Pilot locked in toilet causes accidental terror scare

[DISCOKID]

At least the helpful passenger didn't get arrested or taken down by an air marshall :)


Pilot locked in lavatory causes unnecessary terror scare - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/flight_scared_tless_NCATGVoOq9V6WgWjVwszRJ)

[blind pew]

Co-pilot thought it was a terrorist attack as passenger helping captain spoke with a heavy foreign accent - guess it could have been British english:ugh:

[JW411]

My best toilet door story involved an ex-RAF friend of mine who came out of the RAF and joined Laker Airways on the DC-10 about one month before I did.

We did our training sectors on (relatively) short sectors down to southern Europe and the Near East.

At this stage of the exercise, I have to explain that we had a wonderful training department and the training captains were excellent. However, there is always one. He was an ex-noncom RAF pilot who did not take prisoners and expected perfection.

So my friend is scheduled to do his very first sector on the DC-10 from UK to Spain. Naturally, he turned up super-early to get ahead of the game and all was going really well as far as he could determine until he realised not long before top of drop that he needed a pee.

He simply could not last until touch down so he asked "Sir" if he could go back for what our American friends call "a comfort break".

"Do you have to? Bloody hell! We are nearly there. Can't you hang on?"

Well, he had to go back and just outside the flight deck door were the two forward lavs. At each door was a queue of passengers.

So, my mate said, "Sorry about this but I am going to have to pull rank for I am needed up front".

The ladies in the queue were happy to let him in and my friend did his best to empty his bladder as quickly as possible. While he was in mid-stream, so to speak, he heard the throttles coming back. My God, we have passed TOD and I am in the loo thought he. This will not go down well with Sir.

He came out of the loo, thanked the ladies in the queue and then tried to get back into the flight deck.

Now I have to explain that up to this point the Company had spent an absolute fortune teaching all of us in the AA academy at DFW every single little detail of how a DC-10 worked. But no one had actually bothered to tell us how the doorhandle into the flight deck worked.

So, my mate, having thanked the ladies in the loo-queue, tried to get back into his office. Now, prior to 9/11, the door handle was fixed and all you had to do was to give it a tug and pull (a ball-joint).

My mate tried turning it to the right, he tried turning it to the left and finally in desperation gave the door a bloody great tug and pulled.

At this point, he went arse over tit backwards and ended up in the laps of three elderly ladies in the front row who stroked his hair and said something along the lines of "Never mind son"!

I think it would be fair to say that he did not feel at his best when he finally got back in his office.

Moving on; some years later I ended up working for an American Part 121 operator based at JFK. The FAA had introduced a locked flight door policy to prevent hi-jacking. At that time, the biggest threat was a Cuban with a can of petrol.

So, we got an ex-Laker DC-10 and I was commissioned by my boss to get some flight deck door keys. Unbelieveably, I found an original key in the flight engineer's drawer.

I took it down to Manhattan and found a "key shop".

"I want 36 of these" said I.

He was a bit reticent but, when I explained the problem, he happily made me 36 keys.

So the pilots, the flight engineers and the senior, back in the cabin were duly issued with a key.

It didn't take long.

A couple of weeks later, my flight engineer went back to the loo and forgot to take his key with him. Eventually, he decided to try his DC-8 key. Not only did that work but his B707 and B727 keys also worked!

I would have to say that the United States of America were completely unprepared for 9/11.

[EEngr]

The captain (stuck in the loo) should have requested that the 'helpful passenger' locate one of the flight attendants to approach the cockpit and inform the co-pilot of the predicament. Heavy accent* or not, giving any passenger a security password isn't terribly smart. Someone could jam the toilet door and pretend to be a good Samaritan. Now, he's only got one person on the flight deck left to deal with.

* I just heard this story on the local news, courtesy of a local radio morning talk show (The Bob Rivers Show with Bob Spike and Joe (http://www.bobrivers.com)). Spike O'Neill's talent with 'foreign accents' practically had me ROTFLMAO with his possible interpretations of this incident.

[Bearcat]

did the F/O not contact the FA and see what was going on outside re the foreign accent before pulling the pin on the grenade with atc?

[BobnSpike]

Your worst humiliation is nothing more than someone else's momentary entertainment.:ok:

Embraer 145's have only one flight attendant. When one pilot leaves the flight deck, the flight attendant is required (FAA) to enter the cockpit and remain there until the crewmember returns. This is to ensure there is someone to open the cockpit door if the remaining pilot is incapacitated.

