Request for info on flying an Auster.

[Centaurus]

I have the opportunity to fly an Auster next week. It is well nigh 50 years since I last flew one and naturally have forgotten the essential speeds etc.

I would greatly appreciate if someone could list the take off and landing speeds of the Auster, plus fuel tank capacity and fuel consumption, best gliding speed, flap limit speeds, starting the engine procedure, stall speeds and in fact any general hints on flying the aircraft. :ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hi Mr 'C',

Don't have to worry too much about the fuel - you can see the gauges in the internal wing roots - mechanical gauges / sight glass, so no real problems.

Consumption around 7 gals per hr IF I remember rightly.

Should you have to have the prop 'swung' to start, then a 'rehearsal' with the swinger would be beneficial to you both.

I operate the Tiger Moth with the Gipsy Major, so I guess the Auster is similar.
I flew the original Austers about 40 something years ago, and the last one around 20 yrs ago - and it had a Lycoming!! (There is a god!)
Don't forget the mechanical heel operated brakes.....Unless its been 'modernised'...

Brakes etc, chocks etc, away from other acft for the prop wash etc....

1- Prime the carby till a little run-off occurs - not onto dry grass....

2-Throttle closed, switches OFF, 4 pulls thru in the 'normal direction' of rotation to prime.

3-Throttle WIDE open, switches OFF, 8 pulls 'backwards'.

4-Throttle closed - then 'SET' (About 1/4inch open..) FRONT switch ON, - Impulse mag on front mag only - 'Clear Prop', and your 'prop swinger' Swings the prop - preferably from behind the prop with the left arm, so that he can pull it DOWN sharply, thru the mag impulse point, and is covered by the engine cowls from any further contact with same....
And it should cough into life.
Rear Mag switch -ON
Oil press rising.....
Any signs of fire - OPEN the THROTTLE and 'Suck it thru'...STICK "BACK"....

My 'Tiger' starts first time every time like that.

On applying the power for T/O..LEFT Foot forward - especially as you rotate the stick forward to raise the tail.

Disclaimer - should your Auster have a different engine, then the above may or may not apply.
And apols if all of this sounds very 'basic', but you did ask....

'Rotsa Ruck'..!!

Cheers:ok:

[scrambler]

Spend some time with the aircraft pilot operating handbook, sit in the aircraft before the flight become familiar with the 3 point attitude and location of controls, levers etc.

[tail wheel]

Good on you Centaurus! :ok:

And don't forget the Auster that got away at Bankstown and took the Navy to dispose of! :}

[Sunfish]

Give Doug Sprigg a call at Arkaroola resort - he owns one and uses it still (if the mousies haven't eaten the spar and Fabric yet.)


Phone: (08) 8648 4848
Fax: (08) 8648 4846

Email: [email protected]

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

any general hints on flying the aircraft.

Yeah - go fly something else! :E

The Auster is the LEAST enjoyable aeroplane I have ever flown. Did my initial tailwheel endorsement in a J5B and towed gliders with same. Also flew J1B and J5F.

Dr :8

[Horatio Leafblower]

Flown a couple of hundred hours in a combination of C185, 180, Citabria, Decathlon, Chippies and Thrusters.

F%^ing Auster is the only one I've ground looped :O
...no damage thank heavens. (...then the Hangar doors collapsed in a storm and flattened the f%^&ing thing). :D

(nb: Technically the "student" ground looped it, but he was taught to fly in Austers in the Army exactly 50 years earlier and I let my guard down :( )

[Frank Arouet]

Austers are easy to fly but they are hard to land. The application of flap involves the bodily functions of a chimpanzee and stalls with full flap and power always result in a sharp wing drop. My J1B had a 28KT stall speed, and one had to plan every landing without use of stick shoving as most nosewheel drivers do normally. Anything but back pressure on the stick is a recipe for disaster. There is no need to stay off the brakes as they are useless anyway.

On take off, one had to judge when to apply forward stick because too soon put down pressure on the mains thus increasing your take off roll from 22 Yards (a cricket pitch), to about 30 yards.

Climb out dictates accurate ASI monitoring as the prior mentioned stall speed and uncomfortable results with power.

They can be refuelled in mid air by opening the door and shoving a hose in the belly tank so a siphon from the drum in the back is possible. Check temperature prior because an overflow will freeze your hand and it is difficult to screw the cap back on. (this is not an approved operation, but who is going to stop you).

My P3 compass was mounted top of the windscreen with a mirror and took a bit of getting used to. Tiger pilotss had it much better in this regard.

Oh, one last thing. Get used to the pre stall buffett, it's the only warning you get. Treat the aircraft with respect and you will enjoy every minute you fly it. Those who openly hate Austers usually had a nasty experience and gave up.

