Euro American School of Aviation Ormond Beach FL - AVOID!!!!!!!

[pilot786]

also known as Ormond Beach Aviation

These guys are just there to nab your money and then mess you about until the cows come home. I went there foolishly as they appeared to be cheaper than other set ups but don't be fooled by that because by the time you have left, you have paid way over what you thought you were going to pay!

They promise a 3 week PPL. Out of about 20 students not one I know of completed on time. I met people there who were back for the fourth time to complete their PPL.

On day one they get you to sign a lengthy contract which they think absolves then from any law suits. They will also demand money up front. If you want to pay as you go then you will be charged a higher rate.

They try and get you to stay in their accommodation where there's up to 10 people in a house and 3 to a room and charge you extortionate rates. You can get a hotel much much cheaper.

They will offer to collect you from the airport for $105 each way. You can hire a car for a whole week with that amount.

Once they have your money they don't care any more and will drag it out as much as they can in order for you to return, more money for them! The staff/istructors are rude and not approachable.

Out of the 20 odd students not one happy pilot! In my opinion the WORST school ever. AVOID at all costs.

[mad_jock]

Seems like nothing has changed in the last ten years then.

[bluearrow]

Two pieces of advice that i was given that have seen me right all thoughout my training so far:

1. Never pay up front
2. Stay away from the US

They promise a 3 week PPL.

Those of us in the know will tell you this is quite improbable.

We all learn from our mistakes ;)

[mad_jock]

3 week ppl isn't impossible but is extremely hard work.

When I was an instructor I did several in the UK. In fact one chap did it in two but he did turn up with all the exams done and the RT out of the way.

This schools issues are from the top down. There are issues with some students turning up who just don't have the aplitude or the head on them to learn within the three weeks. But the customer service and attitude to the customer hasn't changed since pprune started.

[mad_jock]

1. Some students do have the right attitude and they still fall foul in the schools. AT is famous for taking an instant dislike to someone coming in through the door and seems to enjoy making there life hell.

2. Claiming back by credit card can be a huge pain in the bum especially if the schools starts waving contracts which they have years and years of practise and pissed off students to get right for making life difficult. And by the time you add the extra on for paying by CC most of your savings have disappeared and well the schools know it.

3. It is a pain in the arse I have been through it. And there is always the chance that they will refuse you entry and your deposite is gone.

4. More money and they can cancel it, and then you have to leave before coming back in again. There are a couple of known names who like to do this. They will also have penalty clauses which mean you will loose big time thus removing any benefit on price again.

5.Alot of us agree with that completely and hopefully they will get thier finger out and do as you say, at the schools cost of course.

6. Again adds to the cost which isn't included in the headline cost which folk only find out when over there. You don't need it at home either type so add that on to the headline price.

7. They are well sussed in making sure problems go away. Anyway it will add weeks onto your time and also cost a fortune due to penalty payments.

8. Yep and you would have thought that the stupid bastards could get it right after all these years they have been doing it. But they still make a pigs arse of it for no apprant reason. But to be fair UK schools do the same but at least you can get to them to sort it out.

this post should be number 11

[Gomrath]

Stay away from the US

Rather a sweeping statement.
Care to elaborate?

[Bearcat F8F]

I got my PPL with Euro American 2 months ago. Everyone's experience with them varies.

About the "PPL in 3 weeks" idea, that is very possible. There was a boy there when I arrived who did it in 3 weeks exactly. Of course you need to be quite good to achieve it that quick, but given the weather allows, yes it is possible.

I am not saying EASA is a good school. You might think it's bad, but trust me, there are schools far worse. And even I had a problem there as my instructor was being totally unreasonable so I had to wait 4 days without flying before I got another instructor.

With regards to accommodation, well no one forced you to stay at their houses so if you can get a hotel, get a hotel.

And yes, you'll probably pay a bit more than you planned on (partly because mostly everyone upgrades to the Piper cadet instead of the C150, and partly because you are likely to go over your dual and solo hours).

Why do you think there were students back there for the 4th time? I doubt they would've come back if they thought the same as you. Yeah it's not great. Their customer relations could do with a major overhaul. But you get what you pay for!

And Ormond Beach is a great airport to fly out of! Plenty of traffic to deal with + there's Daytona's Class C shelf layer... I thought it was great fun! Biggest thing is that the instructors all have low hours (or most of them) but I guess it's like that in most places.

