Line training

[JAVIERCP1985]

Hi to everyone, i am thinking to do a line program due i dont see many chances to be hire around the world, i have more than 1000 hours and still not lucky.

Does anybody know any company to offer a line training for b737?
Best Regards.

[de facto]

If you wanna waste your money,waste it on Airbus.....

[captjns]

Reference to Eagle Jethttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/bah.gif...

I hope that you are not a future child of the magenta line who wants instant gratification.

There is no mature self-respecting human being on this planet would subscribe to any of these programs. That said have respect for your peers.


There is no issue with paying for a type rating, as it is not displacing any individuals from the an airline's specific training program.


Now, I do find objection to anyone who pay these so-called reputable training centers, money so they can sit in the right seat of a shiny jet and log time. Log time for what… sitting there watching the scenery pass by. Maybe get a landing or two during their 250 hours of occupying the right seat. How can one justify calling it logable flight time? Why... because $25,000 plus the cost of a type rating was paid? How can “Pay to Play pilot”, with a bit of conscience, sit at the same table with first officer who paid their dues and earned their position?

These miscreants are aiding and abetting in the decline in respect, and of terms of our profession. By aiding and abetting in the decline of our profession they are also feeding airlines additional fodder for the justification of the new generation pilot, the “Pay to Play Pilot”. Shame on these miscreants… shame on the parents who are willing to support their children beyond their CPLs… shame on the flight schools who hawking these disillusioned people and shame on the airlines that endorse and support such programs.

[worldrover]

I can understand your impatience. I will not judge it.

I've been there many years ago, and I've been lucky to be there during a period the big airlines were about to hire, so they did after a while.
There were people paying to fly back then too, big money, logged 500-1000 hours (I personally know a couple with so many)!!!!

When the hiring started they had 5 times more than the rest of us. They never got hired, and they are still hobby pilots, people that spend their parents' money to pretend they are airline pilots to their girlfriends.

I mean, everybody knows in the industry how to distinguish these guys. Maybe some of them got lucky, but otherwise there is no such thing as paid line training!! You are paying so whats the point of going through a line check? Cut you and then send you back to do another 100 hours to learn it right? For a fixed price?

How old are you anyway? Can't you start in some remote turboprop taxi operation? You don't need to fly jets to learn, and there are jobs always, even in this financial environment, just not next door. You might have to fly in Alaska or the Pacific or Africa, but this is the beauty of this profession!

Do not waste your money with these people.-
They are the worst in the industry. Nobody pays to "work". Find an honest aviator that turned businessman and knows how it is to be young and hungry for true flying, and spend a few years there. They will be the best of your career!

Remember, when an airline is going to check your logbook, they will see that at around 1000TT you started flying jets, and they will see the company you flew for..... and they will know how you got there......there is no airline hiring one pilot and then sends him off after 3-6-10 whatever months of flying. You will realize then that you have not only wasted time and money but also probably your career (unless you throw your logbook away) as you have planned it.

Stay away from these programs

[captplaystation]

Javier, the only "paying" you could justify ( & that is really at a push) to yourself ( & finally, you are the ONLY one you have to justify it to, even if many of us here are outraged/sanctimonious) is if you join Ryanair or some other company, who specify. . . pay for the type/reach the standard required/ here is the contract (even if it is "only" as a contractor in the 1st instance.)
Anything else is a waste of time.
Do you realise how many guys are available at this moment to prospective employers ,proud of their 300/500 hrs on a 737/A320 ?. . . it is, really, a VERY big number, & you will NOT be employed any time soon with that experience level as long as a company can instead take a Cadet & earn even more off his back.
Cadet versus you with 300hr on type ? same story, in terms of ability, but the former earns them some more money. . . do not be Blind !
Do not pay for anything without an offer of employment, you are supposed to be intelligent with some power of reasoning. . demonstrate this please.

[pilotbaba]

@JAVIERCP1985

I just want to share with you a story, a TRUE STORY, less than 60 days OLD.....

There is a small airline in Florida, USA operating Beech 1900s. They have been big in the PAY TO PLAY programs in the recent years & were the airline partner of the players, the PAY TO PLAY operators, like Eagle JET.

For the last few years, they were charging anywhere from $25,000 to $33000 US for a SIC Type rating & 300 or 500 hr line training on the Beech 1900. At the end of the so called training, they would absorb some of the pilots but mostly just move to the next batch.

The airline inspite of participating big time in PAY TO PLAY, had to file CH11 Bankruptsy & were bought by a private investment firm a few months ago.

The owners were new, but the management was, by & large the same. They tried to push the same program, couldn't do it with much success. Then they devised a new plan, PAY FOR TRAINING, every applicant would have a $300 deducted from their after tax paycheck for 5 yrs. If anyone left, they would owe the company $25,000.00 USD.

In NOV 2011, at the interview, they would tell their so called PAY FOR TRAINING plan to the pilots who were interviewing & a lot of people said Flat out NO... Some would just simply walk out from the interviews.