[LeadSled]

Folks,

A a wonderful chap, now long gone, RAF Wing Commander Gordon Carey remarked after he checked me out in Austers many moons ago ( in a teddibly teddibly RAF Officer accent):

" You realise, my dear young fellow, that the Auster will never replace the aeroplane".

In the late '1920s through mid 1930s, Gordon was CFI of the Royal Bengal Flying Club, where young gentlemen presenting themselves to learn to fly brought their own aeroplane ---- flown at that stage, of course, by one of daddy's pilots.

On successful completion of the flying course ( about every two years) said young gentlemen would fly in a gaggle across all the red bits on the map, to RAF Cranwell, to be transformed into RAF officers and gentlemen.

Gordon's other views on Austers was unprintable.

Don't forget, most aircraft have a shock absorbing undercarriage, an Auster has a shock resisting undercarriage.

You can always tell a long time Auster pilot, left arm like a gorilla (from the flap lever) and no fingernails on the right hand (from the exposed gears in the trim handle).

The "ultimate Auster" was the Airdale, a trike U/C and 180HP Lycoming ---- just about doubled the fuel consumption for an increase in speed of not much more than zilch, and if you were not real careful in a x-wind, it would "fall over".

Frank is right, take it real carefully ---- they are flyable ----- if you are a real pilot, not just a spam can driver.

Tootle pip!!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

if you are a real pilot,hehehehehehehehehehe

Methinks Leadie doesn't know of you, Centaurus:)

Merry Christmas, JL:ok:

[LeadSled]

Oz,
I made no comment about Centaurus, if he or she is a real pilot, whatever Auster he or she will be flying will be no more difficult that it was 50 or so years ago.
As for many "younger" pilots, any tail wheel aircraft seems to present a major challenge, seeing as keeping the "ball in the middle" is a foreign concept, and rudder pedals are not just footrests.
Tootle pip!!

[Captain Dart]

Lead, I can assure you that Centaurus is a 'real pilot', probably more 'real' than you or I could ever hope to be.

My first solo was on an Auster, and most of the above comments are accurate.

And I can't take it any more, it's 'toodle pip'!

[Frank Arouet]

Centaurus may well be a "real pilot" but by his own admission It is well nigh 50 years since I last flew one

Which makes him non current on type and one can appreciate his special airmanship attributes by asking for some memories by those more current.

The comments offered were done so in the spirit of this engagement.

If his invitation was to solicit comment for ridicule by boofhead spam can drivers I wouldn't have bothered.

[tinpis]

Indeed
Remember the silly awkward bloody flap handle.
Great intro to pommy aircraft.
Designed to Defeat

[Arm out the window]

It is well nigh 50 years since I last flew one and naturally have forgotten the essential speeds etc

Good on you, Centaurus - I hope one day I'll get the opportunity to fly a type I last got into 50 years previously. Good to see.



I made no comment about Centaurus, if he or she is a real pilot

Leadsled, do you never read any posts bar your own? Centaurus has a good deal of cred.

Merry Christmas all, anyway.

[Centaurus]

Thank you, gentlemen for the kind words and invaluable advice. Have had one experience at ground-looping a tail-dragger and that was a pointy wing Hornet Moth at Darwin. Most embarrassing considering I was the instructor. Scraped fabric off the wing tip which wasn't too bad considering we went around and around through at least 360 degrees. Good job Darwin had a very wide runway:E

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

It is well nigh 50 years since I last flew one
Its only 27 yrs since I last flew an Auster - wish it WAS nigh 50 years!

Dr :8

[aroa]

OK, they might be a bit more "tricky" but that's the challenge of aviation isnt it, learning to get a "handle " on something and enjoy the doing of it?
I think its called " keeping yr hand in", and in the Auster case, yr feet as well.

Bush Pilots Airways / "Bushies" had plenty of them pottering around the wilds of Cape York for yonks, and served them very well.

I guess if the bungee u/c had a damper in the system somehow, it might aleviate the "sproing!!" if you touch down too early....or too late. :sad:

Currently peddling a J2, 90 hp Cont... hardly pulls the skin off a rice pudding, but its the most idiot-simple, dinky machine with 2 wings.
Its the 'no flaps' bit for a landing...needs a bit of extra drag from somewhere.

Re the Darwin pirouette... If departing off a runway, I always try and land back on the grass..tis said the extra drag on the tail wheel helps.??
So far, so good.
Happy touch downs..... and roll outs for 2012..! :ok:

[aroa]

for Centaurus, original post...

Auster J5/F and Gipsy Major.

Wing tanks 16 gal Imp/72lts a side Use abt 7gal/hr 31 lts

Off the ground at 45-50 kts. Climb at 60 Crz at 90 / 1850 rpm

Down wind at 60. Glide 60-55. Short final 50-55 depending on conditions.