Overall, if you definately know of a better school for a few extra quid, yeah go for that instead. But if you are willing to just come and concentrate on getting your PPL and just ignore all the annoying little things then I think it's still money well spent. Unless you're going there during the summer, the chances are you will have a 3 bed room to yourself like I did. If you want to rent a car and drive from a hotel that's your choice!

P.S. The US is the most awesome country to fly in IMO.

[mad_jock]

Gomrath.

I sort of agree with it as well but maybe not for the same reasons.

1. The student has a very hard time of it if anything goes wrong miles away from home.

2. The consumer protection isn't what they think.

3. TSA pain in the arse

4. Visa's lock you into a single school and if they decide to be difficulty you can get royally screwed.

5. Standard of instruction is the same as EU you get very bad all the way up to very good but see point 4. You have no option but to endure bad instruction which maybe because of personality clashes.

6. Insurance both medical and renters insurance.

7. Fine print. All the JAR schools have it down to an art and if you decide to sue them they will cancel your visa and get you thrown out.

8. The whole ball ache of getting paper work sorted out if you get knocked back for license issue.

Once you step away from the sausage factorys things do get better but then you have issues getting a visa etc.

Cheapest in the US for JAR schools is OBA at 5k UKP but as anyone who has been there before will know the cost can escalate quite rapidly. You add on the renters insurance, additional days, flights, medical insurance, TSA, airport transfers there isn't much in it.

And of course you only get the headline price if you pay everything up front.

And if you do you better pack some of this

http://img.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/squeal-240.jpg

So if all goes to plan you may get a saving but alot don't and don't really enjoy the experence of learning how to fly

[bluearrow]

Rather a sweeping statement.
Care to elaborate?

Not really as mad_jock sums it up quite eloquently :p

[Gomrath]

1. The student has a very hard time of it if anything goes wrong miles away from home.

It depends on what attitude the student has before turning up. If s/he expects everything done and on a plate, then most will be disappointed. You get out only what you are prepared to put it. As you said, you have to have the writtens completed in advance and be a bit 'streetwise'.

2. The consumer protection isn't what they think.

Pay by credit card and don't accept second best. Check your bill constantly.

3. TSA pain in the arse

Not at all, It is a very simple process. Signup, complete electronic submission, pay fee, get fingerprints, wait for acknowledgement - job done.

4. Visa's lock you into a single school and if they decide to be difficulty you can get royally screwed.

No it does not. True, you cannot just walk out and decide to then go find another school but if you find the school intolerable, they are obliged to transfer your visa to another school. It will cost you however, plus another TSA fee.

5. Standard of instruction is the same as EU you get very bad all the way up to very good but see point 4. You have no option but to endure bad instruction which maybe because of personality clashes.

You always have an option. Perhaps the CAA should do more to validate these overseas approved schools.

6. Insurance both medical and renters insurance.

You have to sort out medical insurance when going on vacation to most foreign countries. Renters insurance is optional but as with any insurance it is the renters risk.

7. Fine print. All the JAR schools have it down to an art and if you decide to sue them they will cancel your visa and get you thrown out.

The priority is Flight Training, move to another school before threatening action against the first school.

8. The whole ball ache of getting paper work sorted out if you get knocked back for license issue.

Again., I guess it comes down to preparation and getting the ducks aligned.

Don't get me wrong I was simply commenting on the blanket statement of "stay away from the US".

[carlleehaylee]

Yeah,

Euro American School of Aviation (EASA) is not a place I would recommend.

In fact i would say, stay in Europe it will be cheaper, safe and you'll get better training.

Training is alright (a PASS) but the whole experience is hell. Everything is fine and dandy when you first contact them to talk about stuff.

They are not stupid, they put a nice guy with nice attitude to handle initial inquiries and lure you in. Their marketing is great.

Once you pay and arrive, hell starts. Rude, patronizing, money grabbing people (Kim Aldbury ranks top).

1. PPL IN 3 WEEKS? IMPOSSIBLE.

Why? They have way more students they can manage to make the PPL in 3 weeks possible for everyone. That would mean flying at least 3 hrs a day.

That never happens. WHy? they have to try schedule all students every day. SO forget it.

OF the people i met (about 20), not one ever finished PPL in 3 weeks. 8 weeks is what took most people to finish it.

Why do people keep coming back? Well, those who come back usually dont have a choice. They take 3 weeks off work to do their ppl and then get to Euro American SCHOOL of AVIATION in florida on a tight schedule.

