Cathay Cadet Programme Application Thread

[bangout]

After various attempts for the old thread to be led away from what was becoming a rather persistent, but important financial topic, I felt it necessary to 'start afresh' here.

All should read and consider the downfalls of the cadet programme. The finacial/lifetyle/future employment considerations have been covered in great detail (http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour-wannabes/378978-cathay-pacific-cadet-pilot-programme-177.html#post6809288)

However, as a potential iCadet I now feel that the above thread has become somewhat redundant in terms of preparing for the selection process. I'm sure all potential iCadets would appreciate it if we could have an environment in which application advice is offered and discussed.

So consider this my (quite possibly) feeble attempt at bringing things back on track and raise your comments and queries relating to this controversial programme here.

I tried my best!

[Sue Ridgepipe]

You've gotta hand it to the Apple marketing gurus, they really have brainwashed the youinger generation into thinking the whole world revolves around Apple products - iPhone, iPad iTunes etc...
I wonder if they'll be queing to be an iCadet like they did for the recent phone release.

[Brafton]

Agreed.

Lets commence with the sharing of information related to the cadet pilot programme and joining. Interview tips, schedules, training advice, etc. Let the helpful sharing of information commence.

[ground to air]

I knew DB would'nt be able to help himself...

But great idea, anew thread is in order. Anyone with info or stories of their experience in their stage 2 would be greatly read by many.

[FloRider]

Anyone going for the Dec 8 Initial interview in Auckland?

[illustrator]

I'm an applicant from HK.

FYI, my application was submitted online in July, and received a phone call in October, notifying me the first round interview in November. As you can see, the process of application was of extremely low efficiency, and patience is required. Yet after the first interview, it took CX only 4 days to call me into the second round which was scheduled in December. The HR personnel said the second round, ICAO English assessment, takes two week of grading. So I have to spend the Christmas in deep anxiety.

As far as I know, the third round will be a busy day including group project, social lunch and technical assessment. Sounds quite scary.

[schweizer2]

Illustrator,

Could I ask which of the 3 programmes you are applying for?

I have a Stage 1 interview in HK this coming week.

[illustrator]

Hey congrats!

I applied for the ab initio one.
Do you live in HK?

[schweizer2]

Yes, and check PM I have sent you a message :)

[boxerpilot]

Essentially the main HR and Technical interviews are as what has been posted.

The books that would definitely help are How to Fly the Big Jets, Ace the Technical Pilot interviews.

For historic background : Beyond Lions Rock, Syd's Pirates and the 49'ers are good for you to read to be informed from all angles.

The main CX website as well as Flight Dailies provide information that you would need.

Essentially a sound knowledge on Aerodynamics, Meteorology of HK, Performance and an overall awareness of the T&Cs the SO gets on the scheme would be important.

HR's interview is very focused on how you are gonna survive on the package and if you are commuting how you will manage fatigue. It will be an issue to show how well you have factored in financial planning to tide over the entire SO/JFO phase. i.e. Mortgages in home country, expenses etc. Be prepared for that as the focus has shifted from being able to assimilate in HK to being able to survive and not end up with a divorce or the likes.

They would want to meet your spouse at the tea reception. To get a sensing of the support you are gonna get during training. All being said and done, the previous threads have provided lots of useful information and go in with your eyes open.

In my situation, I come from Singapore, there are NO expatriate salaries anymore with SIA and there are no DESO schemes except through the CADET program which is 2 years long and cost of living here is higher than HK. So the the iCADET option is naturally attractive to me as opposed to guys from UK and OZ whom had predecessors on 'A' and 'B' salary scales.

[CharlieTangoZulu]

i've applied for the cadet program a couple of weeks ago, in case i'll be contacted by the HR, will i get a phone call or an email? i'm a bit afraid a screwed up the phone number in the application, matter of country code and city code...

[boxerpilot]

Well,

Guys have survived on less than that in Singapore. The budget setups are a lot lesser than CX with Tigerairways, JetstarAsia and even the regionals like Silkair and new upstart Scoot. But essentially, having lived in Oz and US for several years, you WILL NOT be able to replicate the lifestyle, home floor areas, SUVs that you are used to until at least you are a SFO if you have a family of more than 3. However, I can only say this as I have interviewed and seen the T&Cs. Like most guys have highlighted, its a personal choice and make your own informed decisions. The salary scales are there and comparisons against all other carriers as well as employment opportunities are also not that easy to come across.

