A320 ELAC 1 and 2 Failure upon eng. shut down

[wojnar82]

Hi,

Did any one of you ever experience a ELAC 1 and 2 failure when shutting down the engines? After reseting the hydr. systems fault went away. not to reproduce on grd. A/C dispatched same thing happed again next flight.


Weird?

[flame_bringer]

On one of our old 320s (One that has been around since early 90s) Sometimes I get them together with Both FACs failing due to the power interruption if I don't switch them off prior to transferring the power from the external power to the APU.
And the fault never clears even if I depower then repower the aircraft, So what I do is I pull out B11 A01 A02 R20 wait for 5 minutes and then rerack it then reset them and the fault clears, its quite irritating especially when the crew start calling us for it right before departure.
I'm guessing It's due to the computer ageing and hence the quality of it's power supply circuit plumets down but we have not tried changing the computers because it's an intermittent fault.
I believe you're dealing with an old aircraft and this happens due to the
engine generators to APU power transfer.
Otherwise If resetting the hydraulics only fixes the problem then I'm assuming that there is something wrong with the high pressure manifold pressure switches (switches are sticky or something) such that when the hydraulic power is transfered from the EDPs to the PTU and yellow electric pump then that results in the problem.
Thats off the top of my head.
Have you tried replacing both ELACS and the pressure switches?

[wojnar82]

Hi Flame,

Thx for answering, we replaced yesterday the ELAC 2 and Blue pressure switches 1151GN and 10CE1 this helped. Actually its a new A/C 1 year old.

Can I contact you via email?

[flame_bringer]

yea certainly, pm me for that.

[MATMAX]

Bravo Flame , not bad...
But i am always suggesting to replace parts , one by one , think that you will understand why...
So now , with this thread , you have learnt that not only old aircrafts can be problematic ... you are improving yourself ...

[flame_bringer]

Hi matmax
When I said both ELACS and the pressure switchs I meant one at a time certainly I wouldn't replace all at once otherwise I wouldn't be able to find out what has gone wrong.
Given what I had noticed recently out of our new fleet, Enhanced 320s can be more of a pain than the old ones. :p

[R6DXB]

and why don't you simply stick to the available TSM / SIL / OIT etc ?
That tinker / bricoler thing is more than unprofessional and asking for help on a forum in order to fix and sign off an aircraft as well !:ugh::ugh:

[wojnar82]

thing is that there is no SIL nor TSM task for ELAC 1 and 2 Failures with no faults on the P/B. So Airtac didn't help much?!

[MATMAX]

wojnar82,
Let me explain you how , few years ago , we were troubleshooting , like on A/C who were not having any CMCs or whatever... :
get the schematics and wirings , understand how the whole system is working and think step by step ... if you do not know how to do it ... ask to a real old B2 to help you ...
OK man ?

[flame_bringer]

R6DXB
Not every snag has a solution in the TSM or SILs or TFUs..etc in fact around 90% of the snags we've been trouble shooting lately we were unable to find any useful information about them in the TSM.
Asking in a forum to seek out help from people in the forum who have experienced the same problem is a good choise and a good utilization of the forum provisions rather than wasting his time replying to nonsense threads.

[R6DXB]

well, than you might find SIL 27-165 Rev OCT 2011 interesting to read.
Good luck.

[Wirelock]

it never ceases to amaze me the so called experts we have working on aircraft these days.
you are looking on a forum for information on a fault that the OEM does not have any knowledge about.
the a320 is flying 20 years. airtac know their stuff.
i think as maybe the answer from airtac was negative you failed to use the TSM properly as this would be the first reply from airtac.
there is more than enough information available through SILs TFUs and the TSM to easy solve this issue. i suggest you explore them.
and flame bringer for a person of 22years old you are an accident waiting to happen. learn how to use the manual and also try to understand how the aircraft works. it is clear neither you or the people that are working with you have no idea how to use the manuals.
learn how to fix problems not how to reset them.
and lastly never dispatch an aircraft with a no dispatch message unless you have fixed the problem. otherwise you might kill people!