Stall Flaps down 28 kts. Flaps up Stall 36 kts

Short fielder app.. 45-40

THAT Flap handle.... Reach up with the right hand, grab the hand grip and push up slightly but firmly to 'unload' the notch the handle is engaged in.
THEN move the hand grip forward to un-notch the lever, and pull down to the next notch/ flap setting as reqd.
Practice on the ground to get the hang of it, as then the flaps are not "loaded" with the airstream forces.

Have fun...!! :ok:

[Centaurus]

Thanks Aroa:ok: Any idea what the go-around procedure is from the full flap bounce:E

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

As with any other acft Mr 'C',

POWER ON FULL, keep the nose down till ya gets ya speed (relatively speakin' - we are in an Auster after all...) 'milk' the flaps up and climb(?) awawaaayyy...

Smile 'sheepishly' - Pacify ya passenger, and try again!

Cheers:ok:

[aroa]

As per Griffos. I second that.

Full flap on the Auster means heaps of drag. In gusty conditions... second notch of flap will suffice for the ldg.
Enjoy.!

[tinpis]

About the only hairyplane the Kiwis never put a hopper in (I stand to be corrected)

I know someone had a propellor jump off.

[Frank Arouet]

tinpis;

Check your PM's.

[tinpis]

I has been corrected. Several were used for topdressers mostly in the South Island where many things were accomplished by brave men.

[aroa]

put a hopper in one and had a go at the crop spraying business on the Atherton Tablelands.
Things came unstuck nr Mareeba where the pilot hit a tree and terminated himself. BPD ? eventually got rebuilt but after that sad event, Bushies gave that line of business up.

As the saying goes... there a two types of Ag pilots, the very good and the very dead. Vale 'Fred'

Auster Ltd did do a croppie, the "Agricola" ( Latin for bomb?) :eek: Not sure how many were built or what they were like to fly.
Anyone know more??? Any come to Oz.?
Did see the Percival EP 9 at PFD... same market. I believe one is still airworthy in Na Zilan.

[tinpis]

Cant help but post this pretty one.Typically a Kiwi has found something dangerous to do with it :hmm:

auster at work - YouTube

[tail wheel]

The Auster B8 Agricola was a commercially unsuccessful British agricultural aircraft designed for the aerial topdressing market which opened up in New Zealand in the early 1950s.

The aircraft was utilitarian rather than attractive; one web site has short-listed the Agricola in a competition for the ugliest aircraft of all time.

Obviously not aware of the Transavia Airtruk!

First flight 1955. 260 HP Continental engine. Nine built, one survives.

[LeadSled]

Centaurus,
The the taper wing Hornet Moth, that's why most that survive have been re-winged with DH-82 wings.
Given the sometimes vicious tip stall common to "those beautiful DH tapered wings", especially if the rigging was a bit out --- which was just about always, probably because the temperature and humidity on the day, was not the same as when the aircraft was last rigged, I long ago decided that the ground loop like you experienced was not really a ground loop at all, but the first turn of a spin, fortuitously arrested by mother earth.
Who remembers the good old days when the exercise was not "stall and recover practice", but "stalling and spin recovery", competence in the latter required before first solo.
Tootle pip!!

[Old but not bold]

Firstly Hornet Moths came in two models; DH87A and B. One had tapered wings the other had squared wing tips, not Tiger Moth wings.

Austers were easy to fly but hard to fly well, in came down to the Pilot not the aeroplane.

The Auster came in a myriad of models so very hard to generalize.
Most had 36 foot wing span and tendered to float on landing, if touch down came too early the tail dropped and they wanted to fly again (Bounces). A quick touch of forward stick glued them down well. The 32 foot span Austers such as the J5f that I once owned was one of best aerobatic A/C I have flown, Approach speeds varied but much slower than modern tinnys. Flying slowly was an Auster's party trick, Captain Jack Ellis (ex TAA) used to demo to us slow flight at around 23 knots (Don't try that at home).

Centaurus your first name wouldn't be Graham by any chance?

Tail wheels beat training wheels anytime, cheers.

[LeadSled]

Old etc.,

I stand by what I said, the several taper wing Hornet Moth's I have been "involved with" over the years were re-winged ---- with the later wings, if you want to put it that way, there probably were minor changes.

Nevertheless they were always referred to as "Tiger" wings, including by DH in the UK., and by Rollasons of Croyden, Surrey, who did many of the mods. on DH aircraft in the UK.

I am speaking of the early 1960's, not the production changes of the '30's.

Tootle pip!!

PS: I don't know what aerobatic (or as CASA prefers, that 'orrible word acrobatic) aircraft you have flown, but if the J5F was one of the better, you must have flown some odd aircraft.