[PCLCREW]

Dan Buster...

im sorry because you must work at CX and have to babysit on every flight... from the looks of the kids jumping on the chance to be a flight attendent in the cockpit. Then they walk around the streets of Kowloon near their 1 bedroom slum telling girls they are a cathay pilot.

[bangout]

Just to clarify gents, this thread is for discussion related to application advice, you know where the bashing thread is.

Please have the maturity not to respond with: "I have some advice: Don't apply!"

[ChinaBeached]

So it's OK to write a multitude of words praising an ill informed & ignorant opinion of the "career" (what a joke) this CPP has lowered but don't dare speak out against it? And if you do use only a few words....

Comment, opinionate & discuss issues but don't take the advice of present day CX pilots or those with widebody international airline experience or those with first hand CX interview experience..... This iCadet package does NOTHING to improve the industry. It LOWERS the standards & remuneration.

How proud you must be.

[bangout]

Look, I'm not going to bite. The old/other thread was serving well for your particular brand of advice.

If a cadet is stupid enough to not fully research the package on offer then they deserve all they get. But for me, I consider myself switched on enough to balance up the pros and cons. If you want to PM me and discuss my background you are more than welcome.

This thread is for application/interview/testing advice, and it would be great if we could have a thread that wasn't diluted with comments made several times elsewhere.

Please afford us at least that gents.

[BerksFlyer]

Has anyone updated their application recently? The site hasn't been allowing that facility for quite some time.

[ChinaBeached]

Bangout:
This thread is for application/interview/testing advice, and it would be great if we could have a thread that wasn't diluted with comments made several times elsewhere.

And yet Berksflyer:
Has anyone updated their application recently? The site hasn't been allowing that facility for quite some time.

If these children are so "passionate" to not bother to read the other threads or even call CX directly then repeating the same advice and opinions about what this CPP really is is even more than warranted. It's a pure greedy chase for money despite already record breaking profits by lowering the standards of pilot applicants. There is no denying that.

So some over repetitive mind numbing ignorant questions, comments or opinions may be asked but not others?

Banged... If you truly have researched this CPP as you say and still wish to go ahead with it then that really makes it worse. You (therefore?) know what this CPP does to the terms & conditions of pilots at CX and the industry as a whole, and if it were not for experienced and qualified pilots refusing the offer then the current breed would not be able to apply. Facts.

In this "me first and screw the consequences" attitude of the current generation of pilot, the signs are all there for this downward spiral to continue. In fact, it is precisely what management need to succeed in their chase for money at the expense of standards, morals and integrity: greedy and a "me first" attitude at the expense of anyone and everything else now and in the future.

[bangout]

BerksFlyer,

The influx of Mil guys has of late made the civvie application process somewhat slow. They seem to be doing (understandably) well in the application process and are absorbing many of the slots currently available. I have a few such friends.

I wouldn't concern yourself too much with your application form just yet. Referral to the thread linked at the top of the page may be of use. It will, however, be quite a search through the text.

All the very best.

[ChinaBeached]

So Banged, you seem to have ruffled a few feathers on the other thread by your dogged determination to only listen to what you want to hear, and not the over whelming majority of those who call your reasoning, desires and actions into question. They challenge them based on experience and knowledge, so you dismiss them because they do not fit into the cocoon you deem needed to justify your selfish needs. Me first, screw the rest or what my actions contribute to, eh?

What's most interesting is the following quote from VFE whom I have swapped numerous posts with when he was also vilifying the virtues of the CX CPP. And after his own experience he writes:
Take it from people who have been around in aviation a bit longer and trust them. I can usually gauge situations and people rather well and after attending two interviews at CX can honestly state that the impression given here by a vociferous minority is just the thin end of the wedge. In aviation, your gut feelings are something you learn if and when to rely upon. What do your gut feelings tell you about this scheme given what you read here on PPRuNe? Never have I before seen so much hostility surround a particular topic. Can over two years worth of postings on this matter ALL be the malicious, rancid and vindictive hot air of a bunch of devious, cynical old salts who wish nothing more than to stop enthusiastic youngsters from entering their chosen career? I know PPRuNe has gone down a rather negative alley in recent years but.... c'mon, most of us know how to sift out the wheat from the chaff here - even a hefty pinch of salt still leaves an awful lot of bad air. In short: there HAS to be some validity to the hostility evidenced here, wouldn't you say?

