Lion air stops recruiting through eagle jet

[Nasigoreng]

Lion air finally decided to stop taking anymore pilots through Eagle jet.

[737max]

Hi - where did you hear this? Thanks

[captjns]

I sincerely hope the news is true:D.

Perhaps Lion Air has come to their senses and decided not to hire pilots with such a lack of respect of themselves that would even entertain paying for their jobs:ok:.

[ReverseFlight]

I sincerely hope the news is true:D.Don't celebrate just yet. Maybe business has been transferred to a local agent. :D

[Nasigoreng]

All the people who paid to eagle jet for type ratings to goto lion air basically have been royally scr3w3d!!!

Type with no time, join the cueeee

Lion got a steady stream of brown low self esteem Indians then why shall they hire snobbish Europeans and Americans who keep demanding things. Indians just shake their head up n down and say yes to all they are asked to do...!! :eek:

[MTBUR]

Wow - what's your source? Eagle and Lion seemed like a happy combo not so long ago!

[captjns]

All the people who paid to eagle jet for type ratings to goto lion air basically have been royally scr3w3d!!!

Type with no time, join the cueeee

Oh so sad:{ to bad:*. Gotta an issue get a tissue:mad:.

I do feel just a wee bit sad, again, just a wee bit sad, for the parents who wasted their hard earned money so their children could take a most undeserved short cut to the cockpit of a shiny jet.

Oh well, you know what they say... tuition comes at a very hight price.

Back to the old way of doing things... they gotta earn their way into the right seat.

[sonsal]

Its a bit hard to believe that Lion air has stopped Eaglejet guys because of MSD aviation supplying pilots to them?

[Nasigoreng]

It is easy to figure out why coz MSD guys are cheaper to them.. Plus the amount of guys coming through MSD fulfills their requirement for RHS

[Ridge Runner]

I sincerely hope the news is true:D.

It is true

[cessna310]

Its not trueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.eagle jet got new contract with lion air which is cheaper than others for airline and P2F guys.Who ever started this he must be rival of EJ or just unsuccessfull guy.God bless him.


Monkey started dancing and we all dancing with monkey....:ugh:

[jetjockey696]

Everything has stopped in lion due to the fact to the lack of instructors at this present time... All instructor have there exceed there hours for the year and cant be bothered to teach and fly single pilot on jet any more this year:E

Come on guys... enjoy your last christmas and New Year with your family and loved ones... after you join Lion no more Christmas for sometime to come...and Loved ones..well you get new loved ones here in Jakarta to spend your new life and christmas with...:ok:

BTW the Indian p2F is for 3years and you get 2000usd (salary NOT incl flt pay) only. the rest of the money SOMEBODY keep..:mad: so you fly 110+ hrs for free for 3 years... so Eaglejet is not so bad after all. hahaha.. aleast you can walk away...after 500hrs or a year so chose...

Be patient guys.. Lion wants your money...:ok: Until next year then...

[Nasigoreng]

Guys don't pay any monies to Stephane or Howard.. Lion will not be taking anymore guys through Eaglejet...!!! Don't say that you were not warned!!!

[Speedbird744]

We know there are delays and will be but EJ have revised their agreement with Lion only a few weeks ago. The new deal is 2 years inclusive of 500 hours on the line. Waiting period of between 3-6 months.

[IRS ALIGN]

@ Nasigoreng

Could you please highlight what evidence you have to back up this claim that Lion Air are no longer accepting pilots from Eaglejet? To be honest this surprises me as judging from your previous entries you have been saying this sort of thing since October but the intake of pilots from Eaglejet has been constant since then.

One other thing that seems to disprove your theory is that I have a good friend of mine who is starting on the program on Monday. He was told the terms and conditions of the program have changed slightly concerning the price and waiting time but that is it.

Seems like you are trying to rock the boat for some reason..

[photo1]

Hi guys ,
Am here in Jakarta currently and to be honest it's not as bad as people say... You can make it hard for yourself if you come here with an arrogant I knowit all attitude but if you stay levelheaded and show them some interest they will treat you with respect and you will enjoy it.

I understand that the contract has changed with eagle but that's just business and I am sorry to say it's happening all over.

I also respect those of you with the opinion against pay to fly... But I suppose that is everyone's own decision , and talking from personal experience it's not an easy one.

You get to fly some great kit and your getting a lot of hours in short space of time and that's important.plus you do get some time of to enjoy indo, just maybe not as much as you might at home.

I expect to get some negative replies but I really don't care I'm happy here and I happy with the decision I have made. I have met some great friends.