Obviously, the cant finish it in 3 weeks so they have to leave and come back to finish it off. They have prepaid their PPL package and get no money back. So coming back is their only chance.

I met 3 people while I was there that had to do just that.

2. What NEW MANAGEMENT?.

The management has been the same since 1994. An english guy called Adrian Thompson owns and runs the place remotely.

He does not live in the US anymore. Spends most of his days in england and apparently only returns to Florida when he has to appear in court for issues/accidents related to the business (your flight school..)

His goal, to take your money and the hell with anything else.

So you should do a search for Ormond Beach Aviation or flyoba.com to hear more about Euro American School of Aviation (EASA). They are the same people wearing different hats.

The school changed its name from ORMOND BEACH AVIATION to EUROPEAN SCHOOL OF AVIATION in 2009. So you know that those who post the reviews saying they have new management are in fact EASA/OBA employees.

Why did they change the name? They were sued (and still are sued) for accidents that happened pre-2009 so they said, lets change the name so nobody can link us with the lawsuit. But they are still the same corporation, run by the same guy (adrian thompson) who is responsible for the accidents.

3. WHAT ACCIDENTS?

Students involved in accidents got badly injured. One got burnt in 2/3 of his body, others suffered massive injuries. No casualties but fingers crossed. Reasons: issues with the aircraft.

And that does not include the accidents where students suffer no injuries at all but have issued with the planes (planes flip, front gear snaps). Witnessed 3 of those during my time in Ormond Beach. Whatever you do, stay away from the poorly maintained CESSNAs. They are death with wings.

4. MORE EXPENSIVE THAN YOU PLAN

As for money, you will spend WAY more than you planned because:

1. NO way you can finish it off in 3 weeks.
2. Which means you will need to pay more extra accommodation, food, gas,etc.
3. It is not unlikely you will have to pay for additional flying hours outside your package.
3. YOU will need a car if you want to have a life. (about USD 150 per week) There are no buses you can count on. Which means fuel- 50 bucks a weeK)

IN A NUTSHELL donotflyeasa because:

1. Money is their only concern. They run a business and run it accordingly. You are not student, just a source of income. They prefer you dont learn much so you need to fly more hours (which means more money for them)

6. Once you pay, you only deal with rude, patronizing and burnt out people (save for the lovely woman at the bar and the flight dispatchers. Those guys are cool.)

7. You will end up spending WAY more than you planned.

It will not be the pleasurable experience you would expect. So now that you have all the facts (or my opinion for that matter) make your own decision!

Any questions? ask away.

[email protected]

[B2N2]

In fact i would say, stay in Europe it will be cheaper, safe and you'll get better training

UH.........no.
Don't judge all schools in the US by the experience of one.
It is simply amazing how unprepared some people show up.
Unprepared as in have not studied prior to arrival and even better; haven't put any effort in selecting schools.
If potential students would put a bit more research into selecting prior to going schools like EASA, NAC and name the rest of them would have been out of business years ago.

Having said that; in the name of all schools that are good in the USA I apologize for the experience any of you may have had with operators like the one mentioned above.

[rmcb]

Cheaper - I would argue the exchange rate is such that any saving is eroded; when you tot up acommodation, car hire, nights out, TSA, Interview at US embasy costs etc. it will probably be more expensive.

'Safe' and 'better training' I am not in a position to comment other than the FAA regulate the machines more than adequately and the UK CAA inspect the FTOs annually.

Allegedly.

[mad_jock]

I wouldn't go for the safer and better training line either.

You get the full range of ****e to brillant in the US and the EU. Same with aircraft maint standards.

[Alzandor]

I'm not surprised to hear all these bad things on EASA, Ive done a lot of research over the past 6 months on schools in the US and so far EFT is the only CAA approved school that has come up with overall good remarks from its students on this site. Im considering going there myself for their APP program.

[BigGrecian]

uro American School of Aviation Ormond Beach FL - AVOID!!!!!!!
This is the worst school I have seen.

Should have done your reasearch - their reputation has been like this for years.

In their defence however :
hey will offer to collect you from the airport for $105 each way. You can hire a car for a whole week with that amount.


Seems very reasonable - remember they have to pay someone probably $10 an hour (which is only just above minimum wage) - for around 4-5 hours work in total round trip plus petrol at $0.50 (US goverment figure is around $0.47 a mile) a gallon 200 miles means I wouldn't be suprised if their costs were $150 and it's more of a service.

