Queens Diamond Jubilee Medal

[Noggin]

Many of you may remember the way the Queens 25th Aniversary Medal was distributed. Nothing has changed in 35 years!

Petition Diamond Decoraration should include all veterans - e-petitions (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/3747)

Next year the Queens Diamond Jubilee Medal will be presented to service
personnel, emergency service personnel and prison officers with more than
five years service. There are no plans to award the medal to veterans, many
of whom have given a lot more than five years service during the reign of
Her Majesty.

This petition asks that the medal should also be awarded to veterans who
served Her Majesty during her 60 years on the throne.

Please sign it and distribute as you deem fit.


David Swain
Captain, Royal Navy
Secretary
The Navy Lodge, No. 2612

[Tankertrashnav]

Shan't be signing. Got one medal for my only period of active service during my 12 years, that'll do me. Can't see why anyone would particularly want a medal that everyone else has - seems to defeat the object of medals to me. Smacks of modern school sports days when everyone gets a prize.

On a point of detail it was the Golden Jubilee Medal 2002 which was distributed in the way described - the Silver Jubilee Medal 1977 was awarded very sparingly.

[Clockwork Mouse]

I believe the criteria is 5 years service and still active at the date of the jubilee. Why should every veteran get one? If so, then every ex-fireman, paramedic, policeman etc should get one too, which would be ludicrous.
I'm afraid I will not support this.

[Bismark]

What a waste of a petition. The real petition should be for those who are serving with less than five years' service but who are laying down their lives on the front line - they should get the medal, not veterans.

[Top Bunk Tester]

At the end of the day it's a chocolate medal, smaller than real medals and, unless you really are a gong hunter, somewhat embarrassing to wear adjacent to medals that have been hard earned with blood, sweat and tears. Hadn't been in long enough in '77, just out in '97, no interest in 2011. No signature from here either. := Should be getting the new ACSM 11 which will mean a lot more.

[foldingwings]

A crewroom, somewhere in East Anglia, 1977.

Sqn Cdr - 'Bloggs, we are only getting 12 of these medals for us and the troops!' SEngO is sorting out 6 deserving troops but since all the officers deserve one do me a favour and put all our names in a hat and run a draw at shareholders on Friday!'

Bloggs - 'Right Boss, that's it, names in a hat, yeah!'

Sqn Cdr - 'That's it, Bloggs, seems fairest way, eh!'

Friday Shareholders, Boss has explained sitch to officers and Bloggs is summonsed up front to run the draw! (Bloggs knows that Sqn Ldr Wibble really really really wants a medal!)

Sqn Cdr - 'Right Bloggs, get on with it!'

Bloggs pulls first name out the hat - 'Sqn Ldr Wibble!'

Wibble puffs out chest with happiness and adoration that HMQ has selected him to receive a medal!

Bloggs pulls second name out the hat - 'Sqn Ldr Wibble!'

Third name - 'Sqn Ldr Wibble!'

etc etc

Sqn Cdr goes harpic! Bloggs is dutifully admonished amongst gales of laughter.

Bloggs removes 36 'Wibbles' from his hat and the draw is rerun!

You guessed it, no medal for Wibble!

Larf, we nearly sh*t! (with apologies to Pete & Dud)

Foldie:8

[foldingwings]

Well how did that happen! I wrote and posted my post at 1645 on 25 Nov 11 and it appeared up there at 0834!

PPRuNe you have some strange ways!


Foldie:cool:

PS. Bloody hell, it's done it again, I'm off for a lie down in a darkened room!

[The Helpful Stacker]

Ooo, an almost witty response 'Kreuger flap', cut a little close to the bone did I?

Do you desperately desire a piece of gizit tin to hang forlornly on your C&A blazer too?


(Strange, this post has travelled back in time too).

[hello1]

Well said Bismark. Many many of those coming home from here in coffins would not qualify but they and their comrades have given HM exceptional service in a short period of time.

[Bladdered]

No thanks, Captain Pugwash - like when would I wear it, just another trinket for the sock drawer. Jeepers, getting very cynical in my middle age.

[Jimlad1]

I wont be signing - there is no shame in not having a medal despite having served and giving this one away to everyone would devalue it.

At the end of the day, the Queen has decreed that we are to have a medal and decreed the eligibility criteria. If you don't like that, then buy a fake one.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I don't denigrate other medal holders just because I praised the serious ones.
I am against, as Geehovah says, a medal that goes to someone with 6 years service who's still in, but doesn't to someone who retired last year with 40 years, whatever branch/trade.

.. and likewise, flogging round low level was quite dangerous enough thanks, though I don't want a medal 'cos I enjoyed it:)

[ZOFO]

No thanks I will not be signing, Still serving and happy to have received my Op/Campaign medals (that cost a ferking fortune to get remounted each time), but I agree with the earlier posts where do we draw the line etc... would it not be better to just give us all a day off.
Sorry

[Two's in]

Queens Diamond Jubilee Medal

You would have thought that Her Majesty the Queen at least deserved the apostrophe of possession to describe her Diamond Jubilee Medal - or is that regarded as old school these days? Or is it for more than one Queen? Maybe if you can't get details like that correct, old farts like me are less likely to take the petition seriously in the first place.

[Blue Bottle]

So that will be a 'NO' then...
Fully support all above comments...:D

[Pontius Navigator]

Hadn't been in long enough in '77, .

Unless you had been standing in No 1, 34, 67 etc in the queue you would not have got one anyway.

If someone really, really, really wants a DJM then why not buy one?

The Vets with real medals probably wouldn't want one especially with the expense of adding it to all their other medals. The Vets that might be creating probably don't have any at all.

PS,

One Vet I know has a seriously long string of medals. The pin is so long he practically had a DIY vasectomy when he put them in his pocket - ouch!:ouch:

[Yellow Sun]

My first experience of the "All must have prizes" policy was on a visit to the US Air Force Academy in the 1960s. I noted that some of the cadets sported medal ribbons. On enquiring as to the nature of the award I was informed that 1965 had been declared National Defense (sic) Year and all serving members of the US armed forces had been awarded the medal. My informant went on to say "We call it Alive in '65".

Says it all really

YS

[The Helpful Stacker]

I agree with most of the other posters so far, a big "NO" from me. Why should some long since retired 'veteran' get a medal when some of those serving and dying in Afghanistan aren't even in line?

What do you want it for? To hang next to that one you brought from a company in a magazine? Give that National Service medal something to rattle against next time you are propping up the bar in the legion, telling all and sundry your 'war stories' from the bad old days of the BAOR, fighting off the Soviet hoard whilst having to cope with yellow handbags und dodgy frikadellers?

"Lance General of the RAF W Mitty take one pace forward, 49 Para are looking for you".

[Pontius Navigator]

KF,

Que?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

A big No from me,
glad I missed the Golden Jubilee trinket too.
Everyone I've met with serious medals, e.g DFC etc was really deserving of them. Wouldn't dream of pretending I'm in the same class.

I have RAF Wings - always found this is enough to impress the world.

[P6 Driver]

"I have RAF Wings - always found this is enough to impress the world."


If you mix in company that's impressed by a set of wings (really???), just think what a set of shiny fake medals would do as an addition! I sense a missed opportunity about to go by here...
;)

[Pontius Navigator]

Fox, had you done your time, ie been there, then you would have been proud to wear it. In a sense it is a short time variant of the LSGCM as you only needed 5 years to qualify and had to be there at the time.

You could equally denigrate the LSGCM but I think those that did the time and have one would agree they earnt it.

However granting the DJM to all and sundry on account of previous service - no. Next they would be asking for the LSGCM after leaving the service as well.