I never did understand why DCA demanded a separate endorsement for the J5F, and none of the Examiners of that era seemed to know either, it "just was". Maybe Sir Donald Anderson got bitten by one??

[Ocean Person]

" Roma Aerial Service " based in Roma mid Queensland operated an Auster on Brigalow spraying. ( Brigalow is tree type scrub that grows to about 15 feet or so ) There was a 40 gallon tank in the area behind the pilot and the propeller was ultra fine fixed pitch. If I remember correctly it was 3'7" which gave plenty of get up and go but a cruising speed of less than 70 knots. The Auster did the job OK but one had to be sure the take off distance available was adequate because when fully loaded the tail was reluctant to come up. Once in the flying attitude she accelerated quickly but there was always a feeling of " heavyness " until at least half the load was spread.
The spray used was a mixture of diesel oil and a hormone called 245-T which later became known as Agent Orange. !!! But that is another story.

OP.

[jas24zzk]

Cant help but post this pretty one.Typically a Kiwi has found something dangerous to do with it

You mean to say flying one isn't dangerous enough? :E

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Leadie,
Re My endorsement 'Auster except J5F' -
I was led to believe at the time it was because of an alleged 'viscious' stall in which a wing would / could(?) drop suddenly and 'catch' the uninitiated unawares....
Something to do with the 'clipped wings'..(?)
:ok:

[LeadSled]

ExFSO Griffo,

That's exactly as my original endorsement was written, when all the types were written across from my UK Board (Bored) of Trade (long before the CAA) license, when an Oz license was first issued.

As I had never heard of the differentiation in the UK, hence the question, and a variety of non-answers. Seems the problem, like many other perceived aviation problems, only happen (ed) in Australia.

Same same the Chipmunk spinning problems, never was a problem in the UK, and none of the UK registered Chippies I ever flew had anti-spin strakes fitted. Then again, we religiously completed the pre-aerobatic check, especially item (1) --- Brakes Off.

Must be a Coriolis effect??

Tootle pip!!

[flywatcher]

My Australian licence, early sixties, was endorsed the same, Auster except J5F. I could never understand the difference so did the normal thing for the early sixties and took no notice, flew the J5F just like any other Auster. I remember one Auster, haven't got the log books handy for the type, Mk 1?, AOP 1?, certainly not a J1B, wooden prop, quick 90 degree turn to the right if you closed the throttle quickly, no adjustment on the seat so if you have long legs remove the cushion from the seat back and you immediately saw double if you leaned back and touched the metal cross bar. I thought all Austers were uncivilised but this one excelled in the having no basic good points, you wrestled with the flap lever over your head and waved the long control cloumn around over what seemed and incredible amount of space to make anything much happen. Haven't flown one for as long as I can remember and don't really care if I don't fly one again.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
So far, nobody has mentioned those wonderful heel brakes!!
Tootle pip!!

[tinpis]

brakes
Got them on Cub too, fortunately don't work too well.....

[FourStar]

I flew a few different Austers. The best was VH-SCO a J5 fitted with Lycoming 0435 and variable pitch prop. Wing Tanks and a belly tank. Metal skin on the fuselage and seeding hopper fitted with an agitator. It performed like a rocket.

http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austmz/VH-SCO.html]VH-SCO.html

[Frank Arouet]

nobody has mentioned those wonderful heel brakes!!

Most Austers had the distinction of being the only tailwheel aeroplane you could land with the brakes ON!

The Instructors rote; "heels on the floor not on the brakes", was a wasted phrase.

In a way of redeeming the type however, the switches were placed so a normal port rear prop swing gave one a fleeting opportunity to kill the beast if it started with too many rev's.

I believe as one should ride a motorcycle for 12 months before the issue of a drivers licence, (to see if you can survive of course), one should also be forced to go solo in the Auster before granting a pilot licence.

[aroa]

Are they just meant to ease you up, as you slowly approach the chocks?
Sure dont seem much good for anything else.!

They were pretty ineffective in the normal wheel Austers... in the J2 they are even smaller and less effective. The tiny shoes are like bits out of a kids toy. Steerable tailwheel is all when taxying....slowly. Its almost like being in Tiger with no brakes at all, and not having the drag of the tail skid either.

J5/F.ditto with the licence thing in the good old days.
A nippy ship, landed really slowly with full flap, never encountered any viciousness in the stall, seemed to stay down more positively on touch down-less wing, less lift? than the big wingers. A good Auster. :ok:
Suppose if you had brakes that really grabbed the wheels, there would be more nose overs. The weakness prob a blessing in disguise....until you need an emergeny pull up ! :eek:

[Frank Arouet]

A Scott tailwheel made them a better aeroplane on the ground.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Re -"nobody has mentioned those wonderful heel brakes!! "

You must have 'skimmed' over it - see post #3.

