BAe V's a Medal of Honor Marine

[NutLoose]

If true a sad sad tale,

Hero Marine Sues Defense Giant After Sniper Scope Fight | Danger Room | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/11/bae-dakota-meyer/#more-64975)

[500N]

And one that BAE will only ever come out a loser, regardless of what they do.

Foot in mouth desease.

[Tcabot113]

What would be done if they did that to a recipient of the Victoria Cross?

I hope when defense budget cuts come in the US I hope BAE will find their programs were first on the list.

Tcabot113

[Whenurhappy]

Something doesn't quite ring true about this one - ideed there is a strong smell of...well, I'll let you guess.

Inter alia, he's rather porky for a US Marine; I had difficulties in working out his relatiosnhip with BAe; there is a strong populist anti-British sentiment in the US - targetted at 'British' firms such as BP and BAe (though not in the State Department, where defense exports are controlled). Basically, this story doesn't fit. Having spent some time working with the State Department in different capacities - and as recently as September - I'd welcome any additional material any ppruners might have (PM if you prefer).

[jamesdevice]

whenurhappy

Just Google the man's name and you'll find enough information to keep yourself happy.


Medal of Honor | Sgt. Dakota Meyer (http://www.marines.mil/community/pages/MedalofHonorSgtDakotaMeyer.aspx)
(links to citation and background from this page)

BBC News - US Medal of Honor Marine Dakota Meyer sues BAE Systems (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15949418)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Meyer

suggesting he's "too porky" to be a Marine has more than a touch of bollox about it

[Load Toad]

It would simplify the decision making process regarding selling arms etc if our governments could clarify if Pakistan are our allies or not wouldn't it?

[500N]

Whenurhappy

I read your post an hour ago but needed to come back to my computer to post a reply.

That's a pretty low comment and on a par with BAE's level IMHO.

Have a read of the after action reports, large in size or not, he more than excelled in combat and under enemy fire.

And just to have got there meant he passed all Marine requirements.
.

[Jayand]

He does look a little porky.

[500N]

Load Toad

The US State Dept list is the one I think most people decide from.

[Tourist]

The man is a war hero.

That does not mean that what BAe say is not true. I would certainly have a drink problem if I had done what he did.

Whether BAe should have told anyone is a totally different matter. Let him go, fine, stitch him up for the future, not so fine.

[Load Toad]

So since they are our mates (ah-hem <cough/>) then BAe can sell what they want & he should have raised his concerns with the US Govt.

I don't agree with the way they have allegedly treated him, nor do I disagree with his view - but if you are an employee - you want the big $ you have to pick up the big box.

[Whenurhappy]

I was not doubting the man's heroism and integrity - what I am doubting is the way the story is portrayed and BAe's alleged complicity in it.

[Robert Cooper]

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the repeated risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as a member of Marine Embedded Training Team 2-8, Regional Corps Advisory Command 3-7, in Kunar Province, Afghanistan, on 8 September 2009. When the forward element of his combat team began to be hit by intense fire from roughly 50 Taliban insurgents dug-in and concealed on the slopes above Ganjgal village, Corporal Meyer mounted a gun-truck, enlisted a fellow Marine to drive, and raced to attack the ambushers and aid the trapped Marines and Afghan soldiers. During a six hour fire fight, Corporal Meyer single-handedly turned the tide of the battle, saved 36 Marines and soldiers and recovered the bodies of his fallen brothers. Four separate times he fought the kilometer up into the heart of a deadly U-shaped ambush. During the fight he killed at least eight Taliban, personally evacuated 12 friendly wounded, and provided cover for another 24 Marines and soldiers to escape likely death at the hands of a numerically superior and determined foe. On his first foray his lone vehicle drew machine gun, mortar, rocket grenade and small arms fire while he rescued five wounded soldiers. His second attack disrupted the enemy’s ambush and he evacuated four more wounded Marines. Switching to another gun-truck because his was too damaged they again sped in for a third time, and as turret gunner killed several Taliban attackers at point blank range and suppressed enemy fire so 24 Marines and soldiers could break-out. Despite being wounded, he made a fourth attack with three others to search for missing team members. Nearly surrounded and under heavy fire he dismounted the vehicle and searched house to house to recover the bodies of his fallen team members. By his extraordinary heroism, presence of mind amidst chaos and death, and unselfish devotion to his comrades in the face of great danger, Corporal Meyer reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.

Today, Meyer’s family are stating that he does not have a drinking problem, and that he is in the process of raising $1 million for the Marine Corps Scholarship Foundation to assist wounded Marine families.

News stations are reminding listeners that for years, officials in Britain and in America have investigated BAE on bribery and corruption charges. In 2010, the company agreed to pay a $400 million fine for violating arms control restrictions, and lying to federal officials about BAE’s actions. That was followed up by an additional $48 million fine in 2011

Be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Bob C

[NutLoose]

Personally I think BAe are in for a hiding over this, to try to discredit a Medal of Honor War Hero in the USA, they must be barking mad to have even tried that one and it must be a PR nightmare that they are probably wishing would go away......