All the best:ok:

[SpiderFly]

Totally Agree on that. Wonder where they got the information from. Obviously everybody has a different point of view on P2F or Lionair, but i dont see what's wrong with this...

[captjns]

To Photo 1 and all the other P2F’ers. Someday you will be having a meal with other pilots who earned their way into the cockpit the old fashioned way…. no short cuts… just plain hard honest work, building legitimate hours to earn their right in the right seat… no bribes or tapping the family treasury to buy one’s way into the cockpit.

Of course one of the legitimate pilots will ask you the ultimate question. “So Photo 1… where did you do your training, and did you build your hours.” Gulp… will you have the courage to admit that you bribed your way into the cockpit by paying a training organization for jet time? Or are you going to exclude the fact that you were one of those who continue to keep the bar low and prevent the improvement in terms and conditions for our profession?

The P2F stigma does not disappear so easily. The world of aviation is a very small one at that. Your baggage will follow you no matter where you go. Someday, you will apply for a job with a carrier. You will be included in the selection process with other low timers. Perhaps your fellow low timers may have little or no jet time. Anyway during the interview, and explain how you obtained your jet time with such low time. You can’t lie, especially during an interview. Trust me, it won’t take a rocket scientist to figure out you were one of the P2F’ers. Whether you fess up during the interview or the record background check your prospective airline will conduct. I’ll bet a month’s salary you will be out and the low timer in. Most carriers want honest hard working pilots who appreciate the value of their airman certificates.

Lets fast forward into the future. Let’s assume you manage to get on with a carrier. All the shine and buff has worn off, and you are feeling less than content with your position, pay, terms and conditions. You are pissed off because your airline wants to increase your productivity from 80 to 95 hours per month with no pay increase. Further your airline wants to reduce your annual leave from 4 to 2 weeks per year. Your airline wants to cut back on medical and retirement benefits. And all you do is just grumble. Well, take a good long look in the mirror and ask who is responsible for such crappy treatment. The answer is in the same mirror. Remember Photo 1, we are now in the future. That said go back to 2011 when you wanted to sidestep the normal route to the cockpit and P2F. Remember how the training organization your parents paid good money to and how the airlines exploited you and others like you. Now you have the answer as to why terms and conditions within our industry are on the decline… The P2f’ers are a major part of the problem. And that’s why you can’t expect other pilots who earned they way into the cockpit to really respect you. Oh, they’ll probably talk to you, but you’ll carry the P2F’er label wherever you go.

Follow your heart and your conscience.

[SpiderFly]

You Guys are hilarious ! Especially you captajns. you’ll carry the P2F’er label wherever you go???
Wauw, you said that nicely, how long did you manage to think about that. So a better pilot would be somebody sitting 5 years at home doing nothing in times with few jobs available.. Remember who started all this P2F... Yes, the 2 major airliners of Europe.... And many of them are settled already in the World's leading Airliners,, And do they carry a P2F tag when they are having a meal with colleagues ? NO ! They are just ambitious with passion to fly... That it took you years to find a job, no doubt, otherwise you wouldn't even spend time on this forum, but calling P2F people wrong.... yeah right... Keep on going... Fantastic !!! :mad:

[captjns]

Spiderfly... it's one thing to pay for a type rating as the lads do with Ryanair and EZJet. However, when they start their training, they get paid after the safety pilot is released.

Now with Lion Air... not only do these children pay for their type ratings, they also pay to sit in the right seat of a jet. Major difference.

There are those with ethics that do not promote, nor endorse such a program.

Just imagine for a minute Spiderfly, just one minute. Imagine if all potential P2Frs refused to participate in such a scheme. What do you think Lion Air would be forced to do?

I don't know who long you've in involved in aviation, but in my 36 years plus flying for carriers all over the world, I've seen terms and conditions decline. Probably more so in the US than anywhere else. And why??? because there are boneheads willing not only to fly for free, but pay to fly as evinced by the Lion Air scheme!!!

I`ve turned down an offer from Lion air as a TRI because of their exploitation of those naive puppies thinking they will have job security after the terms and conditions have been satisfied.

It's just plane bad, wrong, and amoral, and against goes against the principles of those who have earned their way into the cockpit.

As I said, I have no argument about signing a training bond, or even paying for a type rating... but paying to sit in the right seat during revenue operations??? that's just plain evil!

BTW Spiderfly, I don't quite understand your statement you’ll carry the P2F’er label wherever you go??? I have been on someone else`s nickel after I was hired by the airlines as far as type ratings are concerned.

[jetjockey696]

I just heard there are 20 guys arriving at lion on the 19th DEC.. 10 guys from Eaglejet and 10 guys from MSD.


