ME or Singapore

[kushagarwal]

Hey guys..
I am an Indian FO with 3000 TT, n 2000+ on the airbus 320 family. I wanna move out of India and have been considering jobs in ME and Singapore.
ME options are between:

Emirates (obviously): best option I guess, but short on experience (they want 2500 on Jets, I got jus over 2000) and out of a lot of ppl i know who went to dubai for selection, a handful only got selected. So not the easiest job to land.

Qatar: read on the forum abt the sad quality of life in doha and the crappy management. the airline expanding though and mayb good growth possible here.

Etihad: Dont have much info on these guys, but apparently a long wait between application and call from the company. Guess would be a good option.

Gulf: Again, not much info.

Flydubai: will have to change my fleet to 737, but they accepting non type rated guys under bond of 3 yrs. Best pay of the lot- close to 38000dhs a month(wow!!). I guess they have roster issues.

Singapore: Attracts me for the quality of life. Awesome weather year round, city is damn clean, infrastructure is amazing, etc etc..deterrent is the cost..very expensive city.

Tiger and Silk Air (Not sure silk air hiring FO though)

Please help me out here. I would like to know abt the payscales, work environment, growth prospects (command upgrade mainly followed by wide body upgrade), lifestyle, roster stablity etc etc.. I dont wanna move from one company to another to find that i have jus changed city and callsign, but am stressed out as ever.

(I m a petrol head, so wanna be able to drive the best cars, and this agn plays against singapore, but not the decider.)

Mayday!!

[cyrilroy21]

I believe these guys have the best pay of the lot if you fly around 80 hours a month

Careers List | Air Arabia (http://www.airarabia.com/careers-list?department=7&location=G9&keyword=&imageField.x=50&imageField.y=9&CSRT=8575254105587267997)

http://www.airarabia.com/pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20First%20Officer%20Salary_Shj%20-%20APR%202011.pdf?CSRT=8575254105587267997

[Fellowship of the drink]

Singapore does have a better lifestyle but can you afford to live that lifestyle ? There is a BIG difference between visiting Singapore for a few days and actually living there.

There is not much to do for free except hang out at malls but at least in Dubai, you don't get slapped with Dhs 15 an hour of car park charges. Public transport is good in Singapore but try getting a cab in the CBD at peak hour (if you can find one) and soon you'll realise its not so cheap anymore.

The good: Food is plentiful, diverse and relatively cheap compared to the middle east. There is a fairly large Indian (as in from India) community in Singapore. Its safe, efficient and one can enjoy a good life there if you can afford the lifestyle.

[kushagarwal]

I believe these guys have the best pay of the lot if you fly around 80 hours a month

Careers List | Air Arabia

Air Arabia (http://www.airarabia.com/pdf/Microso...54105587267997)

Thanks cyrilroy21..the pay is definately quite good..comparable to flydubai..n this would not require a fleet change for me as well..any more insights on the company..

Singapore does have a better lifestyle but can you afford to live that lifestyle ?

Nicely put..guess will rethink singapore for now..

[samjetblaster]

Go to Singapore.Nice place,fair system.Good luck..

[mutt]

How long will you have to wait for command in your present position?


Mutt

[IndAir967]

Pastures look green on the other side but trust me they are plastic.
My suggestion to you: Hold on to your current job until you get your command.
Dont go by the shiny white wide bodies that cross the arabian sea into India
everyday. Life inside is a lot complicated than you think.

[sequel]

How long will you have to wait for command in your present position?

In my current company..a couple of months from the tme they start upgrading. Upgrades on hold now as the company has a severe cash crunch. Downsizing in progress, and tight on funds to book sim slots for training. Might be a couple of of months before they start the upgrade process again.

Please go to Singapore. After a few years, you will come to your senses and move back to India, or even head to the ME.

I didnt follow..do you mean singapore is not a nice place to be..and if I go there then in a cpl of years I will regret moving there. Or do you mean ME or India is better.

My suggestion to you: Hold on to your current job until you get your command.

I agree sir..but getting my commmand in India and doing abt 2000 hrs PIC time, which is a respectable figure will take me atleast 3 years. I eventually want to move out of India. If I do take my command and then move to a company which will accept me as a FO (eg. Emirates), then woule it be a wise move. Why not move jobs now only and then log time in the other company waiting for command there. Plz advice.

