The switch between AIRLINE job and BIZ jet job

[jimsmitty01]

Hi everyone!

I am thinking about making the switch from Airline to Biz jet. Has anyone got any experience with this kind of move? If so:

1. What are the main differences in lifestyle that one can expect?

2. Is this an advisable move? (I have not heard of many people in my airline making this switch!)

3. As an FO, what are the general chances of being upgraded? (perhaps lack of proper career progression structure compared to an airline?)

Ok keeping it short for now! Anyone with any general advice to give, it would be much appreciated.

Many thanks!

[potatowings]

Hi Jim,

Well, maybe I can shed a little light. While I'd not strictly from an airline background per se, I did fly scheduled for a few years and have experience of both sides a little.

1. What are the main differences in lifestyle that one can expect? My personal circumstances in the job right now... I hardly ever get up before 10am, when I do, it's the occasional early morning and that's about it. I rarely get home later than 10pm, when I do it's the occasional night flight. I have around 20 days a month at home and when I work I tend to do a flight and then settle down for a sauna followed by a nice meal in a 4* hotel. I get paid reasonably well, regularly go to around 30 different destinations, get to see a few odd ones in my travels and I thoroughly enjoy the job. On the other hand I have thousands of less hours than my equivalent airline friends, but have the joys of Russia, the Middle East, Africa and the America's to play with. Having said that I had cultivated (cultivate) contacts to get me into the good jobs, which is very very hard to do. Downsides, my telephone is never off. No such thing as saying NO. They call, you work, simples.

2. Is this an advisable move? (I have not heard of many people in my airline making this switch!) - It's advisable if you want to be a biz jet pilot. But remember this, you WILL be doing LOTS of Jeppessen updates. You will be cleaning the interior, making coffee, lifting bags, having to be extremely flexible, sitting on the plane for 5 hours delaying a flight plan waiting for a punter who's perpetually '20 minutes away'. You'll also be doing your own drop line loadsheets, your own paperwork and possibly your own slot coordination and even potentially filing flight plans.

3. As an FO, what are the general chances of being upgraded? (perhaps lack of proper career progression structure compared to an airline?) - Upgrade tends to be face-fits coupled with ability (ability is not just techs and no-techs, it's front of house customer service). Passing a command assessment is irrelevant. Standards are all. Do you keep high personal presentation standards, a clean cockpit and a spotless cabin?

Hope that helps shed some light on your questions.

Regards

PW

[KyleRB]

Are you being a jerk PicMas?

Jimsmitty01

I have met some that have made the move - it's not for everyone and most don't like it. You are effectively on your own with a lot of the day to day chores to be done by you. Interpersonal skills and smart dress are vital as you will be meeting, greeting and dealing with your passengers. Remember their time is valuable - your's is not!

Roster is frequently a figment of Ops imagination - you could well end up being on standby duty most of the time. Some didn't mind but long term it grated with me. You lived your life around the standby - which is no life!

I have moved the other way but still do some work on the Citation XL. I would NEVER go back to full-time corporate. At least now I have a roster which is honoured so planning one's life is much easier.

That said there is some great flying to be had and some fun places downroute. Most of my ex-colleagues, both pilots and hosties were top notch!

Corporate is a bit of an enigma - it has both the very best job conditions and the very worst, with most somewhere in the middle.

In conclusion, even if you are with Ryanair I'd stick with it or try Emirates or Qatar Airways.

[ksjc]

Funny. I asked my colleague who has an extensive airline background a similar question the other day: Which does he prefer, airline or corporate?

His answer? Corporate has better equipment, better pay, better schedule, better diversity of destinations, better crew hotels and ground transportation, more time to visit cities during layovers, better passengers,...did I say better pay? Downside? Airline guys don't have to "do anything" to prepare for a flight but show up on time.

Now, which sounds better to you?