There you go.. all ready for next year ground school..:ok:

[Nasigoreng]

This is the last eagle jet batch... None planned for the new year and lion already has informed that they do not need anymore. Please don't ask me for the source coz I won't tell. And eagle only may provide captains but I don't think eagle has any captains. So there you have it guys.. Don't go buying ratings for eaglejet coz you will be stuck with a rating and no hours. :)

[photo1]

Like I predicted there is always someone that's against it, but I've noticed that most people that are against p2f are from an older generation and probably still stuck with the I have had it so hard time sympathy chip on their shoulder.

there is not much difference between the Ryanair and the easy jets and the eagle jets. It does not make you a worse pilot paying for your own training because most of us are uk trained, and let me add trained by the most established training centres.

I am certainly not ashamed to tell anyone that I had to pay for my own training. And also the cheek of some individual to persume that everyone doing this is well off or got their parents to pay for it shows a lack in intelligence and quite frankly not worth the time of day...

Have A nice day everyone..:8

[Speedbird744]

Regardless of how much money one has to throw at these programs, you still have to prove yourself as a professional pilot. If not then you will lose money and be bitter. People are out for themselves, this is the world we live in. P2F in many different forms including line training is here to stay. Jetjockey is right and although that was the last batch of 2011, there will be more in 2012 when positions arise.

[aviator_88]

got the same mail...what do u think the fee will be??

[adeash]

Where do you guys get this info?

[jetjockey696]

Flygosh. you pay 33k USD include (screeening test..aptitude test) plus $100 for him intro fee.. price might go up next year... supply and demand...

[TigerStripes]

If you're trying to get into Sriwijaya through FlyG, you're paying a premium.

Save yourself a few thousand USD, and contact the office in Jakarta.

Better yet, fly down personally and speak with the good people there.

Last I checked, it should be USD29K for the TR to fly their B737CL.

Cheers!

[Lyndon24]

Grrrrr just when I save the 26,500,..The devil bounces the price back to 33,500 hmmm in the spirit of Indo I am wondering if we can negotiate lol

[PosClimb]

Has anyone actually confirmed with Eaglejet that this rumor is true?

Or is this just simply a case of people making up rumors?

[adeash]

hi tigerstripes. 29k was the old price and they have now increase to 32k. But as far as i know that is for CPL holders.

No point going to jakarta as they wont entertain us, one of my mate met the operation director as was told to go to fly gosh.

They are getting 4 738NG next year and understand that the price will be much lower for us rated guys.Eagle has increase to 33.5k and a whopping USD55k for CPL holder and yet we have to fly for free for 500 hours and only then there will be a 1 year contract which I heard is not even guranteed.

With a 3 year contract from Sri Wijaya, by far the best deal around and by that time we can get 2700 hours on type.

I am pretty sure price will increase again since demand is more than supply and Indonesia is where the next pilot heaven is for us. I'll just grab whatever opportunity that comes in my way. Better than sit at home being jobless and let our blue book expire to become a piece of toilet paper.

[TigerStripes]

Mr Adeash,

Read my post again. I never said anything about Eagle, or USD 55K. (You are refering to LionAir)

I only wrote about Sriwijaya Air.

You want to know why i'm so sure of myself? Its because i'm in Jakarta, and you're not. Have you tried coming to Jakarta and knocking on doors looking for a job? I don't think so.

You expect the Indonesian airlines to get back to you just because you have a CPL/MECIR/ATPL or are type rated? Dream on. There are many more pilots like you who think the whole world owes you a job.

I can tell you so because I have 2 fellow batch trainees who got into the airline because they persevered and persisted, eventually coming to Jakarta to speak with HR and management personally.


TigerStripes.

[A320_paperboy]

Wow..... i see Eagle jet are pushing the price up again ($39500 from $26500) and the opportunity:rolleyes: to be away from home soil for 4 years now, plus expenses, how greedy do they get??
I know for sure that this has pushed many people out of the loop and wasted peoples money in paying for ratings with the hope of spending the last of there hard earn cash on getting a job. :ugh:

[captjns]

spending the last of there hard earn cash on getting a job

Let's get real folks... it more like Mommy and Daddy's money. No bank in their right mind is going to issue a loan for flight training given the fact most students don't have the collateral to support such loan.

[captkirk3000]

Eagle Jet is now offering 500 hour line training program for Lion Air and 4 year guaranteed employement for 4 years at $2300 a month!
For those pilots who wanna pay to go to work it's $39,000+....:ugh:
For pilots who support these programs, it's very sad... Pay your dues and stop letting these companies use and abuse you!

[adeash]

To resign before the contract we need USD100000?Are you kidding me?

