Funding CPL- How did you do it? [Archive]

Shifty-Au

23rd Dec 2011, 04:18

Hey Guys,

I am new, so i'm sorry if this is in the wrong section.

I am undertaking flight training at Pearson Aviation, Essendon.
I am wanting to get my CPL and eventually a job, i have been paying as i go but looking ahead at all the rating and endorsements i am going to need it will get expensive.

Me and my wife hold pretty well paying jobs but only being 25 we are saving for our first house.

I am looking for advice on how to pay for this? should i just keep paying as i go? loan? what options are there out there?

Cheers,
Shifty

j3pipercub

23rd Dec 2011, 04:24

Hey Shifty,

Only my opinion, but if you intend on going through to CPL, the chances of staying in metropolitan Melbourne are fairly low, and the salary in the first few years may make it very difficult to service a mortgage.

However, I paid for it over the space of roughly 4 years. Got my PPL and then flew sparingly until I had the lump sum saved for CPL/MECIR/FIR plus a meagre allowance for food etc. Whether this was the right way to go about it, I'll never know :E

j3

SpyderPig

23rd Dec 2011, 04:52

I just finished my CPL 2 days ago (yay!) and did it part time over two years, paying as I went. I have a long term partner but we don't have kids and aren't saving to buy a house because we decided on this path instead. I'm quite close to your age also. Without her help it would of taken me much longer.

It can be done but it'll take a big commitment from both of you. You could do it over a longer period (like J3) which is a very good option I think in your position:)

Best advice is if you really wanna do it, do it! Don't sit back in 10 years wishing every time a plane goes over head. An instructor rating could keep you on the city, but don't get into that unless you really want to instruct, your just short changing the next crop of pilots coming through.

poteroo

23rd Dec 2011, 05:57

PAYG may be 'old fashioned', but it forces you to be frugal, to scrounge about for better pricing, and it also indirectly 'pressures' the supplier to not overcharge. When you borrow a hefty sum, there is less scrutiny of each individual cost in your training - and suppliers know this!

I don't believe that anything has changed in the last 50 years. Good luck!

happy days,

solowflyer

23rd Dec 2011, 06:46

PAYG Is the only way. Need to look into the future a bit once you have your CPL and looking for the first job will you be able to pay off a loan on min wage working as a pilot. Join a small club and enjoy the journey. Did my CPL over 6 months and cpl over 3 years would do it the same agin. In fact I will be doing over again soon as will be starting my fling wing training soon.:ok:

multime

23rd Dec 2011, 08:50

Forget about the house. Either that or go mining save. Sorry buts thats reality. Theres no way on GA wages your going to be able to service a mortgage.

ForkTailedDrKiller

23rd Dec 2011, 09:55

I PAYG'd my CPL, MEIR and Instructor's Rating with non-working wife, two young kids and a mortgage!

Its called "hard work! :ok:

Dr :8

Wally Mk2

23rd Dec 2011, 10:13

'Forky' yr old school mate like me unlike the youngin's these days they want it all & want it now on the 'never never' too I might add!:-):)
I got what I wanted the loooong way round, I worked 3 jobs one being a tradie where I did work after hrs also for cash & the other refueling & odd building work. Took me 10 yrs b4 I got a job flying (freelance) & by then I had two houses, 2 kids & enuf 'toy's to make my life comfy.:ok:Wasn't easy but I owed zip at the end of my flying qual's:-) It's doable thru sheer hard work:-)

'Shifty' it's 'my wife & I' not me & my wife, sorry one hears/sees that so much these days from the young whipper snappers & I also wonder what the teachers education level is like:ok: If you want to keep yr training costs down look at options re where you learn, Pearsons are very expensive.

Wmk2

hillbillybob

23rd Dec 2011, 10:43

two good property investments, sold up and have spent the last 3 years (as of australia day) working towards my CPL, between a million lost lessons on weather and the local school closing i am nearly there. unsure what i will do next, i have a well paying job that lets me study the theory side so might do my ATPLs while i have the chance

an3_bolt

23rd Dec 2011, 11:04

First hurdle is paying for your licence - bit by bit.

The second hurdle is earning a living whilst maintaining a family and looking for a flying job.

The second hurdle is the one where I have witnessed several good blokes drop out.

Even with a flying job, chances are it will not be in the city, and chances are it will not pay enough to simply cover rent and put food on the table.

Can be done - won't be easy though. Possibly make your relationship with the Mrs either stronger or destroy it. One could probably say that without her full 100% encouragement and backing, a successful outcome would be unlikely.

