One time MNPS authorisation

[Yogibaboo]

I am planning to ferry CJ1 from Europe to North America soon. That would be nice and safe to fly above FL280 in MNPS airspace. I will apply to CAA for one time authorisation to fly thru MNPS airspace. Anyone have tried to get that kind of authorisation before? Any advices?

Yogi

[mutt]

Do you have dual independent long range navigation systems?

Mutt

[Yogibaboo]

Do you have dual independent long range navigation systems?

Mutt

Affirmative. Even tripple, if GPS counts for long range. Single Universal FMS and dual Garmin 530. And I have proper training, International Procedures including MNPS at FSI.

Yogi

[eckhard]

Do you have dual independent long range navigation systems?

Mutt

You only need Dual LRN systems if you want unrestricted MNPS approval. With one LRN system, MNPS may be approved, but restricted to the 'Blue Spruce' routes.

In a CJ1, this is not a practical restriction as the limited range of the aircraft dictates following the 'Blue Spruce' routes anyway. So, the only advantage of having MNPS approval is the ability to follow the 'Blue Spruce' routes at a reasonable flight level - BUT;

due to lack of radar coverage in southern Greenland, you probably won't get cleared above FL280 anyway because of the problems involved in descending/climbing through airliner traffic on the way into and out of BGBW.

Therefore, in a CJ1 (or other aircraft with range <1600nm) you don't really need MNPS approval. The only time this may be useful is on the leg from the UK/Scandinavia to Iceland, where you will have to descend to FL280 when you enter the Reykjavik (BIRD) FIR.

Yogibaboo If you PM me I can give you lots of useful info. I fly this route four times a year in a CJ1 and another four times a year in a CJ3. The CJ3 is easier because you can go direct BIRK-CYYR but the CJ1 is more fun (BGBW!)

Eckhard

[CJ Driver]

I've also done this quite a bit, and have looked into the benefits of getting MNPS approval on CJ class aircraft. Depending on the state of registration it will cost you time and money. For ferry flying, the time is the problem - it can take several weeks to get the approval, and no client wants to wait. If it is a UK aircraft the money is a factor too. You'll save a bit of fuel if you can get higher, as eckhard says, but it probably isn't worth it, even if you do it a couple of times a year.

[A and C]

My guess is that for the limited number of times you are crossing the pond you would be better off using the Blue Spruce routes Via Iceland & Greenland.

[Yogibaboo]

With CJ1 I have to use Blue Spruse routes anyway but when I want to fly above FL280 I need to be MNPS approved.

[YAK PILOT]

You do not need MNPS approval to fly above MNPS airspace. If you can reach FL420 or above then you can climb or descend through MNPS - known as special dispensation for aircraft not approved for MNPS.

As previously stated this would still be a problem it ATC coverage is limited.

Icelandic AIP 1.8.3.26 (http://www.caa.is/media/PDF/ENR.pdf)

OR
http://www.worldairops.com/NAT/docs/NAT_NAT%20Doc%20007%20-%20NAT%20MNPS%202010_10DEC10_atWorldAirOps.com.pdf

section 1.5

[Yogibaboo]

I know that. I ferried Citation XLS+ at FL430, above MNPS. Unfortunately max. operating altitude of CJ1 is 41 000 ft :{

[CJ Driver]

Well, console yourself with the fact that the CJ1 goes quite a bit faster at 28,000 than it does at 41,000, together with the fact that on a warm day in the North Atlantic you might never even get to 41,000.

In fact the only real downsides are (1) higher fuel burn than you are used to - check your planning :uhoh: and (2) it feels a bit unnatural to level off at 28k for such a long trip. In my experience it is (2) that gets to me. On a long trip we normally spend more time climbing and descending, and less time cruising. In the North Atlantic you get to 28k pretty quickly, and then get bored about 5 minutes later...

[Alan Marvin]

Hi eckhard,

could you please PM me, I have some questions about the blue spruce route on a cj2+.

Thank you

[space-shuttle-driver]

Alan, looks like you are not able yet to receive PMs. If Eckhard does not reply, I could help you too with anything North Atlantic (and probably hundreds of others here).

[eckhard]

Hi Alan,

I tried to send you a pm but got this:

Alan Marvin has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove Alan Marvin from the recipient list and send the message again.

?
Eckhard

[imriozer]

Hi Yoggi,

I've beed to the NBAA last month and saw there a company who claims they can get one time or time limited RVSM/MNPS LOAs in a week or so.
I'll look for the brochure and let you know.

what''s your email?

Imri

[eckhard]

Hi Alan Marvin,

Just tried again to send you a PM but you still are unable to receive them.

Why don't you PM me with your email address (assuming you are able to send)?

If not, maybe someone can tell us how you can 'upgrade' to be PM able?

Happy new year,

Eckhard

[Alan Marvin]

Hi Eckhard,

I've just enable the email, so now you should be able to send one.

I would appreciate if you do, I got few questions about it.

Best
Alan