Tornado GR1 question?

[jackaroo747]

Hi All

Just out of curiosity after reading 'Team Tornado' and 'Tornado Down' I have a few questions about the GR1.

First, what is its range on internal fuel? As in with no EFTs? With four it can do 2,417, but what about if it was flying 'without bags?'

The second is, how fast could it really go? I have searched around and heard it can do 920 at sea level, but what about 'clean' at altitude? Some sources have stated 1700+ mph, is this true?!

And finally, is it equipped with just a Terrain Following Radar, or can the radar also detect enemy aircraft?

Regards,
Jack

[Mach Two]

Careful with this. Capability of a current type.

[Lima Juliet]

Jack

The GR1 never had its ramp intakes connected so M1.15 was about its top-end - unlike F3 which did have the ramps connected and could make M2.0 (M2.15 was my personal best in a jet straight off the tanker with no LAUs fitted). So 1,700mph+ is plain wrong. At low level 920mph would be possible in a GR1 with the smaller engines and I've been at 870kts at low level in a F3 with 2 winders and 2 skyflash and only the crew becoming the limiting factor (chicken!) - again the F3 was quicker than the GR1 at low level, but it should give you an idea.

As for range, the internal fuel of a GR1 is about 5100kgs and an average fuel burn of about 50-60kgs per minute at medium level at around 360-400kts TAS - so that would give you about 100 minutes at around 6-7nm per minute or a range of about 600-700nm. Again the F3 had an O-tank fitted behind the nav's head that gave about another 10-15 minutes of internal fuel - or enough for burner take off and climb to 10-15kft before cracking into the normal fuel tanks that both types shared.

Now the GR4 has different engines, 1 gun less and a different drag profile underneath so it would be different in performance to the GR1 - plus as M2 says this is a current type so it's off limits for discussion.

I hope this helps?

LJ

[SRENNAPS]

Now the GR4 has different engines

Could you enlighten me please as my belief was that the early Tonka GR1s had Mk 101 RB199s. Later GR1s had Mk 103s and these were exactly the same donks used in the GR4s. Only the F3 had Mk 104s.

Luftwaffe ECRs are/were fitted with RB199 Mk.105 engines, some of which we borrowed during GW1.

[just another jocky]

A few points to clear up:

@Leon - the GR1 did have the intake ramps connected, but was limited to M1.3 AFAICR. They were wire-locked shut sometime early 90's I think, same with the Kreuger flaps. 920kts is a bit optimistic. I did a tour at TTTE at Cottesmore flying clean GR1's (no pylons either). It was a real sportscar but 900kts - no chance (unless I was an even bigger wimp :sad:). Supercruise? - yes, occasionally. But with double the thrust in reheat, why sit in dry power? :ok: Yr fuel burn figures are slightly pessimistic for the TTTE jets; they were quite slick. Never flew a truly clean GR4, only managed clean but with pylons on test flights so more drag.

@SRENNAPS - the GR1 was fitted with Mk103's for the frontline sqns (TTTE never got 103's) and that is the current engine on GR4's. There have been some modifications but they're basically the same.

HTH.

edit: The GR1 & 4 have 2 radars in the nose: a TFR as you state and a GMR and yes, the GR1 GMR could detect fighters. ;)

[SRENNAPS]

just another jockey,

Just to clarify further and I am not trying to be a smart @rse honest.

Yes you are correct when you say TTTE only had Mk 101s as did TWCU when it first formed.

However 9 Sqn at Honington (before they moved to Bruggen) and the earlier Sqns at RAF Laarbruch also had Mk 101s. The first Mk 103s were first introduced to 20 Sqn (newly established at Laarbruch following disbandment of the Jags at Bruggen) and the formation of 31 Sqn at Bruggen ( I was posted onto the Sqn, after I left TTTE, to help form it back in 84 and it was a whole new ball game with respect to MECU and reheat curve setups etc.)

