

[cayotcas]

Macdo
I echo your thoughts entirely we know where we stand and, on the face of it (fingers tightly crossed here) things will not get much worse (thoughts on the pay rise aside)
We've all flown with guys who have known the darker side of previous employers, and the career path we've chosen is littered with ups and downs,
With respect to anyone outside of our current situation the media and rumour control are making it seem like we are doomed .
Time will tell and it seems as long as I've been involved in aviation someone somewhere is about to fail
We are all in the same boat ,some have lifejackets,some are looking for lifejackets!!!

I suspect like most here we chose to work for who we work for,it's still a better job than many until I win the lottery it will do for me !!!
All the best .

[Alexander de Meerkat]

macdo - You are absolutely right about the excellent deal on offer to you at TCX. The $64,000 dollar question is whether there will be an airline around in 2 years time to furnish you with such wonderful facilities. I am a naturally cautious individual, and would be very concerned were I at TCX, but fully accept they may carry on for years to come. People can slag easyJet off all they want (and I know you are not), but the massive selling point as others have mentioned is job security. All the benefits in the world are worth nothing if there is no company to pay them. It is very contentious, but I cannot see a future that involves the legacy carrier terms and conditions for most of us in the airline industry. Inevitably, these types of deals will become less common, but if you have them I fully understand the reluctance to give them up. It is a bit like having a luxury first class cabin on the Titanic - who wants to get into a cold (but very safe) lifeboat if there is a chance the ship will stay afloat? As I say, the big question is whether the ship will stay afloat and I really do not have the answer.

A more interesting case is that of BMI. A number of ex-BMI pilots work for us now, many in very senior positions. The are now watching their former colleagues sweat on the outcome of the BA deal. It may turn out that the BMI guys who stayed are the luckiest guys in aviation - BA security, lifestyle, pay and conditions. Alternatively, they may find themselves in the street, just like their Dan-Air predecessors, with nothing and no one to look after them. The result is as yet unknown, and if they get their BA slots, seniority etc then they will understandably be very full of themselves and say they always knew it would work out staying there. Our ex-BMI guys may inevitably wistfully cast an eye in their direction and think 'if only...'. If however, as may yet happen, they end up being stuffed by their BA 'mates', then I suspect we will be hearing about it for many years to come - just like we have with the Dan-Air pilots.

My overall conclusion is that the aviation industry is a strange combination of the two games, 'Musical Chairs' and 'Snakes and Ladders'. In 'Musical Chairs', the idea is to be on the strongest chair when the music stops. In my view the music is stopping once again, and from where I sit easyJet looks a boring but very strong orange kitchen chair. Thomas Cook looks a beautiful, posh, but very old and unsteady armchair with way too many people wanting to sit on it. I frankly have difficulty seeing that armchair being in one piece by the end of the game. In the game 'Snakes and Ladders' you throw the dice and take your chance. If you get lucky you rush up a huge ladder and if you get unlucky you go down a massive snake, despite being so close to the finish line on Square 99! We all try to map out our futures, but there are sufficient unknowns out there that until we finally retire we really do not know which Company was the best one to be in. As I said, being cautious I rather like easyJet, but genuinely wish the guys/gals at Thomas Cook every success. If they get a better deal than me along the way then that is just great, but looking ahead I do see Square 99 looming up - I very much hope I am wrong. A happy and prosperous New Year to one and all.

[Mr.Bloggs]

Not so simples, Meerkat old chap. Many many TCX pilots are seeking the lifeboat, but there are simply not so many jobs about. (Experienced pilots are often viewed with mistrust by selection panels for various reasons). So a number I know have been unsuccessful in even gaining interviews through no real fault of their own. The packages if selected are of course much lower than the existing pay. Twas ever thus. So an SFO with 10 years experience is not going to be paid anything like their current package. But this has not deterred many, to the best of my knowledge.

There are the guys over 55. Despite anti-ageist legislation, they are not getting interviews either. Difficult to prove anything there.


All I am saying is that the choice is not as easy as "Do I stay or do I go?". More folk wish to leave than are able.

[Alexander de Meerkat]

Mr. Bloggs - I have no doubt that is the case. Although not directly involved in the recruiting process myself, I understand that we have looked at a significant number of TCX pilots who are destined for redundancy and made job offers to them. From where I sit, these pilots are a gift to us that we should snap up immediately, long before touching any cadets. I have no idea of the numbers involved, but hope we have taken as many as possible. A difficult situation indeed - I truly wish all the pilots facing difficult and uncertain times at your company the very best of luck in obtaining more secure employment.

[SR71]

I understand that we have looked at a significant number of TCX pilots who are destined for redundancy and made job offers to them

I'm curious....proper permanent jobs on full EZY T&C's?