And may I ask..... Do you believe the CPP contributes to aviation in general or detracts from it? By lowering recruitment standards as well as T's & C's does the CPP represent higher levels of safety, standards and professionalism or lower? Lastly, are you one who watches the news and sees the greedy immoral behaviour of so many in the corporate world that has lead to the collapse of so many economies and companies and put people out of homes and see it in disgust, or do you actively turn a blind eye, stick your finger up at those affected by the shear greed and support it? Because that is PRECISELY what you are doing via this CPP. You admit you KNOW what you are doing and completely believe it is a good thing. You discredit all the first hand experience and knowledge given and hold on to your own selfish notions that are needed to satisfy your reasoning.

So, the CPP Application Process: DON'T DO IT.

[mtc]

Since when is it the job of pilots around the world to refuse taking this crappy job to make it better? Where has the AOA been during all of this? The onus should be on the current employees to fight for better COS. Hmm that sounds vaguely familiar...

Sorry bangout for the off topic. But really work on making it better from the inside instead of this "hold out it will get better bs."

Another note... I'm still confused at how I will be "surviving" for my entire 30 year career at Cathay. Will I be an SO making my measly 35K HKD a month forever? Is it wrong to expect normal career progression? Whether it takes 15 years to command or what?

[Jim-J]

As a civvie pilot I applied in August, got an e-mail invitation to the Stage 1 'party' in early October. Interviewed November, e-mail confirmation for the second interview invite came 10 days thereafter.

This second interview happens only in March (at best) 2012. Loooong process.

As per BANGOUT's post it seems this is due to the backlog of the RAF or similar Mil pilots interviews.

[ChinaBeached]

The pilots on the inside ARE saying, screaming, yelling DO NOT DO IT. As for the AOA, my opinion has been voiced on a separate thread.

Management: "Here's a sh!t sandwich. Trust us, you're the greatest!!"
Experienced (CX) pilots: "Don't eat it. We're trying warn you, it's a sh!t sandwich."
Wannabe: "Wow! A really and truly and for real sh!t sandwich from 'Cathay Pacific'??! I'll bet / hope the 4th & 5th bite make it taste better! After all, when have they ever been immoral, lied or torn up legally binding contracts? What would these experienced pilots know anyway....."

You ARE the voice. We all tell you the facts, truths & histories but it's you wannabes who have the real voice & power. It just takes a tiny showing of a backbone.

We all say pilots are their own worst enemy, & so many are lining up to lower this profession further. One day, and it will happen, you'll be screwed over by another pilot or airline management and have the audacity to feel insulted.

[SV_741_India_Bravo]

I have a question regarding the Cadet Pilot program.

In the flying experience form, there are two fields, one 'dual' and one 'solo'.

Please confirm, should we write PIC (P1) hours in 'solo' or just the hours when we are the sole occupants of the aircraft.

Thank you.

[kelevra]

I've been reading the past threads and pages of the CX Cadet programme and now and then there are the discouragements for joining the programme.

I'm still a bit unclear about why, is it the package when joining CX as a cadet/second officer and living in HK, and by joining cadets and S/O's are supporting this package? What is it about the package? Also, by the sound of it, it seems most of the discouragements are from expats.

What is the alternative, where else to join and fly?

[average-punter]

I think the main reason is that the pay is just so different. Before, when you joined as a DESO you got a housing allowance which now, effectively, you don't get. Although you do get an allowance, I believe it is taxed. I see you are in HK and I guess have lived there all your life? If so the housing may not really be a problem for you. But for expats it will be, with a family the package is insufficient. I live in the UK, my house is certainly not the biggest house in the UK with a couple of bedrooms, dining room, lounge and kitchen it is a mansion compared to the housing that you will be able to afford on the salary of an SO. Believe me I really want to fly! But on this package it would be incredibly difficult to enjoy my lifestyle, or to match the lifestyle that I'm used to... looking ahead it would be unsustainable with a wife and family etc... I would prefer to fund my training and get a job here, you can be in the left hand seat of a 737 or A320 in 6 years here in the UK and you will also have hours that count. Although with careful planning I believe you could survive on the CX package in HK, but as a professional pilot I would not expect just to 'get by'...

[kelevra]

Thanks. That makes it much more understandable from where people are coming with the discouragements.

