Another Nimrod to be preserved?

[Jobza Guddun]

Whilst browsing the old tinterweb to see what was going on with Kinloss (I'm ex-Lossie), I stumbled on a piece from a local paper saying that some people were trying to save a complete Nimrod, XV244. I thought the last ones at Kinloss had been scrapped to be honest.

The article (and others) state that 2 groups are involved with this jet, Morayvia and the Nimrod Heritage Group. Does anyone know what the state of play is with this idea, or what the intentions of these 2 groups are? There's not been much to say about it recently.

Must admit, it'd be a fitting tribute to all those who've served at ISK on the Nimrod, I hope one of these groups can come up with a decent plan.

[Green Flash]

Sadly, I beleive that both were chopped up and carted off by Spey Bay Salvage about two weeks ago :{:{

There is a forward fuselage/nose section in the Aviation Museum at Dalcross but I think that's it.:(

Left side of the picture, old 54 lies quietly ruminating on a life once lived (http://www.highlandaviationmuseum.org.uk/)

[TheSmiter]

LIMDIS

In keeping with his 40 year operational role, Norman has indeed been keeping very deep and very silent. For those interested in the final disposal of the remaining airframes, reliable sources suggest this:

XV235 front fuselage reportedly went to Germany and its fuselage to the south of England to be used for as a weapons target

XV240 front fuselage has been retained and is currently stored (in the local area, not Kinloss) for preservation, the fuselage/wings went to Spey Bay Scrappies That leaves XV244.

Some say this Mighty Hunter will be the flagship of President Salmond's Free Scottish Republican Air Service, others that he'll become the centrepiece of a Moray Air Heritage musee or, with suitably soft furnishings and padding, a playpark for bewildered former AEO's.

Whatever the outcome, you'll find out when the time is right. :cool:

LIMDIS

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

Most (if not all) members of the Nimrod Heritage Group have left the baton for the preservation of XV244 in the hands of the Morayvia (sp?) group under Wg Cdr Stan Barber (Ret'd) and others. There is an (ambitious) plan to develop an aviation heritage museum with XV244 as the centrepiece. The remaining MR2 ac - XV235 and XV240 - were chopped up recently with, I believe, the front sections going off to Speyside Salvage for potential use by Morayvia (or as a tgt).

Duncs:ok:

[Mach Two]

I wonder why we always go through this. We take a type out of service and no one in the MoD seems to think about preserving a few copies. There are so many good aviation museums around the country that are just crying out for exhibits like this. In 20 years time, someone will be trying to salvage the rusting remains of one that's been used as a tgt to spruce up and make into a rather sad looking display. If there's a SALT issue, just remove the appropriate parts.

Yours,

Angry of UK

[drustsonoferp]

Preserving aircraft is considered, but bear in mind that there is an imperative to raise as much money as possible through sales of aircraft/scrap/parts etc., so ultimately sparing aircraft from a cash generating enterprise of whatever description has to be justified.

Expectations of heritage retention from the financial folk aren't all we'd perhaps like them to be.

[1771 DELETE]

It is indeed a sad day but Morayvia are trying hard to raise enough money to buy XV244. I dont know if the other museums had to pay for the Nimrods they received. I am sure that somewhere in the not too distant future, some very senior officers will be held accountable for their decisions.
Here is a link to Morayvia
MORAYVIA | A unique tourism project to help diversify Moray's economy (http://morayvia.org.uk/)

[jamesdevice]

Why bother? There are five or six Nimrods in preservation already, one at the Scottish National Museum of Flight. Surely that is enough?
Theres only so much money (and manpower resource) to go round in keeping these things preserved, and the more that cash and labour is diluted then the the worse the chances of any specific aircraft surviving.. Too many "preserved" aircraft end up getting scrapped because they are inadequately stored, corroded away and end up as a health hazard which have to be broken up. Think Blackpool Vulcan for one.....Think Duxford for another - how many of their "outside" stored aircraft had to go? Or think of the museum at Millom/Haverigg going bust.

This problem is already being seen elsewhere, for instance in the railway preservation field. Theres little money around now to keep in service (or in some cases return to service after 40+ years as near-scrap) the large number of "preserved" steam locomotives rescued from Barry and elsewhere. Many are going to have to be abandoned or scrapped over the next few years as their boiler certificates expire, after having large sums of cash spent on them already. Some, even after 40 years of expense have yet to run again, or even to be put into exhibitable condition. Far better all that money had been spent on a smaller number of better preservations / restorations.
Just remember that compared with an aircraft, a locomotive is a much simpler lower technical risk to repair and keep safe. Its all simple stuff using simple metals and basic metal bashing skills. An aircraft - even non-flying - requires specialist fitters, machinery and materials.

[500N]

Further to Jamesdevice's comment on outside storage, this is a genuine question I was going to ask the other day when I looked at the Nimrod stored outside at this place.

Highland Aviation Museum - Home (http://www.highlandaviationmuseum.org.uk/)

So, how long do these aircraft last outside like that before they start to get holes in them from corrosion etc.

I understand that places like this just don't have undercover parking for the planes but that is quite a nice collection, it just seems very exposed to the elements and a potential waste of a good display.
.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

The Nimrods were kept outside at ISK for 40 years - pretty much all the time.

5 MR2s were flown to a number of aviation museums following OSD, and a couple of 'bits' have been sent to other museums since then - including Highland Aviation Museum and the Scottish National Museum of Flight.

Surely, if Morayvia thinks that it has a viable concept and can find the money to purchase XV244, they should be allowed to do so.

Just my twopence.