[ironbutt57]

Sounds a bit "Kingfishery" to me, you meet the rquirements for most all carriers here in the Gulf..your lifestyle preferences will play a big part in your chioce! Happy hunting!

[Metro man]

As an Indian in Singapore you won't have to put up with the racism you'll get in the Middle East, approximately 7% of the population are of Indian origin. Not the best place for car ownership however, a new Toyota Corolla will set you back nearly US$80 000 and you can easily double that for something a bit more exotic. It's worth bearing in mind you can apply for citizenship in Singapore after a few years, something which will never happen in the sand pit. Forget an expat lifestyle, you'll need to live like the locals to get by particularly as an F/O.

Look at Jetstar and Tiger, low cost with pilot turn over = quick promotion.

Probably better of financially in the M.E. with an expat package, certainly better for car ownership. Air Arabia have been hit hard by FlyDubai, worth looking at EK/EY/QR with Airbus experience there's plenty of info on other threads.

Some pilots move from Singapore to the M.E. and some go the other way, the grass is always greener.;)

[sequel]

Sounds a bit "Kingfishery" to me, you meet the rquirements for most all carriers here in the Gulf

Your money is on the spot!!..
I guess I do meet the requirements, but the main confusion I have is wait for command in India, log 2000odd PIC hrs, and move or move NOW..in the first case I delay moving by abt 3 yrs, but I guess m safe career wise as I would have command time. Also, generally how long wld it tke for command in companies like Tiger, Silk, or EK/EY/QR etc.. (I read the post abt EK command policy change, and tink its a good sign:D)

As an Indian in Singapore you won't have to put up with the racism you'll get in the Middle East. It's worth bearing in mind you can apply for citizenship in Singapore after a few years, something which will never happen in the sand pit. Forget an expat lifestyle, you'll need to live like the locals to get by particularly as an F/O.

The racism bit is very true. As somebody put it nicely- In ME the locals are like God's son's, the whites are Guests and the brown/blacks and everything else is labour. Singapore wins this round.

Cars- Yes, will have to wait it out in Singapore.

Citizenship- Interesting. Am not really familiar with the workings of this. So in Singapore I can apply for PR after a while, but in ME I cant??..is that correct. How long is the waiting before I can apply for PR if Singapore.

Expat Lifestyle- Will definately have to live on a budget if I wanna save a little money in Singapore.

Look at Jetstar and Tiger, low cost with pilot turn over = quick promotion.

Tiger- I heard inductions on hold until Feb/March 2012.
Jetstar- I read on their website they need an Australian ATPL even for Singapore. I got ICAO. The jetstar career page reads:
The minimum requirements for selection across the Jetstar Group are:

Hold an Australian ATPL
Silk Air: Meet their requirements, but not sure they hiring FO.

Probably better of financially in the M.E. with an expat package, certainly better for car ownership. Air Arabia have been hit hard by FlyDubai, worth looking at EK/EY/QR with Airbus experience there's plenty of info on other threads.

ME- pay good, cars and fuel cheap..yipee!!..but wx sucks in comparison to Singapore, plus racism and no PR possibility. one cant have everyting.:ugh:

Flydubai- Nice pay. Accepting non type rated guys. Good for me. But what is the upgrade scene here. How long is the wait before I get my left seat.

Air Arabia- Company run by locals. Heard not the best work environment, though pay is good.

Etihad- Indefinate waiting time from application to call. If called and selected- good option.

Emirates- Best of the lot.

Qatar- Management issues.

Gulf- Again, good bet. But I doubt they taking FO.

Please correct me if my observations are wrong.

[cyrilroy21]

Gulf Air - Hiring Direct entry A320 FO

pilotjobs100 - Latest Pilot Jobs provides the latest aviation vacancies around the world. (http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/pilotjobs100.html)

Two other options in Singapore

SIA Cargo

Welcome to SIA Cargo - Career (http://www.siacargo.com/Career.asp)

And the New FlyScoot - Min 1500 hours Commercial Jet
Send comprehensive CV and picture to [email protected]

If you want a change of scene in India itself AIX is hiring
http://www.airindiaexpress.in/FreeREZ/ADS_WEB/TA/Images/3%20FO-TrC-C%209%2009DEC11%20FINAL.pdf

http://www.airindiaexpress.in/FreeREZ/ADS_WEB/TA/Career.aspx

[ironbutt57]

Gulf Air taking type rated Airbus FO..no racism here..many Indian nationals flying here...:ok:

[sequel]

Will check out gulf air in greater detail..ne inputs abt their salary for a 320 FO..n upgrade policy..

