At last, a journo is starting to get it

[teresa green]

Hamish Mcdonald in the Sydney Morning Herald, is questioning the whole Asian deal, have tried to post it with no success, somebody might be able to pick it up and post. It makes excellent reading and has the same questions we are all asking.

[Wunwing]

There were some interesting articles in last weekends Fincial Review. About a quarter of that issue was about Qantas and about 50%.50% either way so more than one journo is on to it.

[Short_Circuit]

Try this link it might work (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/the-q-is-for-quality--not-a-quick-buck-20111111-1nbaf.html#ixzz1dRazetMb)

[Prong Wallop]

http://images.smh.com.au/2011/11/11/2768359/port-shakespeare-mcdonald-420x0.jpg
The Q is for quality - not a quick buck
November 12, 2011

Opinion
<em>Illustration: Shakespeare</em>

Illustration: Shakespeare

When Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew used to talk of Australians becoming the ''poor white trash'' of Asia, he was careful to exempt one Australian institution from his dim view of us. That was Qantas. If Singapore Airlines could be as good as Qantas, it would be a success.

Now Qantas is emblematic in positioning Australia in the new Asia. At home, it's the focus of a struggle between corporate, workforce and government power, but how it continues to fly the skies of Asia will say a lot about our ability to stay up with the region.

Since the lockout two weeks ago, commentary has focused on the immediate industrial relations' contest. But the strategy pursued by the airline's chief executive, Alan Joyce, and backed by the board under its chairman, Leigh Clifford, needs much closer study.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Identifying Asia as a high-growth market for air travel is a no-brainer. Choice of location, partners and market entry is the hard part. Are Joyce's plans for Asia the best strategy? I'm not so sure. One thing that makes me suspicious is the sheer volume of his blarney. To hear him duck and weave about his $2 million package increase you'd almost think he'd had a pay cut.

The strategy, outlined three months ago in a document called Building a Stronger Qantas, includes the two initiatives that are causing angst about jobs being moved offshore: a new ''premium'' airline, preferably based in Singapore but alternatively in Kuala Lumpur, and a new low-cost carrier based in Japan.

The Singapore airline, maybe named ''RedQ'', would be a premium, full-service airline using up to 11 of the popular regional planes, the A320. Will it get the approval of Singapore's leaders, still smarting from the rejection of a Singapore-Australia stock exchange merger and the continuing refusal of ''beyond'' rights, from Australia across the Pacific, for Singapore Airlines?

Then, would Singaporeans seriously allow Qantas to muscle into the highly profitable business-class highways between Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Japan? Competition will be intense: Singapore Airlines plans its own premium feeder airline, Scoot, and Malaysia's low-cost pioneer, AirAsia's Tony Fernandes, another one.

The new airline in Japan, meanwhile, will be called Jetstar Japan, and have as local partners Japan Airlines and Mitsubishi Corporation. Qantas says it will be the first ''true'' low-cost carrier in Japan, with huge prospects for expanding domestic air travel. This is true enough: Japan has recently deregulated fares, prefectural governments are opening up smaller airports, and the public is switching from travel agents to online bookings - coming closer to the Jetstar model.

What Qantas doesn't mention is that the more nimble of the big Japanese carriers, All Nippon Airways, is establishing two new low-cost airlines: Peach from a hub at Kansai (Osaka-Kyoto) airport, and a joint venture with Fernandes called AirAsia Japan operating from Tokyo's main airport, Narita, head-to-head with Jetstar Japan.

It will be a race for market share and profits may be the main sacrifice. It also has to be asked if Qantas still has the deep expertise on Asia it once had. Its network of regional offices was shut down at the time of its privatisation. Only one or two remain of the bright young executives who were rotated around Asian capitals, coming face-to-face with local travellers, agents, freight shippers, financial systems, regulators and politicians.

Jetstar is even thinner on Asian savvy. Its senior management's style on recent Asian missions is understood to have left local expat executives cringing. Some aviation sources wonder how Jetstar manages to meet the Japanese regulation requiring all incoming aircraft to have at least four Japanese speakers in their flight crew. Its inbound flights dump bewildered Japanese tourists in places like the Gold Coast airport, with little assistance.

What does Jetstar have to offer in Japan? Above all, aviation specialists wonder why Qantas is trying to build up these two new brands in Asia when its own brand is widely known and respected, a result, perhaps, of $1 billion of historic investment in selling costs around the region.

Some think Qantas should try instead a strategy that worked in the 1980s, when the airline faced a similar range of low-cost rivals. Under the then chief executive John Menadue it made a rigorous study of every aspect of travel, then enhanced the business-class segment that Qantas had pioneered.

With a similar targeting of business travellers and high-end tourists - the sort of people who read Conde Nast Traveller and decide they want to see the Bungle Bungles or India's Buddhism sites - plus high-value airfreight (just-in-time spares and online orders one way, premium fresh food the other) and more use of ''beyond'' rights in Asia (Qantas has 28 from Singapore alone), these experts see an attainable recovery of profitability within three to five years.