[Flying Mechanic]

Made the move in 2009, never looked back!more time off, better epuipment,longer lay overs in interesting places,more destinations, VIPs never like early starts,the writing is on the wall for airlines...low cost will be the way of the future! The choice is yours u can always go back to airlines!enjoying my 7 day off in a row, the yacht beckons!:D

[corporate-pilot]

The thing with corporate is you could ask 50 different pilots of their experiences and get 50 different answers. There are some absolutely amazing corporate jobs out there and there are some dreadful ones, and everything in between. Often though (especially with the smaller ones) it's hard to tell what it will be like until you are in.

It's not for everybody, much depends on your personality and ability to adapt.
I do lots of earlies, have a roster which is very stable (for corporate), get paid well and visit some cool places. We get a decent allowance when we're away and are able to plan stuff while down the line. I do about 500 hours a year and get rostered days off allowing me to go away etc. I know of others who are effectively on standby 7 days a week, with the exception of their 25 days annual holiday.

So come on then, is RYR really that bad? You do seem very desperate to jump ship.

[rightbank]

There are airlines and there are airlines.And there are bizjet jobs and bizjet jobs.

If you work for a national/legacy/better airline then that will generally be better than one of the lo-cos.

On the bizjet front working for a private owner will be different to working for a public transport operation.

IF you get a really good private owner then you are in heaven. But a bad owner will be misery. Phone calls at 3 in the morning-I want to fly in an hours time. It's not happened to me but I've heard rumours of it. A good owner will respect your private life and give you plenty of notice. But I think that the grapvine works well and that all of these really good jobs will be filled by word of mouth and a "stranger" to that world won't get a look in. The down side of that is that you will possibly go to the same 6 airports that you always go to as the owner has properties/businesses/friends in those same 6 airports. I have also heard rumours that some private owner don't seem to understand the concept of FTL and I seem to recall reading on this website of a captain who resigned on the spot when, after an 18 hour day his owner wanted him to continue on for another ??hour sector. Can you blame him.

If you are on the PT side of things then your choice of destinations will be much wider, however generally "on-call" times will be longer and in some companies (so I have been told) if you didn't fly yesterday then that was a day off.

So to summarise, in both sectors there are good and bad. Of the 4 options above I have experienced 3 of them (not lo-co) and, unless you can get a really good owner would suggest PT corporate (but with the right company) mainly due to the variety of destinations (but if there are any really, really, really good owners out there my contact details are on this website.............)

[ericthepilot]

The big difference is can do attitude of business pilots,

and the can not do attitude of airline pilots.

Airline pilots need a manual, a procedure and guidance on any level.
Creativity is non existent and any order/ request is countered with the
words; that is not procedure.

Also lack of a Union makes ex airline pilots always complain if they have to go a little the extra mile.

So please, stick to your job.
let us do ours.

Thank you

[Sydy]

Ericthepilot,

Really liked your post. It says it all.

Anyway, let's give jim a chance to try it. I used to be an airliner... flew in it for 16 years (major one, no lo-co), changed 4 years ago to a quite nice job. I have no intention in going back... at all!

Best luck everybody and happy holidays!

Sydy

[Sir Korsky]

In a corporate environment, you are more than a number. The customer knows your name and trusts you. Going to the street and hailing them a taxi in the pouring rain is just not beyond you. You'll be working in a small company with approachable management who are likely to still be flying. The management will know the names of your kids and come and help you move house. It sounds like you feel isolated by your present company's magnitude. Give it a shot, it's not for everyone, but I sure go to work feeling i'm worth something.

[mutt]

Airline guys don't have to "do anything" to prepare for a flight but show up on time. Corporate pilots don't have to do anything to prepare for a flight but shown up on time :) We have "people" tasked with doing everything else :)

Mutt

[NuName]

Asking the difference between airline and corporate epitomises the question "how long is a piece of string". Over the years I have: paid for the fuel, catering, hotels, Jepps subs, medication for the boss and crew, maintenance away from base, airline tickets and god only knows what else using my credit cards. I have done or helped with the washing up, cleaning the aircraft and loading the baggage, planned and filed for the trip, organised ground transport and the list goes on and on. Having said that, I love it. I have always been reimbursed (except for one unfortunate freelance episode) and have enjoyed some fantastic relationships with owners/principles. I have operated on AOC where all was organised for me and private/corporate where the burden of responsibilty was far greater. Over thirty years no two jobs have been the same. You won't experience this in the airlines, be careful what you wish for.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Corporate is a life style statement.