So the captain was trapped in the lav and the FO and FA were on the opposite side of the fortress door knowing only that he was missing and someone else was pounding on the door and shouting.

Good move on the part of the FO keeping the flight deck locked. Bad move on the part of the CA divulging divulging security procedures which are now in the press.

[sunset_contrails_10]

interesting problem...worst case scenario..what would the captain do? If the door has to stay and the FA can't come out, then FO and FA have to declare an emergency and land soon as practical.

Maybe we need to come up with a stuck in the bathroom code and have a passenger just slide the note under the door. LOL:O

[lomapaseo]

The terrorists have won yet another round

[ross_M]

Bad move on the part of the CA divulging divulging security procedures which are now in the press.

Which parts? I didn't see any disclosure of information that I already didn't knew as SLF.

[infrequentflyer789]

Bad move on the part of the CA divulging divulging security procedures which are now in the press.

Don't worry, they deliberately didn't divulge the part where the FA gets all the SLF to turn round and face the back so they can't see the security procedure in progress...

Oops...

[AOB9]

A perfect example of how "modern world" procedures can turn a seemingly minor incident into something newsworthy. The only solution is to bring an empty cola bottle in the flight bag.:O

[Burger Thing]

Great Story, JW411 :)

Seriously, pearls like this makes me enjoy my morning coffee even more for a great start into the day :ok:

[Bond'll Do]

Hasn't anyone told the new 'Nigels' how to open a lavvy door??? Duuhh...it's not rocket science Miss Moneypenny!

:ugh:

[FERetd]

1."He was an ex-noncom RAF pilot....."

JW414, how frightfully awful having to fly with an ex-noncom RAF pilot. Please do not tell me that the DC10 Flight Enginer was also an ex noncom RAF Flight Engineer, I just couldn't bear it!!

How one has to adjust when one leaves "the club".

2. "I would have to say that the United States of America were completely unprepared for 9/11."

Not like this country was for 7/7.

[goldfish85]

JW-411,

When I started with a US carrier back in 1966, we were all issued cockpit keys. We were told they were the same for all carriers. I tried mine on a few other carriers and they all worked. The story was that in the 1930s, these keys would open the doors of the buildings at emergency airports along the major routes.


Goldfish

[Fly26]

Really enjoyed reading that.....:ok:I can relate to those flightdeck times you want the world to swallow you up! ....and its usually at the most inconvenient time...:)

[Shell Management]

Was he cleared to Epsom from Monday to Saturday?

[raraa]

All I cared about was why the F/O was doing 180 kts at 10'000

lol!

[G-FATTY]

The Captain at the end of the recording..."There is no issue, no threat!!"

The F.O's imagination ran wild!

[sunset_contrails_10]

If I was the Captain, I certainly would have been embarrassed but the First Officer probably did exactly as he should have done.

[26er]

Talking of keys, as you were, in the late fifties at Chivenor the Sycamore SAR helos of 275 Sqn had an AA box key in the cockpit so they could telephone for help!

n.b. for all you youngsters, the Automobile Association had dedicated roadside telephone boxes for distressed members of the Association, who were also issued with a key on joining. There was one of these boxes on the highest point of the road from Braunton to Ilfracombe.

[ShotOne]

What were the cabin crew doing while this pantomime unfolded? And why didn't the F/O call them before initiating WW3 with ATC? It's not as if the helpful passenger was about to have gained access to the flt deck.

[RobertS975]

I believe that this was a 50 pax ERJ with a single FA who apparently was in the cockpit when the pilot left for the lav.

[glofish]

This mediocre play of dumb safety procedures and dumber security measures reminds me of the medieval knights who tried to protect themselves with heavy armor, to the point they could hardly move, notwithstanding fight anymore.
:ugh:

[Tankengine]

I would have thought it was way more important to have the single flight attendant in the cabin to supervise pax than to sit on pilot's knee!:ugh::rolleyes:

[Sky Slug]

I would have thought it was way more important to have the single flight attendant in the cabin to supervise pax than to sit on pilot's knee!

