South Korean pilot faker on the run

[doctorklosee]

Trouble in the sky
Last updated: 11/11/2011 8:20

Accusations and denials as Vietnam Airlines co-pilot suspected of using bogus certification
http://www.thanhniennews.com/2010/Picture/111-11W/VNairlines.jpg
Passengers alight from a Vietnam Airlines plane at the Tan Son Nhat International Airport in Ho Chi Minh City. The national flag carrier is trying to verify if it recruited a South Korean pilot with bogus flight records.
The Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam (CAAV) has requested its Indonesian counterpart to verify information regarding a South Korean pilot suspected of using bogus flight records.
“However, we are yet to receive any feedback,” Lai Xuan Thanh, CAAV’s deputy director, told a press conference organized by the Transport Ministry on November 8.
The case involves South Korean Kim Tae Hun, 36, a co-pilot with national flag carrier Vietnam Airlines (VNA) who left his job without notice in August this year.
Speculation over Hun using fake documentation had arisen several months ago following his piloting of a VNA Airbus 320 aircraft while landing at the Gimhae International Airport in South Korea.
According to a statement by CAAV on November 3, Hun was the co-pilot and after the unsuccessful landing attempt, the Vietnamese pilot in command, Vuong Van My, took over the task and the airplane landed safely.
The flight, VN970, had departed Ho Chi Minh City on April 25 and arrived in Busan a day later with 154 passengers onboard.
Following the incident, several South Korean newspapers reported that Hun actually had just one hour of experience in flying Airbus A320 but had falsely declared that he had 680 hours when applying to work for VNA.
VNA has requested the pilots on the flight to resubmit their documents on flight experience. Hun said he would have to return to Indonesia to ask for required verification from a carrier that he used to work for earlier but has not returned to Vietnam since August, CAAV said.
Thanh said CAAV was yet to find any signs of fraud in Hun’s documents but it would be an “extremely serious” case and the pilot could face criminal charges if he had indeed submitted bogus papers.
More accusations

RELATED CONTENT
VNA recruitment under scrutiny after pilot found using unqualified license (http://www.thanhniennews.com/2010/Pages/20111105-Vietnam-Airlines-pilot-recruitment-to-be-inspected.aspx)
While the case is under investigation and CAAV awaits verification from Indonesia, Thanh Nien Weekly received an email accusing Hun of deceitfully declaring his flight experience from a man claiming to be Hun’s ex-colleague.
Sent from the address of Kwansoo Seo, the email said that the sender had worked with [Indonesia’s] Batavia Air at the same time as Kim Tae Hun.
Seo enclosed three documents that he said would “help understand what he (Hun) did.”
According to a crew flight log file attached in the email, Hun has never piloted an Airbus at Batavia Air between October 18, 2009 and March 14, 2010. Another file is what appears to be a certification from Batavia Air that mentions Kim Tae Hun as an employee with license number ATPL 6585 and says he “performed a total of 680:00 hours flight time on A320 Fleet aircraft from November 28, 2009... until June 30, 2010.”
The third document is a clarification (1034/MB-DIR/VI/2010) issued by Batavia Air that says, among other things, that “Kim Tae Hun has never been our pilot – even as a freelance pilot.” It also said: “Kim Tae Hun has never signed an employment contract with Batavia. We have already sent the notice to Kim Tae Hun that Batavia will not let him fly any Batavia aircraft as a Batavia pilot starting from June 11, 2010.”
Seo said the documentation he has attached showed that Hun could have not had any Airbus time. He called for an immediate, thorough investigation of the case.
The letter also alleged “another big crime” by Hun, saying he had entered a carrier in Laos with “another falsely published license and flight experience.” Seo sought help to inform Laos about the fraud “to stop him.”
Thanh Nien Weekly contacted Batavia Air and was told on Wednesday that the Indonesian airline had issued no flight experience certification for Hun.
“Batavia Air has never issued Letter of Recommendation about flight experience certification for Kim Tae Hun with Total Time Second in Command on A320 = 680 hours flight time,” Elly Simanjuntak, PR Manager of Batavia Air, wrote in an email.
She said Hun was a Pilot Employment Recruitment/Pilot Recruitment Agency - on behalf of Sun Aviation Inc. - with license of FO on Boeing 737 Classic (less than 200 hours flight time). Batavia Air terminated the contract agreement with Sun Aviation Inc. on July 29, 2010, she said.
“Kim Tae Hun has got only one session of A320 simulator training and he never flew A320 fleet aircraft at Batavia Air,” she said.
At the press conference on November 8, Thanh, the Vietnamese aviation official, said that there is “possibility” that Hun’s documents are not real, but gave no further details.
“A pilot’s flight experience is among criteria for an airline to agree on payment. In terms of safety, it is a serious matter if a pilot lacks flight experience,” he said.
Thanh also confirmed that South Korean authorities have requested Vietnam Airlines to clarify Hun’s information relating to the April flight and other records relating to him, according to local media reports.
“According to VNA regulations, a co-pilot is allowed to control landing and the pilot in command is allowed to take back this control in case the landing can be unsafe,” he said.
Following the incident, CAAV launched an inspection of procedures to recruit foreign pilots at the national carrier on November 10.
CAAV vice chief inspector Dinh Van Cung said the two-week inspection will focus on compliance of these pilots with VNA’s criteria.
VNA has contracted about 150 foreign pilots. Thanh said the inspection would help avoid similar incidents at other carriers as well.