Many corporate go to airlines, I know two specific examples, on is on a 747 freighter, and the other just finishing his 777 simulator training.

Mutt is a spoilt brat. Get a real corporate job......99% of corporate is a DIY exercise.

Would I swop my Corporate and get a real job ( as my son said many years ago) why should I...... I play with the latest big boys toys, stay in 5 star hotels and beach resorts, eat excellent inflight catering, work with a great bunch of girls, and play on the best beaches.

And they PAY me...... I would be mad to go airline.

Corporate is a state of mind....... I dont mind, I love it.

glf

[mutt]

Mutt is a spoilt brat. Ha ha ha, so true :):):) I see nothing wrong with REQUESTING which runway I want to land on. from "OUR" Air Traffic Control, and knowing that they wont refuse..... :ok:

But first round is on you in the Irish Village next Feb :)

Mutt

[G-SPOTs Lost]

And just to caveat the above post for every job like the one above there are 10 where you pitch up to the aircraft with no fuel on, the hunt for a computer with Internet access which also has a printer with toner...is like the hunt for the holy grail

The guy tends to pitch up with extra pax last minute so can't get fuel till you get the wx, just when you decide a figure mutt turns up with his heavy iron and trumps the queue for fuel, so you sit in the aircraft in winter with the door open because the cartridge bog smells.....no apu means checks on the battery which is at 22v when you switch it on, you rub your hands and see your breath.

Your 0800 becomes 0830/0900/0930/1000z as "something's come up"

You witness the ATC guy arriving and put the lights on in the tower

You KEEP touching the wing to ensure its just condensation, if it does frost over you're knackered because there's no de-ice facilities anyway, you look,longingly at the hangars.

You get inspired when a challi / gulf / global driver meets you on the coffee bar and asks you what you're flying....they tell you they used to fly one of those and it was "proper" flying and the "time of their life"

Makes you feel better until said bigjet disappears to somewhere hot and it's only an hour or so till the crew are enjoying lobster tails and pedigree coffee..

Still want to get into GA?

[His dudeness]

After having suffered for years on end from total brainless ops ladies that would put you in a 60€ hotel in Rome because 100 close to the airport was too much to spent (for a minimum rest stay), only that the hotel was an hours and a half away (Rome is small...or rather the ladies brain?), so we spent twice the difference for the transfer and were quite knackered on check in...

Now I finally manage 'my' little FD with one airplane and just us 2 pilots and love every minute of it. It also saves a lot of telephone cost, I just complain to myself when the hotel is ****ty...
Whilst the airplane got a little smaller (CL30 to C680) the fun got bigger and we have loads of it. What I miss is the shiny destinations like Cannes, Mallorca or Fuerteventura, but hey, I will be getting an Aktau/Kazachstan frequent traveller card soon....and who can say THAT!!!

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Mutt,

OK, I had the same situation on my way to your place..... requested other runway, and direct to FIR Bdy.....

Well why not we do own the airport, airspace etc, ect.

Beer order placed.

Glf

[G-SPOTs Lost]

HD are you my German brother? Maybe we can cover each other whilst we have a holiday?

I'll spell that word for you because doing what we do it's not a frequently used word.....

H...O...L...I...D...A...Y........:E

[jimsmitty01]

Thank you for all your replies! I've read through them a couple of times now, so I really appreciate all your input.

I was aware that many of the questions I asked really depended on the operator that you join. But from the posts I've looked at we're pretty well covered with opinions from both sides of the fence now.

To summarise what's been said so far, I think it's fair to say:

That it would be harder work, when your actually at work.

There is generally more time off (but many, many standby days).