Uhhh, not quite. Flight attendants have a specific position to stand or sit in the cockpit while we are using the restroom. In today's world of reinforced cockpit doors it's crucial that there is another member of the crew in the cockpit at all times while a CA/FO is in the lav.

[grounded27]

You buy them books, you send them to school and.....

[Oakape]

Flight attendants have a specific position to stand or sit in the cockpit while we are using the restroom. In today's world of reinforced cockpit doors it's crucial that there is another member of the crew in the cockpit at all times while a CA/FO is in the lav.

I know of a number of airlines where this is not done.

[Gordomac]

Great post. I do concur with Burger Thing. Fabbo start to my day too. Gees; Laker 10's. I was on the first course of DE, non type rated for BAC 1-11. Non coms still got a chip, I see. Nevermind. Oh, but, back to thread. Last company, after 9-11, invented a very complex toilet procedure. Only one Check Capt stuck to the procedure because he wanted to demonstrate. On a L/C , he told me that he needed a comfy break but asked me to listen in to the correct procedure. Called up the CA looking after us and said...." R1c ?" 'Yes Captain',...."I wish to go to the toilet". I heard her drop the phone & I giggled, quite a lot .

[aterpster]

Tankengine:

I would have thought it was way more important to have the single flight attendant in the cabin to supervise pax than to sit on pilot's knee!:ugh::rolleyes:

I think that would depend whether she was a real looker and also quite amorous. :ok: ;)

[mat777]

Best one I've heard was one flight (I forget which airline, plane etc) where one of the Pilots went for a lav break, and whilst he was gone the second pilot went to request a drink from an FA... being shortly post 9/11 the latter pilot had forgotten about the self-locking cockpit door, and both of them had to break it down to regain access to the flight deck

[stepwilk]

I know of a number of airlines where this is not done.

My understanding is that if an air-transport aircraft has a single F/A--i.e. a 50-passemger Embraer--that one F/A needs to be in the cockpit whenever there's only one flight crew at the controls, in order to open the cockpit door for the second flight crewperson in case the first has, say, a heart attack.

[Letayou]

Stepwilk is correct, at least for the aircraft in question, a Delta Connection flight. I worked as an FA on 50-seaters until very recently, and that is the protocol.

[Oakape]

My understanding is that if an air-transport aircraft has a single F/A--i.e. a 50-passemger Embraer--that one F/A needs to be in the cockpit whenever there's only one flight crew at the controls, in order to open the cockpit door for the second flight crewperson in case the first has, say, a heart attack.

How does the number of F/A's make any difference here? If you have only two pilots, regardless of the number of F/A's, you will have an issue if the remaining pilot is incapacitated when the other leaves the flight deck. Most aircraft are operated by only 2 pilots these days & no airline I have worked for on 2 crew aircraft has a requirement for a F/A to be in the flight deck when one of the pilots leaves for any reason.

[Sky Slug]

I know of a number of airlines where this is not done.

In my previous gig with a regional, the flight attendant was instructed to stand between the door and the flying pilot. Of course, with small items like that, it was rarely adhered to the "letter-of-the-law." Besides on the flight deck of the CRJ-200, you're within inches of everything.

[Dream Land]

How does the number of F/A's make any difference here? If you have only two pilots, regardless of the number of F/A's, you will have an issue if the remaining pilot is incapacitated when the other leaves the flight deck. Most aircraft are operated by only 2 pilots these days & no airline I have worked for on 2 crew aircraft has a requirement for a F/A to be in the flight deck when one of the pilots leaves for any reason. I think you need to check around, all outfits I have worked for since 9/11 have had this SOP, I thing it began mainly due to the fact that cameras were not yet being used.

[wiggy]

no airline I have worked for on 2 crew aircraft has a requirement for a F/A to be in the flight deck when one of the pilots leaves for any reason.

The requirement certainly does exist in some airlines in some circumstances.

[Traffic]

This sounds on a par with the Monty Python skit from Japan about 2 years ago on a domestic 734 flight where some old biddy failed to exit a kazee at TOD.

Out of the cockpit appeared the F/O armed with the crash axe. Whilst trying to turn the door into scrap he managed to cause his arm some damage with said axe....