No disrespect at all but a friend and I were talking about the posts here on the forums and both living in HK, we assumed most were expats and were spoiled because of their lifestyle but then again he's a local and he doesn't know the culture shock when leaving a country for another, especially when you're a bit older (I came to HK at 2 years old, so I have somewhat of an idea now) and leaving for a lower paid job with a lower rank (correct?).

Looking ahead it does seems like, as an SO regardless of expat or domestic, you'll be "surviving" instead of "living" life... for a while.

Thanks again and good luck with future endeavours

[average-punter]

I don't know the demographics of the CX workforce.

No disrepect at all mate :) I can understand what you mean. I've lived in the UK all my life and used to this standard of living, certainly not rich or anything but I have a nice standard of living and wouldn't want to give it up, move to HK and 'just get by'. I got chatting with a British expat living in HK a while ago and he said the worst thing about it was the smog!

Thanks and good luck to you aswell :ok:

[illustrator]

Just received the third round interview. FYI the email is as below:


Dear Mr. X,

We wish to confirm you that your Stage 2 interview for the Second Officer Programme will be on 08 Feb 2012. You will be notified of your stage 2 results by the end of 08 Feb, if successful, a Medical appointment will be arranged on 09 Feb 2012. (You are required to acknowledge this email once you have accepted the invitation on or before the 16 Jan 2012).

Attached please find the Job Knowledge Book for your study. For Stage 2 interview, you will be required to arrive by 08.30am to the Flight Crew Recruitment Office which is located on 6/F Flight Training Centre, Cathay Pacific City, Lantau Island, Hong Kong. A visitor pass can be collected from the Reception of the Cathay City main building.

The following assessments will be conducted during the day.

- Aviation Mathematics test (Time allowed: 45mins)
- Personality Test (Computer-based/Time allowed: 30mins)

- Group Exercise (60mins)
- Flight Planning Exercise (90mins)
- Panel Interview (General and Technical: 60mins)

It will finish at approximately 6.00pm. You are advised to bring photocopy of your passport and any updated documents with a passport photo. You may be required to show the original of your Academic documents, Log Book and Licence (if you have any).

Please complete the following attached and bring it along on the day of your Interview if applicable :
1) AE - Logbook Covering Pages (If applicable)
2) AE - Second Officer Stream Table – AE (If applicable)
3) Second Officer Information Update Form

Please note that interviews and tests will be cancelled and rescheduled if Typhoon Signal No. 8 or the Black Rainstorm Warning is hoisted. When the Typhoon Signal or Black Rainstorm Warning is lowered before 0600 hours, candidates should attend the interview and tests as scheduled.

Should you have any question please feel free to contact me via email.

Best Regards,
XXXXXX
Flight Crew Recruitment Specialist
Cathay Pacific Airways

[Aeran]

Well done illustrator ! :ok:

I have a question regarding the Cadet Pilot program.

In the flying experience form, there are two fields, one 'dual' and one 'solo'.

Please confirm, should we write PIC (P1) hours in 'solo' or just the hours when we are the sole occupants of the aircraft.

Thank you. Hi ! Same situation here. But it is said "under formal flight instruction". Consequently, I suppose we should write our "solo" hours acquired during training instead of the hours when we are the "sole occupant of the aircraft".

However, I really have a doubt about it, because we have already mentioned those "solo" hours under the "Flying training & licence" form. Therefore, where should we write the total time as a private pilot, without an instructor on board ? And what about the "last 6 months experience" when we flew as the "sole occupant of the aircraft" ? How did you proceed ?

Any help would be appreciated ! Thanks a lot !

[Pittslover]

Hi guys i just wrote this post in the other thread and realised it would be better to ask the question here. Thanks for help in advance.



First i have to say you can find a lot of good information between the arguments in this thread about the interview and i want to say thanks to the people who took the time to wrtie the reports and facts.

I understand that both sides have valid points to agree or disagree with the new CX SO terms and conditions. Still, for my personal situation CX remains a good option so i want to ask some questions regarding the application.

Currently i hold my FAA CPL/IR license and almost finished my JAA ATPLs. Can i apply before i finish my ATPLs and state the expected date of finishing my ATPLs and CPL/IR conversion in the application?

The other thing is my school education was done in Germany and my school education ist not comparable at all with the english or american system. How can i enter it? Just in the german form and translated?

Take care people!