Greater responsibilities (Customer Service, Aircraft cleanliness, Operational roles).

Some interesting and random destinations with longer layovers, but more waiting around and uncertainty.

More highly regarded as a professional (depends on the client), but I would imagine more so than flying a load of drunk customers down to the Canary's. - "More than just a number" as Sir Korsky mentioned.

All in all, a lot more face time with the clients, and a lot more of a 'personal experience'.

I reckon that you would also have to be an extremely flexible / adaptable character, to put up with a variable roster (unless you join a large operator e.g. NetJets).

Note to PicMas:

It pains me to reply to you, but if I am honest, I do actually understand and respect your opinion. However if you could just disseminate your outlook on flight training in, a) The correct forum / group / thread. b) In a polite and mature manner. I am positive that people would take you more seriously.

Thanks again for everyone's comments. Hope this thread is helpful for those thinking of making the switch. It is imperative to think twice before undertaking such a massive career change!!

[corporate-pilot]

That it would be harder work, when your actually at work.

Er not always, my airline chums work harder than me. I have minimal stress and a lot of fun and do about 500 hours a year.

There is generally more time off (but many, many standby days).

Yeah I do probably get a bit more time off than some of my mates, very few standby days though.


Greater responsibilities (Customer Service, Aircraft cleanliness, Operational roles).

Yes, making sure their taxis have arrived and of course keeping the aircraft clean and stocked up.


Some interesting and random destinations with longer layovers, but more waiting around and uncertainty.

I'm home most nights, but I do look forward to night stops. Random as far as mainly European destinations. No puddle jumping for me.


More highly regarded as a professional (depends on the client), but I would imagine more so than flying a load of drunk customers down to the Canary's. - "More than just a number" as Sir Korsky mentioned.

Our passengers are professionals and they treat us as professionals. A mutual respect I guess.


All in all, a lot more face time with the clients, and a lot more of a 'personal experience'.

Absolutely! Best bit of the job, a bit of banter in the FBO or at the bottom of the air stair (depending on how well I know them of course)


I reckon that you would also have to be an extremely flexible / adaptable character, to put up with a variable roster (unless you join a large operator e.g. NetJets).

I work for a private owner and have a fairly fixed rosta, multiple aircraft and a decent number of crew to share the workload. You do however have to keep flexible. "You might need to go to xxx tomorrow", to which I normally answer "why tomorrow, I can go now".

[His dudeness]

H...O...L...I...D...A...Y........

@G-SPOT: what exactly does that funny word of yours mean?

:ok:

[His dudeness]

That it would be harder work, when your actually at work. That really depends on how the work/FD is structured. At my place I do EVERYTHING and that means also checking Invoices and settling issues we do have with suppliers - and that REALLY is hard work for me...cuase it just plainly sucks and it intrudes into the free time I`d have...

There is generally more time off (but many, many standby days)

Yes an no. See above.


Greater responsibilities (Customer Service, Aircraft cleanliness, Operational roles).

Definitely, but that gives me greater satisfaction.

Some interesting and random destinations with longer layovers, but more waiting around and uncertainty.

A lot of interesting destinations and more important, usually time to explore em. However some FD´s have just a few routes. Thats really boring then...(IMO)

More highly regarded as a professional (depends on the client), but I would imagine more so than flying a load of drunk customers down to the Canary's. - "More than just a number" as Sir Korsky mentioned.

I have had the pleasure to carry drunk guys around in my airtaxi time...but thats a real exemption. i have been invated by clients onto their boat in the Med, I´ve been invited to join them and see the game (Netherlands vs. Portugal in Lissabon), I have been invited to a 3 star restaurant, etcetc. I carried around Movie stars (e.g.Ed Harris), famous pop groups (e.g.U2) and singers (e.g.Phil Collins) and lots of other real interesting folks.

All in all, a lot more face time with the clients, and a lot more of a 'personal experience'.

See above, plus I have been very few times treated like a bondslave. Or rather they tried it, cause whilst willing to go extra miles I´m not the type let me be abused...

