Questions about getting RPL/PPL

[Anteara]

Hi all, first of all, I'm very sorry if there is a thread already about this, I searched, couldn't find anything that answered my question.

Second of all I'm in Australia and i know that you wont be able to give me exactly the answer I want if you're not from here and dont know the rules etc, it's okay.


Just for some context,

I'm living in Australia, however I am Canadian and have dual citizenship, I'm 17, in my last grade of high school. Working towards RPL but not yet PPL.
I'm a flight student with 10 hours experience in an Aeroprakt A22LS (known in Australia as the 'Foxbat'). I've been getting ready to do my first solo the past few lessons, anyway,
I want to become a pilot as a career, my degree will hopefully be in computer science, I would like to join the air force however I consider that a dream job that I probably won't get, so I would be perfectly happy working the next 10+ years trying to get in the left seat of a great airline.

Here's a little more context, there are three flight schools in my town,
Two teach Australian students to get their RPL (neither can teach for PPL but all instructors have their ATPL).
One teaches students from Papua New Guinea to get their CPL. They don't train Australians (not sure why).

I'm not really sure if I'm interpreting what my instructor told me correctly, I had a brief conversation with him tonight during the 10 minute break in our ground school lesson, and he told me that It is possible to work on getting a PPL despite his flight school not being certified for it, he said I won't be able to get flying time in, but the RPL and PPL exams are relatively the same, and he said that I could take the PPL exam as opposed to the RPL exam and it would still count towards my RPL and also it would get it out of the way for my PPL. Is this true or did I misinterpret what he said? I know you guys will probably tell me to ask him, but I would rather a concise, detailed written answer as it would allow me to make a copy of it for future reference if I need to look back to it. If I don't get the answer I'm looking for here I will ask him, I don't want you guys to think that I'm lazy, I just want your opinions.

So to ask the real question,


1) Honestly, do you think I'm wasting my time? Keep in mind that I'm 17, still in high school, receive money from the government that I use towards my training, still living with my parents and am pretty dependent, can't move to a city until situations change to pursue my dreams of getting an PPL, then eventually CPL and ATPL.

2) Would I be able to do my PPL exams, not the RPL exams, and have it still qualify for my RPL exams?

3) Would my flying time towards my RPL count towards my PPL (I haven't started going towards PPL yet, haven't even signed up, only signed up for Recreational Aviation Australia).

I know you guys won't be able to answer my question with complete accuracy considering you don't know the situations, so I'll accept a generalized answer and I am actually generalizing while writing this too.

Thank you for reading and I'm sorry for the wall of text.

[Gomrath]

Moved to DG&P in the hope that you folks can assist in this question.

[RV6]

Anteara - when you say 'RPL', are you referring to the RAAus pilot certificate? As you are training in a Foxbat I assume so. If you are working towards an ATPL I think doing the CASA PPL exams now would make sense. Get the theory out of the way while you can, then look towards flying training in a VH registered aircraft in the future.

Cheers
RV6

[Old Akro]

I agree that I'd get the PPL exams out of the way. In fact, you might consider knocking off some CPL subjects.

I doubt that the airlines will consider your foxbat time counts for anything. But the real question is what your CPL school will make of it. I'd be tempted to ring a couple of the major flight schools at whatever your closest major airport is and ask the questions of the CFI. I would hope / expect that they will be pleased to help and you'll get a good, genuine answer.

At the end of the day remember that flying is flying and doing as much as you can in a variety of things is good. If there are private light aircraft owners at the airfield, get to know them and hitch some rides too. Keep at it.

[Ultralights]

my initial thought he was referring to the Restricted PPL. what existed before the GFPT.

[baswell]

Every single flying hour in that Foxbat counts towards your PPL.

Once you have a full Recreational license with cross country endorsement, you can go to a GA school and work on your PPL. All that is required is to tick the boxes not ticked by the RA training: 2 hours instrument and controlled airspace, plus getting used to the new aircraft of course. Say 10 hours total on top at the most. And the theory exam.

Remember what I said here and don't let some dodgy GA school tell you otherwise and make you get an SPL, do GFPT, all the navs, etc. It's a known trick and it's bull; they just want your money. Find one that won't rip you off.