39 K plus our living expense and rating will take us more than USD70k++

They think we are money printing machines heh

[captjns]

Just continue to lower the bar folks... go right ahead. Mom and Dad's good money down the $hitter:ugh:... if only the parent knew the true story.

[bureaufly]

Sadly true !! when i started the type rating ( with TRTO indicated from them ) was 26.5K and 5/6 weeks to start after Type Rated.... Ive been waitnng now from September and price is 39.5K 4 years legally committed !! i have no choise, the alternative is stay with a 737 type and nothing to do with that !!
please don't answer telling me i told you ...

[SpiderFly]

Lion air will become great, Asia is booming ! Great opportunity to make many flying hours !!!! Happy new year @ All

[captjns]

So what do you think guys and gals after reading bereaufly's lament? Still think it's worth mom and dad's money? Still think mom and dad would have laid out the bazookums had they known how much money these scams actually cost?

Do you think programs ala Lion Air add to the quality of terms and conditions to our profession? If so... please enlighten us as to why you think so.

Come on folks at least with a professional pleasure provider, (may not be able to write hooker on these threads), there's usually a happy ending... no???

[captkirk3000]

I'm sorry to say it this way but, anyone who buys into these programs has disgrace oneself. It's pilots like you who bring down our profession and make us all look desperate!:mad:
Standards, pay and respect will continue to be lowered if pilots accept and buy into these programs!
Pay your dues like the rest of us and stop putting your family and self in debt!!

[el_capitano]

What a crap deal. You pay $15,000USD for a type rating and then you need to pay an additional $39,700USD for the EJ course, total price comes to $54,000 before you even start your first 500hrs of not getting paid.
So lets throw in $20,000 for living expenses for the first 500hrs as u will need to take into account rent/living expenses and any other incidentals as they come up and then at the end of the 500hrs the pay on offer is $2300usd per/mth, yearly salary of $27,600USD per yr. You dont need to be a mathematical genius to work the figures out. Your initial outlay is $74,000USD to get paid $27,000USD per year and on a 4yr contract where if you want to leave prior to the 4yrs you have to pay up $100,000USD.

Sounds like a great ponzi scheme to me. Even Berni Madoff would have been proud of this one.

What this sounds like is the boyz and gals at EJ and their counterpart at Lion Air want a pay rise for the new year and have worked out a way to justify it.

Why would anyone go for a deal like this, irrespective of the amount of flying you will be doing. It is just plain ludicrous. :=:=:=:=:=

[PosClimb]

Pay your dues like the rest of us and stop putting your family and self in debt!!


Who exactly are you paying your dues to?

Is there like some kind of committee that gives you a certificate or something that says: "John Smith has paid his Dues"?

[captjns]

No PosClimb... it means that individuals log time at their own expense and not at the expense of the professionals in our industry who are attempting to improve terms and conditions.

Those who willingly enter a P2F program ala Lion Air are counter productive to the cause. IMO paying to sit in the right seat of a shiny jet while the airline is making money off of the P2Fer during revenue operations is even worse than crossing a picket line.

It has to be one of the lowest forms of self respect one can have for their peers let along themselves.

[PosClimb]

All the talk against P2F is just pissing into the wind.

So long as you have:

1. More pilots than planes.
2. Pilots with rich parents or access to credit.

You will always have P2F.

Only way to stop it would be to:

1. Severely regulate and limit the supply of new pilots (not gonna happen).

2. Have some kind of world pilots association that regulates all pilot employment (dream'n).


And P.S., until Joe Airline pilot can sign my Passport Application, pilots are not, and will never be, technically "professionals".

Highly skilled labor would be a more accurate term.

[roxar]

All the talk against P2F is just pissing into the wind.

So long as you have:

1. More pilots than planes.
2. Pilots with rich parents or access to credit.

You will always have P2F.

Only way to stop it would be to:

1. Severely regulate and limit the supply of new pilots (not gonna happen).

2. Have some kind of world pilots association that regulates all pilot employment (dream'n).


And P.S., until Joe Airline pilot can sign my Passport Application, pilots are not, and will never be, technically "professionals".

Highly skilled labor would be a more accurate term.
3rd Jan 2012 17:43

Or To be more accurate i think close all the flying school around the globe until the demand back in track..:ok::ok:

[banterwizard]

Dear all,

Ive never posted on pprune but ive been reading up on Eaglejet and the line training program, I got myself rated on the 737 last year with hope of doing the 500 hrs, yes some people have mom and dads to fund them but not me, i earned my money working to fund the whole thing, but theres know way now i can do it, im not a whinger and would have had no problem living in Indonesia for a year or 2 building hours, but the price has gone up to almost 40000USD, when eaglejet informed me off this i replied by saying "you can suck my b#**s for 5000 dollars, then we'l talk" its supply and demand and if we all stop looking to P2F then prices will eventually come down to........ NOTHING, which is exactly how it should be done. i await eaglejets response to my very gracious offer and in the mean time im getting an instructors license, i know a guy with a flight school who'l hire the wizard and wait and see what happens.