[P6 Driver]

A couple of years ago I was asked by a work colleague to photograph a DFC that had been awarded to her late father during WW2. I felt very humbled just to be trusted with its handling as I realised that to earn it, he had displayed the sort of courage that I have thankfully never been tested for.

My one and only operational medal means more to me than the LSGC that hangs next to it, as it reminds me of some who came home in coffins every time I see it, and particularly at this time of year.

Some medals are earned more than others and as a retiree, I personally would not want a medal in the Jubilee series alongside those I received while in service, as it would just feel "wrong" to me.


(Regarding my previous post - just in case of misunderstanding - the tongue was firmly in the cheek and I wasn't knocking the Flying badge or its owner!)

[Geehovah]

I should say at the outset that I am humbled by the citations I read from past and current conflicts.

Maybe I'm in a minority but surely the Diamond Jubilee Medal is not a recognition of bravery but rather of service, just as the earlier "celebration" medals. Does that mean someone who has served for 6 years is more worthy than someone who served for 40 years but now retired. That service might have been in in a conflict zone or in Station HQ - but is service nonetheless.

I served in places which earned me a medal. I was not allowed to accept medals from other nations (some quite prestigious). The few I received put me in less danger of losing my life than flogging around at low level in Germany. None of us chose the AOR at the time we served.

Lets not confuse a DFC with a long service medal. Both have their places.

[Daveylad]

I totally agree and have signed the petition, doubt the powers that be will take any notice though, I served in The royals signals 5 years + 1972 to 1977. Missed out on a GSM N Ireland because I wasn't 18, also missed tour of gulf of Oman in 1975 which would have received GSM because I was in kenya on exercise,and obviously didnt win in the raffle for QSJM which I would have received if the same criteria had been used for the QGJM and the forthcoming QDJM.
Hope something comes from the petition.

[Wensleydale]

To say nothing of the cost of mounting the medal: £10 per medal on the bar (plus cost of miniature medal plus mounting at same cost?) - add it to recent conflicts and QGJ/LSGC etc. Certainly over £100 for many people unless you can wrangle a good deal.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

I thought this was a joke when I first read it. Using the logic displayed by some on here I reckon I should be entitled to the Silver Jubilee Medal because I am alive and served at some stage during the reign of the Queen.
Seriously, you've left the forces. Thank you for your service but please, let go!

[Old-Duffer]

FG,

The Diamond Jubilee Medal will sit alongside the Golden Jubilee Medal. It's not like the MBE - OBE - CBE thing where one supercedes t'other.

Old Duffer

[Melchett01]

Missed out on a GSM N Ireland because I wasn't 18, also missed tour of gulf of Oman in 1975 which would have received GSM

Oh come on - if that's the strength of the argument then this petition will go nowhere. Based on your logic, I should be able to get the Congo OSM because I was doing some work for the Op but from the UK rather than in country, and you may as well throw a speculative can I have the 1991 Gulf Medal in as well because I didn't get it back then because I was only 15 at the time'.

It's unfortunate, but there are very specific criteria for the QDJM and I don't know why people are spending time and energy looking for ways round them. I missed out on the QGJM by a couple of months, ho hum, I'm not going to spend the next 10 years campaigning for a change of criteria for it. If it were a petition that those being discharged prior to the 5 year cut off because of injuries received on ops, then that would probably have a lot of mileage, but this really is just a fairly unconvincing case.

[airborne_artist]

Only two of the nine who took part in the Battle of Mirbat received a medal; Labalaba (one of two KIA) had an MID.

[Lima Juliet]

Viz

I'm in receipt of a veteran's badge and will get another choccy gong because my HM Forces service can be aggregated with what I do now. Call me a bluff old traditionalist, I got other medals for "putting my pink body on the line" and the QDJM is really just a celebration of HM's long service through recognising "long" service of her crown servants.

I won't be signing the petition as I believe you're either serving at time of recognition or you're not - simple.

LJ

[FATTER GATOR]

I read somewhere (here maybe) that the new medal is significantly smaller than our campaign medals. I'm wondering if it will look odd!!

[Pontius Navigator]

FG, no odder than the QSJM, QGJM and QDJM all in a row.

[Tankertrashnav]

PN - that row will appear on the medal groups of pre 1977 surviving Victoria Cross winners, who automatically receive subsequent jubilee and coronation medals.

Btw FATTOR GATOR, British jubilee and coronation medals have been 32mm in diameter since 1911, as opposed to 36mm for campaign medals, so there is nothing new in the smaller size.

[FATTER GATOR]

In the words of a certain Rhodie pilot
'Roger thanks.....Cheers!'

I won't be signing the petition.

BTW does it replace my Golden Jubilee 'medal' or sit alongside?

[mr ripley]

As a 'veteran' I am really not interested in this medal. I'm not serving anymore so what have I done to deserve this chocolate medal?:=

[Lima Juliet]

I was in the Boy Scouts in 1977, if I can't have a Queen's Silver Jubilee Medal for promising "to do my duty for God and The Queen" then please sign my e-petition at Walter Mitty's Restaurant - Home Page (http://waltermittys.com/)

Jeeezz! :ugh:

LJ

[Tankertrashnav]

You're welcome, GATOR


BTW does it replace my Golden Jubilee 'medal' or sit alongside?


Alongside, to the right of the Golden Jubilee as you look at the medals. After any campaign medals but before any long service medal. Members of the royal family who were around in 1953 will have the full set, Coronation 1953 and the three jubilee medals.

Wonder if any of them follow PPruNe? Always suspected Drapes is a minor royal in disguise ;)

[Lima Juliet]

Brought forward from the Pprune Time Machine (post #33)!!! I've no idea why my first post has date/timed 6 hours earlier!

Viz

I'm in receipt of a veteran's badge and will get another choccy gong because my HM Forces service can be aggregated with what I do now. Call me a bluff old traditionalist, I got other medals for "putting my pink body on the line" and the QDJM is really just a celebration of HM's long service through recognising "long" service of her crown servants.

I won't be signing the petition as I believe you're either serving at time of recognition or you're not - simple.

LJ

[Top Bunk Tester]

Viz

It may be a chocolate medal but it's also some recognition to those who have bravely put their pink bodies on the line in the last 5 years.

If you aren't still serving may I suggest you knob off from here and keep your facetious comments to yourself?


Go outside and have a word with yourself, you're spouting crap :=

You get real medals for putting your pink body on the line, unless you consider doing battle at handbrake house worthy of recognition :\

[Top Bunk Tester]

but thanks for saying that serving personnel deserve no recognition..

On what planet could you ever think that I said, meant or inferred the above? As I did say though ...... You're spouting crap .... I can only hope that you've been at the kokinelli.

[mr ripley]

It may be a chocolate medal but it's also some recognition to those who have bravely put their pink bodies on the line in the last 5 years.

And what point do we disagree on? I disagree with the call for 'veterans' to be awarded it.

[MechGov]

I think that quite a lot of these bodies aren't "pink".
It's a bullsh1t medal anyway. Get over it

[Pontius Navigator]

MechGov, all pink on the inside.

[Clockwork Mouse]

It's not a decoration or a campaign medal for the military, it's a celebratory medal for public servants in the front line, including police, fire and rescue, ambulance etc, to commemorate her Majesty's 60 years on the throne. I would be happy to wear it if I qualified.
Rubbishing it as a chocolate medal is a form of inverted snobbery. Rejoice and celebrate for heaven's sake! There's not a lot else to be happy about these days.

[500N]

Clockwork Mouse

60 years on the throne.

