Flight test engineer job

[Jonas88]

hello,

I wasn't sure were I could post this, because the other threads were closed. I'm a student pilot ATPL with +- 160 flying hours on single engine and I have a bachelor degree in aviation technologies. I was looking for a airline job and came across flight test engineer jobs. My question is: Am I qualified for such a job ? Is there somebody who has some experience in this ?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hello Jonas,

FTE jobs vary massively, and there will almost certainly be jobs you could do. The ATPL knowledge is very helpful - but the degree may or may not be a problem. "Aviation technology" is a title usually associated with very basic degree programmes that are really just there to satisfy USian requirements to have a degree for an airline pilot job and usually they contain very poor maths and science content compared to a more grown up degree in Aerospace Engineering.

Better still in the current environment, you'd want a degree in electronics or avionics.

But, given that each FTE job is fairly unique, and most organisations will look at everybody as an individual, there's certainly no harm in applying.

G

[Jonas88]

thanks for the quick reply ! Are there any companies that need a test flight engineer ? ( I'm willing to move across europe and gain some extra training within the company). Any ideas are welcome. Does someone know a test flight engineer which I could get in contact with?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Reading through the various threads on this forum will easily show you who the experienced FTEs are.

There's not really a single source of FT job adverts, but could could start at SFTE Home (http://www.sfte.org)

G

[typhoid]

Hi Jonas,

I am going to be a bit less positive. Given your lack of Engineering degree, limited aviation experience and no prior knowledge of aircraft testing, I would think it highly highly unlikely that you would get a job as a flight test engineer.

Certainly none of the major companies are likely to consider you a credible candidate. You may get lucky with a small outfit but it is still a very long shot.

You may be better focussing your energy on reaching your goal in aviation, whatever that may be. If becoming an FTE is your goal, there are many linked threads here to help you work out how to best develop for the role.

I don't want you to waste many hours needlessly.
Good luck in whatever you do.

Typhoid

[Pilot DAR]

Yeah Jonas,

For my experience, the expectations for prior knowledge and skill in engineering and analysis are very high for any FTE job of any importance. There are courses, though they are costly. The experience is hard to get. Anything can be done, but some things have a really long lead time (many years). Finding work to do helps you to build experience, but for what I have seen, you'll have to be mentored into it by someone who'll take you under their wing.

Just 'cause I'm entirely curious, student pilot ATPL with +- 160 flying Student pilot and ATPL seem to be at different ends of the spectrum. I have not seen the two terms used together before. The 160 hours seems closer to the student pilot side of things. I take it you're working toward the goal of the ATPL? Everyone starts somewhere, and 160 hours is an accomplishment to be proud of. It's a foundation for more flying. If flight test interests you, fly as many different types as you can, at least 10 hours in each. Flight test is really a type of flying where you want 1000 hours of flying experience, not an hour a thousand times!

Good luck....

[Genghis the Engineer]

Some very valid points from Typhoid and DAR.

"Aviation Technologies" is almost certainly the aeronautical equivalent of Ladies Basket Weaving and contains very little real science and maths - both really fundamental to FT. Also, getting an FTE job is, frankly, a lot tougher than getting a bottom rung professional pilot job - and getting tougher by the year as the number of jobs reduce, and the availability of educational qualifications goes up.

So the newbie FTE nowadays probably has an MSc and also has shown some very considerable commitment to the technical side of aviation, and whilst it does not require flying licences, these are advantageous and as DAR says a significant spread of types is really beneficial.

As a comparison the 23 year old Genghis when I got my first FTE job had a PPL, and although my hours were pretty minimal logged hours in 9 types, a BEng(Hons) in aeronautical engineering, a couple of years engineering experience, and a track record of writing for magazines (writing is a BIG skill requirement in flight test). That, frankly, just about qualified me to sit in the corner and make tea for the grown ups - although I was also damned lucky to be there, got some great opportunities shortly afterwards, and was running my own trials within a year of that.

The modern equivalent probably has an MSc (for FTE work there are only two MSc programmes I'd rate - Cranfield and NTPS) and a few more hours than I had then.

And both I then, and the youngsters starting now, also share a passionate interest in flight testing. Without that, not a hope. It really is not a a second choice for somebody who can't get a pilot job.

