Questions about Qatar 787 Ramp Up

[Iver]

Can anyone update us on the "expected" ramp-up of 787s at Qatar Airways?

The last estimate I saw was first delivery in Q1 2012. Still true? I realise this is dependent upon Boeing as well. Any further estimates on delivery rate - how many "expected" in 2012 and 2013? Any initial 787 routes named?

At what point would QR start to hire onto the 787? Have pilots already begun training for it? I had heard that a 787 sim was already being prepared in Doha.

Cheers for any updates. I guess we should assume that any previous schedule is questionable with Boeing delays likely.

[Hajj Man]

Why are you asking all these questions? you seem to know more than the rest of us.

HM :ok:

[Large fries]

Delays on all 787 deliveries, those with GE engines (as is Qatar order) particularly long delays, Qatar's first 787 is no LN61, my guess would be late 2012

[qvintus53]

Arabian Aerospace - Qatar Airways looks forward to first Dreamliner delivery in June 2012 (http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/qatar-airways-looks-forward-to-first-dreamliner-delivery-in-june-2012.html)

[Strangeways Southpaw]

The first aircraft is supposed to land in Doha on June 12th.
There will be a post delivery modification carried out between the delivery from Boeing and the arrival in Doha.

[Large fries]

The press statement states that they will "most probably" be first to fly 787 into Europe, ANA who have 2 787 with delivery imminent on at least 3 more have already given flight schedule for Japan-Frankfurt starting on January 21st.

[hotline330]

QR management is still can't believe in their FD crew to fly the A330-340 and B777, so I am still wondering WHO IS GOING TO FLY IT?

THE A/C is coming in June for a total of 4 in 2012 then 8 every year.



Fly Safe,

[TURIN]

It's all gone very quiet.

Any news?

[vuelomd]

First aircraft expected in the property by June 2012. After that, 12 more expected to join through 2012. Initially they will be deployed in the Gulf until some operational experienced obtained, then will be assigned to the LHR route, five roundtrips a day, so they will deploy five airplanes just on that route.

[FlyingEagle21]

First aircraft expected in the property by June 2012. After that, 12 more expected to join through 2012. Initially they will be deployed in the Gulf until some operational experienced obtained, then will be assigned to the LHR route, five roundtrips a day, so they will deploy five airplanes just on that route.

So QR will withdraw their 77W and A346 from LHR and replace them with 787s. Surely reducing capacity? I heard QR will be deploying their A380s on the LHR route once they get them. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[TURIN]

Thanks for that. So it won't be coming to MAN anytime soon then?

[Iver]

Understanding the first birds won't arrive until June/July, how soon might we expect to see hiring onto the 787 at QR? By latter summer or early fall? What is the earliest that they might look externally to fill right seats?

Or, will "eligible" A320, A330 pilots (i.e., no training bond obligation on that fleet) get first dibs and bid it before externals get a chance? What is the most likely scenario? Take internal or hire external pilots (with some internals) as the first 5-10 aircraft arrive? :cool:

[gdukkoq]

12 ? Where did you read that ? I Heard 5 in 2012 coming starting in june.

[THR MCT]

Latest News B787 at Qr
5 A/C from Jun 2012
8 every year till total of 30
Crewing mainly external PILOT, new joiners, ab initios from flying clubs
the first 3 A/C from the B777 TRI, TRE.

Fly high and fast and stay safe all the time

Tm:E

[A300Man]

First flights will be to DXB and RUH.

[gdukkoq]

First 3 filled only by TRI/E or with also some unqualified FO?

[Iver]

Would certainly be interesting to get hired onto the 787 at QR (lucky timing for a newhire I guess). :cool::ok::} Sure, not many 787s flying and you could argue not good for job security as a newhire. Then again, it sounds like a "career" airplane in terms of technology and everything you fly after the 787 (i.e., back to the A320 or maybe to a 737-800 at another airline) would be a technological step backwards... Even the 777 cockpit looks dated in comparison - I presume it pays better than the 787 at QR. :D

Photos: Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/Boeing-787-8-Dreamliner/2082595/L/%26sid%3d3f346e310f896e28e5b01a83fe816324)

I would think that the A320 pilots at QR would be clammering to fly the 787 given the crazy/exhuasting rosters they have (note previous roster thread for examples). Is that not the case? Why would an A320 FO at QR who has the ability to move from that fleet not bid/request the 787? Are pilots able to bid other fleet types or are they assigned based on more subjective criteria (i.e., kissing a$$)? How does that fleet bidding work?