Thanh Nien News (The story can be found in the November 11th issue of our print edition, Thanh Nien Weekly)

[Cactus225]

I know this aint Face_book..

But I really wish there was a 'Like' option here..

Awesome! :}

[DesiPilot]

Those who work at the VNA know the real story, which runs deeper than what is written here.

[Molokai]

Pray, tell us the full story so that we all can help eradicate these scourge of fakers that tarnish our profession.

[captplaystation]

All I can say is :D :rolleyes: I have given my girlfriend my epaulettes & suggested she gets herself employed PDQ so I can spend the Winter sitting on my @ss, I should just about be able to summon up the energy to brief her on SOP's inbetween beers :cool: :ok:

Don't you just love H.R. depts & anal selection procedures/ group exercises etc

[ipohmali]

Heard from ex KAL boys, now in the sandpit, that there was a young Japanese chap who claimed to be ex Airbus factory pilot who conned KAL and became a B777 captain for a couple of years before he was outed by some Taiwanese chaps who pointed out to the koreans that he was only an F/O in Taiwan, never a captain before he went to KAL. He then did a runner!

There were also stories of South African cruise captains who duped KAL to become full fledged captains on the 744. However because senior KAL management was involved they had to let their appointments stand for fear of massive " loss of face " not forgetting the public outcry were they to fess up. Also a few aussie f/os from the '89 disputes went to the backwaters of Africa and the Middle - East for a couple of years and turned up as wide bodied airbus and B747 classic captains in KAL. Again they were protected by expat management pilots in KAL, and for fear of complications the KAL management just did nothing even though the KAL pilot union reported it.

I think as the Korean pilots venture out there will be more revelations.

[klmasdriver]

Firstly, any faker is worth the hunt and sanctioned for good. HOWEVER..

Following the incident, several South Korean newspapers reported that Hun actually had just one hour of experience in flying Airbus A320 but had falsely declared that he had 680 hours when applying to work for VNA.

Are you kidding me? NONE of SIM evaluation nor OE training picked this up?
I think VNA has a much bigger problem, unless someone is willing to shed more light to the true story?

[The Dominican]

Are you kidding me? NONE of SIM evaluation nor OE training picked this up?

I agree, one thing is to "bs" through an interview with some HR idiots and it is another to confront a sim or line instructor, those of you that have extensive experience giving line training know that one develops a good sense if somebody knows what they are doing just by the way they build their "nest" long before you even go flying you can tell, there has to be more to this story

[woodyspooney]

My guess is that this guy had flown in some capacity in some other aircraft and " mastered " the A320 flight sim procedures cook book style using all the CBT readily available. A few sim sessions with some A320 rating mills would have facilitated his passing through the earlier hoops during initial training and checks.

More than a decade ago, a Frenchman who had help through some quarters connected to Lauda Air claimed captaincy on the B777; he cleared through the sim satisfactorily but his command deficiency showed up eventually in line training. They suspended his training and made enquiries about his so called " B777 command experience " with some new DECs who left Lauda...they found that he was only a copilot, so his training was terminated. It was a clear cut case so it was the end of his masquerade in KAL. However there were many more who cleared through, not forgetting the " Swiss Air " Halfback ( sic )!