[Wander00]

Probably why it is called the "Diamond Jubilee Medal" - OK, I'll get my coat

[Tankertrashnav]

Can remember being in primary one, Sister Gertrude's class, and John the janitor comes in and announces "The king's dead".

Bloody hell, was that nearly 60 years ago?

:(

[BEagle]

Perhaps a reasonable criterion to award the Queen's Diamond Jubilee medal to veterans would be to award it to those who, in addition to meeting the qualifying criteria for the 1977 Jubilee Medal but who did not receive it, subsequently completed a further 25 years of service?

Just a thought. But it would perhaps end the lingering sour taste many still feel about that wholly unfair 1977 'lottery'.

[exMudmover]

More relevant might be a backdated gong for those who flew Fast Jets during the Cold War. The Mudmoving and Recce world was particularly hazardous, with guys spearing in left right and centre trying to get the job done with some of the lousy equipment we had. A Single-Seat OCU I was on lost 4 out of 12 staff killed in accidents in the space of 6 months in the 70s.

How about Bounced SAPs in Germany in “5km” visibility with the windscreen covered in insects?

And how about Lightning Low Level intercepts over the sea at night with no Rad Alt and the baro alt reading minus 1500ft because of Pressure Error?

The flying was exhilarating and - like most others - I wouldn’t have wanted to do anything else, but with TACEVAL, MAXEVAL etc. the job was extremely demanding and at times downright bloody dangerous.

[Wander00]

I can remember it too - woman from across the road came over (it was half term, or I was at home sick (too young to have learned to skive off school)) and Mrs Over (her name. although from "over the road") said to My Mum that the King was dead - They clung round each other sobbing their hearts out - G VI was very much loved for taking over when E VIII skipped off with his American bird and for his leadership and humanity during WWII. Now what did I have for breakfast?.......

[cazatou]

Wander00

It was definitely Term Time - the Head Teacher came into the Classroom to tell the Teacher the news. The School then closed as a mark of respect.

[Wander00]

Yeah, must have been an early bout of man-flu - half term was usually a couple of weeks later

[Tankertrashnav]

And how about Lightning Low Level intercepts over the sea at night with no Rad Alt and the baro alt reading minus 1500ft because of Pressure Error?



OK, I'll raise you "how about stooging around at low level down the back of a Vulcan with no ejector seat?" (Which I am mightily thankful I never had to do, as I sensibly got myself posted to Victors)

No?

Of course not, you can go on forever inventing reasons to get medals. Why not admit we enjoyed what we did, got reasonably well paid for doing it, and leave it at that!

[langleybaston]

Anyone old enough to have served in any military or close support service [such as, dare I say, Met.] during the Cold War will surely ack. that our victory and our medal was in winning?
The world and the country are again in a sh1t state, but we prevented it being blown into little bits.
Like our grandfathers and fathers, todays old gits got on with the business, there were lots of laughs, some tears, but when the Wall came down our many years of service paid off.
No medal, no OBE, but we know what we achieved, and we did it with ours eyes open.
As for the Jubilee medal, I for one am very glad that there are young people out there who will qualify for one [my daughter included], holding a slender line which keeps my a**e more or less safe.

[Ron Cake]

...did 30 years plus before leaving without a medal of any kind. Is this a record?

Anyway it's a bit late for me to start collecting meaningless baubles (Queen's Jubilee medal - for gods sake!).

[1.3VStall]

Ron,

You certainly beat me, I was still bare chested after close to 28 years. (The two conflicts that occured on my watch, The Falklands and GW1, happened when I was doing stints as a "Whitehall Warrior"!).

[Tashengurt]

I'll wear it. Next to my medal from GW1 which was also awarded for attendance. At least they demonstrate that for 27 years I've been serving this country in one role or another. Much, much more than many of the oxygen thieves I deal with daily in my current employment.

[Old-Duffer]

I haven’t followed every last post but I offer the following thoughts.

THE FIVE YEAR RULE:

If an individual has received a campaign medal or gallantry award without a campaign medal but has served less than the 5 years minimum: award the QDJM.

INJUSTICE:

Personnel of the RAF Reserve (Civilian Component): RAFR(CC) are formally appointed to uniformed posts; the officers are gazetted, appear in the Air Force List (when it was published), get the scroll from HM, wear uniform which is indistinguishable from other service personnel, and often hold command authority over regular personnel. In some cases their duties are more onerous than those of the RAFR holding what the service classes as ‘real reserve appointments’.

These RAFR(CC) are, however, recruited through the civil service channels and are paid against an equivalent civil service grade eg: Sqn Ldr = C2. Often, RAFR(CC) are the ‘public face’ of the RAF in areas such as community relations and they can be involved in administering some elements of our international commitments. Those who administer the air cadets, control and oversee the work of the RAFVR(T) and provide professional and service related ‘competences’ which VR(T) personnel don’t have.

It is likely that RAFR(CC) will not be deemed eligible for the QDJM, although RAFVR(T) will be and you may wish to compare this with, for example, Police Community Support Officers, who will be eligible on the time rule.

I declare that I have no personal interest in this anomaly, other than to see ‘justice’ for those who make a valuable contribution to the armed forces, its reserves and cadets.

Old Duffer

[Pontius Navigator]

Or how about this for the 5-year rule

If you qualify for the QGJM and had 25 years service prior then the right to wear the QSJM.

If you served for 5 years after the award of the QGJM award a rosette for the QGJM.

If you quaklify for the QDJM and had more than 5 years service prior then the right to wear the QGJM.

Then 5 years after the award of the QDJM award a rosette for the QDJM.

If you have more than 10,000 hours then a new award for ...........


TIC

[langleybaston]

Quote:
in any military or close support service [such as, dare I say, Met.]
er...............no.

Noting BGB is aged 11, I can forgive his/her ignorance on the subject of close Met. support.

Amongst others, either by uniformed Mobile Met Unit or CC commissioned staff : EVERY Harrier deployed exercise in and from BFG.
EVERY 1BR Corps deployment in BFG
EVERY Purple exercise.
CORPORATE
Both Gulf Wars
The Balkans
and SF that I cannot list and many others.



The fact is that our NATO allies in the main offer only a 2nd class Met. service and wise senior planners take their own specialists with them.
Close support, yes.

[Pontius Navigator]

Don't know what all the fuss was about. I am now qualified to buy a QDJM for just £39.95 plus £12.50 for engraving, £4 for the bar and £3.00 P&P, bargain. BTW, this offer is for a comemorative medal and is not the real thing.

However I just received a newsletter from Worcestershire Medals who won the contract for the real medal - all 450,000 of them. But of real interest to those entitled is a special offer of a minature:

"In celebration of this contract award, the miniature, which has been licensed by the MoD has been reduced in price. We are also offering a special price of just £1 for the miniature when you have your miniatures mounted by us."

http://31.222.134.33/imagestream/documents/December%202011_021211140115.pdf

[Impiger]

Sadly Old Duffer the clue is in the title: Civil Component. RAF(CC) are civil servants and thus not eligible for the gong. I didn't think VR(T) officers were either but I could be wrong.

[Sloppy Link]

Quote, Tashengurt: I'll wear it. Next to my medal from GW1 which was also awarded for attendance. At least they demonstrate that for 27 years I've been serving this country in one role or another. Much, much more than many of the oxygen thieves I deal with daily in my current employment.

Hmmn. By my reckoning, you should already have the QGJM already next to your Gulf Medal, the QDJM will be worn next to the QGJM, in the most junior position (assuming you have no other medals for example LSGC, ACSM or foreign awards which all have lower precedence regardless of when received). The only funny would be if you had broken service where it would be possible to have only the Gulf Medal and QDJM, I would have to check on that.