At least you could get some decent layovers in London on the 787 once the regional flying (crew training) on the 787 is completed. If not, I guess QR should be a place you apply to if you are really motivated to someday fly the 787 - you might get hired onto it! :ok:

[spearomic]

I'm starting in may, and I was suppose to be on the 320, now they tell me that they will advise for the fleet, every time I ask, they say stby for fleet... hoping to land on the 787... but i'm still very pleased with any type

[Iver]

Perhaps applicants with Boeing widebody experience (757/767) will have a leg-up on open 787 slots? You never know...

Still, I do not understand why internal A320 FOs who have the experience/seniority wouldn't get first dibs - especially if so many external A320-rated pilots are being hired now - including those from Spanair, Mexicana, TAM and others...

Anyone know the process for QR pilots - how does one bid/request another fleet type once the training bond is paid off, etc.? Can QR pilots bid other fleet types - or are people selected based on certain criteria? What's the process?

Cheers

[80-87]

F/Os of 320 don't want to be re-bonded because of another type and furthermore, a few senior F/Os are nearing Captain upgrade and don't want to lose the opportunity.

[thib017]

That's not sure that pilots with Boeing 757/767 experience will be prefered to go on the 787.

I've 757 experience and should start on the 777 :O as some ex-colleagues.
Hope it won't change...

[Iver]

80-87,

Interesting. Are you implying that any fleet transfer requires a new training bond at QR? And, as a result, movement among fleets doesn't happen much? If that is the case, then I feel sorry for the many newhires joining the A320 fleet where the current rosters seem ridiculous and exhausting (read the recent thread related to A320 rosters). :mad::eek::ugh::{:yuk: Why would you want to be trapped on that fleet when newer airplanes with more layovers, etc. are available on other fleets?

As a helpful reminder, here is the roster posted by a current QR A320 pilot:

Here is another actual roster.
Again, all times are based on DOHA which is where your body clock will be.

Day 1. off
Day 2. report 0630, Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 3. report 0035, one sector for layover in India, land at 0615.
Day 4. wake-up-call 0400, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 5. report 0035, one sector for layover in India, land at 0615.
Day 6. wake-up-call 0400, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 7. report 0040 for regional turn-around, land DOH 0610.
Day 8. off
Day 9. report 1515 for three-sectors, Gulf turn-around, followed by layover India.
Day 10. land at outstation 0130 (layover), wake-up-call 2330.
Day 11. land DOH 0620. followed by 17hrs 25min rest.
Day 12. report 0015, regional turn-around, land DOH 0620.
Day 13. report 1115, regional turn-around, land DOH1940.
Day 14. off
Day 15. off

They actually gave me duty on my day off on day 14 (without asking), but I reported sick for that day.

You will get a pattern like this almost every month.

Apparently that type of roster is typical on the Airbus fleet. I guess that type of roster is great for someone who lost a flying job (i.e., Spanair and Malev pilots) who wants to keep flying. I suppose that QR wants the airline to be an interim step for pilots as opposed to a long-term career - no?

Can anyone confirm that there is basically no bidding between fleets at QR? What if you are assigned a new fleet - do you get the training bond even if you do not wish to leave your existing fleet? I guess getting assigned the "right" fleet at QR can make the difference between a good life and a not-so-good life because apparently it is difficult to move. So, do your homework, PM pilots on all fleets to understand the pros/cons of each fleet and request a good fleet if you have the experience/hours (and QR really wants you)!

thib017,

It was pure speculation on my part based on the fact that there are many unemployed 757/767 drivers out there and the 767 and 787 are similarly sized (probably share some flight characteristics too). Sorry to hear that you are too good for the 787. :D:}:confused: Why on earth would you want to fly this:

JetPhotos.Net Photo » N787BX (CN: 40692) Boeing Company Boeing 787-881 Dreamliner by Oliver P. (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7337012&nseq=4)

QR only plan on ordering 60 787s (including exercised options). I hope your 777 dreams come true. :ok:

[thib017]

Did I say that I was too good for the 787 ?!?
No!
I just said that SOME guys with 757/767 experience are not going to fly this airplane...maybe not true for all the others!
The 777 is for me perfect... as the 787 would have be as well...just don't like the airbus philosophy, but it's my point of vue...
I just replied to one of your post, who is the principle of a forum.
But, I Hope you'll get your 787 Iver ;)

[Deep and fast]

That is truly a roster from hell after a corporate schedule :}

D and f

[80-87]

Wonder if there will be a change to FTL scheme?

