Thomas Cook Airlines operating Grenada & Tobago

[CaribJet]

Eff 04Jan 2012 TCX will operate A330 flights LGW-GND-TAB-LGW for 9 weeks every Wednesday. Apparently this is on behalf of Monarch. Does anyone know if this means Monarch will pull its Caribbean Longhaul or is this just an extra long time for maintenance?

[Alloy]

ZB's 330s are doing MOD work.

[jabird]

Do they not also do MBJ + other long haul work - (SFB) etc. Wouldn't MOD work tie up the fleet year round?

[renort]

Another hair-brained scheme cooked up in the land of no accountability (also known as Crawley) no doubt sold to the board on the basis of 'lucrative' MoD work, except its once again been sold on the cheap.

[Topspotter]

Amazing how for years MON had the reputaion as a very shrewd operator, now they just appear to lurch from one crisis of their own making to another

[StevieW]

The A330s do hardly any long haul work over the Winter anyway, why keep them sitting around and operating four flights a week (between the two aircraft) when they could be earning elsewhere.

Makes sense to me.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

The only other current long haul on the A330 are GOI.

[Topspotter]

Sadly its people like you stevie w that decide to lease aircraft out to the MOD and then suddenly find out you needed them for your own flying programme ....oh well, never mind we will get TCX to do the work for us at ten times the cost ......:uhoh:..and you wonder why your going down the pan?

[jabird]

The only other current long haul on the A330 are GOA.

You mean GOI (Goa)? GOA = Genoa.

OK, Monarch holidays have 4 Caribbean destinations - TAB & GND as mentioned, Cuba with VS as I thought, MBJ is also with them, I thought it was operated by MON.

How many routes are there for the MOD - Falklands is year round, steady, traditionally operated using their own Tristars, who else has done it recent years - Globespan (pre-bust), Air Seychelles retreating as discussed on that thread. I would presume Afghanistan is still a military operation?

Maybe the MOD contract is good money, but it seems a bit haphazard to contract for this having already sold tickets on your own airline. Still, I imagine 95% of people on these routes are taking a package, so they won't be bothered by the airline operating the flight.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Thanks for the correction.
The MOD flights are ad hoc flights to various areas of the world and are obtained to fit into our flying program.
Monarch have obviously Topspotter, taken into account availability and at what cost operating these flights will be.
My guess and l am no rocket scientist, is that if operating one LGW-GND-TAB-LGW flight, stops you operating a series of MOD flights, l think it might be a no-brainer. :ugh:
Plus it helps out poor old TCX during its hard times. :E

[Egon Maybach]

Sorry to take you to task, as you are not responsible I know, but some people are still being fooled.

Monarch have obviously Topspotter, taken into account availability and at what cost operating these flights will be.
- Are you 100% sure about this?

The past few years have seen the returns on MoD work diminish significantly as operators from all corners of the globe chase a slice of the pie that was once lucrative. Any business secured today is for the lowest possible return imaginable.

The MOD flights are ad hoc flights to various areas of the world and are obtained to fit into our flying program. - No they dont otherwise this thread wouldnt exist!!!


Anyway this is all missing the big point. The Monarch 'Sales' department has had the last 18 months to plan and sell a flying programme for all aircraft including the flagship A330 fleet.

There IS business out there, dont let anyone tell you there isn't, there are numerous brokers who probably read this who will tell you they can't get quotes, even when Monarch have availability, because the person in charge can't and won't work with brokers. Therefore any other adhoc or more lucrative series or lease work has continued to pass Monarch by. They would rather scoop up the Charter equivalent of the 'last turkey in the shop on Christmas Eve' in picking up some adhoc MoD work, and farm out other booked flying and put money in another operators pockets.

Topspotter puts it better than I ever could
Amazing how for years MON had the reputaion as a very shrewd operator, now they just appear to lurch from one crisis of their own making to another

The hard working crews, ops, engineering staff etc deserve better.

[New T2 Office]

I've been flying a/c for MON for nearly 25 years now, I've seen many commercial decisions made over that time, some I puzzled over, most I didn't.......because I just fly the things, I certainly have never felt qualified to criticise these decisions made by others....but it has also amused me how many others (fellow pilots, and also 'experts' on here) do so.......they must be so successful in their own particular field of expertise....that they have all this spare capacity to point MON in the right direction!!!!