[Adrian Cronauer]

G'day lassies and gents. Another scandal at Air Vietnam and the only solution management comes up with is -- BLAME THE FOREIGNER PILOT. Following some careful inquiries one finds that the young Korean was recruited by an agency and not directly by the local cronies. The agency checked his qualifications. As those qualification were a little less than Air VN man would have liked, a special dispensation offer --reduced salary and a bit of cash in the VN Air man pocket -- for a wee time was extended as is so often the modus operandi at Air VN.

This brings us to a fortnight or so ago. We have the Korean lad flying as the PNF & F/O with a local Vietnamese hero as the PF & Captain into the south korean village of Busan, Pusan or whatever they choose to call the spot.

The crosswind at the time ever so slightly exceeded 5 kts which caused the local hero (captain my something) to lose control of the little airplane and go around. Some time later -- On another attempt he brings the airplane to a stop with a bit of a thump as the crosswind subsided a knot or two.

What was most annoying to the passengers--and the likey cause of the complaints -- was the captains excessive circling of the city and close up view of the surrounding terrain ("...Whoop Whoop there it is, Whoop Whoop there is is…") without taking advantage of the young Korean's ability narrate the tour. Terrible CRM I say. No announcements and a native Korean speaker just sitting there next to him, with nothing better to do.

Disaster averted. Whatever shall we do now? Well boys, chin up, stiff upper lip I say, just blame the bloody foreigner. Rummage around in the foreigners employee file, discover that he doesn't have the company required experience and forget the rest.

Could this hypothesis be wrong? Perhaps. If so, the only remaining excuse is that the Korean lad gained his qualification and experience in the same manner as his VN local captain -- the University of Nepotism and the Parker Air 320.

One thing for certain. It was a circling approach which company dictates must be done by captain. Tower instructed him to go around due heading towards terrain. Forgot to reduce from TOGA, Gear and flap over-speed warnings from airplane heard in tower…in C Class and in Yahoo class of airplane. "Vina SuperPilot Hero Captain saves the day" the headlines read.


just my several pence worth.

[Adrian Cronauer]

I am a native korean speaker who sat next that named kim.
As you mentioned,I did not say a word during that meeting.
You know why? I am one of pilots who knew what happened that circling approach. Confirms several postings in other forums. Kolean pilot no speaky good engrish.


Some parts of Your comment are not true. Only some?

Such as,captain was a PF. No,The truth is FO was a PF. No need follow SOP when Kolean and Local Hero fry airprane together.

That flight was not flying by pilots. Those two pilots are lucky the god saved them. :confused::confused::confused:


I am a native korean speaker who sat next that named kim...That FO talked to many pilots. I never hear someone refer to themselves as "that pilot':=

I thinky you full oh ****. I thinky you Air Vietnam Captain who phuk up flight vely, vely, bad. Now you want savey you face at expensy any foleign pirot cause you no mature enough be responsibly for own action. :eek:

[brasmelzuit]

Hey, Adrian, where's the post above your post?

Deleted by moderator?

[Adrian Cronauer]

I thinky you full oh ****. I thinky you Air Vietnam Captain who phuk up flight vely, vely, bad. Now you want savey you face at expensy any foleign pirot cause you no mature enough be responsibly for own action.

Likely deleted by the poster himself, the Air VN captain who chaulked up the approach and landing in Korea.

Apparently my summation regarding him was spot on!

[Icy Hot]

Another unfortunate out come of this whole "Korean disaster" was that all the remaining expat pilots at Batavia Air (approx 20) were either sacked or had no possibility of a contract renewal. The company owner's blanket bomb solution after losing faith in all foreign drivers after this incident.

[cameltoad]

Hey Cronauer,
This question has nothing to do with this post but you seem to have your head screwed on straight so I just wanted to ask on the 6 and 2 rotation what are the days off/on like? What I mean do they manage to fly you every damn day (like I did in the middle east) or is it a little more normal. I ask because they family wants to stay in Hong Kong until I can see what life in Hanoi would be like and would it be possible during the on rotation to run up there once or twice?
Any info would be great:ok:

[On Final]

Hello gentlemen, I remember a pilot trying to get hired in China, at Sichuan Airlines who faked his Captain and flight times....!