Sing cargo..744..nice..:E..but guess can forget command for a long long tme then..ne possibility to move from sing cargo to SIA..are they connected??

Fly scoot..mmhh..ne more info on these guys plz..so thy based in singapore as well..

Air india express..not too keen..would rather try flydubai in tht case..

[littlejet]

What is the point of your discussion?
Obviously you know all the information. Nobody will make a decision on your behalf. That one is on you. And what's with the two pseudos? 'You for real?

[gcc_]

kushagarwa, seguel,

Not sure why you are using different accounts but I would suggest you make up your mind between the ME or Singapore first.

Everybody has given you exactly what the pros and cons are.
Depends on what you want, what you think is also best for your family, childrens schooling, etc.

Racism in the ME?
Yes to an extent I agree, but depending on where you go.
Within the airline you will be treated just as anyone else normally, but in the country you may see more of it.
Not so much in Dubai though. You see more Indians in Dubai than you see any other (not being racist at all just to clarify).

I would personally apply before even deciding.
EK, EY can be very picky, though I don't know much about Fly Dubai.
GF is an amazing airline to work for, and they are hiring DE F/O's, and I believe even that takes a while.
QR can sometimes take a full year until you finally get employed, regardless of if you're rated with lots of hours on type or not.

Good Luck.

[Che Xindamail]

"How long is the wait before I get MY left seat?"

It is not YOUR seat. Command is NOT an entitlement. It is something you get when and IF you fulfill all the requirements that go along with it.

The command selection procedure and command course here in QR is no picnic. Not all F/Os that fulfill the requirements get selected, but the ones that do, and pass the course, have worked very hard to get the left seat.

A command requires experience, maturity and attitude. Humility also helps. Let that be your starting point instead of dreaming of fancy cars.

[Iver]

I say go for Gulf Air (Airbus), Silkair (Airbus) and Scoot (roll the dice for the 777 LCC operator in Singapore - you might be able to get in early, but don't expect to make much money).

[ironbutt57]

Chill "Chex"..

[tokamak69]

I work for Jetstar Asia in Singapore as A320 FO , and you don't need an australian licence to apply ! There are a lot of pilots coming from Europe, USA, and all over the world.
With your experience you can expect to be upgraded to captain within 6 months ( with a bond of 7500 US $ for 3 years)

As senior FO you will get around 7000 US$ /months , ID80/90 on Qantas and Jetstar after 6 months.

Life in Singapore is awesome but very expensive. Forget about cars, you will take the subway (which is excellent), or taxis.
You can rent a flat with 2 bedrooms in a nice condo for 2500 US$/months.
Food is cheap, except in restaurants.

And there is a big indian community here, then no racism.

[Flyer1015]

Flydubai: will have to change my fleet to 737, but they accepting non type rated guys under bond of 3 yrs. Best pay of the lot- close to 38000dhs a month(wow!!). I guess they have roster issues.



Best pay?

It's a quoted 38,700 dirhams per month, with the following breakdown. It assumes 80 block hours per month, which you may or may not get (could be less).

17,000 Basic
12,000 Housing
1,700 Transport

Fixed monthly = 30,700 dirhams.

Rest is flight pay, 100dirhams/hr, at 80 hrs = 8000 dirhams.

30,700+8000 = 38,700 which is their quoted number for FO.


As an EK FO, you will make more than this. I wouldn't say it's the best pay of the lot.


And as someone already posted, that was a pretty arrogant statement of "when do I get my left seat."

I second this response:

is not YOUR seat. Command is NOT an entitlement. It is something you get when and IF you fulfill all the requirements that go along with it.

The command selection procedure and command course here in QR is no picnic. Not all F/Os that fulfill the requirements get selected, but the ones that do, and pass the course, have worked very hard to get the left seat.

A command requires experience, maturity and attitude. Humility also helps. Let that be your starting point instead of dreaming of fancy cars.