SL

[Pontius Navigator]

Sadly Old Duffer the clue is in the title: Civil Component. RAF(CC) are civil servants and thus not eligible for the gong. I didn't think VR(T) officers were either but I could be wrong.

Impiger you are correct in that CC and CS were not eligible but the argument is that the RAF(CC) are actually fully gazetted (until it went online) and have authority over all officers and OR junior to them. The civil police and fire service as also public servants.

The truth of the matter is that Doctor Moody made a bum decision and no one is prepared to reverse it.

[Lima Juliet]

I play for the "2nd XV" (ie. Reserves) these days and I will get one apparently (medal number 6 to join the other 4 for eating pizza and Timmy Hortons and the other choccy just for being in). :ok:

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

Sloppy Link

The medal order is a matter of some debate at present, here is an extract from the latest DIN advising medal order (different to yours):

3. The medal is to be worn on the left breast, immediately after campaign medals, including UN and NATO medals, and medals for valuable service with all other jubilee and coronation medals in date order of award.

So I read that as the QDJM goes right at the very end - I understand that the recent DIN for the ACSM said the same thing in contradiction to other medal orders of wear.:confused:

I even asked my SWO the other day after Remembrance Parade and he had also been looking at the same thing and could not get a straight answer out of the medals office.

LJ

[Tankertrashnav]

The reason you are having difficulty in understanding that is because it is a confusing bit of writing, JB. What is meant by 'medals for valuable service' actually means a rather short list of medals, such as the Imperial Service Medal and a few former colonial medals, none of which apply to current British service personnel. It does not mean long service and good conduct medals, which continue to rank after coronation and jubilee medals, including the new QDJM.

The only medals which come after long service medals are commonwealth and foreign awards.

Oh and the VC takes precedence over absolutely everything, but I don't believe we have any in the ranks of PPruNe (unless anyone knows better!)

[teeteringhead]

On present plans VR(T) will get it, as will the ATC Adult SNCOs/WOs who are arguably more "civilian" than RAFR(CC). For example, CC are subject to the Armed Forces Act, while Adult SNCOs are not.

The apparent criterion is "receiving remuneration for volunteer uniformed service." In practice, it looks like the preparatory staff work consisted of digging out the QGJM regs, crossing out "QGJM" and inserting "QDJM"!

TTN is - of course - correct on mounting order. There is an incredibly detailed list in AP 1358, which is not entirely intuitive. I put my QGJM in the wrong place initially, as I (wrongly) assumed that my ACSM counted as a campaign medal, and would come before the Jamboree Medal. In fact the ACSM is technically a Long Service Medal and so comes after the QGJM.

[Tashengurt]

Sloppy,
You're right, I do have the QGJM I just failed to mention it. Actually that one was awarded after a break in service and is based on an aggregate of mob and Police service.

[Sloppy Link]

Leon,
Methinks SWO needs to do his homework, the Royal Warrant clearly states the ACSM is after medals for Meritorious Service, on checking Meritorious service . What serves to confuse is the ACSM has the word "Campaign" in its title when it is in fact awarded for long service thereby explaining its juniority. Therefore, the correct order (assuming entitled) would be: Honours & Awards - Campaign Medals (in order of award to the individual) - QGJM - QDJM - MSM - ACSM94 - ACSM11 - LSGC - Foreign Awards.
There are funnies, Op Agila being one, it sits at the most junior but above LSGC regardless of when awarded. I recall this is because it was never recognised as a campaign medal but a peacekeeping medal.

Simples.

[Tankertrashnav]

There is an incredibly detailed list in AP 1358, which is not entirely intuitive.


I agree, particularly as regards the Accumulated Campaign Service Medal. I think it was an odd decision to place this one with the long service medals, but that is the position as it stands.

SWOs aren't the only ones to get confused. When I mounted a soldier's medals for him in my shop, he was back after a couple of weeks demanding that they be re-mounted as his CSM had told him that the QGJM should go after his LS&GC. I gave him a photocopy of the order of wear and sent him off with the unenviable prospect of telling his sergeant major he was wrong.

[The Helpful Stacker]

I had an interesting chat with a SWO a few years back who insisted that my ACSM had been mounted in the wrong position. As others have said it seems that the 'Campaign' part of the medal title is where the confusion arises.

To be fair though I also assumed that it was to be mounted with the campaign medals and it was the Arborfield garrison tailor who corrected me.

[teeteringhead]

There are other oddities, particularly where GSM 62 pattern (mostly NI) is concerned vis a vis other campaign medals, Falklands, Gulf various etc. Have seen SWOs going hairless insisting they should all be in the same order.

Also remember MANY years ago an aged Regt officer who had an old style GSM (equal green purple green stripes) which he wore IN FRONT OF his WW 2 medals - cue apoplectic SWO. Until he pointed out the GSM was from Palestine in 1937! (I did say many years ago .........!)

[Old-Duffer]

Regarding the eligibility for the QDJM, this is the letter I have sent today to the Secretary of State for Defence. I work with CC class reservists and feel keenly that their omission is grossly unfair. I have urged some of them to rush out and sign up in an eligible class of the reserves before it's too late!!

Dear Mr Hammond,

The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee Medal (QDJM)

I write ask if you will have the MOD reconsider the eligibility criteria for the award of the above medal to some classes of armed forces reserves.

Most reservists are included in the eligibility grouping, with the exception of the ‘Civilian Component’ (CC) of the reserves. Despite their title, which emanates from the fact that they are recruited and employed via a civil service arrangement, these personnel are required to wear uniform and are subject to the armed forces disciplinary code, in addition to the civil service code. The CC officers hold a formal commission, which is recorded in the London Gazette, as well as the individual service lists. Furthermore, an officer’s appointment to a CC commission includes a parchment of appointment issued in Her Majesty’s name. Their uniform is indistinguishable from that of a regular service person and their duties often require them to exercise command and full disciplinary powers over regular personnel.

CC personnel, who are predominantly former regular service men or women, are recruited and employed because they possess competencies which are unlikely to be readily available elsewhere. For example, they may be air traffic controllers or former members of aircrew. Those employed with the cadet forces, oversee the work of the volunteer reservists (who are eligible for the QDJM), provide professional and specialist services to them and are responsible for the nurturing and training of those volunteer reservists.

Many CC personnel feel a deep sense of disappointment that they are being overlooked for the award of this prestigious recognition of Her Majesty’s reign and their dismay is heightened when it is realised that Police Community Support Officers, for example, are to receive the award.

Please may I urge you to redress this injustice, which I bring to your notice not because I will be a beneficiary of any change but because CC personnel are an integral and respected element of the armed forces and I believe their omission from the award’s criteria is unfair.

Yours sincerely

Old Duffer

[teeteringhead]

Nice one O-D, but don't hold your breath!

[SilsoeSid]

If I don't qualify for the QDJM by being current frontline Police Staff, why on Earth should I get one for simply being a veteran? Isn't that why we have the 'Veterans Badge'?

My colleague was shot at while doing his job during the recent riots, yet he will not be getting the medal. Why should someone whose only qualification is that they survived the NAAFI bop of a Friday night in Germany all those years ago get one, and not him?

[APG63]

Too much fuss about a comemorative medal. For God's sake grow up! The rules are there, we're not going to change them and none of us should be there to collect gongs.