Being creative to pay for your licence is actually the easy bit - what comes after is really what needs consideration.

WannaBeBiggles

23rd Dec 2011, 19:24

I also did the PAYG route, it's hard work, especially when your job that pays for your flying ends up taking up your flying time!

I started in my early 20's and bought a house which pretty much put an end to my flying for a few years. House sold and also having worked my way up the career ladder enabled me to start flying again.

Finished my CPL, NVFR and ATPL's while working full time, learnt how to get up at 4am and study and how to say no to social events I really wanted to go to because I had to go fly the next day or study... Good practice for when you start to fly commercially I say! ;)

MikeTangoEcho

23rd Dec 2011, 21:16

What WBB said. I also did NVFR while working full time. Pretty silly really, don't recommend it. Took me 3 years from 0 hours to PPL, then my wife and I sold our house, I pulled my finger out and knocked off NVFR, tailwheel, aero's, CPL and FIR in a touch over a year!

When working full time you'd be surprised at how much money you actually have went you don't spend it on sh:mad:t!

LexAir

23rd Dec 2011, 21:57

To the "Wally Mk2"

"Pearsons are very expensive". Have you bothered to check out their prices lately? I think you will find, if you do, that their hourly rates are pretty much the same as most other schools and they give better service and do not charge landing fees at YMEN!

Homesick-Angel

23rd Dec 2011, 22:04

You only need to look at recent threads on schools with upfront payment schemes, and there is not a lot of happy campers. For me it was four years and 2 jobs and living with family ( no steady partner at the time) dunno if it was the way to go, but it was a way..

NIK320

23rd Dec 2011, 22:26

PAYG for the PPL.
Then took the loan route, wouldn't recommend it.
It was great being able to fly several times a week, and did CIR full time.
At the end there was no way I could leave my well paying job without paying off a fair chunk of that debt.
Had a loan and 2 credit cards maxed out by the end.

Towering Q

23rd Dec 2011, 22:58

Had a good job in a large regional town, where there were two charter companies. Picked one to do the CPL with, PAYG and did the NAVS on weekends.

When completed, was offered casual charter jobs on days off. Scraped enough hours together to side-step the 'pilot poverty pack'.

SpeedHumpCat

23rd Dec 2011, 23:18

Go Mining.

At worst you will earn $5000 in the hand a month, at best $6500, unless you move up from a truck where the money will be more.

On your week off is your time to fly, you will knock it off in no time.

Just dont get trapped by the good money and the time off, you will regret it in the long run.

Shifty-Au

23rd Dec 2011, 23:26

I would like to thank you for all your quick replies :)

I think the best route for me is to just pay as I go and if it takes me longer so be it! i'll get there!! (i hope)

Jack Ranga

23rd Dec 2011, 23:56

Shifty,

First of all, you will get a better deal than flying at Essendon. For whomever it was said that Pearsons donot charge landing fees, is ridiculous, the landing fees would be absorbed in the hourly rate.

Secondly, you don't have to do all your training through the one provider, look for the good deals on the seperate endorsements/ratings. Word of mouth can be good but is not the only recommendation......BE CAREFULL! There are some providers that can provide genuinely subsidised accomodation due to where they are located, subsidised or cheap flying training? If it is ultra cheap, there's usually a reason........BE CAREFULL!

To fund pretty much all of my training, I used to save up half of the cost of the next thing I wanted to do and pay the other half from my wages as I go. I also got a few interest free loans (from the olds) towards the end of the road.

In the in-between times while I was saving for the next thing I would build hours by doing joyflights for mates and I had a family member who used to grab a few mates and we would go away for weekends and split the costs. You can do skydive flying with a PPL for extra hours still.

And one final thing:

DONOT, (FFS), PAY FOR ANY FLYING, UP FRONT, IN A LUMP SUM..........EVER

LexAir

24th Dec 2011, 02:31

Ex FSO GRIFFO

24th Dec 2011, 02:53

G'Day 'Shifty',

What 'Mr Ranga' said.....

PAYG - its the only way you have of keeping the accounting 'honest'.

I did mine in another era by driving taxis in SY for 'a few' years, flying as I went at BK, and got my CPL then went on to the Instr. rating.

ALL paid for as I went...NOT for everyone I know, but 'twas the only way I was going to be able to do it.

As others have said, work work and ....wot was that word again..??