I reckon that you would also have to be an extremely flexible / adaptable character, to put up with a variable roster (unless you join a large operator e.g. NetJets).

Exactly.

Thanks again for everyone's comments. Hope this thread is helpful for those thinking of making the switch. It is imperative to think twice before undertaking such a massive career change!!

Correct. And whilst for the time being its shiny and nice for me, there have been other times as well, there are a lot of Jobs in our field I would not touch with a gripper. i´ve got to say those are not the minority.(Unfortunately)

[Der_Fischmeister]

It´s just dissapointing to see GA Companies employing more and more "Old-time-Airliners",which destroys the movement System within GA.

Aft 30 years Air France, I guess Pension is very good and should be used to play some holes on the Course .
But more and more you see these Gents on Ga Aircraft basically offer their duties for free ,just to stay Active in a Cockpit .

We therefore get upgrade times which can reach Airline Format in the far future ,not very tempting .

I also have no respect for anyone who was willing to pay a 737 rating with our friends in Ireland and now think they can flood the Ga Market .

May all of you here think how it was in the past ,we talked serious "coins" in GA ,now its somehow a "typerated only " market like in the Airlines ,movement stopped..!

It will get worse and we need to stick together to protect what we achieved or was achieved by our "GA-Old-Timers".

its ...THE FISCHMEISTER !!

[RainingLogic]

Ok, a little truth, rather then opinion -

- Airline guys coming out of commuters, move to corporate for the money.

- Airline guys don't move out of the majors to take a pay cut in corporate.

- Airlines are hiring guys that get along in a homogeneous group think union environment where no one makes a decisions and they will be supervised and managed their whole lives.

- Corporate guys TEND to get to a place where they run their own departments and pretty much couldn't even conceive of working for chief pilots, with a book of SOPS under the seat.

- Airline guys and corporate guys can revel in a strict laid out schedule months in advance...but a few of us, don't want things mapped out. Call me a few days in advance, I can plan a trip, figure out how to do it. Airline guys can hate this, as many don't really want to be pilots, or planners, they just want a seat in a plane.

--------------------

It shakes out for me that I can't stand large organizations..I've never been managed...it's been 'here's the keys' and I have a plane ready when they want to go fly...other guys can really hate this.

Last - An airline guy that flies 80 hours a month that owns a C172 to go flying on his days off is telling of a guy that never touches the controls during his tenure as a 'pilot'. People asked me if I owned a plane and I thought they were nuts...'what do you think I do all day for a living?'

- but that of course might have something to do with hand flying approaches for 'fun', doing all the flying and landings, and all the other stuff, so it's pretty pointless to have a little plane, when I get it out of my system at the job.

[NuName]

As long as we (most of us) live in a free and democratic society we can all make our own decision when or not to retire providing that decision is not made for us by the AME. These days all folks are being encouraged to work longer for obvious reasons and for me, not being a spring chicken anymore, thats just fine. I will not be jumping into my slippers and rocking chair just to vacate a position for a younger person, and I know many others just like me. So young man, stop crying in your beer and just get on with it, have a little respect for your elders and remember that we all have the right to go to work. That right does not go away just because one decided to be a professional pilot. If you are any good you will have a fine career, or.............. And if you do have a fine career how eager will YOU be to give it up just to make space for a younger person?
As for airline pilots coming to bizjets, who decided that they are not allowed to do that?

[His dudeness]

Well NuName, whilst I would not back everything the fischmeister wrote, there is one fact that could (would I care about it) make my blood boil: you can´t get into airlines above age 40 give or take a little. Now, how fair is this?
Then SOME of said Gentlemen use their pension to undercut going rates for those who have to live of it. In Germany that was/is the fashion with ex Luftwaffe guys, the socalled BO41s that get a good pension and then fly for less than the going rates (not everyone is doing that, but enough to get noted). And the operators happily do employ them, cause they are cheap.

The State also pays (at least it used to do it) the conversion to civil licence.