[Iver]

thib017,

Clearly my sarcasm is not translated well across languages. I have been told my sarcasm is not understood in my own language. :p

Obviously the 777 fleet would be a great fleet to be on, and former 757/767 drivers would do well there. My point was that the 787 fleet "should" be good as well given the growth in that fleet (if a total of 60 join the fleet with options) and the route possibilities given its performance. With that said, Al Baker has noted that the 787 might not be used to its full range potential (flights from Doha to the US West Coast) because of cargo capacity and constraints. The 777 200LR performs better than the 787 on longer range flights considering its cargo-carrying ability and additional seats. Still, it should be interesting to watch how the 787s are deployed as more arrive over time - could be some interesting route pairings.

Seriously, have fun on the 777 fleet. :ok: Certainly beats the rosters on the A320 if those sample rosters are true...

[Black Pudding]

Iver

What makes you think the rosters on the 777 are better than the 320 if you're a FO. Its not

What's makes you think everyone on the 320 fleet is unhappy and want to change fleet, maybe some, but not all.

What makes you think everyone on the 777 are happy bunnies, trust me, they're not.

What makes you think most 320 drivers want to to go the 787. Some do, but not all. Command is more important.

You never mentioned the 330 or 300 fleet ? You're not being a snob are you LOL

The fleet you get offered and what fleet you line check on may be 2 different ones. Until you line check, you never know

No matter what fleet your on, you work hard here, some slightly than others unless your on the 300s freighters

Changing to a bigger jet here is not always the answers to someone's ambitions. If you change fleet, you stuck for a while again and those behind you may jump to command before you.

Size here means nothing in pay. It just means that the larger the aircraft you fly, more often when you wake up, you ask yourself if its morning or evening, what day is it and where am I LOL

I would say the 777s FOs work hardest followed by 320. 3rd place would be 330 guys then 340s and then 300s. Others may think differently.

If anyone is thinking coming here is going to be a holiday, think again. You're here to work, fly planes and earn money. Its not a commuting job at all. No one cares. If you don't like it, you can hand your notice in and leave.

I am as happy as can be and have no plans to leave at the moment. Take each day as it comes and get on with it.

Be prepared to work hard, lots of night flying and minimum rest. Depends on what other jobs you have done before hand as to whether you are going to be happy here. Some love it, some hate it. The things to remember are you are coming here to work for Qatar Airways and nothing more. What the rule is today may not be the rule tomorrow. The fleet you get offered even after you arrive may not be the fleet you line check on. I think you will find in your contract something about they reserve the right to change which fleet they put you on due to commercial needs or something. Sometimes, that can work as a blessing in disguise. Get these points into your head and you will be ok.

I must admit, If I came here and got the 787, I would also be a very happy chappy. No matter which fleet you get, you will work hard unless you get the 300 freighters. I am guessing if and when they go, those guys will get bigger and better things.

320, its the future LOL

Seriously, have fun on the 777 fleet. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif Certainly beats the rosters on the A320 if those sample rosters are true... This makes me LOL

And what you have flown before will have no bearing on what you will get here. Supply and demand on fleet is the deciding factor.. A friend of mine joined a few months ago. 200 hours out of school. He thought he was going 320. First day in work, got told he was being changed to 330 as they needed him on that fleet LOL

[Iver]

Black Pudding,

What you say makes sense and I always appreciate the candor in your posts. You provide a great "check" against applicant optimism.

You are correct - I don't work at QR (yet - I certainly may apply once I become competitive and I am on track to do so in the next year). I know people have varying opinions about specific fleets and specific rosters.

Clearly working at QR is not easy or for the faint of heart - the sample A320 roster I posted is clear evidence of that. QR is not operated like Southwest Airlines in the States where everyone holds hands and sings together... QR is run hard like a business and people are not the top consideration. If the airplanes could be flown purely by robots I am sure that would happen at QR. I too have heard that the 777 fleet can have challenging/exhausting rosters as well. Newhires will have to do their homework before moving to QR and come with their eyes WIDE OPEN.

The purpose of my 787 threads @ Qatar is that, as a new fleet with superb capabilities, there are interesting route pairings likely. Intra-Gulf and London have been announced so far, but with 60 potential 787s on the property within 5 years or so, you could get some interesting (but also exhausting) rosters. What is interesting is the possibilities of how the 787 could be deployed.... That's my point. :}:cool:

Some people might prefer predominately short haul flying and the A320 might be more appealing in that case. Some people have flown LCC Airbus in Europe and the thought of mutli-local sectors would not be appealing - so, A330, 787 or 777 would be more of a draw. For me, I would prefer the latest technology (in addition to opportunity to make money) - but that is my personal preference.

I agree that switching fleet types at the last moment (i.e., originally given 777 and then assigned A320) would be unnerving - but it happens. I have heard the same happens at EK - you think you get the beautiful 777 and then you get the A330 and the associated night-turns to India every night. If this happens frequently, then I would call that "bait and switch" if you have already signed on the dotted line. What a terrible and depressing way to start employment where your flying and customer-service skills are deemed so important.