[Two's in]

Nutloose, a richly deserved hiding too (if only half of it's true) but that's what happens when a Corporation doesn't take the training and supervision of its managers at all levels seriously. There's a line manager here who has just discovered the fastest way to the CEO's in-tray.

PS. The US State Department decide which countries receive military exports, not BAE. Pity somebody didn't take the time to explain this to Mr Meyer instead of being a smart ar$e.

[500N]

Agree re US State dept, the problem the US has is that they are not the only one's with the technology nowadays so if they can't get it from the US, they just get it from somewhere else - a la the debacle over the 50 cal Sniper rifles which Iran purchased from Europe.

[barnstormer1968]

One of the scariest and most vicious men I ever met was quite a porker too.

When I first met him he was a sergeant in a sister squadron, and easily weighed seventeen stone, but he could easily keep up with me on any regimental runs we did, and I was supposed to be a bit of a racing snake in those days (more like a weeble now). I don't know if he was brave in combat as I never saw him, but his combat history was quite a long an impressive one for cold war times.

On the other hand Roy P Benavidez wasn't all skin and bone either!

[Robert Cooper]

Mr. Roehrkasse, the BAE spokesman, said the decision to sell defense equipment is made by the State Department, not BAE.”

No, sir, you are incorrect. The decision of what CAN be sold or exported is decided by the State Department. The decision to actually SELL defense equipment to a foreign government is solely and 100% up to the company selling that equipment.

Bob C

[500N]

He looks a fair bit skinnier in photos from Afghanistan.

[Load Toad]

Yes Bob, I quiet agree with your sentiment - but a corporation is legally bound to make the most profit, within the law for its shareholders. It's not bound to have a conscience.

[dervish]

The guy probably put on a bit of weight while recovering from wounds received. So?

The only opinion worth a toss is that of the men he saved and their families. I know what they're thinking.

[Whenurhappy]

The role of the US State Department in determining what should be sold to whom should not be underestimated. This extends to British firms selling 'stuff' in the Middle East, with US Government obliged to ensure that Israel maintains a 'qualitative edge' amongst its neighbours. Thus State Department has levers it can pull to ensure that certain technologies are not sold to, say, Egypt or Saudi, for example.

Irrespective of the merits of the case outlined in the original post, anyone in the defence and security industrial sector has to be aware that there is very little ethical about manufacturing and selling arms - this has always been the case. Perhaps one of the more celebrated cases was the private action Krupps took against Vickers in the early 1920s, claiming licence fees for the manufacture of 18lb shell fuses fired by British and Imperial forces against the Central Powers. The case went to arbitration and Krupps (having just been depleted of most of its industrial capacity as a result of the Versailles Treaty) was awarded 1/- per fuse manufactured by Vickers. Zillions of these shells were fired. The payment was sufficient to put Krupps back on the map as a major engineering and arms manufacturer, just in time for the err, retooling of the Fascist forces in Germany.

[glojo]

I have always and no doubt will always join in the inter service banter....

US Marines second to none.

Royal Marines = None...

BUT how dare ANYONE ridicule the recognised bravery of ANY individual of any service of any nation.

Who cares if they are pink, green, yellow, black, one legged, one armed, blind, fat, thin, male or female.

Bravery is bravery is bravery and RESPECT to that 'porky' and no votes to that insulting post.

BAE what on earth possessed you to do this... if this individual had issues whilst in your employ then did you have any responsibilities to help this man?

It appears okay to use him whilst you pay him but then to abuse him when he leaves is the act of a COWARD. Shame on you.

[500N]

Load Toad

"Yes Bob, I quiet agree with your sentiment - but a corporation is legally bound to make the most profit, within the law for its shareholders. It's not bound to have a conscience."


And regardless if it is on the list or not, if the State Dept or other US Gov't official has a "quiet word", then I would suggest that their are bigger fish to fry in the US than a few scopes to Pakistan.

Aust DoD just knocked back a shipment of something here for some obscure reason.


Glojo
Well said :ok:

[aspinwing]

I forwarded the report to a friend of mine. He has recently retired from a company well known to members here so will not be named. I suggested that he could be hired on a PR contract which he humourously declind but included the following:
" To survive a pr crisis you need to be able to answer two simple questions: When did you find out you had a problem? What did you do about it? BAE cannot answer these questions adequately and therefore will have a very rough road ahead of themselves on this one."
Makes sense to me.

[Robert Cooper]

According to todays news, the case has been settled out of court.

Surprise Surprise :rolleyes:

Bob C

[OmegaV6]

All over now it seems...

Hero Marine Drops Lawsuit Against Defense Giant | Danger Room | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/dakota-meyer-bae-drops-case)

I wonder why .....

[glojo]

I suspect he may go out and have a drink or three to celebrate ;):ok:

I love a story that has a happy ending.

[Mothballed]

An interesting side issue

Marines promoted inflated story for Medal of Honor recipient | McClatchy (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/12/14/133134/medal-of-honor-inflated-story.html)

[GreenKnight121]

Which has been vehemently denied by both the USMC and the President.

I wonder if McClatchy will ever go after the story of Marines falsely accused of atrocities who were convicted, but then cleared on appeal.