Now how fair is this compared to the guys who spent like 70.000€ out of their own pocket to get a licence...



I´m old enough to know that life isn´t fair. Still I can bitch about it.


BTW, when I started to fly the pension age was 65. Now it is 67 and would I fly commercially, I could not fly up to 67. For the time being I can do it in coorperate, which in turn limits the potential jobs for me big time. Now, how democratic and free is that then ?

[NuName]

I think that everything you say is fair comment, but it is what it is, people will always maximize their options its human nature. I worked for years to pay my way through flight school and bum around for some kind of start, at that time I knew a couple of chaps that came from incredibly wealthy families that paid for them both to go all the way to ATPL with Gulfstream type ratings, what's fair in this life? All I meant before is, now that I spent half my life earning the money to get to be a professional pilot I'm not quiting now because some younger guy wants my job. Its is a tough job market out there and even tougher when you get to my age. Everyday I lose out to ex airline guy's, what can you do? Bugger all I say.

[His dudeness]

Bugger all I say.

Checked and agreed ! :ok:

[Der_Fischmeister]

Not crying at all ,and my beer still tastes fantastic .
His Dudeness exactly pointed out my Problem.
Ex -Mil with Pension willing to pay for Ratings ,Airliner Pilots with huge Pensions also willing to pay for their "right " to sit left in GA.

I still dont agree with this ,cause basically everything goes in opposite way instead of how it should be .

If Im good or not ,well im not bad I guess but far away from disrespecting ANYONE!
May you are Senior left ,may right ..may just a wannabe, I dont know you and so neither you now me and how I deal with this .

Maybe one day you will be replaced by a 61 year old which basically wants to fly for free "just not to lay back in his chair at home ".
Of course you will accept that and be polite and make way cause they "deserve" it .Or are you ?

I still dont like this behaviour nor I like 19 year old spoiled Guys buying themselves a Position on an Aircraft ,may it be Airline or GA.

Watch it ,Air France cutting down ...Air Berlin ..etc etc . how do they cut down normally ?well offering the ones close to Pension a huge amount of money and off they go ,now were back to Problem what I mentioned before .

anyways not argueing here, but the future will be, maybe a typical Delta Crew Transatlantic (age wise )

I HOPE NOT !
Cheers
Merry XMAS

its ..THE FISCHMEISTER !!!

[NuName]

Merry Xmas to you too and all the best for the new year.

Its not that I don't understand what your saying its just unrealistic to expect that a guy who has never met you will refuse a flying position so as not to do you out of a job. This will always be the case so, forget about it, stop encouraging ulcers and stress and enjoy what you get, you will feel better for it.

[DownIn3Green]

I did VIP 727 for just under 6 yrs, and loved every minute of it...

Based in Riyadh, the most time I ever spent there in any given year was 32 days...

Loads of time off, however, as has been stated, not really "off"...I carried 2 phones, 1 for me that I could turn off, and 1 for "him"...Except for the 6 week "C" check every year (6 weeks) I was on the road constantly...One year I spent 283 nights in a hotel somewhere in the world...However, we would always have at least 24 hour notice of a flight...my principle's people understood they couldn't order up a trip from say, LAX to Beruit, with a drop-off in Paris on short notice...

I had an extensive airline background, and when the kids were born I went back to the airlines, but I truly loved VIP...

Good Luck...

[737drvr]

I started in executive an went to the airlines ( no lo-co). Although I never regreted the change, I never gave up on executive for a simple reason: I love executive flying! I will not claim one is better than the other, both have their advantages and disadvantages. The most important thing to remember is that they are very different. I cannot wear my airline hat when I am flying exec and vice versa.

If you don't stick to the procedures in the airlines, somebody will have your balls for breakfast, nobody wants your creativity! If you are not creative and flexible in executive then a: you are going nowhere and b: somebody will have your balls for breakfast.

The bottom line is I love to go to work, get in and go, and be done when I land (airline). BUT I also love being the "CHIEFCOOKBOTTLEWASHER" in executive flying!