PatXXck FXXncis HaXXXrty is a fake....! This guy was flying a Private corporate jet who claimed to work at Spirit airlines as a captain. He claimed to have flown A319, A320 and A 321 with his last flight as a Captain at Spirit Airlines March 2010. I was asked if I knew him, NO, and what's funny is he never even worked at Spirit Airlines. He just bought a A320 type picked and airline, Spirit and figured he would come to China as a A320 Captain. BTW, we never had any 320's and he lied claiming to have 1000 hrs pic.

If this guy is working for your airline use caution.

VOR was the agent who set the interview up for PaXXick FXXncis HagXXrty and after I told the airline I didn't know him they asked him for more documents he disappeared and I don't know where he went.

Good Luck,

On Final

[Slasher]

Cronauer....you of all people should know yer average Kolean
thinks the captain is god - KAL's last great prang at Stansted
proved that QED (300kt into the deck almost upside down as
I recall). No Kolean FO worth his kimchi would speak up and
emballass his captain. All "death before dishonour" mate!

[USMCProbe]

All pilots SHOULD have to prove their credentials to carry a couple hundred passengers around.

Anybody got a guess about the percentage of fakers they have met in the expat pilot world?

[Slasher]

Haven't kept score over the years but I'd say roughly 9 -

4 Indians. Obvious shonks the lot of 'em. All got sprung during early LT.

1 Belgian (very arrogant FO pretending to be a capt. Drawn and quartered by the flight dept when he couldn't make a single decision when the tough non-B&W questions were let fly on his FLC)

1 Frog (very stupid FO thinking he'd slink through the hoops as a capt. Everyone knew he wasn't even a pilot's bootlace let alone a commander). Took the training dept a
full month to realise what everybody knew already). Thrown into the tumbril of instant dismissal and his temp licence guillotined.

1 Australian (a silly bloody nong of a 3000 hr FO and claimed 2000 were PIC. Caught when found out he'd only commanded Parker pens by his former boss).

1 Dutchman (see Belgian). Another one with many hours on 737 Parker pens.

1 Russki (ex Tupolev FO who did a 320 convert LHS in the US). Sent to the gulag during his final sim ride.

[captjns]

The due diligence starts with the contracting agency before forwarding the paperwork to the prospective airline of employment.

They should confirmation of employment from previous companies flown for. However a major problem is that many airlines that pilots claim to have worked for may have gone bust, thus no way to validate records. There may be an isolated instance where a manager of a bygone carrier has records stored on a computer some place. That however is a long shot.

The agency should obtain a PRIA records report from the pilots' country aviation agency to ensure the validity of the airman's certificate, and history of violations if any.

If hired and found to be a fraud, then the airline needs to notify their respective DGCA. Then the airlines' DGCA should be proactive in notifying the pilots' DGCA as validations are conditioned on a valid airman certificate from their native country.

[Iron Duke]

People who fabricate experience need the full force of the LAW thrown at them ..

They defile our profession, further erode our standing and make potential employers suspicious of the "bone fide" ....

It amazes me that they get away with it ... there is always someone who knows someone etc ... even if it is 3 times removed. Aviation is a small world ..

I.Duke

[JotaJota]

Darn Slasher... You've got a magnet for Parker Drivers? LOL

We had 1 at Deer, now BCA that could not pass IOE, and was even scary in the right seat. I think he was Indian.

CP and other bosses asked me if this was usual. I said no way. Took the Co. a month to fig out and canned him.

[mach 84]

This is the downfall of contract business, you come across a lot of people pretending, to be what they not are!

[Slasher]

Yes Jota - in a previous employ the training dept was always
the last to know the guy's log book was Parker-penned when
it was blindingly obvious even to the airport cat.

I always had my susses that these guys somehow did a deal
that was attractive to the Co - eg lower pay or reduced T&Cs
- and that the training department, while all the candidates
resumes and log books appearing to be in order, sorta "held
hope" that they'd make the grade. Only when the very hard
objective evidence was in did they finally give 'em the arse.

