Complaints to the CAA

[AlexanderH]

Has anyone here ever directly complained to the CAA for any reason whatsoever and if so what action was taken by them? Bit of a vague question I know but I thought I would ask on the wanabee forum as most of the complaints seem to come from upcoming pilots.

Of course I am in no doubt that problems with the CAA remain even after fully qualifying.

From my experience so far the majority of complaints surround the exorbitant exam fees and slow admin process.

[zondaracer]

Well I am sure that giant atrium at Gatwick wasn't cheap to build, and the CAA employees get a subsidized price on the lunch fare upstairs.

In seriousness, it is ridiculously expensive. I would be willing to change my country of license issue I it saves me a substantial amount of money and is just as efficient or better.

[AlexanderH]

My own issues with them were the time taken to mark the atpl exams. To add to this the CAA then decided that the time needed to book an exam in advance was to be increased to (I think) 15 working days meaning that booking an exam for the following month was simply impossible. No reason was given for this and as usual we just accept it.

I think my issue here is that pilots love to rant and complain about the CAA but nothing is ever done to query the authority's actions.

I know were are all happy once the exams are completed and behind us but we should at last question the CAA motives instead directly instead of just accepting them and being bent over the table every time.

[justmaybe]

The CAA is a bloated organisation with a a number of departments apparently unfit for purpose. Whilst charged with making a profit (and keeping lots of unnecessary people in unnecessary jobs) its customer focus is exceptionally poor, and its proceeses and procedures are simply awful. Making complaints are of no consequence to the Authority. Value for money? I think not. I have had two serious complaints, each of which were only resolved with the threat of legal action. Almost as bad as the Irish CAA. Dealing with the US FAA in comparison is like a breath of fresh air.

[rmcb]

The CAA run a bloated bureaucratic monopoloy. They therefore have no reason to conduct business to the best of their ability in the interests of and to the satisfaction of their clients.

The only realistic advice is to take your custom elsewhere.

Oh, you can't.

Time for change!

[AlexanderH]

Would anybody care to list their grievances against the CAA on this thread?

It doesn't necessarily need to be about atpl exams. It can be whatever you care to write.

My obvious ones are cost of exams, time taken to correct exams and costs of licence issuing. Also the CAA doesn't break down the costs for us which they should do if asked.

[bluearrow]

Thread creep but i've found the CAA to be excellent. Yes they are slow but they have efficiently helped me when i needed it.

:)

[Warrior2]

About a year ago now, I posted my application for a Rating Inclusion from the USA to the CAA.

3 Weeks later, multiple staff at the CAA told me that they did not receive my application and logbook. Due to the fact that I had posted from USPS in the States, I did not know which company the parcel arrived into the UK on.

Eventually after days of research on my behalf, I got in touch with the Royal Mail office in Crawley that delivered the parcel. The officer at Royal Mail told me that the post officer in question had been delivering mail to the CAA for over 5 years, and would not make a mistake.

I also managed to get a name of the person who signed for the package, and after the 10th conversation I had with the CAA, She told me once more they did not receive the package. When I quoted the name of the person who signed for it, she put me on hold for about 10 minutes, and came back in a nice bubbly voice, apologising ever so much. It had been misplaced in a cupboard!

They were very helpfull after that and waived the fee for the addition of the rating.

[rmcb]

Warrior2's post sums up the organisation perfectly. There seems to be a lack of initiative on the part of individuals at all levels.

Instead of just putting down the 'phone, questions should be asked within the setup - 'why is this person saying he/she sent us something via usps? I know - let me just 'phone the mail room...'. Maybe they did, but it doesn't sound like someone got back to him/her to say what they've done.

Little things like that show, whether true or not, the fee is justified - that they actually care. You cannot bleat the mantra of providing a service when it seems that you don't; perception is all.

That delay could have cost Warrior2 a job. Only he/she knows.

[AlexanderH]

Does anyone else care to add to these?

What I would really like to do is to find out if people would be willing to put that complaint in writing along with a list of signatures and see if the CAA would answer or at least try to resolve these issues.

From all the people I have spoken to so far that would be a pretty long list of signatures.

[VJW]

Having worked in the exact department you are complaining about for 4 years, I can see both sides of the coin. Lots of complaints come about perhaps due to a lack of understanding of what actually goes on in the office there.

Regarding your query, I can tell you it takes a 'minimum' of 10 working days to get your exams marked, as quoted on the website etc.

If you or ANY one person queries a question, then it'll go for a review, and ALL exams will have to wait until the query is resolved. Sometimes there are 2 correct answers to a question etc etc. So imagine, there are 50 questions that people query up and down the country on every single exam, these all need to be resolved and credits allocated accordingly before the results go out.

Part of the reason their database has problems still- is that questions come and go all the time from the database, and different countries write different exams- so there is a lot of 'loss in translation' that goes on..

Not sure if this helps, and it's an unofficial viewpoint. If anyone has any problems in the future and wants another unofficial explanation close enough to the truth feel free to ask me.

If you think UK CAA is expensive then try the IAA.... 360 euro for a licence issue and 221 euro for a rating issue :D

[AlexanderH]

That is exactly one of the main problems people have with the current exam marking system - it simply takes too long.

For the amount of money that the exams cost, why on earth can the CAA not adopt the system that is in place in other European countries where you get your results in a matter of minutes and they can be done on a terminal???? It is an absolute scandal that the cost for exams is so high with such a poor service and the CAA simply do not give a toss.

For the amount of money spent on exams the CAA should be able to put unambiguous questions and answers in the question bank and the correct answers for that matter. There would be no need for an appeal process if the questions where properly checked before going to print instead of simply including them time and time again in an exam.