+1

[ironbutt57]

The numbers for FlyDubai are a bit dismal..and guys, give the fellow a break on his "my left seat comment" might be a second language miscommunication, I think we all know by now how the left seat is achieved....calm down children...

[sequel]

hey guys..lots of replies..thanks to all for contributing ur thoughts..

And what's with the two pseudos? 'You for real?
Not sure why you are using different accounts
Simply because I forgot the password of my previous a/c. And I made that back in 2006 so do not remember the email id I used to create it. So made a new one to continue the discussion. If I wanted to use a pseudo then I would not start the thread under one name and then continue under another..that would be plain silly..especially in a forum like this.

What is the point of your discussion?
Obviously you know all the information.
I wish I did..all I know is through heresay..new info is always welcome and the one can never know all.. You will find in this short thread that I already have been corrected couple of time (thanks guys:))..wouldnt be the case if i knew everything..:=

EK, EY can be very picky, though I don't know much about Fly Dubai.
GF is an amazing airline to work for, and they are hiring DE F/O's, and I believe even that takes a while.

Abt EK..as someone observed..they either looking at high time FO or senior Commanders..TRI/TRE types..I will try my luck but the number of guys who got through amongst the one I know who tried is neting but exiting.

Gulf/EY- worth a try I guess.


"How long is the wait before I get MY left seat?"

It is not YOUR seat. Command is NOT an entitlement. It is something you get when and IF you fulfill all the requirements that go along with it.

The command selection procedure and command course here in QR is no picnic. Not all F/Os that fulfill the requirements get selected, but the ones that do, and pass the course, have worked very hard to get the left seat.

A command requires experience, maturity and attitude. Humility also helps. Let that be your starting point instead of dreaming of fancy cars.

I never meant to establish my claim on the left seat. I have utmost respect for the person on my left and I know its not a joyride there. Life is much simpler here on the right side. All I wanted to know is whether they have a command upgrade policy in place and what is the wait before I am eligible. All countries favour locals for upgrades (rightly so) and I definately have the right to think abt my career progression as well.

Experience, Maturity and attitude- I understand the qualities required for the job and wouldnt jump to the left side If i didnt think I was ready..afterall no point starting the command process and realizing midway that one is not ready.

Humility-Fancy cars are not a demand. Just someting I wld lke to have someday- when I can.

I work for Jetstar Asia in Singapore as A320 FO , and you don't need an australian licence to apply !

Thanx for correcting me..:)..are they hiring now..?? Would be nice to work with these guys..

With your experience you can expect to be upgraded to captain within 6 months ( with a bond of 7500 US $ for 3 years)

Thats encouraging..the bond is not a problem.

Life in Singapore is awesome but very expensive. Forget about cars, you will take the subway (which is excellent), or taxis.
You can rent a flat with 2 bedrooms in a nice condo for 2500 US$/months.
Food is cheap, except in restaurants.

Thanks again..The life in Singapore is better in everyway I guess..Expensive.. but one pays for quality everywhere..

As an EK FO, you will make more than this. I wouldn't say it's the best pay of the lot.

Once again..thanks for correcting me..

and guys, give the fellow a break on his "my left seat comment" might be a second language miscommunication, I think we all know by now how the left seat is achieved....calm down children...


Thanks ironbutt57..:D

Ok..things seem to improving back here..thought just a little..the company is sending a cpl of guys for upgrade sims immediately..if they continue I cld get my turn in 2-3 months..If thts the case then I am going to hang around, get command, do abt 2000 hrs and then move once for good..Ne comments on that..

[Iver]

Check out Scoot (SIA LCC) and get a 777 rating out of it...

[Iver]

"And you'll be able to buy your four-wheeled penis-extension, thereby fitting right in."

Now that is HILARIOUS and very true... Isn't that also what the EK 777 pilots say about the A380 pilots?

[sequel]

JAARule..I am not the one who suggested racism in ME, so go easy on your comments..the point you are trying to make is well taken, but the sarcasm is uncalled for..:=

Four wheeled penis extension..hilarious..:ok:

About me being grammatically challenged..I might not hold a doctorate in literature..which probably you do..but I am no slow coach either..the moderators dont approve a post based on its grammatical correctness..nor do I run a spell check or thesaurus before posting something..a job I guess you are trying to do..well done I must say..only that you are in the wrong forum for that.:ugh: