European VLJ Charter Operators

[Cirrustratus]

Dear all,

I am researching the European VLJ charter market to help establish whether there is suitable demand for a fractional ownership programme that I am looking at establishing with my company.

Would anyone have any information about the hours being flown by VLJ charter operators over the last 12 months or so, in particular Eclipse 500 operators such as Jet Ready of Spain? I've tried searches on here and search engines with no results, and flight aware hasn't been much use either.

Any information would be very much appreciated.

Kind regards,


Adrian Parsons
Cirrustratus Aviation Services

[LGW Vulture]

:ugh:There must be something in the water........!

I don´t believe I´m reading this! :ugh::rolleyes:

[Pace]

LGW

I don´t believe I´m reading this!


Enlighten us :E seems a pretty reasonable question to ask!

"Ask no questions and you will get no answers!"

Pace

[frontlefthamster]

Among the thoughts probably running through the vulture's grey matter I would like to isolate one...

How often before has a pretty impressive 'save' in one thread been followed so rapidly with such an impressive own goal elsewhere?

Pace, perhaps you truly believe that 'there are no stupid questions'? :)

Perhaps the following recent post in another thread by the same poster (as I understand it - he said in the other thread that he uses both profiles), gives a flavour of his present commercial success:

Hello All,

I appreciate that this is a long-shot due to my relative lack of experience, but I also know you never get if you never ask!

I hold an FAA Commercial licence with Instrument AMEL rating and currently have 580 hours total time. I have gained some useful real-world experience over the last few of years; my last three hundred hours or so have been primarily spent flying single-pilot IFR ferrying high performance singles (mainly Cirrus SR-22 Turbos) around Europe.

I am looking for that elusive first break into the world of paid aviation employment, and would welcome the opportunity to fly absolutely any aircraft under a freelance, contract or full-time arrangement. I am based near Oxford but spend a lot of time in Berlin, and I am quite happy to travel anywhere in Europe for a flying position.

I am not looking for a fast-track into the RHS of an Airbus or Boeing; I enjoy flying anything I can get my hands on, and would consider myself very lucky to be considered for any opportunities that might be available.

If anyone has any leads or openings that they could inform me about I would be extremely grateful!

Kind regards,


Adrian

[Pace]

I am being a tad naughty as I saw Adrian's impressive SR20 website.
He was slated for offering illegal charter in the way that it was formed.
Now he is looking at the Eclipse!
Really I can see what Adrian is trying to achieve which is to sell shares or whatever in. Legal way which isn't illegal charter which can be done.
He is obviously trying to get some idea on whether the Eclipse is a goer.
Having read the SR22 thread maybe his question should revolve around legal and illegal charter plus the big grey areas as that is what he needs to get clear.
The aircraft choice ?? Hmmm?
But yes things to talk about. He did a good job of constructing his web site !
and has a lot of enthusiasm.

Pace

[Cirrustratus]

LGW_Vulture, I presume you are referring to my post on the 'seeking employment' thread; if it comes across as amateurish or otherwise represents me in a bad light, then I shall remove it, but why not just simply say that instead of getting all dramatic and cryptic?

As an individual I am looking to expand my flying experience, and as the director of a company I am investigating the demand for a potential fractional ownership programme utilising a VLJ type which I believe there might be a market for... I fail to see what is so unbelievable about that?

I am not afraid to admit to my relative lack of experience; that is not to say that I do not have the experience necessary to professionally and properly run a company and to be a good pilot, which I most certainly do. I have a decent amount of experience in the aviation world both in operations and flying, but I also appreciate that there is still a lot that I do not know, and I am always looking to expand my knowledge. Better that attitude than that of an arrogant know-it-all 'skygod' don't you think?

As for my commercial success, how well do you think a brand new company will be doing at this time of year and in this climate? It is quiet out there right now, and as such I am looking for any other flying opportunities that might be available to help keep food on the table. Is that so unreasonable?

So, getting this thread back on track, would anyone have any information to share with regards to my original enquiry?

Kind regards,


Cirrustratus

[LGW Vulture]

I can´t answer your original question but the way you ask makes it look like your knowledge base is so limited. If you don´t know how many hours these operators are flying then you should be nowhere near heading a project with this concept in mind! Number 2, there is only one operator of EA500s in Europe for charter and that is the operator you mention - based in Valencia Spain which is acutely suffering terribly from the current financial chaos. No-one else is doing it which therefore speaks volumes. Ambeo went down months ago struggling with owenship of aircaft in an already bloated supply side market - Blink have most of their fleet for sale!

And finally, how many billions has WB pumped into his little frax operation NetJets over the years just to only recently show an "operating profit" in the US. And to finish, why does frax work over there more than it does anywhere else in the world? If you can´t answer that question, your entrenpreneurial skills are probably best used elsewhere.

[4100ft]

WOW!!! Here comes a guy who really wants to make a go of things. He is trying desperately to be really honest (and humble) and is asking for help!! (in whatever form)and what do you do -KNOCK him to the ground!!

LGW I have been reading your posts and think I know why you are so negative towards the VLJ market. If you are who I think you are remember this - those Mustangs were good to you when you so desperately needed a job. They saved your mortgage at the time, so come on, stop slating it just because you were not able to make it work!!!!!! for you or anyone else :ugh:

My mother always taught me if you have nothing nice to say then just DON'T say anything!!!

[LGW Vulture]

4100ft, don´t try and hound me using a different user name. VLJs have never been good to me, I don´t have a mortgage on either of the two properties I own and indeed, I haven´t even lived in the UK for three years. I´ve also ran my own company now for some ten years, rather successfully! :ouch:

[4100ft]

Very impressive! Thanks for clearing that up. Now try and be a little more postive and help those a little less fortunate than you.

[No RYR for me]

@4100
why you are so negative towards the VLJ market.

Let's spin the coin tell us what a VLJ can do that a good CJ1 or 2 cannot do. Lets talk range, comfort, price. There you go: you have the answer why a lot of people don't see the VLJ market taking off... that is not negative... It's called common sense..

Too many dreamers have entered the industry on the VLJ hype and when they learned the real cost of operating (not the stuff the manufacturs tells you) and the real revenues you get (not the stuff you dream about in spreadsheets) they left the industry with many broken dreams and careers in their wake... :rolleyes:

[Pace]

No RYR

Let's spin the coin tell us what a VLJ can do that a good CJ1 or 2 cannot do. Lets talk range, comfort, price. There you go: you have the answer why a lot of people don't see the VLJ market taking off... that is not negative... It's called common sense..

I agree with your comments up to a point!!! I would for the money go for the CJ1 a few years old!
As AOC aircraft VLJs are not a good option.
The piston twin market has collapsed due to the high cost of Avgas and the relatively slow speeds of piston twins.
The once lively market in light turboprops doesnt exist other than the dated KingAirs.
As a market for the owner pilot VLJs should fill the gap and that is where Adrian would be better casting his attention.
Operating a VLJ for 4-5 owners who want more than a single but cannot afford a full blown jet!
Pilots who used to fly aircraft like the Conquest 1 etc.
There was talk of new low powered, low cost turbines prop and jet!!!
As a potential owner I too would buy into a 5 year old CJ1 with good residuals rather than an unnkown and untested on residuals and not backed by a long established company new VLJ and there lies part of the problem.

Pace