Ref your 'Chippy' Leadie,

I never flew one with those strakes until very recently (relatively speakin') and did all my initial training in Chippys at RACNSW, which included many spins of course.

Later instructed on a couple of them in WA - spins part of the 'norm', sans strakes.

Now have easy access to a Chippy WITH strakes, and some 40 odd years later, spin it regularly, and I THINK it spins at a 'faster rate of turn' than I remember, (?) although usually 4 complete turns was enough as the climb back up took hrs / $$'s....

Cheers:ok:

[LeadSled]

Ex FSO Griffo,
RACNSW lost at least two Chipmunks in spins, one with Arthur Kell on board. As the investigation determined, a two bob bit under floor had jammed part of the rudder, as I recall.

Speaking of debris under floor, the late Ray McLean had an interesting experience at Moree, a 6 inch steel rule part jammed the controls ---- all he was able to do was fly in a continuous turn, with what aileron and rudder he had jammed in corners, so it took quite a while to position so that the aeroplane arrived in the middle of the aerodrome at ground level. Fortunately, as I recall the only additional damage was a tyre, and grass stains under one wingtip.

The other RACNSW ---- the brakes were found two or three notches on --- the takeoff setting. It's a bit hazy now, but I think they might have lost a third --- somebody spinning spinning into Lake Macquarie seems to ring a bell ??? Anybody??

An inverted spin in a Chipmunk could get distinctly uncomfortable, and an upright spin could flatten if you left it a bit long to recover.

Speaking of McLean --- his views on Austers was very definite, he was not a fan.
Tootle pip!!

[Frank Arouet]

Last Chipmunk I flew at RACNSW, (1976), was VH RSQ, ex H Treloer /Continental of some 235 HP and Instructor one W Lord. (bless his soul). I never got back into aerobatics until VH KDE with one K Endacott (1977). (bless his soul). But I had the prior fortune of being PIC with one pax, R McLean, (bless his soul), who seemed unconcerned with scud running, being asleep at the time. That was a C 172. (Full stop), not the A model, but the original 1956 VH MUG that was wet hired at $10 per hour private via Business Aviation, Marion St Bankstown. Circa Ray Coustley.

But back to the Treloer Chipmunk, it had an electric starter which saved one from that right hand upward swing on the Gypsy. I always thought that slightly peculiar. However it only had about 40 minutes of cruise given the fuel tank capacity. There are obviously trade off's everywhere.

[Dora-9]

LeadSled:

At the risk of getting OT (this is an being an Auster forum), just to set the record straight:

“The RAC of NSW lost at least two Chipmunks in spins…”

Yes, but only the two:

1. VH-RSJ on 12.9.1963, Student Pilot (29 hours) failed to recover from a spin with the aircraft crashing near Bringelly NSW.

2. VH-FTA on 27.1.1968. This was the infamous Arthur Kell accident, with the aircraft crashing near Camden NSW. However, the suspicion was that the “two bob bit” had jammed in the control column saddle housing restricting forward elevator movement, i.e. nothing to do with a rudder restriction. I deliberately choose the word suspicion, as DCA were, despite test flying another Chipmunk to simulate the elevator restriction, unable to prove this. Their words: “It would appear the control column had been jammed”.

“I think they may have lost a third…” Possibly you’re thinking of VH-RSR which is recorded as having ditched into Lake Macquarie on 10.4.1961 following an engine failure, which doesn’t sound like a spinning accident though, does it? Well, not unless it all went terribly wrong...

[Super Cecil]

I'm sure one (Chippie) spun into the ground in Northern NSW in around 1963

[Dora-9]

Super Cecil:

Can you be more specific?

I checked the fates of all RAC of NSW Chipmunks before I made my last posting; it certainly wasn't one of their aircraft.

A quick trawl reveals two possibles, i.e. spinning accidents in NSW in the approximate time frame:

1. VH-BVR, spun in near Goulburn, NSW,19.1.1957.
2. VH-DBI, described as "Spiraled into a paddock...", Armidale NSW, 15.4.1962

[Super Cecil]

DBI I recon

[LeadSled]

Dora 9,
Thanks for that. Contemporary reports, at the time, suggested the Lake accident occurred during the aircraft doing aerobatics, around the RACNSW clubhouse at the time, it was accepted that the aircraft spun in ( I refreshed my memory by asking several who were also members at the time).

Arthur Kell was a very interesting bloke. He was one of the original Dam Buster pilots, as I recall he was part of the first dam raids. WWII didn't put a scratch on him, but a lousy control problem got him.