[On Final]

Hello World,

I posted his name for a reason and I know the facts. No personal vendetta, but when a pilot trys to falsify his credentials to get a job it is wrong. It lowers our credibility and guys like this should be named...!!! I want others to know his name in case he has faked it somewhere else. I would agree with you if i wasn't sure but this one I know the details.

Good Luck,

On Final

[On Final]

Nearly 200 commercial pilots faked experience, China says

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/3.0/1px.gif (javascript:cnnShowOverlay('cnnShareThisStory123');)http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/3.0/1px.gif (http://cnntweet.appspot.com/articles/http%3A%2F%2Fcnn.com%2F2010%2FWORLD%2Fasiapcf%2F09%2F09%2Fch ina.pilots.fake.records%2Findex.html%3Fhpt%3DT2/Nearly%20200%20commercial%20pilots%20faked%20experience%2C%2 0China%20says/tweet/)http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/3.0/1px.gif (http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-09/world/china.pilots.fake.records_1_commercial-pilots-crashes-in-six-years-aviation-officials?_s=PM:WORLD#)


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September 09, 2010|By the CNN Wire Staff
http://articles.cnn.com/images/pixel.gif
A Chinese airliner takes off from the Beijing International Capital airport. False flying records are common knowledge among Chinese pilots, China Daily reported.


Nearly 200 commercial pilots in China falsified their flying experience, Chinese aviation officials have discovered.
The announcement follows one of China's worst plane crashes in six years, and highlights the high demand for pilots as the country has seen a boon in air travel.
Aviation officials began investigating pilot qualifications after the Shanghai-based China Business News broke the story. Implicated pilots have had their licenses revoked or have been ordered to take extra training, according to state-run media.
The investigation of pilot qualifications is part of an overhaul of airline safety, the Civil Aviation Administration of China said, according to the state-run China Daily.


http://articles.cnn.com/images/pixel.gif





http://articles.cnn.com/images/pixel.gif
China had its worst commercial airline disaster in years in August. A Shenzhen Airlines flight crashed in northeastern China, killing 42 people and injuring 54. Officials have not announced the cause of the crash.
The country's travel industry has boomed in recent years, as its economy has surged and personal income has swelled.
False flying records are common knowledge among Chinese pilots, China Daily reported, quoting a pilot identified only by his last name, Xu.
"The rapid expansion of China's civil aviation requires more commercial pilots, and the gap was usually filled up by those pilots who drive military aircrafts, but transferred to commercial flights," he told China Daily.
"These pilots were very likely to falsify their flying history in the military, since it is hard to track and verify. By doing this, they can get promoted more quickly in flying commercial airplanes," he said.
"The airline companies only keep half an eye on this, since they are happy to see more pilots certified by the administrative agency," added Xu, a commercial pilot with three years' flying experience, according to China Daily.

[BayBong]

This is a bit off the topic, but if you want to live in Asia and in particular in VN, you must deal with corruption at all level of dayly life. Purchasing a PhD degree is as easy as buying a fake Rolex or fake Evian bottle of water. Same goes for a Pilot licence, you have to pay 10 000$ US more for the left seat compared to the right seat.

The international and local Vietnamese media cover pages and pages hinting about corruption in VAC with things like this :

" The “shortcomings” in contracting pilots were announced by the aviation authority after it completed an inspection of VNA from November 10 to December 1.

The inspection of the carrier’s recruitment methods had been launched after controversy erupted over its hiring of a South Korean pilot who had apparently forged documents about his experience in flying Airbus 320 aircraft.

The Korean pilot failed to make a smooth landing when he was the co-pilot for a Vietnam Airlines flight in Busan, South Korea, in April. The Vietnamese chief pilot then had to take over the plane and landed safely." (http://www.thanhniennews.com/2010/pages/20111217-vietnam-airlines-violating-rules-on-hiring-pilots.aspx)

Another one :

VietNamNet - Vietnam Airlines (http://english.vietnamnet.vn/en/society/16556/vietnam-airlines--former-pilot-uses-fake-papers.html)