[MATMAX]

Guys , take it easy as both of you are right...
Follow the AMM , etc , of course but personnaly , i do not see where there is a problem to use his brain , knowledge and common sense...
Flame , i would say that you are on the right way to become what i call a good Engineer and maybe an MCC Engineer , but be careful , think twice before acting as you are still young and stay modest ...
Happy troubleshooting !

[MATMAX]

Strange that my post came between the one from Wirelock and the one from Flame ...
Anyway , Wirelock , mi amigo, no tengo nada en contra de usted ...

[flame_bringer]

Wirelock
How have you constructively served the the OP with your useless response, It wouldn't have made a difference whether you replied or not, May I please see the SIL that you're talking about that addresses the problem? copy paste for me the part that addresses it please, you're just blowing your own trumpets by putting people down, If you think you're a manuals expert then show me the reference to your claims from the TSM.
But apparently all you're ever good at is giving big talks and a know it all attitude and seamingly you're the one that has to redo his basics and learn how the aircraft works, Unforturnately people like you are the accidents that are about to happen.
With this flippant manner of yours towards others you won't get any one to think that you're an outstanding engineer like you think you're just putting yoursef down instead.
I really do feel sorry for your co-workers that have to put up with your incompetence on a daily basis.
Good day

[Wirelock]

TSM TASK 27-93-00-810-954
there is a note

NOTE: On the upper ECAM display unit, the ELAC2 FAULT warning came into view and went out of view after a few seconds during the engine stop phase.

it is identical for ELAC 1
why dont you look it up!

so flame bringer, without the benefit of a PFR or a crew briefing or the aircraft i was able to find a solution in the TSM.

as for your FAC problem, it sounds like a relay or contactor problem. airplanes get old but poor maintenance and lack of knowledge is the real reason why your aircraft is flying with dual FAC problems.

in fact around 90% of the snags we've been trouble shooting lately we were unable to find any useful information about them in the TSM

seriously when you write things like this, it is clear that you have no idea what you are doing.
can you give me some examples?

[flame_bringer]

''NOTE: On the upper ECAM display unit (http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6826205&noquote=1#), the ELAC2 FAULT warning came into view and went out of view after a few seconds during the engine stop phase. ''
Ok you're right this is actually the correct fault isolation procedure and TBH I haven't searched the TSM because I was assuming that the OP has done that already, However that does not disprove my theory that the TSM is not always right.
'
''as for your FAC problem, it sounds like a relay or contactor problem. airplanes get old but poor maintenance and lack of knowledge is the real reason why your aircraft is flying with dual FAC problems.
'''
It is not flying with dual FAC problem in view we make sure to clear it by resetting the computer then we dispatch it and it happens once in a while it's not a hard fault and no it's not a contactor problem the same problem happens on the SECs aswell and ELACs hows it a contactor when it happens on completely diffrent computers aswell yet having the exact problem there is no common contactor.
''seriously when you write things like this, it is clear that you have no idea what you are doing.
can you give me some examples?
''
no smoking and fasten seat belt lights are defective on 8 seats, TSM says check the related DEU As, director,PISAs and wiring.
All was done and it hasnt cleared the fault, In the end the CAM card on the FAP was found defective.
HOT air high press fault comes on when the any of the zones tempreture is increased.
TSM says it could be the hot air pressure regulating valve or the pressure switch both were replaced and it hasnt fixed the fault, All three trim air valves were assumed to be blocked and were replaced and the fault cleared.
Loop A smoke DET fault message was there PFR was faulting a lavatory smoke detector TSM says replace the faulty smoke detector based on the PFR or the system test or check the wiring.
Both done nil help, After isolating the whole loop smoke detectors one by one (which was n ot mentioned in the TSM) it turned out that a cargo smoke detector was causing this which contradicts with what the PFR and the TSM says.
cockpit loud speakers make a wierd clicking noise, no mention in the TSM whatsoever.
When isolating the systems connected to the loudspeaker I found the weather radar transciever making the same noise and niether the PFR nor the ECAM were faulting it, weather radar transciever replaced and the fault cleared.
One toilet was not flushing PFR was faulting the FCU, TSM says replace the FCU if the PFR is faulting it or check it's wiring, both done nothing found in the end a vacuum line found cracked.
And many other stories.
bottom line is things can always fall outside the TSM box and brain engagement is nessesary sometimes.