He was a bloke who really loved instructing, and was a very good teacher, which is not quite the same thing as holding an instructor's rating and purporting to teach people to fly.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Thread "DRIFT".......Apols etc

Hi 'Leadie', and 'Dora'........:-)

I think you may find that dear old Arthur was one of the 'Dambusters' Squadron, but not actually one of the 'dambusters', - he having joined the Squadron some time after the famous dambusting raids....

I had the pleasure of flying with the man whilst doing my PPL navs with RACNSW (Dec '64) , and, YES, he did indeed ENJOY imparting his knowledge - but in a GOOD SENSE - and am familiar with the story of his unfortunate demise.
I also have 'time' in 'FTA', but not with Arthur.

He was invited to fly as part of the crew, the old ex 'French' Lancaster, ex Noumea, which was stored at BK for a while. back to the UK.

I am led to believe that the coin which jammed the control column, inside the leather sleeve, prevented the full FORWARD movement of same, causing the inevitable end.

Sad - a VERY NICE man......

We also had another 'incident' with a Fk-27, near Mudgee, which caused the 'Area QNH' system to be introduced....but that's another story.....

And, another 'story'...did my CPL and INSTR ratings with the 'Wonderful Mr McLean'.....at what was then 'Aircraft Rentals' at BK......Couldn't have had better..!!
:ok::ok::ok:

Cheers
:ok:

[LeadSled]

---he having joined the Squadron some time after the famous dambusting raids....

Ex-FSO Griffo,
It's a long time since I read it, probably 60 years, but my memory tells me that there is a picture of Arthur Kell, with the whole Squadron, in one of the plates in Paul Brickhill's book The Dambusters --- and the picture was taken just before the first raids.

As we now know, the original squadron list did not have one single pom, this was too much for Bomber Command, who demanded that the Squadron Leader (subsequently Gibson) and the Flight Commanders had to be locals, and not from "Commonwealth" squadrons.

Anybody got a copy handy, to check??

Tootle pip!!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hi 'Leadie'

In all of the time I knew Arthur, he never did mention that he was involved in the dam raids, only that he served in 617 'later'......

The following link would seem to support this...

Untitled Page (http://www.dambusters.org.uk/Crews1.html)

Regards:ok:

[kaz3g]

"My Australian licence, early sixties, was endorsed the same, Auster except J5F. I could never understand the difference so did the normal thing for the early sixties and took no notice, flew the J5F just like any other Auster. I remember one Auster, haven't got the log books handy for the type, Mk 1?, AOP 1?, certainly not a J1B, wooden prop, quick 90 degree turn to the right if you closed the throttle quickly, no adjustment on the seat so if you have long legs remove the cushion from the seat back and you immediately saw double if you leaned back and touched the metal cross bar. I thought all Austers were uncivilised but this one excelled in the having no basic good points, you wrestled with the flap lever over your head and waved the long control cloumn around over what seemed and incredible amount of space to make anything much happen. Haven't flown one for as long as I can remember and don't really care if I don't fly one again."[/I]

Not one real Auster pilot amongst all the posters, apparently.

There were many different variations in the Auster during its production lifetime. Some had wing tanks, some had a tank behind the firewall and some had belly tanks as an extra fuel supply (even these varied in capacity). A whole series (mark V) was built with the Lycoming 0-290 rather than the Gipsy.

Some stalled with full flap as low as 24 knots and some a bit faster. Some had an 11 knot max demonstrated x-wind component and some only 9 knots. You have to know the aircraft you are flying because there are differences much the same as C172 or PA28.

The annual Auster flyin is on at Leeton (Brobinah) this weekend and 14 beautiful Austers are gathered on the field along with about 30 other types for some fun. We enjoy our aircraft and they keep us honest. We aren't just bus drivers, we actually have to fly them.

And if it all turns to clay we can put them down on a tiny bit of dirt at not much more than a walking pace and remain well-protected by our steel aeroplane.

Kaz

VH-BYM

[aroa]

'Not one real Auster pilot among all the posters, apparently."

Bit of a broad tar bush there..!

Ive had 3 Austers in my time and loved 'em all... each one unique :ok:

J5 P Autocar got me from UK to Oz without a scratch and was a thorough intro into the "intricacies" and foibles of the Auster. You learn by doing !!

J5 F Aiglet trainer. Rebuild project from the scrap heap, and a bloody good feeling machine to fly. More agile than the long wingers.

And lastly, the pensioners model... the J2 Arrow. The name might give the impression of swiftness...not so. Idiot simple and a delight to fly.
The Continental C-90 might not pull the knickers off a nympho by it does help to defy gravity in leisurely style.
Auster are STICK and RUDDER aeroplanes..!
Those that DONT like Austers..IMHO havent spent the TIME and EFFORT in getting to REALLY know what they're all about.
"Difficult" I know..but there's the challenge :ok:

[Tee Emm]

My P3 compass was mounted top of the windscreen with a mirror

What is the main differences between the P3 compass mentioned here and the P4 compass and P8 compass? I think the Lancaster Mk 4 had a P8 which is what I thought a Tiger Moth had, too.