Here again :
" Vietnam Airlines had breached its own regulations in recruiting foreign pilots, the Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam (CAAV) has found... CAAV inspected documents of 55 foreign pilots that VNA hired in 2010 and 2011 and found that their CVs do not comply with required form, while other documents had not been notarized and translated into Vietnamese as required... VNA directly contracted two foreign pilots in 2010 and 2011 – Huynh Ly Phuong Dong and Yong Suk Lee, but CAAV’s Quality Safety and Security Agency did not participate in assessing the pilot’s documents as required, inspectors found.
(Vietnam Airlines violating rules on hiring pilots - Vietnam news (http://www.vnnnews.net/vietnam-airlines-violating-rules-on-hiring-pilots))

Many more news papers, websites, linked this recruitment flaws as another signs of corruption, arguing that the training was performed by VAC. Airlines in Vietnam finding it difficult to recruit pilots despite high pay Vietnamese airlines struggling to recruit pilots - eTurboNews.com (http://www.eturbonews.com/26732/vietnamese-airlines-struggling-recruit-pilots)

VAC assured that they will review their recrutment and training procedures of about 140 pilots. One does not need to read between the line to catch that the recruitment of local pilots are better run and does not to be investigated ? A quick look in Vietnamese pilot files would reveal too much of their own corruption so that the official report on the investigation may be totally unreliable and loaded with lies.

How could he escape VN while suspected of forgery and potentially accused of criminel charges if his exit was not facilitated by some authorities ?

Does anybody know what were their conclusion main lines ?
Do they target expat pilots only or do they include locals as well ?
Did anybody got fired resulting from the investigation ?

Thanks +++, fly high.

BayBong.

[BayBong]

" Heard from ex KAL boys, now in the sandpit, that there was a young Japanese chap who claimed to be ex Airbus factory pilot who conned KAL and became a B777 captain for a couple of years before he was outed by some Taiwanese chaps who pointed out to the koreans that he was only an F/O in Taiwan, never a captain before he went to KAL. He then did a runner!

There were also stories of South African cruise captains who duped KAL to become full fledged captains on the 744. However because senior KAL management was involved they had to let their appointments stand for fear of massive " loss of face " not forgetting the public outcry were they to fess up. Also a few aussie f/os from the '89 disputes went to the backwaters of Africa and the Middle - East for a couple of years and turned up as wide bodied airbus and B747 classic captains in KAL. Again they were protected by expat management pilots in KAL, and for fear of complications the KAL management just did nothing even though the KAL pilot union reported it."

Ipo, This old post is still very pertinent to the present, keep going ! KAL expat management acts in totally opposite direction to VAC' attitude for similar issues. Both aim at "saving face" : while KAL put it under the carpet and protected its pilots, VAC puts expat pilots - and only expat pilots - on the spotlight as doctorklosee reported on the Korean faked pilot on 11/11/11.

VAC could not save it's face anymore.

I guess if the con pilots got promoted to captains and fulfilled the expectations for a number of years, their performance during those years must have been OK ?

Who could tell us about what was the results of VAC self-examination and the CAAV final report ? Knowing that both reports would be as faked as the Korean pilot, I am intrigued ! Thanks.

[B777-200ER]

Knowing how VNA "operates" I would think that this story needs a little more than just face value acceptance of a fake pilot? As someone mentioned in a post above, the viet "captains" (loosely termed) will not accept responsibility for their own actions and are on the look out to "blame" anyone and everyone for their lack of competence/qualification etc. when the weather is bad or if things look like they might be "difficult" these Heros call in sick every time.
If anyone is holding a "fake" or dubious licence, I would be looking first at the Vietnamese card carrying communists and all round back slapping mates club?

[Maisk Rotum]

There are a lot of Koreans pretending to be pilots. As long as they are twiddling with the heading knob and making extra 'standard callouts' it makes them look good.

[EX BLUE STORK]

Hi Bay Bong.
If you new what actually happened at Pusan on this flight you might refrain from writing garbage.
Your facts are totally incorrrect and if you would like to know the truth maybe pm me.

[BayBong]

Hi Stork, I only cut & paste from Vietnamese news paper publishing in English, and other international news on the web. Did not invent anything.

What was so offensive in what I wrote ?