[Tankertrashnav]

Just seen the Second Sea Lord on TV sporting his CBE, the QGJM and ..., er that's it! Never mind, he'll be picking up another medal to go with them in Feb, and meanwhile, if he keeps close to his desk and never goes to sea then soon he may be ruler of the Queen's Navee ;)

[BEagle]

Now, landsmen all, whoever you may be
If you want to rise to the top of the tree
If your soul isn't fettered to an office stool
Be careful to be guided by this golden rule
Stick close to your desks and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of the Queen's Navy!

(G&S)

[Whenurhappy]

Beags,

How often I hum that little ditty when I am in Main Building, or in particular, Air Command.

Current CAS hasn't got much more bling than 1SL, either...

[top_cover]

Don't know what all the fuss is about, it's chocolate, if you get it you have to wear it, if you don't then you don't have to fork out money for your mess dress. It has no significance other that it's a piece of metal to hang on your uniform, I don't believe it says anything about achievement !

[Whenurhappy]

Top_cover. I agree, the significance of this medal is not that great for the individual - perhaps there is a degree of vanity involved with some posters?

It looks like I'll be in long enough now to qualify...not sure I will bother to have it mounted as my days to do aftewards are few...

[Lyneham Lad]

Anyone want to buy my Queen's Jubilee Medal? Untarnished (has not seen light of day since June 1977...)

Mind you, any potential bidders who want a photograph of it first will have to give me time to search the loft.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

The fact that some folk actually "want" this medal bemuses the crap out of me, its nowt but a Fairground bauble :confused:

[The Helpful Stacker]

The fact that some folk actually "want" this medal bemuses the crap out of me, its nowt but a Fairground bauble

The crystal-backed det dodgers feel left out, they want tin hanging off their chests too.

http://aweirdthing.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/dastardly2.jpg

[Shack37]

There are other oddities, particularly where GSM 62 pattern (mostly NI) is concerned vis a vis other campaign medals, Falklands, Gulf various etc. Have seen SWOs going hairless insisting they should all be in the same order.

May be (mostly NI) but extends from Borneo to Aden and some unpleasantness in between as well as NI. Was initially (unofficially) referred to as the Borneo GSM.

[Melchett01]

The crystal-backed det dodgers feel left out, they want tin hanging off their chests too.

That's no way to talk about the Typhoon Force ;)

[The B Word]

Melchy

http://tottenhamonmymind.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/vic_bob_handbags.jpg

Green eyed monster?

[Melchett01]

B Word ... where on earth did you dig that clip up from ... a blast from the past if ever there was one. Hmmmm Ulrika....

Anyway, back to the matter in hand, no green eyed monsters at this end. I'm actually quite looking forward to getting it, just accepting it for what it is: a gift from the Boss - albeit one that comes with a hefty bill to get the rest re-mounted.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

m actually quite looking forward to getting it

I am hoping I am out before it arrives, another embarrassing piece of tat :ok:

[Melchett01]

I am hoping I am out before it arrives, another embarrassing piece of tat

Ahhh but I'm northern - we like tat oop north.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Ahhh but I'm northern - we like tat oop north.

Wear it with pride Sir :ok:

[Fire 'n' Forget]

An extra piece of bling off the chest does no harm, the people bleating make me laugh.

All of us at mess functions etc notice the bloke with a rack :}

I get the impression on this thread that it is the retired/cold war lot that didn't get any chest tin that are not impressed ?

Listen, it's free ! No receipt/sand/kissing required........I would have thought that in itself is worth it !

Let those with a chip carry on bleating :ok:

[teeteringhead]

May be (mostly NI) but extends from Borneo to Aden and some unpleasantness in between as well as NI. Was initially (unofficially) referred to as the Borneo GSM. Indeed so Shack 37, for completeness the others are:

Borneo, Radfan, South Arabia (the Aden one), Malay Peninsula, South Vietnam! (Australian Forces only), Dhofar, Lebanon, Mine Clearance (Gulf of Suez 1984), Gulf, Kuwait, N Iraq & S Turkey and Air Operations Iraq,

A total of 13 clasps; officially the maximum awarded to a single individual has been 6, but that is likely to exclude SF.

And of course, the issue of the medal and or clasp for NI greatly exceeds in number all the others put together, ISTR at the height of the operation (1972?) something like 20 000+ troops were deployed in Province.

Any of the above are worth more than a commemorative medal ....

[Shack37]

Indeed so Shack 37, for completeness the others are:

Borneo, Radfan, South Arabia (the Aden one), Malay Peninsula, South Vietnam! (Australian Forces only), Dhofar, Lebanon, Mine Clearance (Gulf of Suez 1984), Gulf, Kuwait, N Iraq & S Turkey and Air Operations Iraq,


Thanks Teeteringhead, even more widespread than I realised:ok:

[Old-Duffer]

In today's post, I received a response to the letter sent to SofS for Defence re the award to RAFR (Civilian Component) personnel (see my Post No: 80 above).

Having told me what I'd already told him, Dep Chief of Defence Staff Secretariat informed me that there were no plans to review the criteria with regards the CC component in the reserve forces.

The good news, however, is that he confirmed that the contribution of ALL reserve personnel was highly valued. I was also informed that RAFR (CC) and others of that ilk can apply for the Veterans' Badge, so that's OK then!!

Old Duffer

[eyepix]

i agree, give it to everyone and it loses the value, and there are far more deserving people on ops who should be getting it, but arent ? and....its not being given for just the 5 yrs service....there are 3 other hard criteria that you have to satisfy......

[eyepix]

....different medals mean different things to different people, to some people its recognition of all the hard work they are still putting in, so its not about the medal..or the fact its commemorative, or its a piece of crap that isnt a "real medal" . people have different reasons why they want it, so we shouldnt "slag" em off. to me its this.....
my service was cut short when i had a massive heart attack (not my fault) i volunteered for all the theatres at the time.........but had to stay in u.k. while my mates went on ops.......they got the gongs....i got kicked out :)......so to get the Q.D.J. would have been nice...( as im still doing a bit)...as at least its something else to show for all my hard work, ( would prefer one that i earned in combat ) but not to be........and because of the attatched extra criteria......im 6 hours short of getting it now........it would have been nice, but not gonna lose any sleep over it. , got my vets badge.....which to me is recognition for what i did.

[gr4techie]

Why doesn't somebody who once was a lollypop lady in Leeds back in 1995 get a QDJM? Makes me bloody livid it does. Bloody livid.

Them Lollypop ladies probably seen more action than half the guys I work with .

[rlsbutler]

I am very sorry to read all the stuff about chocolate baubles.

This medal is first of all a way of celebrating HM's long and (lets face it) happy reign.

Might it help to think of the award, whether it is received or begrudged, as we would think of a parade - us in tribute rather than us receiving a hand-out ?

One of our contributors knows that I am one of many to value (and pay to have mounted ... and to wear possibly just the once) the Malaysian PJM. In the correspondence and the investiture, I have been conscious more than anything of the honourable intent of the Malaysian government (and the measurable indignity that our MOD wished upon it) when it issued this medal. I value that good intent.

I am happy not to get the QDJM, as I would be happy not to have to bull up for the associated parade. But I am very glad for HM that enough of the medals can be issued - and that most of the recipients will have to do some more marching before they get it !

[SOSL]

It's not really a medal; it's more like a badge. The same goes for the QGJM; I got one just for being in uniform at the time even though I couldn't quite do up the top button on my trousers (they seemed to have shrunk)!

On the other hand the QSJM, in '77, because it was rationed, tended to be handed out on merit. I was allocated one medal for my flight of more than 100 RAF and RN tradespersons. I awarded it to a Junior Technician who had just failed his promex to Cpl, for the fourth time!