[kaz3g]

Hello aroa and I apologise if you thought my comment was directed at you.

I was reading some older threads and found a whole lot of negative comments about the Auster from people who obviously had no real experience in them.

They are an amazing little machine and very survivable!

Mine has an 0-320 160 hp up front and is a J5D. The airframe was done by KSA who called it an Ajax. It saw service in Germany in 1945 and has just ticked up 1040 hours TT.

We had a great weekend at Leeton. Lots of flying, no mishaps and heaps of fun. The next one will be at Luskintyre in 12 months time so come along if free and join in the war stories.

Kaz

[kaz3g]

P8 in the Tiger. I know where one is for sale if interested.

Kaz

[aroa]

You're right. so many comments from folk who love to hate / hate to love the Auster...but only because they have never had one to learn from, or to love and care for. :sad:
Many Classic aeroplanes from the stick and rudder era were deemed to be a handful eg the Cessna 195. Never flown one, but you hear an awful lot of ground looping stories and how "difficult" they are. :{

Bush Pilots Airways in FNQ had a flock of them, rattling away all over the wilds of Cape York and the Gulf country...doing a sterling job in the 50s.

Long may they take the wind.!:ok:

[Walter Atkinson]

I taught myself to fly an Auster (the owner wishes to remain nameless for letting me) and it was a hoot. I went around the patch a few times, did a couple of stalls, then instructed in it.

Other than having to apply left rudder during power application, having to stand on one's head to read the bloody compass, and needing a second elbow in the left forearm to reach the flap handle, what's the big deal?

Brakes? Don't need no steenkin' brakes...

[Albie72]

In regards to the flap.....
The easiest way is to keep your toes on the rudders, grab the control stick with your knees, wait for a smooth bit of air then grab the flap leaver with both hands to extend the flaps. Just watch where your placing your hands as the flap leaver bites!!

[aroa]

If you are flying right hand on throttle lever, left hand on stick...simply transfer your right arm/hand up and across to the lever, above left, onto the flap lever handle

Lift the lever UP slightly..then slide forward the handle....then, pull the lever down and let the handle slide back so the holding pin engages in the required notch of 3....Take-off, 1/2, Full.
Ensure locating pin properly engaged back in the notch. If it isnt the lever may release and the flap can BANG ! back up due to the air load.
You will only do it once..loud noises in flight are scary !
Best if everything is oiled and travels easily. One hand and simple.:ok:

No such hi-techo in the J2....flapless ! :eek:

AUSTERs are GO !

[Fantome]

http://www.3squadron.org.au/books%20ns/raaf%20over%20europe.jpg (http://www.3squadron.org.au/nsbooks.htm)

Arthur Kell for certain did not join 617 SQN till after the dams raid.
In 'RAAF Over Europe' by Frank Johnson, the photos pages at the end of the book include one showing crew togging up for a mission. Arthur is in that photo. He did bomb the 'Tirpitz'

When I mentioned to Arthur that I had this book on my shelves he asked to borrow it. No one likes necessarily to speak unfavourably of the dead, but it took a concerted effort to get the book back, at one stage Arthur telling me on the phone in heated tones that I had given it to him. When he did finally return it I was saddened to see that he had apparently used a razor blade to scratch out
the 'return to' with name etc that I had noted inside the cover.

In my defence, perhaps, all this happened when I was a callow nineteen. I would today, if confronted with a similar situation, and with a man in whatever bloody book as well, avoid any ructions. That's when silence is golden.

One of Arthur's little quirks on a busy day at the old club was to put his head round the flight office door and say "Alright, who's the next biscuit ?"

After the war Arthur flew for Transport Command, where his last posting was on Brittanias. His funeral was at St Phillips in Macquarie Street. Often wondered whether his young son, who would have been about ten at the time, followed in his dad's footsteps at all.

THE AUSTER (Latin for 'south wind')

As with a Tiger, once you take the time to get to know her, settle in after how ever many hours and landings it takes to feel part of the aeroplane, then despite the doughy handling, there's nothing more enjoyable than a sedate trip across open country with oodles of paddocks and lengthy pastures, liesurely studying the passing landscape, not too high and not too low. She's an old lady. Needs to be treated as such.

No big deal really, the flap lever. Once you have the knack, as 'aroa' says, of unloading the aerodynamic force on the lug in the notched arc, its a piece of piss requiring no brute strength at all. Nothing wrong with putting the whole lot down in one go as you turn a finely judged final, throttle fully closed.
A lot of satisfaction getting that right, slipping over the fence to hold off and hold off and hold off, till she settles on the grass, as gentle as a pelican on a lake.