As for the 'rewards'..?? Well, I was never 'QANTAS material', so I went bush, eventually to WA, and stayed.

Changed careers over the years, because of the $$$'s - or lack thereof - and raising a family / mortgage etc., but have recently renewed my CPL, and now 'dabble' again - without the pressures.

Again, not for everyone, but you make your own choices in life...

All the very best to you in your choices.

Cheers:ok:

kalavo

25th Dec 2011, 20:05

Too late for Shifty, but the advice I was given very early on...

Find the job you want before you find the girl you want.

PAYG is definitely the way to go with getting a CPL.

But chasing work and either leaving the missus at home 4000km away, or moving her with you every 6-12 months is extremely stressful on a relationship. I've seen a couple of relationships survive, but I've seen a lot of long term relationships fail in GA.

Jack Ranga

26th Dec 2011, 03:34

You MIGHT get a better deal on the hourly rate but you sure as hell will get ripped off by flying way more hours than you need to. The school has to make money some how so the cheaper schools will make you fly more hours and recoup their profits that way. Don't fall into the trap of thinking the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. If it appears so, its because they feed it more bull-****.

Big statement there champ! 'They will make you fly more hours and recoup their profits that way' :D It is a simple fact that all of an Essendon operators costs go into a bucket and they have to be allocated somewhere. So if you are not being 'charged for it' where do you suppose they are getting the money to pay the charges? You reckon the 'big fella' is waiving the charges because Guy's a good bloke?

Exerience counts and Pearsons have that in spades. Take advantage of that experience.

Nup, there's not a lot of experience in GA anymore is there.........bugga :ugh:

Be aware also that some of the comments you read here are posted by self interested parties.

I'm soooo guessing that you're not one of them???? (That is sarcasm by the way)

Merry Christmas to you all on PPRuNe and may the wingeing, moaning and scare mongering continue with force into 2012!

The bloke asked for advice and he's getting some good, I don't recall reading any whingeing so far????

Jack Ranga

26th Dec 2011, 03:40

Find the job you want before you find the girl you want.

And dude, that is THE best peice of advice I've seen on here.

GPSsteer

26th Dec 2011, 23:46

Hey Jack Ranga, have you got some sort of problem with Essendon operators? Or are you just a grumpy old man? What's your beef? The tone of your post seems to indicate you think all Essendon operators are lying overchaging under experienced scum. Justify your attitude dude! Or will you stay silent because of our very good defamation laws?

Jack Ranga

27th Dec 2011, 00:59

Good Lord, they are out and about................

Shifty,

First of all, you will get a better deal than flying at Essendon. For whomever it was said that Pearsons donot charge landing fees, is ridiculous, the landing fees would be absorbed in the hourly rate.

Secondly, you don't have to do all your training through the one provider, look for the good deals on the seperate endorsements/ratings. Word of mouth can be good but is not the only recommendation......BE CAREFULL! There are some providers that can provide genuinely subsidised accomodation due to where they are located, subsidised or cheap flying training? If it is ultra cheap, there's usually a reason........BE CAREFULL!

To fund pretty much all of my training, I used to save up half of the cost of the next thing I wanted to do and pay the other half from my wages as I go. I also got a few interest free loans (from the olds) towards the end of the road.

In the in-between times while I was saving for the next thing I would build hours by doing joyflights for mates and I had a family member who used to grab a few mates and we would go away for weekends and split the costs. You can do skydive flying with a PPL for extra hours still.

And one final thing:

DONOT, (FFS), PAY FOR ANY FLYING, UP FRONT, IN A LUMP SUM..........EVER

There is a copy of my original post.

Where have I insinuated:

lying overchaging under experienced scum.

What is the landing charge at Essendon? What is the landing charge at Moorabbin? Can you do circuits at Essendon? Are you being charged for transit time to an aerodrome where you can do circuits if your training is being conducted at Essendon?

GPSteer, are you a 12 year old? Justify based on what you just posted.

GPSsteer

27th Dec 2011, 04:31

Jack Ranga, you really appear to be all bitter and an angry type. You should relax and lower your blood pressure.

j3pipercub

27th Dec 2011, 06:00

trololololol

Jack Ranga

27th Dec 2011, 20:20

Jack Ranga, you really appear to be all bitter and an angry type. You should relax and lower your blood pressure.

Yep, that's me champ :ok:

Jabawocky

27th Dec 2011, 22:32

Griffo

They must have been very early model taxi's :E

Gpssteer and co....... Folk like griffo and Ranga are well worth listening to, they will have forgotten more than you know.