However, in the preceding 12 months he had developed a servicing procedure (SP) on his own initiative, which reduced the aborted Spey starts on the RAF and RN F4 fleets by more than 50%.

[PTR 175]

As the Silver Jub Med is also being mentioned. I was serving on a well known Buccaner OCU at that date. There it was dished out via a lottery, certainly for the ground crew. I also know of places where it was given out on 'merit' and if I recall correctly every body at Cranwell on the 'Eagle Flight ?' Ground crew got one.

It was a shambles how it was done and as people have eluded to still leaves a bad taste. It used to cause no end of arguement until we all realised that they were given out in such a random fashon.

As to the petition, no. It would only accompany my LS & GC, somewhere in my attic.

[Melchett01]

Still, look on the bright side. If you didn't get a QDJM, you might qualify for a NATO Libya gong which has just been announced (if you believe ARRSE and a couple of the other medal collector sites).

[Pontius Navigator]

you might qualify for a NATO Libya gong .

1. For following the Pprune thread for 60 days continuous or

2. Contributing at least 13 times with at least 200 words.

3. If on active service in another theatre, ie FI, 13 days continuous:

Provided in all cases that you logged on between 0001 and 2359 on 20110401 all times Zulu.

[Courtney Mil]

I like your style, PN. :ok:

Look, it's not a campaign medal, it's a commemorative gong. A wonderful thing for those that are eligible, tough tits for those of us that aren't. It's not for us to decide what it's for, just accept it and crack on. Well done to all those that are serving and that will receive it. That should be our attitude, not whining like petulant teenagers that we don't get it.

Let it go and celebrate Her Majesty's diamond jubilee.

[Biggus]

I realize that it is well intended, and have nothing but the greatest respect and admiration for the Queen, however, at the end of the day the award of this medal to many in the military will mean little more than incurring the costs of having their uniform altered and their other medals re-ranked. We have more than enough other reminders of our service and achievements to be proud of.


Quite possibly a petty point, but nevertheless a valid one, at least in my opinion. I'm fairly sure that the original intention was not to have members of the military pay for the privilege of commemorating the jubilee. Personally I would rather see a wider distribution among non military organizations who generally don't receive much regular public recognition.....

Feel free to disagree, as I'm sure many of you will!

[Courtney Mil]

Not at all, Biggus. You're right. I don't think it's a "get them to pay" conspiracy, but it is excellent recognition of ALL those who are serving on this great occasion.

[Lima Juliet]

Here's an interesting thought. Under the latest DIN here: http://armycadets.com/uploads/documents/News/987_2011DIN09-012.pdf
At para 4c it states

c. Regular Reserves. Any member of the Regular Reserves who is in effective paid military service on 6 Feb 12, as defined in paragraphs 4a and b, will be eligible for the medal if their aggregated Regular service and/or Reserve service as detailed in para 8 amounts to 5 years qualifying service on 6 Feb 12

Now all those that retired with an immediate pension under the Reserves Forces Act 1980 (that joined before 1997) and those that joined after 1997 under Reserve Forces Act 1996, are in the "Regular Reserves" until their liability ceases (IIRC Age 60 for RFA80 airmen and SNCOs, age 60 for all officers and age 55 for RFA96 airmen and SNCOs - and a bit later if you are 1 star+).

So I think an awful lot of people who retired with an immediate pension recently will be eligable. :eek:

LJ

[PTT]

A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon :rolleyes:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Trouble is this particular piece of colored ribbon will end up being worn by countless folk who have never seen a days fighting in their lives, it's nowt but an attendance bauble.

[Old-Duffer]

LJ,

Your post 114 has been tried before.

I think the crux is 'effective paid military service'. If you are not in the mob, you're not on the effective strength and your reserve liability is classed as 'non-effective'

O-D

[teeteringhead]

If only you were a PCSO you would qualify ..........!

My good friend Old-Duffer has tried on behalf of RAFR(CC) - which he no longer is - and failed. For those who don't know, RAFR(CC):

1. Hold the Queen's Commission.

2. Have powers of command under the Armed Forces Act.

3. Are themselves subject to the Armed Forces Act.

4. Most wear uniform every day to work.

5. Wear no distinguishing mark (R, VR, VRT or A) on their uniforms.

6. Hold MoD Forms 90 which are indistinguishable from those held by regulars.

7. (And this is probably crucial!) Are paid by MoD and not by RAF!

But "rules is rules" and just like anyone who misses an operational service medal by one day or one mile (and their case must be a stronger one) - tough!

[Old-Duffer]

From: Old Duffer, Duffer Castle, Duffer on the Hill, Duffshire

Mr William Nye
PPS to HRH The Prince of Wales
Clarence House
LONDON
SW1A 1BA 12 February 2012

Dear Mr Nye,

The Queen’s Diamond Jubilee Medal (QDJM)

I hope you will forgive my writing on such an apparently trivial issue but I do so because I believe His Royal Highness may wish to be aware of a possible embarrassment regarding eligibility to the award of the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee Medal (QDJM).

The criteria for the award of the QDJM allow for it to be granted to most members of the emergency services and armed forces who meet the principal requirement of five year’s service.

Within the armed forces, however, are a group of reservists described as ‘Military Support Force’ (MSF) or the ‘Civilian Component’ (CC). Despite their title, which emanates from the fact that they are recruited and employed via a civil service arrangement, these personnel are:

Required to wear uniform and are subject to both the armed forces disciplinary code, and its equivalent civil service code.
The MSF officers also hold a formal commission, which is recorded in the London Gazette, as well as the individual service lists.
Furthermore, an officer’s appointment to a CC commission includes a parchment of appointment issued in Her Majesty’s name.
Their uniform is indistinguishable from that of a regular service person and their duties often require them to exercise command and full disciplinary powers over regular personnel.

Military Support Force personnel are predominantly former regular service men or women and are recruited and employed because they possess competencies which are unlikely to be readily available elsewhere. For example, they may be air traffic controllers or former members of aircrew. Those employed with the cadet forces, oversee the work of the volunteer reservists (who are eligible for the QDJM), provide professional and specialist services to them and are responsible for the nurturing and training of those volunteer reservists.

Many MSF personnel feel a deep sense of disappointment that they are being overlooked for the award of this prestigious recognition of Her Majesty’s reign. Their dismay is heightened when, for example, it is realised that Police Community Support Officers; who are civilians and not warranted police officers and whose powers to act are exceptionally limited, are to be granted the award.

I have raised this matter with the MOD but the Defence Secretariat is unwilling to reconsider the issue nor will they say why MSF personnel are being excluded. Please may I urge His Royal Highness to attempt to redress this injustice, which I bring to your notice not because I will be a beneficiary of any change but because MSF personnel are an integral and respected element of the armed forces and I believe their omission from the award’s criteria is unfair, particularly when the commitment required by some other eligible groups is significantly less than that required from MSF personnel.

Yours sincerely

Old Duffer

[Tankertrashnav]

Old - Duffer - your letter is grammatical, contains no spelling mistakes and presents cogent arguments in plain English.

As such it is only likely to confuse the civil servant who is given the job of dealing with it, and I therefore fear it has no chance of success :rolleyes:

[Aeronut]

Does Terminal Leave qualify as paid effective service?

[teeteringhead]

Nice one again O-D! Don't want to seem picky, but isn't MSF Military Support Function? That notwithstanding, a beautifully crafted letter - and who knows, some friendly journo lurking here may take up the case.....

[Pontius Navigator]

Aeronut, yes.