[The500man]

In this day and age it would be so easy to have the exams conducted on a computer and for you to get an instant mark. Why the CAA have to dither about with paperwork and allocated seating and all the rest of it is beyond me.

I was also not too impressed to sit an exam that was near impossible to complete and then when everyone failed it, I was told it had been annulled. Obviously this was three weeks later, becuase the CAA do everything at a snails pace. I've been given a free resit which will count as a first time sittting but I haven't been told how to apply for it. No doubt they will reject my application form if I send it in without payment.

The CAA is not cost efficient, or efficient in any way, but pilots on the whole seem to be of the smile-while-kicked-in-the-balls personality type, and that explains alot in aviation.

[VJW]

Totally agree. This was something they were looking at years ago. I'm sure the CAA is pretty skint too, lots of people have left over the years, including me, and haven't been replaced. So manpower is at a low. The initial marking system is actually a fast process, the stick your answer sheet in like a lottery ticket and put pops the results. The reason it takes that long to get results out is not because someone hand marks every single applicants answer sheet, the manpower is low in their offices now more then ever so the job takes longer, as they use these staff to do other jobs at other times.

Feel free to complain to them, it'll only delay your results further getting a reply n

I wouldn't worry too much about the results, there's no abundance of pilot jobs out there anyway :)

[BigGrecian]

Start an E-Petition HM Government e-petitions (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/)

Or Find your local MP (Member of Parliament) : Directgov - Do it online (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_4018047)

Seems like the only reasonable thing you can do against a government ran organisation.

[rmcb]

I wouldn't worry too much about the results, there's no abundance of pilot jobs out there anyway

While I appreciate you say this in jest, I believe that it sums up the attitude espoused by the institution.

Whether or not the operatives are told this, a service is being paid for - it is not unreasonable to expect stops to be pulled out in order to get queries resolved. Imaginative solutions should be offered - lacking in the OP's case - he/she had to do all the legwork.

Even if it isn't the answer you require, to be shown the [I]courtesy of effort would take, I am sure, the heat out of 90% of complaints. It's as if no thought is given that probably >=75% of applicants with problems are newcomers; questions that may seem daft are par for the course.

Perception is all.

Post edit - BigGrecian has a point, but the government aren't interested - 'private matter... agency... not civil service...' and the like.

[VJW]

My comment was said in jest. As my first reply stated, I see both sides of the coin.

Part of my reply was based on both CAA knowledge and now real world knowledge....

[Jwscud]

The quite frankly outrageous flight test fee. Having enquired first hand of an examiner how much they get, it's in the order of £250. So where the hell does the other £500 or so go? It beggars belief to put it mildly...

[AlexanderH]

An e-petition is maybe something to be considered down the line.
I think firstly a draft should be written out explaining all grievances and issues and to have each pilot who agrees to this to add their name and signature to the list.
From all the people I have spoken to about this or who have raised various issues this number must be in the vast hundreds at least.

The500man is correct, pilots on the whole do seem to be of the smile-while-kicked-in-the-balls personality types and that is the exact reason why I satrted this thread to see if something for once could be done about it rather than just moaning and ignoring the issue.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to just forget about it and say "oh well" but that isn't right either.

Regarding the scheme of charges, no breakdown is ever explained at to where this cost goes. The other day I happened to overhear one of the CPL examiners on the phone to one of his colleagues and the conversation went a little something like this,

"I don't know if we can justify increasing out charges yet again for practical exams as they are already pretty high, however, I don't see any other option if the CAA are prepared to increase their admin fees again".

I have to say given the amount of times I have heard complaints against the CAA for one reason or another I was suprised that this thread has had a modestly succesful turnout in comments but not the figure I was hoping for. Since it is so lacklustre here I don't see much point in creating a petition against the CAA unless pilots are prepared to get of their backsides and actually raise a point in this issue. So please if you have some kind of complaint whatever it is can you please note it on this thread.

[rmcb]

An e-petition is maybe something to be considered down the line

A worthy idea, but can you get hold of 100,000 signatures? The chances are you'd have to go to the non flying populace. I can guarantee that you will find little sympathy out there - most believe pilots are nothing more than overpaid bus drivers, with no thought to how they are trained and how the training ensures their safety on the way to Tenerife.

As for the efficacy of e-petitions, just look at the reaction of our current legislators to the call for Babar Ahmad's trial petition yesterday. They are as full of piss and wind as the previous bunch of low life.

Despite my condemnation of the CAA, the parts that deal with other aspects of regulation seem to do a good job. It is just a shame that I am forced to wait to discover this due to the inefficiency of the Licencing department. Let's face it - this is the unglamorous - but essential - side of regulation. I just wish they'd do it with a bit more gumption, grace and understanding. We have just spent the better part of a small house in Liverpool and we bother them with aggrannoying bits of paper and books with dates and times? Shocking. Oh - and that will be yet more wedge for a ****e service. Not even a please!

They enforce the law passed by our elected toerags, but are not accountable to us, even via our MPs. They are not civil service - thanks to Nu Liebour - and they don't have competition to keep them on their toes.

As far as complaints go, who knows where those go? I suggest we all just avail our testicles to their toecaps, scrunch our eyes closed and await the blows caprice and whimsy might land on us. It's all we can do.

[imsh33]

Hi all,

There is a new effort underway to make changes and improve the CAA.

A website, CAA-complaints.co.uk has been set up and is collecting information on customer complaints to be forwarded to the government in order to facilitate some much needed improvements to the organisation.

The most obvious of which is that the CAA does not even have its own complaints department or procedure. However the website covers anything from Pilot complaints to engineers, FTOs and internal staff complaints.

Feel free to take a look and post your experiences.