[Slopey]

Seems like it's gone downhill in the last few years. I did my PPL there around 6 years ago - had an excellent instructor (same guy for the whole duration who got a biz jet job the week I left), great aircraft availability on the C152s they had, and was with a great bunch of fellow students who I still (although sproadically) keep in touch with.

Back then, if you had the right attitude, and AT didn't take a dislike to you - you were fine.

I didn't pay until I got there as I wanted to check the place out, and accepted the small percentage uplift for the privilege. Put 5 weeks aside and did it in 4 without too much pressure, including the exams (although I did hit the books a month in advance of going). Accomo was fine - I booked an individual room and got exactly what it said on the tin.

I even got some money back from them as I'd bought 10 hours and only used 5 - they didn't have a problem with it (and in turn I vacated the house a few hours early to help them out on my last day). All in all a nice bunch.

Lunches at the golf club, bought a bike from Walmart and sold it on when I left, and even had a few days at the end for XCs for lunch and a visit to Nasa with a hire car.

All in all, it was a great experience, and substantially cheaper at the time than if I'd done it at home (with Aberdeen being, and still is, extortionate) - and at home, I'd never have got the continuity of training with work/family/wx etc. Then got home and got embroiled in the FAS-going-bust nonsense with endless check-outs (with different instructors who all wanted a turn flying with me before they signed me off - bit cheeky) and other issues which drove me bonkers compared to the US regime and cost me about a 1/5th of what I'd just spent for nothing.

So - horses for courses. I had a great time, but that was years ago, and was with a great bunch of students. There were a few even then who rocked up, wanted to only fly twice a week, complained about everything rather than accept their own limitations or lack of commitment, and left early.

Can't speak for it now, but training in the US shouldn't be written off entirely - flying over there is a dream compared with Eurocrap land.

As everyone says - do your research, get reviews, go prepared, and never pay up front (accepting you might pay a little more for the privilege).

[mad_jock]

Slopey it was like that 10 years ago and if you were unlucky you could see both faces of the school while you were there. All it took was something to piss AT off and all hell would let loose. He would start wandering around the school wearing his gun and abusing customers. I had two weeks of calm and getting through things and the last week was murder. Thankfully I had the bulk of it done so they couldn't screw me over unlike some of the others that turned up that week. If I hadn't seen the change I would be on pprune to this day sticking up for them.

The instructor bit is well and truely a luck of the draw thing. I had a CFII good un but then towards the end of the three weeks ended up with some ******** from Riddle who thought you could teach PPL by demonstrating spinning from 3000ft every lesson.

From my experence and postings on pprune nothing has changed. Some students have a good time and enjoy themselves Some students its hell on earth. As for the ratio between the two I don't have a clue when I was there the majority didn't have a good time that last week. 15 of us sitting upstairs listening to AT shouting, swearing and banging on the wall at whoever was next in the Q for the RT test. The pass seemed to be being able to put up with being yelled at until you eventually got cleared to land. I didn't like to tell him it was meant to be a FISO airport we were going to so technically they couldn't clear us for anything.

My instruction turned out to be not very good. When I went on to do a CPL and FI course I discovered large chunks of the syllabus hadn't been covered in relation to navigation, diversions and emergency exercises. And the stalling was taught by hanging in the stall using the rudder to haul the wings up when they dropped. Which isn't the way to do it.

[talkpedlar]

Sorry to be harsh buddy but there has been a wealth of (pretty negative) information about OBA on tnis 'site for a very,very long time.

Although you may not receive much sympathy, you will surely cause many readers to shake their heads in disbelief. :ugh:

10 or 15 minutes simple research would have saved you disappointment, inconvenience, stress and cash. Oh dear. Sorry.

[Righto]

Been following the replies on this topic. I wonder if any prospective client has spotted that this company is still advertising FIC courses. To the best of my knowledge, it does not have any CAA approved instructors to undertake this advanced course.

Can anyone confirm?

[Gomrath]

I wonder if any prospective client has spotted that this company is still advertising FIC courses. To the best of my knowledge, it does not have any CAA approved instructors to undertake this advanced course.

Can anyone confirm?

You posted this same question back in October...
http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/466504-ir-me-then-cpl-fly-easa.html#post6755867

Surely the solution is for you to ask them to put it in writing? Then report back..