Removable hinge pins are pretty standard but unknown to most of the youngsters who now inhabit the sharp end of a/c :sad:

[Tankengine]

It is not the case with my own airline.:hmm:

As I said - it is crap, way more important for a single flight attendant to supervise pax [what if they are loitering near door or lav? the F/A may never be able to leave the cockpit!]:ugh:

The rule is BS!:rolleyes:


aterpster, that goes without saying!:E

[Dg800]

How does the number of F/A's make any difference here?I think the point was that if there is a single F/A and if he/she is required to be on the cockpit side of the door while one pilot is taking a break, then there will be no F/A on the passenger side able to assist said pilot in the lav... Everybody please take their mind out of the gutter right now, thank you. :hmm:

[Escape Path]

If the F/O was so scared about the "thick accent" chap from the other side of the door and he really wanted to be sure that what he was being told was true, he should have just said to the aforementioned chap to "ask the captain what my name is!" :E That should clear it up!

This is just rubbish, talk about blowing things out of proportion. "Foreign accent" my arse... :ugh:

[stepwilk]

Obviously the F/O was concerned, since the captain had failed to return to the cockpit and somebody with a strange accent was asking for access to the cockpit, that perhaps somebody had a utility knife to the captain's jugular. That could well have elicited the F/O's name, rank, serial number, SSN, name of first-born and pretty much anything else needed.

Don't know what your arse has to do with it, nor has anybody claimed that the F/O was "so scared"--he seemed to be pretty cool in his R/Ts--and it seems to me his reaction was neither "rubbish" nor "out of proportion."

[bubbers44]

Any pilot that would let the cockpit door be opened without proper procedures is an idiot. The FO did everything by the book and did a good job. I am proud of him for using his ability to handle an unusual situation well and not breaking cockpit security. We can't let those A holes do another 9-11. Stick to procedure, no short cuts.

[before landing check list]

Strongly concur with 42 and 43. The FO did it right.

[Lemain]

This is just rubbish, talk about blowing things out of proportion. "Foreign accent" my arse... :ugh:You've spotlighted an important point, of course. It seems that the most dangerous terrorists are 'regular' citizens who have been indoctrinated in terrorist 'schools' overseas -- do they call it 'radicalised'? So the biggest threat is probably not the fellow who speaks with an accent or struggles with the language, old bean ;)

And your average terrorist isn't likely to make some inane joke about a bomb so by handing over such 'offenders' to the Old Bill and banning them from flying for life all you do is to stop one of your customers from spending with you....not so smart.

[thepotato232]

To the gent commenting that the FA in the cockpit is not standard procedure, please note the items "USA" and "post-9/11". Adjust all expectations of normalcy accordingly.

To those who continue to suggest the captain should have alerted a flight attendant, please note the number of FAs abord an ERJ145.

To all others: You are the only pilot in the cockpit of an airliner. The captain has left for a bathroom break quite some time ago, and has not been heard from since. Suddenly, a passenger begins knocking on the secure cockpit door, shouting (with or without an accent) that the captain is "stuck" outside, and he wants you to open the door. You have no way of verifying this information save the password, which is UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES supposed to be given to a passenger. If your solution to the dillema is anything other than "declare an emergency and land", congratulations! You've just violated the basic tenets of American cockpit security. If you're lucky, you will be summarily sacked from your airline. If unlucky, you've just blundered your way into the next terrorist attack. Kudos.

[jackharr]

Lovely story Jock.

We once had an old woman collapse against the inward opening door. We might need the fire brigade after landing. I radioed:

"Don't know quite how to word this without sounding flippant. We have an Old Lady locked in the lavatory"

"Roger, you're cleared to hold from Monday to Saturday".

Jack

[HAWK21M]

The FO did the right thing.....
Why not 2 FAs on the type.......

[BobnSpike]

US Federal Aviation Regulations:

Sec. 121.391 — Flight attendants.

(a) Each certificate holder shall provide at least the following flight attendants on each passenger-carrying airplane used:

(1) For airplanes having a maximum payload capacity of more than 7,500 pounds and having a seating capacity of more than 9 but less than 51 passengers—one flight attendant.
(2) For airplanes having a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less and having a seating capacity of more than 19 but less than 51 passengers—one flight attendant.
(3) For airplanes having a seating capacity of more than 50 but less than 101 passengers—two flight attendants.
(4) For airplanes having a seating capacity of more than 100 passengers—two flight attendants plus one additional flight attendant for each unit (or part of a unit) of 50 passenger seats above a seating capacity of 100 passengers.