Another apparent and disappointing fact of life at QR is the additional training bonds if you wish to change fleets after a set period of time (perhaps fulfilling the time on your original bond). That would be a big negative in my book - I understand the economics aspect, but that does not promote career longevity at QR if people are truly unhappy on a specific fleet and have the "seniority" or tenure required to make a fleet jump. Some airlines require only a few fleet changes during your career - but at least you can make a jump without an economic penalty hanging over you. Clearly jumping fleets every 2 years is too expensive.

So, fleet allocation at QR sounds incredibly important if you are predisposed to a certain type of flying. Do you want to see the world? A320 probably not the best fleet for that. Given that the 787 could be a fast growing fleet over the next few years (if secure all 60 787 positions) and it's flight capabilities are extensive (fantastic range and flight economics), my feeling is that being allocated to that fleet could be very interesting. Plus, the advanced technology would make it even more interesting - for me. :ok::cool: That said, I am sure the 787 pilots will be worked like dogs just like the 777 pilots - again, QR is a business first...

[Eye off the ball]

An odd obsession with an airline that you don't even work for. If you're going to dream, you may as well dream about somewhere nice to work. You'll find if you end up working for QR one day that the number of Pilots who say "I always wanted to work for QR" can be counted on one hand. Everyone has a story for why they ended up at QR but I'll wager they all dreamed of working someplace else.

The constant attachment of a 787 or 777 flight deck photo in your posts and meaningless smilies everywhere smacks of someone seduced by new screens up front. Trust me, with a few hours under your belt, you'll realise that the veneer of excitement flying a new ac wears off in a couple of months. Lifestyle is king and for that reason, fantasising about QR and posting about it more than any of those actually working there do is just plain weird.

That ggudoq fella is another odd one but at least he's joining.

I'm not trying to be offensive or wind you up but honestly, a fleet of new ac has nothing to do with a rewarding or satisfying career. An airline with a PSA and a Union would be a good place to start if you don't want to be treated like cr*p. Oh and a pension. Probably not important to you now but when you're 60, you'll wonder why you were so seduced by new airplanes when you were a kid whilst you're working out where the money will come from when you retire.

[Strangeways Southpaw]

The latest information is that the first aircraft will deliver from Seattle to the modification site in early June. The aircraft is then supposed to land in Doha at the very start of July. The chief has made it known that if the first aircraft isn't in Qatar by the start of July the airline has the right to cancel the entire order.

From the five deliveries scheduled for 2012 it is expected that only three will arrive this year.

[Large fries]

Qatar scheduled to take delivery of their 1st. 787 on August 22nd.

[Iver]

Has anyone confirmed whether the 787 deliveries in 2013 will be consistent (i.e., one per month) or spread out? How many now expected in 2013 and 2014 out of 30 firm orders? :confused:

Also, are A320 drivers being given training slots on the 787 right now as some have suggested? Would be a nice change... :ok:

[Large fries]

Qatar 2nd. 787 delivery scheduled for 27th. September but the 787 deliveries are all subject to various delays, things might change.

[Strangeways Southpaw]

The transfer of title of the first QR 787 is now scheduled for August 26th.
The aircraft will go for retrofit activity around 28/8 and should arrive in Qatar around 27/9.

Expect all follow-on aircraft to be delayed.

[Iver]

Just found a nice picture for those QR A320 pilots waiting in line for the move over to the 787. Looks like a nice office...:ok::}


ET-AOQ - Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner at In Flight | ID 234823 | Airplane-Pictures.net (http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/234823/et-aoq-ethiopian-airlines-boeing-787-8-dreamliner/)

[ManaAdaSystem]

Have you found a nice 787 for your flight simulator yet?

[Emma Royds]

With the 787 being one of the smaller members in size of the QR long haul fleet, I can't help but think that once the honeymoon period is over, this bird is not going to visit a vast number of major capital cities around the globe. When looked at simplistically, big cities mean more people travelling which mean bigger aircraft. The 777, 346 and 380 (when it comes) will pip the 787 on capacity.

The 787 is probably going to be ideal for operating to airports that will create the response 'Wow - I never thought QR would ever fly there!'.

[safelife]

...like the A319LR was.

[Emma Royds]

The 319LR seems to visit a few major European capitals and pleasant ones by the sounds of it too?

I would suspect that secondary cities in the US plus South America could be real rich pickings for the QR 787. Perhaps it is just me but it seems to be too small an aircraft to be used to the likes of Oz and NZ?