[Righto]

Thanks. Have done.

[VJW]

I've been to OBA/EASA flight training a number of times, always got what I paid for.

Everyone has their own experience as has already been said, but these threads complaining about this school appear on this forum every 6 months or so. If people who were happy with the school posted a new thread every time, I'd guess they'd be way more!

Just my opinion.

[Swede80]

Did my PPL at OBA four years ago, got what I paid for and had a good time.

Allowed 5 1/2 weeks for the course, completed PPL including written tests in 3 1/2. Same for most of the other guys who were there at the time. Had the same instructor all the way through. Only extra cost that I didn't know of beforehand was some insurance which was hundred something dollars. No big deal.

I fly professionally today and had to do the PPL syllabus again when I took an integrated course at a well recognized FTO in Europe. As far as I can recall there were no parts of the syllabus that were missed at OBA.

Guess OBA isn't for everyone, saw a few people who clearly weren't made for flying. One guy was switching aircraft type a handful of times because he had a hard time landing and figured it was the aircraft which was at fault.

Maybe I was lucky, maybe others where not.

[Golf--Lima--Papa]

Got my Night Qualification done with EASA at Ormond Beach in the summer.

Completed over 2 nights and was very straight forward, I paid exactly what was advertised on the website and not a dollar more.

I appreciate that this was only a very short course, however, I was very impressed with the way I was treated.

[mrmum]

I don't think that either on this thread, or any of the many previous posts about dodgy experiences training in the US, that EASA or (any of the other FTOs) will rip-off/mess-about every customer they get. If that was the case, it wouldn't take long before no one would be going, regardless of price or amount of advertising.
I've got no personal experience of the schools doing JAA courses in FLA, all the flying I've done in the US (~100 hrs over 15 years) has been done at establishments offering FAA training.
However it does appear that a significant minority of the students going to EASA come away very dissatisfied. I was once told the measure of a business isn't how many happy customers there are, it's how they deal with it when things go wrong. Bearing that in mind, I'd be avoiding some FTOs.

[B2N2]

If that was the case, it wouldn't take long before no one would be going, regardless of price or amount of advertising

Unfortunately your assumption is only partially correct.
They do and they will for the following reasons;
A fair amount of students show up unprepared, not necessarily as their course of training is concerned but unprepared for the training none the less.
They have spent very little time researching flight schools and even less time in making their final choice.
Human factors I'd say but a majority knows very little if anything about aviation except for chatting at the bar of a club or reading the occasional magazine.
This student never considers why one school advertises with 4,995 and another with 9,995. They assume them all to be the same and without any further research choose the cheapest one.
They assume upon arrival that students cannot learn in new aircraft since they may bang and bouce once in a while and are let to believe that flying 40 year old death traps is normal.
They are in a foreign country dependant on somebody elses visa having just started a completely new episode in their lifes.
This makes people very dependent and very hesitant to change.
They assume because this school treats them and their employees a certain way that it is normal, why would any other school be any different?
This school advertises in 24 magazines and their name is all over the internet, how can they be bad? Maybe it's me, maybe I'm a bad student. I don't want to loose my deposit. I can't afford to change. They threaten to cancel my visa I'll have to stick with it.
After an x-amount of time they walk away with a certificate and they are so glad they made it that they don't really care about the treatment anymore.
They have accomplished what they came here to do so it can't be all bad.
Yes it is all bad and will stay that way.
Do not pay large amounts up front and be willing to cut your losses and WALK AWAY.

The problem is that starting students ( by definition) are laymen in the industry and have no idea what the norm is for "normal" or even acceptable.
They have no prior experience in this industry.
Most will not realize how badly they have been shafted, as a human being and training quality wise, till they go to another school and try a foolow up rating or conversion.
Then they will realize have bad things have been.
By then people think that it has no purpose anymore to complain or make it public. As in what's the use, I'll just never go back there again.
Not realizing that whole generations will follow in their footsteps and have to deal with the same amount of misery.

[tonker]

Did my PPL there is 97. Did it in 19 days comfortably. Work hard, volunteer to turn up at the crack of dawn and you not only get a "fresh" instructor, but can get another flight in later on.

Study for exams before hand. You are not going for ground school. This is where i saw most of the problems occurring.

Had time for Molly Browns to boot;)

[Gomrath]

I think this has run its current course and will no doubt rear its head again in a few months time.