It just took 2 or 3 batches of pilots to walk out from interviews & the company changed their policy..... They had an airline to run, Can't do it without Pilots...

All it took, just a handfull of pilots, very low time pilots, may be in the range of 300 TT to 700 hrs TT, to stand up for themselves & make that change happen....... They were Low time, hungry & desperate for flying but stood up for themselves.

Now, as of late Nov 2011, there is NO PAY FOR TRAINING, NO PAY FOR LINE TRAINING, NO PAY ROLL DEDUCTION, PILOTS ALSO GET PAID DURING TRAINING at that company.

The 1st batch of Pilots, under new rules, started their training in the 1st week of December in Orlando, Florida. They will be paid salary from day one, paid hotel during training. Only thing the company asked in return, sign a 2 yr commitment with the company, which is not too harsh.

GULFSTREAM INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES based in Florida USA, changed from being a Pay to Play provider to a more healthy, normal airline in a matter of few months....

My SALUTE to those pilots, who had the courage & took the step, and in my opinion, are no less than any War Heroes....

Have faith, have patience & work hard.. Your days will come one day..
If you have only 10 or 15 yrs left for flying due to age, then it is a different story, but if possible, pls don't encourage the PAY TO PLAY, PAY TO WORK or PAY FOR LINE TRAINING, whatever one calls it.....

If you are thinking what can one person do, pls read the story again, one at a time, all the pilots walked out from the interview & were called back 2 days later........

This is a TRUE story.....

[ReverseFlight]

pilotbaba, I believe your story. 100% of it.

The only problem is that many p2f schemes take place in countries which are deeply corrupt and where the rule of law is not enforced or not practicably enforceable. So what your contract says is really irrelevant.

Nevertheless, hats off to our colleagues in FL.

[dudubrdx]

Funny thing.
I did the exact same thing 2 months ago. I was offered a 500h LT program, which I turned down a first time. They came back to me cutting the price by a third. Still wasn't interested, sent an email saying how much P2F is a disgrace, and then they stopped emailing me.
A whole month later, end of October, a good friend of mine was offered a very nice contract with this company. Word is they were unable to find P2F candidates.
So bottom line is, if nobody gives in to this, it will ultimately disappear. The Airlines using P2F go to companies such as Eagle jet. If they were unable to get pilots fast enough the Ailrines would drop me

ps: In no ways do I feel proud or whatsoever for what I (havn't) done

[powerstall]

That's a pretty good story, Kudos to those pilots who made a stand.
But the big problem is, as others have said are the Pay-to-fly guys. A lot have the mentality of "Hey, i paid for my jet rating, (A320/B737) now where's my freaking brand spanking new shiny jet."
In the past mostly, if not all airlines trained their pilots with just a few years bond and that's about it. Just do your time.
If nobody falls for these traps then nobody would pay for their rating.

Just my two cents worth. :E

[pilotbaba]

@ReverseFlight
Yeah it is true, however, I don't personally know any one of these guys. I just witnessed thsi story unfold at APC one post at a time.....

You can read it too.....

@dudubrdx, Good Show, see you are not alone, there are other around the world who feel the same way......

@powerstall
Yes it is very true that most of these P2F schemes happen in countries with with very little accountabliity but I can see a lot of it Happening in USA as well. Look at the website of Eagle jet & you can see a/c in which they offer line training. It doesn't take long to figure out whether it is Ameriflight or Gulfstream or other Cargo operators....

But I don't discount the frustration of people like the Original poster in this case, when people don't see a light, have no where to go, no path to follow, desperation kicks in & minds starts thinking of other ways ........

[efis4]

avoid anything involving line training with jonas mongenot (but he likes to use different names). You will lose big big money. He has done it to so many.

[captjns]

I remember when Tom Cooper's Gulfstream P2P operation when he was at KFXE with the old Cessna 402s... And that's way back!!!!:eek:!:{

I wonder if any of his little lambs got a ride in his Ryan PT-22 Trainer:suspect:

[break_break]

Folks,
Great stories, and this pretty much sums up a few thoughts for those wannabes.

Don't pay to fly, I know some will jump at first chance available to them, especially from India. I know you're desperate, but don't do it. If you do, and you got lucky, remember that you'd just helped to keep benchmark at a lower datum.

Once you get your first taste of the big toys, remember it ain't over yet. You will still need to hold your fort, stay firm and believe that you're a professional, as much as some twits out there are spoiling it for us. A bond for couple of years commitment to an airline that pays you reasonably is an acceptable arrangement. I know some will argue otherwise, but as said before, some are just jerks that after a sponsored rating and line training, they flee without notice, for whatever excuse they may have.

Finally, remember the Florida story that was kindly shared by pilotbaba, regardless of its genuineness; it's a great story. You should NEVER accept any arrangement for upfront payment in securing training that benefits the company revenue operations. Kill the opportunists who have no sympathy in your situation, regardless.

All the best to your endeavor.