Once you get to the stage of getting your first flying job, those first 30-40 hours done in RA won't matter to your new boss.

Then once you build a 1000 hours there, they'll matter even less to the airline recruiter.

[glenb]

Think carefully. It may well be the best option but it has a price. In Australia we have two different CPLs. The 150 hour course and the 200 hour course. That flying will force you over onto the 200 hour course(with 50 extra hours and GST applied), possibly an extra $15,000.

Hours done outside of the 150 hour syllabus cannot be counted towards it.

Plus, if you sit the PPL theory exam before having commenced the navigation training component that will also render you unsuitable for the 150 hour CPL.

[baswell]

How many people complete the 150 hour course in 150 hours? (Real question, I honestly don't know.)

Would flying just RA-Aus now, not doing any GA stuff (which might preclude you from 150 hour course) and then going on the 150 hour course be OK?

You be flying NOW and even though they make you go through everything again in the course, would that increase your chances of actually finishing the 150 hours course in 150 hours?

[Anteara]

How many people complete the 150 hour course in 150 hours? (Real question, I honestly don't know.)


I'd like to know the answer to that too. My instructor told me today that the 150 hour course is something that a flying school might do as a full time course, whereas the 200 hour course is something that you can do over many years.

I think I would probably try to get my PPL by the end of next year and then my CPL (and if possible ATPL) by the end of university, probably 2016, assuming I don't have a gap year.

So I will definitely be able to get the money to get my PPL by the end of next year, but how realistic is the idea of getting a CPL before the end of a 4 year university course? Over 4 years, how much would you expect getting a CPL would cost from already having a PPL? I know that overall it costs about $100,000, I'm just not sure of the specifics.

Also, if anyone could answer this question, must one have an ATPL to sit in the right seat or be a flight engineer of a regional airline (not even sure if they would still have that), or do you need an ATPL even when you're not PIC?

Thanks.

[Lasiorhinus]

I'd like to know the answer to that too. My instructor told me today that the 150 hour course is something that a flying school might do as a full time course, whereas the 200 hour course is something that you can do over many years.


You can do either as full time, or either as a long, drawn-out thing. But if you do take many years to do it, you are very unlikely to get the CPL issued in 150 hours.

The main "advantage" of the 150 hour course is not getting it done in 150 hours, because I have never met a student who did - but it is in getting the license with only 70 hours PIC, instead of 100.

In practise, 70 hours PIC is not enough to get a commercial job - for the often-forgotten reason that insurance companies do not like sub-100 hour pilots flying expensive machines on charter.


but how realistic is the idea of getting a CPL before the end of a 4 year university course?

Very realistic.

Over 4 years, how much would you expect getting a CPL would cost from already having a PPL?

Multiply the private hire rate of their aircraft by the number of hours you need to make up 100 PIC. Also add a few hours dual getting yourself up to speed for the CPL test.
Also, you need to do the exams, which all cost around about $150 each - theres seven of them, more if you fail and need to repeat. Textbooks are about $80 per subject, or you could pay more and go to Lionel Taylor or Bob Tait for groundschool.

I know that overall it costs about $100,000, I'm just not sure of the specifics. Sounds like you need to look at better flying schools! $100k for a CPL is rip-off territory.

Also, if anyone could answer this question, must one have an ATPL to sit in the right seat or be a flight engineer of a regional airline (not even sure if they would still have that), or do you need an ATPL even when you're not PIC?
According to the regulations, no, the ATPL is only required to be pilot in command of those aircraft.
In the real world however, an employer will usually require that you do indeed have the ATPL or will be eligible for it (ie, subjects done) before they will consider employing you.

[Anteara]

Sounds like you need to look at better flying schools! $100k for a CPL is rip-off territory.

Unfortunately that's not an option as of present, I actually go to the cheapest of them all in my area... $150 for an hour in the foxbat with the instructor, the other school does $190 for an hour in a jabiru with an instructor. from what i've researched I think $150 an hour is an alright hourly rate for what I'm doing, would you disagree or agree?

I've decided that I probably will want to do the PPL exams, instead of taking the RPL (RA-Aus) exams, as it would get them out of the way for both rpl and ppl (correct me if im wrong), and also my flying time in the foxbat would count towards the ppl hours, excluding the checkride? (Also correct me if im wrong please).