Finally, please do not tell a Rolls Royce person that that the Mk 101and the Mk 103 are basically the same engine or they won’t buy you any beers:):)

[just another jocky]

SRENNAPS - my bad, what I meant was that the 103 originally fitted and the current 103, whilst they do have some differences/improvements, are basically the same engine. Not the 101 & the 103.

I was clearly a latecomer to the force as I only joined my first sqn in '87.

[standardset]

When I did the airtests at Bruggen 1985,86 the ramps were tested by accelerating to M1.4 then turning hard to reduce to M1.1 . Never went faster than that, but low level M1.3 was not difficult to achieve.

[SRENNAPS]

just another jocky

Ah, sorry.

I was clearly a latecomer to the force as I only joined my first sqn in '87.

But in time to see the start of some very interesting times....good, bad and sad :ok::}:(

[jackaroo747]

Thanks for replying guys, and bringing a lot to light, but it has sprouted more questions, I have several. I'm really into the Cold War era Tornado and would like to know more about it :8

I did mean 920mph not 920kts if this clears anything up, the Press (Shouldnt trust them I know) has stated in some sources the F3 can hit 1700 so this is obviously wrong; I assume it is around 1500, in mph, as you guys have also said in knots and Mach Number.

And I am aware the fuel consumption increases fivefold or tenfold when you go supersonic, so thats 60kg per minute at normal power but six hundred at supersonic speeds - You'd be dry pretty fast wouldn't you?! The GR1 crews must have hated getting bounced!

So the GR1 could do 920 miles per hour at low level. Being a bit old-fashioned and stubborn, I work in miles as opposed to knots, Mach number etc. Would the speed change at altitude? As in at twenty thousand? Assuming the aircraft was 'clean' without tanks?

I see it's all about fuel. The only time you have too much is when you're on fire. When you tank, can you 'refill' the external tanks from the tanker? As in controlling the fuel flow to the wing tanks as opposed to internal? And would the pilot or nav do this?

Some of these questions may sound obvious. I apologize for my ignorance but I am not as 'switched on' and I'm just a spotter not a pilot :O

[Easy Street]

I'm even more of a latecomer (1990s!!) and have seen a couple of mods to the Mk 103 over that time, notably a reprofiled compressor a few years back. Something to do with squeezing a bit more medium-level performance out of the old girl. There has often been talk of fitting the ex-F3 Mk 104s for the same reason, but I must confess to being ignorant of the technical issues involved.

The most notable thing for me over the 20-odd years I've been associated with the jet is the ingenuity with which the original systems architecture (focussed on low-level TFR strike ops) has been modified and tweaked to the point that the aircraft remains at the forefront of modern conflicts. I don't consider the GR1-GR4 upgrade as much of a step change as was Jag GR1-GR3; in fact the OEM software on early GR4s was, in some ways, a backwards step from the final iteration of GR1. Once the in-service software team got properly stuck into the GR4 we have not looked back; much of the GR4's increased capability has been added piecemeal over the years through small hardware and software mods since the mid-life update was completed. Overall quite a good bit of work.

[AGS Man]

Not sure if this is of use to you but IIRC from my time on TTTE eons ago the German and Itallian Tonkas had an extra internal tank in the fin. No idea of it's capacity tho. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[SRENNAPS]

the German and Itallian Tonkas had an extra internal tank in the fin

AGS man, yes sorry your information is incorrect. It was our (British) Tornados that had the Fin Tank and it held 440Kg of fuel……made all the difference. Had a few problems with them over the years, but to my knowledge they are all back in service now.

A new term was introduced with the Tornado when you had too much to drink, it was called “Fin F”:O:O

[AGS Man]

Thanks SRENNAPS, as I said it was a long time ago and I think the local brew must be rotting the old grey matter! The German Tonkas were the ones with the ejecting Flight Recorders, recall a few being left in deepest Wales!

[HTB]

AGS

The lack of fin tank/fuel enabled the Germans (and presumably the Italians as well) to park with wing sweep at 45 (CofG consideration), thus saving a little bit of space in the HAS.