[AA717driver]

737--Spot on.

TC

[Fullagas]

Nothing's worse than having ex-airline or ex-military retirees show up on property. They generally have the 'my way' mentality and not fun to be around. If you fellas are bored, go take up a hobby, learn ceramics, etc. Don't come and dilute my earnings/upgrades. You haven't earned it.

We had an ex-mil turboprop retiree show up and I was tasked with his company and flying orientation. His attitude was poor (know-it-all, until asked a specific question), refused to wear FO stripes, and wasn't a good stick at all. Management loved his low-ball wage though. He only lasted a few months, as he refused several trips because the customer had the odd idea of departing before 10 a.m., which didn't fit with his retiree schedule.

Whoever thinks GA is paid below airline had better think again. For smaller corp jets it may be so, but the mid-size and larger have great pay and bennies.

[RainingLogic]

It's becoming a well known fact that Military and airlines are culling for robots that take orders, specifically culling out independent thinkers.

More then a few biz jet owners are getting wise to this when they hire some guy who says he flew all the heavy stuff but can't plan a trip, the plane stays down for 3 months, or just can't 'get it done' on the fly.

The last guy I had to deal with was an ex Eastern Capt. that practically brought down an Fortune 100 flight dept, more types then god, but he was doing so much cowboy flying, that his FO quit, the FAA was called in, and I was brought in as a witness to talk about simple crap like weight and balance, performance and planning. Everyone was scratching their heads at what this guys was doing. I mean once he flamed out on the roll out, the fuel was so low, but he would never fly about FL350 because he thought any depressurization above that alt was instant death. He had so many holes in his aviation knowledge it was scary, and he had an L1011 type, he was a check airman back in the day, on and on.

He was the perfect example of a guy at the right place, the right time, greasing the right wheels but literally could barely tie his shoes.

[Tourist]

"It's becoming a well known fact that Military and airlines are culling for robots that take orders, specifically culling out independent thinkers."


"You haven't earned it."


You guys make me laugh my arse off.

[galaxy flyer]

It's becoming a well known fact that Military and airlines are culling for robots that take orders, specifically culling out independent thinkers.

Could you cite some real airline or military experience to justify that assertion? One thing I have learned after 29 years of AF, 11 years of civil corporate time is this:

The difference between the two is that in the military everybody dresses the same and thinks differently and it is the opposite in civilian world. There are more independent thinkers in some squadrons than in whole corporations.

GF

[His dudeness]

The difference between the two is that in the military everybody dresses the same and thinks differently and it is the opposite in civilian world. There are more independent thinkers in some squadrons than in whole corporations.

Yes, the military is a very well known discussion group, everyone joins in on an order and brings its thoughts to it.....and if the colonels views are deemed no good, for sure his order won´t be followed.

Thanks for this brilliant laugh!

[Denti]

@galaxy flyer, remember you talk to one of the many incarnations of SSG there...

[Tourist]

Yes, and every little boy grows up looking at the sky and dreaming about flying as the taxi driver of some rich bloke.

The lucky ones with skill and panache succeed, and the inadequate losers have to join the military and suffer the cheap, taught to the exam training and endless, no variety, same every day magenta line following. They look up at the sky and curse those fortunate few who live the dream. They end up bitter and twisted; inadequacy and feelings of lack of fullfilment cause them to cast aspersions at the elite "corporate" pilots, questioning whether they have " earned it".



er....no..wait...that's not right, is it...:E

[Andi]

RainingLogic,

the Eastern Capt you are talking about sounds like the one that I used to fly with a while ago (or at least one of his lots). A "Mr.Know it All" with lots of type ratings (Rank Xerox Ratings I guess) and his standart reply to everything was"
I know,I know,I am Capt,I know...".
He refused to fly above FL 330 or FL350 cuz of cosmic and atomic radiation.You have a guess what I was thinking about his brain radiation.To keep it short he got fired in a matter of 2 month.
Sorry for hijack.:E
Andi