Mr @ SpottyM.......I agree!!



Happy New Year to all

[StevieW]

Monarch have done MoD work for years, this isn't a case of them 'chasing a slice of the pie'.

I'm not sure how this is any different to airlines leasing aircraft for Hajj use, which Monarch, Thomas Cook and Thomson (amongst others) do every year. Its making use of a fleet that would otherwise sit on the tarmac over the winter months.

One flight can easily been transferred between MON and TCX, its timing remains the same, the aircraft type operating it remains the same - both airlines are happy and nobody else notices a difference.

oh well, never mind we will get TCX to do the work for us at ten times the cost ......

Monarch and Thomas Cook do flying for each other every season. I'm sure the 'deal' was cost effective for both parties.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Am l sure, the answer is no, but l can have an educated guess that they are.
I am pretty sure we would not go chasing MOD flights if we were making a loss on them.
OK, l am sure you are correct in the returns are not as good as they used to be, l am happy this is the case because l am paying for these flights.
Commercial are continuously asking engineering if we can move a hangar check by a day or so, this to fit in a extra MOD charter. I am sure we would not be doing this if no profit can be made.
Remember parking an a/c for days on end can be very expensive at some of the airports we operate from.
So remember this cost can also be factored into the returns we get for the add hoc flying.
I believe that only one A330 was available for series flying this winter, this because of the Hajj commitment and down time for "C" checks.
The extra MOD flights for the A330 were not arranged months ago and remember the LGW-GND-TAB-LGW is a year round series.
I am sure MON got a reasonable deal with TCX as they have had from us in the past, operating A330 flights for them for one reason or other.

[Egon Maybach]

Interesting. PPRuNe as we all know if full of threads questioning pilots decision making in a crisis, ie Air Blue and AF447 threads running currently as just two examples.

So let's not get precious about questioning the ability of a group of people that have navigated this airline towards a proverbial mountain.

If you got the letter about your pension this morning you'll understand.

[New T2 Office]

Indeed.....I find the opinions/comments/criticisms vented by folk who dont fly a/c for a living, fairly insulting (I should probably stop reading free-for-all internet forums I suppose, they seem to attract large numbers of armchair experts!!!)

I imagine people in other positions feel the same......................

[Topspotter]

Oh right, so the only people qualified to comment on all aspects of things aviation are only those who only skill is being able drive the things ...quite amazing.:D

[New T2 Office]

Sorry, I meant to imply any comments/criticisms made by non pilots with regard to the operation on the a/c (ie, my specific job)

I find forums to be full of 'experts' who are always willing to provide all the answers to our issues..............if we have so much expertise, I wonder why the industry is in the state it is!!!!!

[Topspotter]

Fair point, it certainly is true that many on here for whom the nearest they get to the sharp end is via the lens of their binos or evesdroping on R/T are also amazingly knowledgable pilots/ engineers/ ATC etc etc

[purplehelmet]

Fair point, it certainly is true that many on here for whom the nearest they get to the sharp end is via the lens of their binos or evesdroping on R/T are also amazingly knowledgable pilots/ engineers/ ATC etc etc
the nearest you get to the sharp end is the pencil on your desk in the recruitment office you work in.

[Chidken Sangwich]

I'm not sure how this is any different to airlines leasing aircraft for Hajj use, which Monarch, Thomas Cook and Thomson (amongst others) do every year.

Thomson didnt send any Aircraft to the Haj this year.

One flight can easily been transferred between MON and TCX, its timing remains the same, the aircraft type operating it remains the same - both airlines are happy and nobody else notices a difference.

In this case maybe, but had I booked to go to GOI direct on the A332 and I got shunted onto an A300 with a tech-stop in KWI I certainly wouldnt be 'happy'.

oh well, never mind we will get TCX to do the work for us at ten times the cost...... Monarch and Thomas Cook do flying for each other every season. I'm sure the 'deal' was cost effective for both parties.

I can't see it being 10 times the cost, but you can bet MON wont be making a profit on sub-chartering these flights out.