Jack

Depending on mission profile, you would fill every available cavity (well, fuel tanks anyway) with fuel, including external tanks (worth mentioning that fitting larger wing tanks limited the rearward wing sweep). All the fuel controls were in the front cockpit - the nav had only a total reading on a TV Tab - so the nav's contribution to AR was to make soothing noises to the pilot as he jousted manfully with probe to drogue.

Mister B

[jackaroo747]

Thanks for clearing that up everyone.

Unfortunately it has sprouted more questions :O

So how fast could the mighty fin go at altitude? with or without pylons, 'clean' ?
The press say 1700 mph but obviously this is not right, not that I trust them, they had a caption for a picture of a GR4 and labelled the wing tanks as anti-runway weapons!

And is the ferry range of 2,420 miles correct then..?

[jamesdevice]

isn't this pushing the boundaries of what is a legitimate question?
see post 2

[jackaroo747]

Ignore my ignorance, what do you mean?

[jamesdevice]

see post 2

[jackaroo747]

Ah :O Just curiosity to be honest

[30mRad]

Jackaroo - check your PMs.

[AGS Man]

Thanks for the info HTB, never knew that. The lack of fin tank and obviously lack of extra weight didn't stop I 40 ending up on its Ar$e after trying to slingshot out of the RHAG!!!

[HTB]

Probably had his toes on the brakes.

[SRENNAPS]

BGG

Yes sorry it was an “in joke”. The Fin Fuel Tank did not have a gauge. All it had was a light in the cockpit that indicated:

“Fin E” – The Fin was empty
“Fin” – to indicate fuel was transferring
and
“Fin F” – The fin was full

You always watched for this light when refuelling. Therefore when you got totally hammered at a beer call you had achieved “Fin F” :)

AGS man,

We had a few beeps going off in the ASF Hangar as well:)

[just another jocky]

Some outstanding times and some outstanding people. :ok: 48-ship mass launch at the end of TACEVAL, no ATC, Yellow 1 on the North German Plain....thanks Harry! Belgian F-16's at 50ft, F4's capping at the Peheim Mast, 8-ship IMC night TFR at Goose (planned on the CPGS :sad:)......quick, sandbags on the doors, swing the lights. :})

You could park the GR1 with the wings swept, as long as the Fin was empty but as we almost always filled it, you never did sweep them for parking/taxiing.

Jackaroo - I hope I can answer your "1700mph" question adequately. The term "top speed" is largely irrelevant as it all depends upon, amongst many other things, drag. The more you carry outside/hang off the ac, the slower it is. F3's were lucky in that they flew around without fuel tanks or ECM most of the time and whilst this limited their fuel, they could still fly fooooooking quick when they wanted. On the GR1, because we always had tanks and ECM fitted (in a war, we'd be going a lot further into badlands), we had quite limiting speed limits on the stores we carried. Occasionally you could fly an air test clean and I once tried an 'acceleration test' downwind at the range at Capa Frasca (Deci). 300kts to 600kts in 21 secs, carrying CBLS though so still quite draggy. I was quite impressed with that and she was still pulling like a train at 600. Also saw 590kts in dry power at low level with tanks, ecm & CBLS....forgot to set the autothrottle and got distracted. :O

Ac with the smaller (subsonic) fuel tanks had a tendency to.....errr.....step sideways when you went a little too quick. := :oh: ;)

[AGS Man]

Well you learn something new every day! Anticipating Fin F at approx 22 00 Z tonight!!!

[jackaroo747]

Hahaha, Fin F, nice one :)

So would you change from the fin tank as soon as you were airborne and out of reheat for takeoff?

Cheers for the answers guys.

Jack

[just another jocky]

It automaticlly selects the next tank(s) for transfer once empty. The 440kgs in the fin would normally get you to gear up.

[jackaroo747]

that is a lot of fuel. Would you ditch tanks if you were 'bounced'? Presuming they were empty, to increase speed and manoueverability?

[Mach Two]

If you're 'bounced' and your life depends on it, you'd ditch everything whether it's empty or full! Better to bring home a serviceable a/c and crew than have the whole lot shot down and destroyed. In most circumstances anyway. It's not an automatic reation to being targeted, of course, but when the chips are down...