G

[Bear 555]

Jonas,

FTE is a specialist career - not just a job. Whilst echoing Genghis' comments above, I'll add my own view in support. I (not an FTE!) work with a group of FTE's who have been in the industry from between 5 and 25 years each. Please don't tell them I said so, but they are SMART, technical, professional folks.

All of them are enthusiastic about what they do, and all of them are also either Radio Model flyers or leisure pilots. I'm pretty sure all their formal education is at a minimum Aeronautical Engineering degrees - with a handful of MSc thrown in. Their depth of technical knowledge in aircraft and systems always amazes me.

They all enjoy coming to work and so I hope you get the hint that they're all pretty addicted to Flight Testing as a subject and as a career choice.

If you're determined, then please don't be put off. I recon there's enough guidance above to point you in the right direction. SFTE and RAeS definately a good place to start.

Good luck in whatever you choose.


Bear

[typhoid]

Bear,

I suspect we have done business (and much coffee) together in the UK and some fairly grotty places. Hope all is well and your smart colleages are behaving!

Say hi from me to them, the colonies are in good order although chilling for Christmas.

Good luck to the OP in his aviation pursuits.

Typhoid

[Bear 555]

I think I said 'enthusiastic' not (ever) 'well behaved'!

Coffee's as frequent as ever and I am cataloging Cinnabon locations in support.

Good luck with the snow shoes/chains/shoveling.


Bear

[Pilot DAR]

the snow shoes/chains/shoveling

Yes, 'tis the season! And ski flying, and landing on the clear ice of a frozen lake!

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo252/PilotDAR/Aircraft/IMG_2357.jpg

and, ballet on the ice...

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo252/PilotDAR/Aircraft/IMG_2465.jpg

[barit1]

While not a flight test engineer, I worked many years in engine performance testing. For me, besides the analytic (thermo & aero work), an intimate knowledge of the instrumentation and recording equipment was necessary - the ability to discriminate between real engine behavior and instrument errors.

And yes, the flight test engineers I've known have all been very sharp, questioning, perceptive people. Some of them advanced smartly in their organizational ranks. And I doubt any of them began as entry level jobs.

[ICT_SLB]

Jonas,
It sounds to me that your next position should be in a Flight Test organization but not at the lofty (?) level of FTE. For every test crew there are probably a hundred dedicated, knowledgeable engineers, technicians and other folks backing them up. I would suggest looking at some of the company web sites - for example the outfit I work for (which is probably the same one as Typhoid just different locations) is in a heavy recruitment phase. Get a full test program under your belt at whatever level and you'll be in a much better position to take your career forward.

[outerlimits]

NICE PICS......

[Jonas88]

Thanks for the replies ! I really appreciate it.I'm graduated with a Frozen ATPL. I'm considering to get my master degree in electro mechanics. Besides that I'm going to keep my licences current and hopefully the market for professional pilots would get better. Is there a chance after getting my master degree to get into Airbus? To help test pilots with data in the cockpit ? I think it's a very excited part of aviation !

kind regards,

Jonas

[portsharbourflyer]

Airbus always have a reasonble intake of graduate engineers each year to the DEG scheme, but it is very unlikey to lead to you getting into the exact department you want to. So while a masters would probably give you a shot a getting onto the Airbus Direct Entry Graduate Scheme , it is very unlikey you would end up in the department that would allow you to do the role you have decribed.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Airbus always have a reasonble intake of graduate engineers each year to the DEG scheme, but it is very unlikey to lead to you getting into the exact department you want to. So while a masters would probably give you a shot a getting onto the Airbus Direct Entry Graduate Scheme , it is very unlikey you would end up in the department that would allow you to do the role you have decribed.

Although a lot of new FTEs probably do start now via graduate entry schemes. So looking to graduate entry at organisations who do significant flight testing (Airbus, Qinetiq, Westlands, BAeS for example) would not be a bad place to start if hoping to become an FTE.

A graduate entry aeronautical engineer with some form of flying licence (I really don't think it matters too much which type of flying - I came in as a microlight pilot, and I know a department head at BDN who came in as a keen glider pilot) and a strong personal interest in flight test, is probably as well placed as anybody can be to move towards becoming an FTE. Although I still think that an MSc would be an advantage, if it is the right MSc.

G