[PappyJ]

Knowing how VNA "operates" I would think that this story needs a little more than just face value acceptance of a fake pilot? As someone mentioned in a post above, the viet "captains" (loosely termed) will not accept responsibility for their own actions and are on the look out to "blame" anyone and everyone for their lack of competence/qualification etc. when the weather is bad or if things look like they might be "difficult" these Heros call in sick every time.
If anyone is holding a "fake" or dubious licence, I would be looking first at the Vietnamese card carrying communists and all round back slapping mates club?

100% true. Just ask the latest expat to be suspended for refusing to fly with substandard Viet "captain" who have unsafe reputation. :rolleyes:

[de facto]

. Fakers could make it through sim

Says a lot about the sim checks.....

[AdamFrisch]

Then there was that Swede 737 captain that had flown for over 13 years, 10.000hrs and aced all sim rides until the paperwork finally caught up with him. He had a PPL only. But by all accounts he was a very good pilot and his colleagues only had good things to say about him...

Talk about learning on the job!:ok:

[Dream Land]

No, what's really is sad is that 90% of the people commenting on this thread have completely missed the real point to this thread.

Has nothing to do with Korean pilot, funny. :ugh::ugh:

[B777-200ER]

Yes, that was my point too! Lots of fingers being pointed around at the moment with the latest incident I'm sure? I wonder what it could of been? Wrong type of rain? Runway in the wrong place? Substandard tyre rubber? Brakes faulty? Flight plan not having detailed enough instructions on how to actually land the plane on it??? Runway not notifying the capt that it was ending?
Hmmm? I wonder if it could of been the card carrying imposter on the flight deck???? Nah? Better rule that one out?

[jolihokistix]

On my last flight over the captain could not even say the arrival time in English properly. Twice I heard him gabble and fake it. :ugh:

The standard of English language of KE pilots has grown worse and worse over the 30 years I have flown with them, and now the SK govt is discussing cutting back on English teaching in schools.

The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - Gov't to Cut Down on English Teaching in Schools (http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2015/09/01/2015090101149.html)

[billabongbill]

On my last flight over the captain could not even say the arrival time in English properly. Twice I heard him gabble and fake it.

The standard of English language of KE pilots has grown worse and worse over the 30 years I have flown with them, and now the SK govt is discussing cutting back on English teaching in schools.

The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - Gov't to Cut Down on English Teaching in Schools


Their English is so bad that you think they murder the English language? Well their ever supreme and wise chairman cho deemed that English PA was so difficult for the Korean pilots that he embarked on a 5 year project, hiring NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKING ENGLISH TEACHERS, to remedy the problem. Instead of improving their English skills, they went the opposite way! They scoured the dictionaries and lexicons to find the SIMPLEST ENGLISH WORDS THAT THE KOREAN PILOTS COULD PRONOUNCE without causing murder, and incorporated them in the PA so that the PA would sound " nice "! So it was nursery school level English for you.

Foreign pilots are also forced to use this same nursery school English level scripted PA religiously to avoid making Korean pilots look incompetent. The chairman claimed that Korean passengers complained about differences in contents of Korean language PAs with any non-scripted English PAs made by foreign pilots. That made the Koreans feel inferior.

The strange thing is that they are also very hesitant and seemingly incompetent in their own Korean language! I was in the cockpit for the landing in one case when we were instructed to go around and hold over a fix because of a disabled aircraft on the runway. In the holding, the Korean captain struggled trying to find the correct scripted PA; he couldn't find one in the Captain's PA booklet, became very flustered and almost lost the plot snapping at the F/O ( who also couldn't find the proper PA )...I told him just to make a simple impromptu Korean PA in simple Korean everyday language! He just couldn't or wouldn't !!! Making any English PA in that situation is out of the question.

I had to calm him down, saying that I would take care of the PA together with the purser...they ( the skipper and f/o ) just concentrate getting us safely on the ground in one piece. The purser managed to come up with some suitable Korean PA modified from a page in his PA booklet whilst I just made a simple English PA off the cuff.

I heard that shortly after that, they came up with policy whereby the captain delegates most of the PA involving unusual events to the purser who has a booklet covering most expected delays, etc. By then I was already out of that cuckoo's nest!:ok:

[jolihokistix]

I get a sense of what you are saying, Bill, each and every time my grammar senses are grated with the identical set phrase: "Fasten your seatbelts due to turbulence!"