Duncs:ok:

[jamesdevice]

"The Nimrods were kept outside at ISK for 40 years - pretty much all the time"
With continuous repair / maintenance and use of course
From previous posts on this forum, I get the impression the AEW3 frames rotted quickly once they were "stored" outside - in conditions similar to those any preserved aircraft will face

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

James,

You are, indeed, correct. I was simply trying to point out that, provided the airframes are looked after, they may last a while outside.

Duncs:ok:

[The Blue Parrot]

I'm sure Duncs will remember the MR2s stored in the woods on the northern side of ISK from '92 onwards, prevailing wind from the sea, a mixture of saltwater, wind and static Nimrod is not a good combination. XV249 was rescued early under ANNEKA in '95, the others eventually left (well their fuselages did) as the first airframes to go into the Nimrod 2000 project. I believe these fuselages required a disproportionate amount of work to repair their structural integrity! These 3 aircraft left ISK in Feb '97 less than 5 years after they were placed there (with dehumidifiers). The key, as Duncs says, they have to be looked after!

[jamesdevice]

"The key, as Duncs says, they have to be looked after!"
And thats the problem - theres only a limited amount of cash and manpower, and the more its diluted the less the chance of ANY surviving.

[Roadster280]

Call me old fashioned, but the MoD has several hundred aircraft hangars on airfields various, including ones that are now Army. If an aircraft that is nominally remaining in service is to be stored, why not put it in a shed? It seems ridiculous to put millions of pounds of equipment out in the ulu and in the meantime, rent a shed to a farmer for a few quid a year. Little Rissington springs to mind. Still an MoD airfield and lots of sheds.

I'm talking about these Nimrods in the 90s, not the current scrap.

[The Blue Parrot]

R280, You're old fashioned. The MOD may well own a number of airfields and on those airfields there are undoubtedly a number of hangars! However, the flaw in the plan is that like aircraft, runways and hangars need to be maintained and yes, that costs money. Something tells me that the cost of maintaining a runway suitable enough to land and then launch 4 Nimrods years later and then to maintain and modify at least 2 hangars to take the aircraft in toto (so that the canoe and tail fin can actually get into the hangar) and then of course maintain the aircraft themselves (away from the aircrafts' main operating base) would be much more than storing 4 in the woods at ISK. Just to emphasise the problem, one of the main sheds at ISL was condemned because there was insufficient funds available in the Station Infrastructure budget to refurbish it and that was on an operational station! It held the Station Kart Club for a time until (I believe) NATO funding was approved to refurbish it, with strings attached. I trust this goes some way to answering your query?

[Roadster280]

It explains it, but it still sounds like a bag of arse to me. MOD has planes, MOD has sheds. MOD can't put planes in sheds because they've been let go. Arse!

[Jobza Guddun]

Thanks to all who chipped in here. It seems that the Morayvia group are the ones in pole position then.

Good luck with an immense task!

[MATELO]

It was hard enough preserving the buggers whilst in service, let alone when the old girl has retired.

[rafmpa]

Was passing Kinloss this afternoon and caught sight of the last of the mighty hunters XV244 being towed by an artic lorry tractor unit as no tugs left at Kinloss. Aircraft has been purchased and is being preserved at Kinloss. Took some great photos of her as she was in pristine condition and in glorious sunshine. What a sight being towed from the maintenance hangar to her new location on the camp nearly brought a tear to my eye. Have placed photos on flickr if anyone is interested.

[NutLoose]

Link would help :). Suprised it couldn't have been left in the hangar if there was no pressing need for the shed, especially as they say no power etc was being used...

[pipistrelle]

RE Nimrod preservation, I think that the guys who have taken on the immense task of keeping one of maritime's finest aircraft in one piece deserve to be applauded. Sadly I can't help with the day to day tasks of the upkeep -due to my present location but will gladly subscribe financially to help. Having flown on Stan's crew I know that the project is in good hands and wish all concerned my best wishes. Wonder if there'll be any more CXX reunions?

[Ancient Squipper]

Nimrod XV249

The disassembled aircraft is now at the RAF Museum Cosford (Near the Cold War Hanger) awaiting to be nailed and araldited back together by a civvy contractor.

[TurningFinals]

Heres a link to some photos i took of XV244 the other day. The frame has since been resprayed back to grey. I'm at Kinloss tomorrow, if its a decent day I'll head over to the north side of the airfield to get some of the new paint job.

XV244 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77410378@N02/7094556741/in/photostream/)

[MFC_Fly]

I hope you have the correct permissions and permits to take photos on base :ooh:

[GalleyTeapot]

^^^^ Dobber!!

[MFC_Fly]

Not at all GT - I have not 'dobbed' the poster in to anyone, he/she has openly announced their intention on the Internet.

I was simply giving said poster a heads up - people at ISK have got into a lot of ****e in the past for taking photos on base without appropriate permissions and, allegedly, some for taking photos of that very frame in the not too distant past!

I personally don't have a problem with people taking photos of the great lady, but some at ISK do not like photos taken on base at all without the correct paperwork.

[WhiteOvies]

I think when it comes to aircraft preservation the more the better, if at all possible. That way, with them geographically spread around the country, more people have a chance to see them and hopefully learn why MPA are important.

I visited XV232 at Coventry (Air Base) last week and it was fascinating; especially as it is parked next to the Shackleton (also open to the public) so that you can compare MPA platforms side by side.

You can take as many photos, inside and out as you like with no worries about Snowdrops! Some of the kit, such as the wescam console, has been removed but she is in great condition, for now.

If XV244 has been preserved then that is good news, she deserves it!

[Oldsarbouy]

Thanks to Spey Bay Salvage, XV244 has been moved to a temporary site on the old VAS apron pending a later move to it's new home near to the Findhorn Road. Photo taken by authorised person! If you want to join our group log on to Morayvia, the more the merrier.

http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss297/oldsarbouy/tug118.jpg