[corporal punishment]

I turned 68 a while ago and discovered t'other day that I'm to get the QDJM as I'm a sort of reservist. It must be true, 'cause my name's on a letter!!

This set me wondering. I joined the regular RAF in 1963 and since then have been in regular or some sort of reserve or volunteer reserve, service ever since.

Apart from the Royals, Marshals of the RAF and a few others of that ilk, are there many others who can beat aged 68 and 49 years in the mob?

If I can get to my 50th year, I intend to order a zimmer frame from stores - painted air force blue of course.

Corporal Punishment

[Lima Juliet]

If you get to 50 years of service, how about your own Jubilee medal? :D

[Old-Duffer]

What a good idea LJ. However, I think anything which 'smacks' (no pun intended) of a celebration of corporal punishment would not be appreciated by the powers that be.

I must say, however, I wish I could do it all again but this time, knowing what I know now.

Cpl P

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

I will be getting mine in the coming months and if any of those miffed at not qualifying want to pm me their address it will be in the post the following morning :ok:

[Lima Juliet]

Cpl P

Why have you signed on Old Duffer's log in? You wouldn't have 2 seperate accounts would you..:eek::=

LJ

[TMK1]

There was a do at Brize recently to celebrate an individual's 50 years of Service.

[Old-Duffer]

LJ,

Um err ah - what me Gov!

Fair cop

O-D aka Cpl P

[BEagle]

There was a do at Brize recently to celebrate an individual's 50 years of Service.

Actually it was to celebrate his first 50 years of commissioned service in uniform - and an excellent do it was too!

His first encounter with Brize had been from AOITS South Cerney in 1961 when he and his colleagues were despatched to protect the USAF from CND protesters who'd arrived by train at Bampton station right next to the base. It had been decided that this was preferable to letting the American guards shoot them...:\

[mayorofgander]

Hi Guys;

Saw out of a window somewhere in Oxfordshire a Wg Cdr with his Golden Jubilee medal on...He'll be looking forward to his new one to stop it being lonely....:D

Later;
MOG:cool:

[Pontius Navigator]

MOG, now there's a thought. After 20 years of operations and only a QGJM to show one must ask where an individual fit in to our Expeditionary Air Force.

[Whenurhappy]

Sadly, I can think of quite a few serving Wing Commanders, Group Captains and Air Commodores who joined at roughly the same time as me who will feel a little less naked now they can wear the QDJM ribbon - although some of them have OBEs for building children's pay parks (I kid thee not!). By comparison, having adopted a less than mainstream career in a niche area, I almost completed my second row, albeit all 'round' medals. Not bad as a 'blunty' if I say so myself. Not that they mean anything outside of the Service...

[Pontius Navigator]

WUH, ah, but 20-30 years down the line you will be able to wear them in a long bar unlike others that may be forced to wear vanity medals.

[Melchett01]

adly, I can think of quite a few serving Wing Commanders, Group Captains and Air Commodores who joined at roughly the same time as me who will feel a little less naked now they can wear the QDJM ribbon

WUH, ah, but 20-30 years down the line you will be able to wear them in a long bar unlike others that may be forced to wear vanity medals

And I can already picture the awkward questions in years to come - not so much what did you do in the war grandad, but more along the lines of so just how did you manage to avoid all the wars grandad? Were you the LMF crew?

[Whenurhappy]

In 20-30 years time it will be 'Granddad, why do you smell of wee?' along with 'how much can we get for your medals on ebay?'

On the last point, I do find it so sad that families continue to sell, indeed, throw away proper medals from parents/grandparents etc. My Grandfather, who served throughout WWI had just a couple of medals and when his widow died about 40 years ago, my mad aunt grabbed them and pawned then for a couple of dollars. Never to be seen again - the medals, that is. I've tried to track them down as it would be the only tangible thing that the family had to remember Granddad (he died when my father was very young, in the 1920s). We have no photos and his rather grand discharge certificate which was restored and framed and was pride of place in my brother's study - until he died 18 months ago and his second wife decided to add it to the skip.

Although I do not collect military or medals, I have picked up 2 medals in Charity shops and tracked down the service history of the individual. No point handing them back to his descedants - they've clearly got no use for them!

[Red Line Entry]

In years to come, anyone who ever wore a military uniform will be in such a minority that they will never need to justify their medals or lack of!

[Stuff]

Whenurhappy - Your post is rather contradictory. Your Grandad's medals were sold off against your wishes and you then tried to track them down to no avail.

Why then, when once you discover the history of the medals in your possession do you write off the descendants as "clearly got no use for them!"

Surely you would be overjoyed if some collector who obtained your Grandad's originals contacted you and offered their return?

[Whenurhappy]

Perhaps I should explain - they would have been sent to the charity shop by relatives when Granddad popped his clogs.

My father in law ran a business winding up deceased estates and he lost count of the number of times when medals were found (or similar items) and these were offered to the relatives who either showed no interest ('throw them away or see if Oxfam want them') or expected to make a fortune by selling them, based on grossly inflated Antiques Roadshow estimates. Very few seemed to want them. Sad.

I suppose in the case of the two WWI medals I picked up in Banardo's I should attempt to track down relatives. But I just can't be bothered knowing it was the next of kin who probably decided to get rid of them in the first place.

[Clockwork Mouse]

In the old cold war days you got one ribbon, the GSM, and the various punch ups you were involved in were represented by bars. After 34 years in the teeth arms I have only two ribbons, of which the only campaign medal is the GSM. Quantity of ribbon doesn't necessarily reveal the full career history. And the other one is not a jubilee gong!

[teeteringhead]

In the old cold war days you got one ribbon, the GSM, and the various punch ups you were involved in were represented by bars. ... indeed - took me 31 years from first GSM to second bar (although other campaign etc medals were earned - but "only round ones!").

Funny old world - when I joined most stn cdrs seemed to have (at least) a DFC and a few campaign ribbons, if not a DSO - then came the relatively medal free cold war years when there were AOCs with nothing between their wings and their breast pocket button, if they'd managed to avoid MBE/OBE or maybe an AFC for being a display pilot.

And now - most stn cdrs seem to have (at least) a DFC and a few campaign ribbons, if not a DSO .......

plus ça change .....

Edited to add: and for O-D/Cpl P :=, does that now make you "Jubilee Medal and bar"? ;)

[Old-Duffer]

Oh TTH,

Fancy rediculing me so publicly :p

Actually, besides the two 'jubilees' there are a couple of others; one with 'bars' and t'other from a foreign power, who seemed grateful for my modest contribution. I've left the various Independence gongs in the cupboard, however.

I've probably posted this story before but the Pathfinder; Hamish Mahaddie went to Buck House to collect a DSO, a DFC and an AFC from the King (all awarded within a 3 month period). He already had the ribbons sewn on and these were in addition to a Czech gallantry award. This was about 1943 and before most of the campaign and war service medals had been specified. After the investiture, Mahaddie and his mates repaired to the nearest hostelry for some refreshment, when he was approached by a lady who asked him what the medals ribbons were. Mahaddie replied: "Madam, I've not the slightest idea, they were on the uniform when I bought it".

O-D

[foldingwings]

Frankly, I can't be ar*ed to look through all 8 pages and so I apologise if this has already been covered but this:

Diamond Jubilee Medal | Commemorative Queens 2012 Medals for Sale (http://www.awardmedals.com/commemorative-diamond-jubilee-medal-p-19576.html?cPath=21_33)

Eligibility
Available to all those who have served Queen and Country from 6th February 1952, the date Elizabeth II ascended to the throne, or those who are currently serving members of the Armed Forces, Emergency Services personnel (paid, retained or voluntary), Prison Service, Police Community Support Officers, holders of the Victoria Cross and George Cross and members of the Royal Household. Next of kin and direct descendants may also apply. The miniature medal and all other items are available without restriction. The Government of the United Kingdom will be striking an official medal which will be issued to eligible serving personnel only. Many deserving individuals will not be eligible to the official issue including all those who are no longer serving. As this is a commemorative and not official issue, it is to be worn with pride not alongside gallantry decorations, but separately and distinctively.