[just another jocky]

I had the great honour of dumping one of Her Majesties external fuel tanks on Saudi Arabia during Gulf War 1. A fine moment! :}

[HTB]

JaJ

Are you a former OC II(AC)? He also dumped some big jugs (near the Syrian S60 battery that was adjacent to our usual low level entry to recce routes - jolly good confirmation of the RHWR serviceability).

M2

Don't forget 'knickers'.

[Mach Two]

Yes, of course. Especially in the days of the AIM9G!!!

[P6 Driver]

I remember a TTTE machine sat on its tail at Cottesmore when the ex F-4 pilot, having been kept holding on the threshold for a while and then being cleared to depart, rocked the throttles outboard and powered up, seeing sky instead of runway and going nowhere. Early 80's.

[Lima Juliet]

JaJ

Reference the F3 flying clean or with stores. With 2x winders and 2x skyflash and 2x Big Tanks, I can confirm that the jet would do well over 700kts at low level (I know, RtS and all that ;) ). As I said, without tanks and with similar weapons 800kts+ is not difficult - the old HUD used to stop at 999 as well ;)

Jack

750IAS at 50,000ft was the supposed maximum for the F3 from the release to service - that's about 1250kts TAS or 1,400mph depending on the OAT. You needed to throw fuel out of the back at 700kgs per minute to get there and so you wouldn't be doing it for long but it gave your missiles a hell of an extra reach (roughly 50-70% longer).

And before the "beadwindow" police get on their outrage high horse, the F3 retired this year from operational service and I don't see us breaking the half a dozen out of the museums just yet (the rest were broken up and robbed for useful spares for GR4s under "reduce to produce" at RAF Leeming :{)

LJ

[OK465]

750IAS at 50,000ft was the supposed maximum for the F3 from the release to service - that's about 1250kts TAS

750 KCal at 50K is Mach 2.9+ & 1687 KTAS. :eek:

:confused:

edit: (BTW at 50K 1250 KTAS is 578 KCAS, Mach 2.18)

[Lima Juliet]

OK465

Yup, you're right, I shouldn't have used an iPad app to work it out. Just remembered it was 750IAS or M2.2 for Vne whichever you got to first!

Oops! :\

Seem to remember now that M2.15 being about 600ish KIAS at approx 45kft.

It's been a few years...

LJ

[just another jocky]

Leon - I'm not envious...really. Only time we flew clean was air tests so no spare fuel for anything 'fun', or at least for a high speed run. The TTTE GR1's seemed to run into a brick wall somewhat below the F3's :ouch:

HTB - nope. I have never aspired to that rank.....well, maybe once, a loooong time ago. HTB....sounds familiar. Did you aid in the liberation of a certain piece of metal?

[HTB]

JaJ

Yep (but managed to avoid the embarrassment of returning it), and a piece of Kubelwagen (sort of German jeep), mudguard, I think, and a little bomb body that was being used as an ashtray in a boxhead sqn crewroom (I only helped the real miscreant through the window, being a bit large to squeeze through myself). Oh when the saints...blah, blah, blah...:ok:

Mister B

[glad rag]

Good stuff!

Remember the Jerry ADR's going off in the rects hangers at Cott, first water ingress into the impact switches then there was the old "what's this bump here for" syndrome...

Only recently found out the old warhorse never has a thermal limit either :O

[Gaz ED]

JaJ,

Were you at RSAF Tabuk for the unpleasantness in 91?

I seem to remember someone banging the tanks off, also someone having a go at AGG from a long way up.

[just another jocky]

Gaz, yes I was, but I said 1 tank! ;)

[30mRad]

JAJ,

Was that the incident on a range detail which resulted in and LGB being kept on instead of the tank, and the TIALD failing to guide the tank to the tgt?!

[Gaz ED]

JaJ

Hmm - can't remember that one. SJ trouble?

[just another jocky]

30mRad / Gaz.....nope, neither of you are correct.

It was a deliberate act.