All the best fockers.

The banter wizard, the greatest wizard of them all.

[captkirk3000]

There is nothing wrong with having a self funded type rating!
Now when a pilot pays to fly/work, that's where the line should drawn. Shame on the pilots who keep theses companies like EagleJet in business. Have some self respect for yourself and this industry. How could you call yourself a professional pilot, when you pay your employer or whoever to go to work?!?!:ugh:
You continue to lower the standard of our well loved profession. It doesn't matter if you have parents funding, credit or even won the lottoery. It's simply not right and you aren't a professional pilot!!

[aviator_88]

hahahahhaha, just saw the offer.
so need to invest 40000$, work for free and pay my own living expenses for 9 months and then stay there for 4 years for salary of 3500$/month

30000(TR)+40000(EJ)+15000(LIVING EXPENS.DURING LINE TR)= 85000$ to invest

3500*(4*12-9)= 136500$ -----that total gain from salary
(local contract 2500$ basic + 10$/flying hr)

salary per yr= 34125$
program expenses per year= 21250$
----------------
"profit": 12875$ ----------per month: 1072$

so...you should live from 1072$/month in jakarta for 4 years :ugh::ugh:

hahahhahahha, I really don't understand who is crazy here...are there people applying for this one??

[Jerry Lee]

Getting a FAA TR is cheaper. A FAA TR should not make you uneligible to take a seat in a Lion Air's Boeing 737

[captjns]

To all the Microsoft pilots, to the future children of the magenta line, to the current children of the magenta line, and to the parents of the aforementioned...Know this one and all... tuition comes at a very high price.

These children remind me of a scene from the movie Porky’s… Great movie by the way:ok:.

A groups of high schoolers fro Angel Beach go a house of ill repute to experience their first assignation. Well they pay Porky a large sum of money…. Shown to a special door, to which they open with great anticipation, only to find themselves in a swamp.


Porky is up on the balcony with other patrons of his establishment laughing at the lads in the water who not only had their egos diminished, but less the sum of money they came with without the reward of receiving the anticipated services to be rendered.


To those expecting sympathy:= for getting hosed by the likes of Eagle???:hmm: rent the movie Porky's. After watching the movie recommend it to any of your mates thinking about the Eagle/Lion scam.


Consider it as a nondeductible tax expensive.:{

[SpiderFly]

@ All who don't like the p2F thing :

1) Go do something important instead of wasting your time on a forum
2) Be professional yourself, and get a break

[captjns]

And if I may opine my views... Those who are against the P2Fer... you know the ones who continue to lower the bar for those professionals who are trying to raise the bar for their fellow colleagues... you know the ones willing not only to pay lots of money to fly for free on revenue flights... you know the ones who are worse than those who would cross a picket line, and what for??? instant gratification at the expense of those trying to improve conditions... please feel free to post your views.

It's important to boycott employment at any of the P2F puppy mills ala Lion Air in any position, including a position as a LTC, TRI, or TRE.

[PPRuNe Towers]

On come on now SpiderFly,

All views welcome here.

You could always stick your fingers in your ears and sing loudly:}

I said you could always stick your fingers..............

[Lyndon24]

I only wanted to pay the 26 k and do the 12 month contract,..4 years in Jakarta,..ferrrrrkkkk hahahaha I dont like the sound of that

[captjns]

does anybody know if this was just a crazy rumor or not? not speculations, somebody who actually knows something please..

Are you another individual looking to lower the bar by paying your way into the right seat of a jet rather earning your way the way mature professional pilots do?

[MTBUR]

Lion has an abundance of first officers - and most aren't ready for upgrade. HR doesn't think a lot will change soon too. Even those with experience on type are being turned away as they apparently have no need (what about their recent orders??) and the top recruiter also gets cash from each agency too.

In short, isn't a huge demand, so price bring risen to deter applicants, but there will still be some who will do it.

[f28]

Hi,
Guys any one can give me idea about lion air interview pl.
Thanx.

[f28]

Pl any one can help wt lion Air interview do they have written Exam how it done? Pl Help me out.any sagesion?

[captjns]

Rather than thinking about paying to fly, consider other alternatives to accumulate flight time.

[v1r8]

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