Please note that St John Ambulance volunteers are not authorised to wear this commemorative issue.

has to be a bloody joke! Surely?

If they don't want to give it to us retired wallas (and why should they - our need would compound the national debt a thousand-fold given that there are more of us on the outside than on the inside, these days!) then who in their right mind would buy one and when would you wear it?

Is it me or have we become a very shallow nation?

Foldie:E

PS. I'm bloody glad St John's Ambulance can't buy it, I wouldn't want to be thought of of having to share a medal with them (or prison officers; PCSOs; and 999 telephone operators!).

PPS. Bloody country has gone to the dogs!

[Tankertrashnav]

then who in their right mind would buy one and when would you wear it?


Where have you been for the last 20 odd years Foldie? Every Remembrance Day Service from the Cenotaph to Lesser Muckbury in the Mire is attended by veterans weighed down with rows of these things, which usually outnumber their "real" medals by a significant factor. When I was in the medal business I did a steady trade with chaps ordering themselves what might be called "vanity" medals. Didn't worry me, I just took their money, if they wanted to dress themselves up as Russian generals that was their affair. I must admit though, I'm starting to feel slightly conspicuous on Remembrance Sunday now with my single GSM!

Incidentally do you think if a SJAB volunteer orders one of these things they are going to send the cheque back? No chance!

[Pontius Navigator]

PS. I'm bloody glad St John's Ambulance can't buy it, I wouldn't want to be thought of of having to share a medal with them

Oh Foldie, I forgive you for you know not what you say.

During the war in Guernsey the St John's remained a uniformed service with sergeants, corporals etc despite the German occupation. The Germans didn't seem to realise that they were representing King and country even though occupied. To this day the St John's are part of the annual commemoration parade and service at Foulon Cemetery each October. They probably also parade for Remembrance too.

[foldingwings]

Whatever!!

I must be very very old fashioned then. I would never consider buying let alone wearing a medal that I hadn't been awarded!

By the way, no malintent to those of the support services who earned their stripes during the war; I was thinking more of some of the overweight scruffs that I have seen at sporting events!!!

Foldie:confused:

[November4]

On the well know auction site (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Official-Queens-Diamond-Jubilee-Full-Size-Medal-and-Ribbon-first-get-them-/180793474992?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn% 3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D6610400896013684496)

Official Queens Diamond Jubilee Full Size Medal and Ribbon (first to get them !!

This is the Full Size Replacement Queens Diamond Jubilee Medal and although it cannot be worn until the 6th of Feb you can buy it here now

[TheWizard]

Pretty careless to need a 'replacement' full size when they haven't even been given out yet!!
Apart from the fact they cannot be worn officially till June anyway!:ugh:

[Tankertrashnav]

As a medal enthusiast I am pleased that those currently serving are sporting such impressive rows of medals. However it is incumbent on them to wear them correctly, particularly when in the public eye.

I shall spare the lady's blushes by not naming her, but the RAF sergeant who was present when The Queen visited Fortum and Masons today was wearing her LS & GC back to front (ie with the monarch's head innermost).

I am sure that HM was too well-mannered to say anything, but you can be damn sure she noticed!

[aw ditor]

Fortnum&Masons.

Getting your hamper order in early?

AD'

[Tankertrashnav]

I wish!

Was on BBC TV news

[500N]

TTS

Not nearly as bad as loose threads on the braid of the uniform.

[Biggus]

About 5 posts ago The Wizard said...."they haven't even been given out yet!!
Apart from the fact they cannot be worn officially till June anyway! "


Is that correct - or has nobody told Harry.....

Harry wears Jubilee medal in public - Yahoo! (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/harry-joins-bahamas-naval-exercise-050547479.html)

..or is it a case of one rule for some....?

[Courtney Mil]

Nope. Just a good man representing our country and our Queen in a special year. Maybe the Palace is better organized in these matters than anyone else.

Military Aircrew forum? Never seen so many disloyal servants.

[Melchett01]

Maybe the Palace is better organized in these matters than anyone else.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree on this one. HRH is in military uniform and is subject to the same rules and regulations as every other person wearing uniform. And the DIN, which sets out the rules and regulations for the wear of this award, clearly states when the ribbon, miniature and full size medals can be worn.

Although representing HM on an official tour, it does shall we say raise 'presentational issues' if he wants to be treated as an ordinary serviceman.

[Biggus]

CM,

Whilst I appreciate that tone is often difficult to read in a brief post, I find you presumption as to my level of loyalty, especially as you don't know me, somewhat objectionable.

I offered three possible alternatives as to why Harry was wearing the medal, one of which was that The Wizard simply got his facts wrong....




As a general comment, if ones conditions of service, accommodation, pay, pension, food, etc are continually eroded and degraded, compulsary redundancies are being made, why should it surprise anyone that the level of loyalty being shown by some of the troops should not fall correspondingly?

[500N]

It's unlikely he would have worn it without approval. After all, how many people would have been involved in preparing his uniforms for the trip, civilian and military as well as having to get his medals remounted for all the different uniforms.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

I am sure that I read recently that the medal may be worn as soon as it has been received.


Aaron.

[Melchett01]

Nope, can't be worn before 5 Jun - direct cut from the DIN (available on Google)

The medal or medal ribbon may not be worn until entitlement has been confirmed. The medal ribbon and appropriate miniature may be worn from 7 Feb 12 (6 Feb is also the anniversary of the death of the late King George VI and is not a suitable date to be celebrated). The medal may not be worn prior to 5 Jun 12 (the date of the official Diamond Jubilee Thanksgiving Service).

[Chris Griffin]

ring ring, ring ring

" Gran, can I wear that medal for your diamond doo dah?"

"Of course H"

Job done.

CM - "Never seen so many disloyal servants." I am increasingly of the opinion that quite a few posters haven't seen a days military service in their lives.

I know for a fact that very very few current serving aircrew look at this tripe.

[TheWizard]

Bearing in mind he is also wearing the Golden Jubilee medal (which was given out in 2002 when HRH was only 18 and not even in the military) I suspect he has had the rules waived and been given special permission to wear both. There has to be some perks! ;)

[baffman]

Reporting on Prince Harry's official Jubilee duty visit to the Caribbean, the Telegraph mentioned that Her Majesty the Queen had granted special permission for him to wear her Diamond Jubilee Medal before the normal authorised date.

"Granted special permission" from such a source means "is your duty to", DIN or no DIN.

As with the Golden Jubilee Medal which Prince Harry also holds, Her Majesty has the clear prerogative to issue and authorise this medal irrespective of the military administrative system, to commemorate what is, after all chaps, Her Jubilee.

[Tankertrashnav]

Bearing in mind he is also wearing the Golden Jubilee medal (which was given out in 2002 when HRH was only 18 and not even in the military) I suspect he has had the rules waived and been given special permission to wear both. There has to be some perks! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif


Always been standard practice for members of the royal family to receive coronation and jubilee medals as a matter of course, whether or not they are serving in the armed forces. If you look at Prince Charles & Princess Anne's medals you will see they both have the 1953 Coronation Medal, at which time they were 4 & 2 years old respectively!