[Gaz ED]

I remain confused. Was there a 3 tank/TIALD fit? Possibly tank problem necessitating jettison?

[just another jocky]

I remain confused. Was there a 3 tank/TIALD fit?
For this particular mish, yes. Not enough airborne fuel, so we took a 3rd tank, were concerned we didn't have enough to get home so punched it as soon as as it was empty. Great feeling! Only thing I dropped during GW1, but a great feeling nonetheless!

[just another jocky]

There were some interesting fits around then. I have a photo somewhere (I'll have to find it and scan it) of an early ALARM fit. No adapters available so there's 2 on the UWG stations and the 2 small jugs UFUS. We've all heard about the Buccs at 20ft trimming down into the ground effect....only time in a GR I've felt ground effect.

[jackaroo747]

How low could you really go in a GR1?

And some Bucc pilots apparently said if they went low level to the point where they were skimming the sea/ground, the aircraft would ride its own pressure wave.... Some even said you could take your hands off the stick and let it ride on it...

JP later disputed this but it sounds fooooking awesome nontheless.

[just another jocky]

You could go as low in a GR1 as you could in any aircraft. Indeed, I still hold to this day that it is easier to simply not hit the ground than it is to try to fly to an artificial 100ft that you cannot see in front of you.

From end Aug '90 to when I left for Xmas in Dec '90, we were cleared to 0ft MSD on every trip. Tragically led to the loss of a couple of good young guys but was nonetheless very interesting, especially given the lack of visual cues over much of the desert (and the rad alt was pretty much useless below ~130ft).

[jackaroo747]

So the Rad Alt failed below that altitude? Likely having a senior moment here but what would you refer to then for your altitude? the HUD?

[jamesdevice]

"And some Bucc pilots apparently said if they went low level to the point where they were skimming the sea/ground, the aircraft would ride its own pressure wave."
The same used to be claimed (by some) of the FRADU T22 Camberras.
One of my school pals who went on to be an apprentice with Airworks / Flight Refuelling reckoned the things followed the waves so well they needed barf bags for sea-sickness. The pressure wave supposedly followed the sea waves...

[Gaz ED]

JaJ

The lightbulb went off! I was there from Nov 90 to March 91, albeit as groundcrew. Remember having to do OTR's on JP 233, 3x PW2, 8 bomb, 4 bomb, and 3 ALARM.

After the move to medium level, 3 x PW2 were used against a single HAS - not much left after that! We decided to dig trenches then, in case Iraqi Air Force thought about flying and doing the same to us!

Most startling was seeing a jet come back with the JP 233 front bit (full of AP nasties) still on. Until one of our brave armourers, just booted the thing off and lobbed it in the bondu!

All that and not a lot of booze!

[exMudmover]

Jackaroo747

For that kind of extreme low flying you are not relying on ANY instruments - it’s purely an eyeball exercise. You just fly as low as you can without hitting the ground. Flying in a straight line is pretty straightforward - it’s the turns that cause the problems. You have to climb a little bit every time the bank goes on to avoid digging in the wingtip.

In my experience the HUD just gets in the way of a clear view forward, even in a single-seater. A good Head –Down compass display (Like we had in the Hunter FR10), just below sightline is fine for heading-keeping. I was never very impressed with the Tornado’s double combining-glass HUD, which made forward view even more difficult when it got a bit dusty.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Seen and flown against (F3 rather than GR1) many buccs flying 20 ft-ish oversea on fleet exercises and beat-ups of Gib, etc. They seemed very happy down there. Agree with the points about HUDs getting in the way, especially supersonic and with salty windscreens. Don't have the experience to comment on ground effect in Tornado.

[just another jocky]

Aye Pinkfin, that's the one. :ok:

edit: just looked at the rest of the photos in the link. Brought back a few good memories there m8. I presume they're taken by you, in which case.....Hi m8, not seen you in many years! I have the first photo on my wall at home. :ok:

[Bo Nalls]

Gaz ED

I seem to remember someone banging the tanks off, also someone having a go at AGG from a long way up.