Shifty-Au

27th Dec 2011, 23:07

Oh dear! what have I started ?

I thank you for all the advice and opinions.

For the record I am very happy with the School I am with and the level of attention I am getting doing my PPL.

Jack Ranga

28th Dec 2011, 00:40

Shifty,

This thread is proof, as another put it, that many on here have an agenda. Quite a lot of the EN crew don't have many posts and they seem to be on a lot of threads at the moment pushing a particular EN operator.

I'm not pumping up my tyres or pushing an agenda, if I was I'd steer you to the school that I did a bit of instructing at.............It is far and away the best in the game in Melbourne, but I didn't steer you towards them!

I've simply been in your position. I've also seen a lot of young blokes get ripped off and misled and lose big sums of money :ugh:

Being happy with the instruction you are getting is pretty important but as your career evolves it pays to look at all options!

GPSsteer

28th Dec 2011, 01:03

Jack Ranga,

You are entitled to your views but why do you proceed on the assumption that all operators are the same? There is a level of risk in any business transaction it is true but not all operators who offer up front payments are going to go broke. To universally condem as unsafe all up front deals offered by flying schools is an unsupportable proposition. Some schools (incluuding schools at your beloved MB airport) offer substantial advatages to the student for up front payments. It seems to me your professed or implied view of up front payments as overly risky is extreme and one that is likely to deter a student from taking advantage of what otherwise could be a very good deal.

I have taken advantage of up front deals and have been very happy with the results and savings made.

Cheers to you Jack Ranga and have a great New Year!

JMEN

28th Dec 2011, 02:02

There is not a doubt in my mind that if you have to pay for something yourself you work for it twice as hard.

Way back when, 3 jobs, 2 steps forwards, 3 steps back, loved it all and great memories.

Yep I even paid for a jet rating to crack into the airlines, right or wrong it was the only way, oh it made me hungry to find a job before i got rusty (ok was rusty the day after it).

Now I have to remember that as my lad ventures to the skies.

I still thank my instructor who sat me down before I started learning to fly, fresh from school, ready to borrow money from the family. Instructor NO, go to uni and get a job. Not only a great instructor but a wise man full of wisdom. :D:D:D

Enjoy life, its to short to bitch, of to work for me, love my job! :ok:

Happy new year all, and good luck to the future pilots :).

tarmac12

28th Dec 2011, 03:01

GPSsteer,

You have the good luck to know which schools to steer away from. Many hopefulls don't. They don't know the milking tricks or other ways they get every penny out of you they can.

Are you willing to publish a list of pay up front institutions that won't go broke while someone trains there? Of course you won't so don't take the line that not all places are bad and don't judge all by a few. History has shown us that pay up front has a much higher chance of ending in tears than PAYG.

I tried very hard to get a friend of mine not to do his MECIR with 50 hours ICUS at a particular school for a few reasons,

1. They wanted cash up front (25k)
2. They promised it would be done in a certain time (4 weeks)
3. The ICUS was being charged at 200/hour for a Baron

Well the MECIR took 4 months! The 50 hours ICUS in Darwin took 6 months. How on earth can 50 hours in a Baron take 6 months? He didn't earn a cent through the whole thing either.

No prizes for guessing who that was with.

LexAir

28th Dec 2011, 03:19

Very unfortunate indeed. I think we know to whom you are referring. However, If, as others have posted, a student does the research and talks at length to the owner (and not just the paid employee with no stake in the business) then a better picture of the organisation can be gleaned.

I would point out Sharp Airlines offer training deals and employment upon completion yet not one of you would dare to say that Sharp's are rip off merchants and untrustworthy.

Trojan1981

29th Dec 2011, 12:10

Hey Shifty,
I knew one bloke who ran an illegal brothel to fund his licence and now flies Airbuses! Not my thing (airbuses, that is) but it worked for him!

Seriously though PAYG. Maybe short term mining industry work to get some cash behind you and then get it done. No loans or military service necessary.

tarmac12

30th Dec 2011, 02:45

Hi Dr,

Because the 150 hour integrated CPL course is GST free if going through a registered training organisation If you finish your MECIR before your CPL is granted you dont pay any tax on your MECIR component which you normally would have to as it would be completed after.

As it isn't part of the 150 hour course the tax man would love to hear about it I'm sure. I know one guy who did his MECIR straight after his PPL and what he saved in GST he lost out on the extra hours he had to do because of his very low TT.