Best way of becoming acquainted with the Auster brigade is do what kaz suggests -

We had a great weekend at Leeton. Lots of flying, no mishaps and heaps of fun. The next one will be at Luskintyre in 12 months time so come along if free and join in the war stories.
Back in the days when pipe smoking pilots were fairly common, many's the Auster pilot who'd pull out his briar on a nice summer's day, slide the window back, and puff his way to Hay, Booligal or anywhere beyond the black stump.

Griffo would know the one about the Auster taxying Wagga for Hay late in the afternoon.

'Wagga this is dah dee dah taxying for Hay'

'Dah dee dah . . Wagga. .. do you think you can make Hay while the sun shines?'

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Aha Mr Fantome,

That ocassion!! - and another from SY Flight Service, FSO was 'GS' on the console, chasing a late position on a VFR aircraft inbound to Hay from Bankstown and last light pending......

Turned around so as to face the room, and in a very good/loud 'stage voice', Shakespearean like - also put the same question......
" ABC, Will you be able to MAKE HAY WHILST THE SUN SHINES.."

The Supervisor - old fart - was NOT amused......but the rest of the room 'broke up' as they say....

Dem good ole days......
:p
.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Similarly, in the earlier Mining Boom days, many an aircraft taxing at Kal for Cue, took great delight in calling 'taxiing KAL, faa Q'....
And the response, under ones breath - not 'on air' of course, was along the lines of.....

Or, ABC, CFM taxiing 'FAA Q ???'
Had to be 'careful' - EVERYTHING was ON TAPE....still, it made life 'enjoyable' at times....

The much quoted phrase amongst 'retired' FSO's, of "Area QNH 1013", means pretty much the same....but with 'love and a smile'....often abbrev to simply 1013 .......

1013 :eek:

= See Ya .....:p

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Apols for drifting a loooong way about flying the Auster......

Cheers :ok:

[Fantome]

oh I don't know Griff. . . . . any diversion should be apples round here. "Are you diverting?" was heard on occasion from the man with his eye on the maggots. It was asked one occasion around 0200 of a NSW air ambulance pilot returning back to base at Mascot. He was dozy, added to which the A/P heading hold was defective.

1013 as a catch phrase recalls to mind what miners on the southern coalfields of NSW used to say when saying cheerio to a mate .. . "Keep your hand on your four and nine". A recent revised award handed down to them had specified
under "Danger Money" the paltry sum of four shillings and ninepence.

You'd have heard some of the stories that used get around in the sixties about that flying padre, name of Petersen ? , who'd go off in his Auster for weeks at a time spreading the word and holding services at remote cattle stations. Would have been in '65 at Wyndham , having a chat to the FSO one fine morning early. Heard outside the aforementioned Auster come to life, followed a short time later by the sight out the window of the taxying plane, from which also came the most unusual scraping sound. Our sky pilot had managed to run over a cone marker which he was now dragging along the nearby section of tarmac. Sounded a bit like finger nails being dragged down a blackboard.

With engine still ticking over, he climbed out, lay down on his back and pushed and kicked the thing free. He then got up, reached inside the Auster to get hold of a big pair of shears, with the aid of which he trimmed off a few bits of ragged fabric and dangly bits. Happy with which he got back in, shortly after disappearing like a man on a mission out across the Kimberleys.

It was his habit to put in a flight plan that specified a sartime that might be not just a nominated time of day but date and time that might be a week away. That would have been a reflection as to his uncertainty about some of those stations and out stations back then that had poor radio phone links or none.

At the main roads camp out at the nine mile east of Wyndham there was a memorable cook. He was a past master with the mouth watering things he could do with a bush turkey that would emerge from his oven done to perfection with a perfect sauce to boot . Served up with a wink and a finger to the lips as a substantial fine was attached to any discovery of this bird being potted.

[kaz3g]

I have a book about the Flying Salvos and Vic got into trouble in his Tigers and Austers more than once. I remember he landed in mangroves off the WA Coast after engine problems and the aircraft was eventually recovered by barge.

He was found by Mission blacks and took it all in his stride.

Turkeys? I had a station in the Upper Gascoyne in the late 70's and our Aboriginal stockmen would shoot one for Christmas and bring it in to be stuffed and cooked. Our local (!) policeman came out to stay with us for a few days and had a nasty accident on the way...a turkey flew up and broke its neck on his HF aerial. He was devastated, of course, and brought the body to us for gentle cremation in the oven :-)

Luskintyre is on at the end of April.

Kaz

Edit: should mention my Auster and I both just turned 70.