I think I can lay claim to the tanks being jettisoned on night 1, along with 2xJP233 after running through the target (Al Taqaddum) and not getting a release!

Likewise, my driver elected to do about 75º strafe from abt 25,000ft against, possibly Ruwayshid or one of the H airfields, memory growing dim - must dig out the logbook. Strafe done as it was the last opportunity befeore re-roling into TIALD spiking where strafe was prohibited.

Must have dropped more than a dozen u/fus tanks during transits before using TIALD sausage side. BTW, towards the end, I seem to remember the saints SENGO asking for the tanks to be thrown away as the groundcrew had chopped up the transit crates for firewood :ok:

Pinkfin - Good piccies - seem to remember pusing the TF envelope by trying to TF over some of those ridges :sad:

Smash Bugger - nice vid - a lot taken by my good self!

[bill2b]

I can remember one of our bay support (Klingons) getting a jolly at Deci and when the pilot told him to press "Selective jettison" it was actually set at "Jettison all"
Apparently all the pilot said on the way home was "Oh F**K, Oh F**k".
Jollys stopped immediately and our hero "Cpl Kev Norman" :8 ended up being called "Napalm Norman" for the rest of his career I imagine
:O:O
:D

[bill2b]

Smash B
We were shown some of these videos by one of our 31 Sqn aircrew at Dhahran during one of the briefing sessions
He stopped it where the shadow was closest and compared it with the A/C dimensions, this proved it was quite low :eek:
Good memories :D

[just another jocky]

Here are 2 photos I've just scanned in from my GW1 album of the ALARM fit previosuly mentioned.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0kT20AGHh6EAiCEeH3fLNq_do0wdPj_pTt45vEfBwCQ?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/GS30Wt0cRiK7UYLHy2uTEK_do0wdPj_pTt45vEfBwCQ?feat=directlink

I'd embed them if I knew how. :confused: :(

[just another jocky]

Also came across this pic of the demise of one of our jets.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LtBWFGY7HVpdhWMEqisNO6_do0wdPj_pTt45vEfBwCQ?feat=directlink

[Bobby A]

ZA 466/ 18 Oct 90 / Tabuk. I remember it well, not a lot of fun but at least we survived.

[just another jocky]

Thankfully you did.

I recall the efforts to get you both back to Blighty, with the catering truck lifting Ivor's.....I'm not sure what it was called, but he was clamped into it well.....into the Tristar.

[Bobby A]

I did ask for a large G&T to dull the pain in my broken legs but 2 Paracetamol was the only offer!

[Piggies]

Is it true that the back of this jet was married to the front of one that had a R Fus fire to produce a cut'n'shut?

[Just This Once...]

Yes it was but the resulting aircraft was a little weird. Even with just outboard stores it was a little reluctant to go supersonic and when it did there was an unusual (but brief) yaw accompanied by a worrying howl from the canopy which vibrated to the touch.

Never liked that aircraft and the display crew would not touch it.

[HTB]

Bobby

Glad to hear you're alive and kicking:E. I was back seat in the replacement aircraft that we ferried out from LBH (and forever grateful that I did not have to operate from those sh*tty conditions).

Mind you, Dharhan wasn't much better - but we only had to endure that from about day -2 until endex.

All the best

Harry (Mister B to you!)

[Wrathmonk]

SAMXXV

How did it feel to fly a constant one way circuit knowing that you were both going to have to eject when fuel ran out

I think you are muddling up your war stories ..... again. The incident being discussed (ZA466 Oct 90) is this one (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=55435)(or click here (http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/13FCED40-DE92-4BFF-80FE-7C022908E198/0/maas90_15_tornado_za466_18oct90.pdf)for the MOD summary) .... the one your 'story' relates to is, I believe, this one (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=55430) (ZD893 Jan 91 - and IIRC neither crew member was called Robert in this accident either .....)

[just another jocky]

Sorry Sam but Wrathmonk is correct, Bobby A jumped out of the barrier strike jet.

[Wrathmonk]

SAMXXV

Probably, but I think RobbyA was/is Sqn Ldr Bob (Robert) McAlpine - with the very new OC XV Sqn (JB) in the back seat of ZD893. I rest my case.

Wrong ..... again - on both counts.

The names of the crew of ZD893 are open source and can be found here (http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Aircraft_by_Type/tornado.htm).

Strangely the ZA466 accident is not on that site.

I would give up on the 'war stories' until you can get your facts right.

PS - Bob The Builder went on to get a DFC for GW1 - if he had jumped out of the jet in either Oct 90 or Jan 91 how exactly would this have been possible ....?

[just another jocky]

Sam...I was there, you're wrong.

[Ewan Whosearmy]

This is turning into one of those rare gems of a thread that make PPRuNE worth returning to.

Keep the stories - and photos - coming!

[just another jocky]

I took this photo the morning following the accident (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fYXMbfr00FW9wN1S9tabLq_do0wdPj_pTt45vEfBwCQ?feat=directlink) .

And this (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0VpKM9YgUn13XBSWC4TKw6_do0wdPj_pTt45vEfBwCQ?feat=directlink) .

[MG]

I tried to post a couple of photos but couldn't seem to work it, despite following the instructions on the FAQs. Any tips?

[SOSL]

WTF has my reply gone?

[HTB]

SAM is completely and utterly wrong on all counts with this bolleuax speculation. I was at home base (II(AC)), waiting devlopments and taking a close interest as we had not yet firmed up the potential role/tasking - not to mention getting the IR recce kit fully up to speed.

As I said earlier, I was a crew member delivering a replacement, and taking home a jet needing in-depth servicing (maybe it isn't listed as they allegedly didn't pull the handle, enjoying instead a spontaneous ejaculation - remember this is a rumour site, and that was the rumour at the time. Bobby may be able to expand on this).

The man is trying my patience and normal easy going demeanour with his ill-informed proclamations.

Mister B

[Bobby A]

HTB
Definitely not a spontaneous ejection, Ivor pulled the handle. My normal last checks before landing were to check the slats were deployed and then check we had 3 greens. As I turned my head forward to check for 3 greens I saw the top 2 feet of the barrier illuminated by the landing lights and braced myself on the top of the TV tabs. The impact set off the MDC which shredded my hands with lead and Perspex. All Ivor heard was the syllable “F” before all h*ll broke loose.

[just another jocky]

Bobby, what number in the formation were you? IIRC, we were to be in front of you but our jet went u/s on the ground and I heard about it all when someone ran into the MQ whilst I was reading a book.

There was another jet landed ahead of you with another ppruner in the back. They were lucky...you weren't.

I was in the control tower next day and the Saudis claimed the barrier came up of its own accord.

[Bobby A]

just another jocky,

I think we were number 3 of the front 4 of an 8 ship. After tanking we descended to low level but couldn't get the TFR to engage so we returned to Tabuk. The BoE interviewed the F15 engineers who were looking after the QRA jets at that end of the runway and they said it had been raised for hours.

Bobby A

[HTB]

Thanks for the clarification Bobby - as I said, this is a rumour site (and as you might guess, information caming back to LBH could easily get the "send three and fourpence" treatment), and the rumour was based on images of the break of the cockpit section from the noisy end of the jet (causing wires to tension and ping and fire pyros, etc).

Fading memories, was your MQ in Cochrane Drive? The one that joined the great semi-circle of Trenchard Drive (No 53 for me); and my children often getting grubby along with yours.

Mister B

[just another jocky]

HTB...I meant the MQ in Tabuk; they put a 4-ship per MQ.

Yes, our kids played together a lot...there's even a great pic my son and your daughter in their car seats in a jet.

[HTB]

JAJ

That's OK - slightly crossed wires here - my comment was for Bobby, who I think lived close to Muttley at LBH (JB and his brood had the corner house facing mine, and almost opposite him was B**l Ea**n.

I do recal being given a bed space on the coverd verandah of one of those Tabuk MQs for the one (and only) night we spent there. Shown round town by our Senior Int/PI who was on loan to the mixed det for some reason.

Mister B