As well as diminished Asian expertise in the company, Joyce inherited an ageing, fuel-guzzling fleet, arising from his predecessors' poor choices - notably the decision not to invest in the economical Boeing 777, now the mainstay of many rivals, but bank on the 787 Dreamliner, which will be delivered years behind schedule and possibly lacking some of its promised performance.

But perhaps Joyce's biggest limitation is his own mindset, formed in the low-cost carrier market that expanded so dramatically in a merged and borderless Europe, and then here at Jetstar. Add the strike-breaking mentality of his chairman, who has a background in Rio Tinto coal mines and the KKR private equity and junk bond group, and you have a familiar syndrome of a management that sees solutions in ''smashing the culture''.

With a pre-tax profit up 46 per cent to $552 million, despite a claimed loss of $216 million on international fights, Qantas is far from the imminent basket case suggested by Joyce and Jetstar's chief executive, Bruce Buchanan.

Meanwhile, the Middle East competition - Emirates, Qatar, Etihad and Gulf airlines - is heading for a shakeout.

Joyce might do well to give Menadue a call. Of course, Qantas pilots, engineers and ground crews will have to concede some productivity gains, and the word is they are ready to do so. But they need to be taken into an Asian expansion, not left behind.

Superb quality has to be the way Australia competes in Asia. Chase mass markets on cost, and we really will end up as Asia's trash.

Read more: The Q is for quality - not a quick buck (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/the-q-is-for-quality--not-a-quick-buck-20111111-1nbaf.html#ixzz1dTXbrZft)

[Flt.Lt Zed]

Great article.Right on the money.Qantas would be taken to the cleaners in Asia.

[hewlett]

Don't just give Menadue a call, ask him if he can take his old job back!

[alangirvan]

Did he really describe Scoot as a Premium Feeder airline? (yes he did). And his typewriter seems to have got a bit muddled when he was typing the name of the airline from Abu Dhabi. But I guess he wrote some of the things that people want to read.

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

alangirvan Did he realy describe Scoot as a Premium Feeder airline? (yes he did). And his typewriter seems to have got a bit muddled when he was typing the name of the airline from Abu Dhabi. But I guess he wrote some of things that people want to read.


It's Pprune that changes E.T.I.H.A.D to Teahid.

[teresa green]

Thanks Prong, my PC is not the same after the grandkids have got hold of it, I had to fight my way thru some sort of star wars program, to even make it function. Much obliged.

[FGD135]

But the biggest failure in his article is that he doesn't recognise the recent profit as being way thinner than it sounds:


With a pre-tax profit up 46 per cent to $552 million, despite a claimed loss of $216 million on international fights, Qantas is far from the imminent basket case ...

He has made the same mistake as the unions. $552 million sounds like a lot of money, but in fact it is a tiny profit and represents a razor thin margin (about 1.6%).

[jaded boiler]

But an acceptable return nonetheless if compared to most other airlines.

[MACH082]

Collectively airlines have lost more than they have ever made.

Fact.

Airlines will never generate an acceptable return on the capital investment.

Fact.

Qantas would be better sticking the billions in the bank.

Fact.

However Qantas is an airline and that is what is does for better or worse.

Fact.

However they do generate commerce and trade and that is where their true value is golden,

That is why the should be state owned.

And beancounters like Joyce should be sent somewhere like the Canadian NWT where he can't destroy everything he touches.

Fact.

Night all :ok:

[QF94]

But the biggest failure in his article is that he doesn't recognise the recent profit as being way thinner than it sounds:


Quote:
With a pre-tax profit up 46 per cent to $552 million, despite a claimed loss of $216 million on international fights, Qantas is far from the imminent basket case ...
He has made the same mistake as the unions. $552 million sounds like a lot of money, but in fact it is a tiny profit and represents a razor thin margin (about 1.6%).

FGD135,

The $552 million Profits Before Tax for 2011 is well up from $377 million PBT in 2010. This is despite the grounding of the A380 fleet post QF32 incident and the natural disasters earlier this year that have a costing of $224 million.

The $249 million profits after tax for 2011 are more than double that of the $116 million of 2010, despite the problems mentioned above.

Earnings per share of 11c are again well up from the 4.9c of 2010.

This year has been the best year for QANTAS since its record year back in 2008 with a PBT of $1,408 million and after tax profits of $970 million and earnings per share of 50.2c Although, Dixon always played the part of Chicken Little and the sky was always falling in.

The question that hasn't been answered is how is QANTAS International losing $216 million per year? When international revenue is up, passenger numbers are up .

This could be creative accounting with aircraft depreciation and new aircraft purchases in the one year

[LeadSled]

Folks,
And speaking of John Menadue, he was the one who introduced a profit sharing scheme for staff ( similar but not the same as the old SQ scheme) and the effect on staff moral and performance was electric, as in cattle prod, but with a smile.
Unfortunately, after some time it was killed by the "wages accord" deal Hawke did with Bill Kelty and the ACTU --- the latter never likes the idea of earning more by working harder or smarter.
Tootle pip!!

[TallestPoppy]

Mach082

.......That is why the should be state owned........ um No. They need to be run as profitable businesses.

[teresa green]

A full premium service on a A320? Hell, battery hens don't live that close to each other, you will either need to refig, or go back to flinging muffins, the CC would be really battling to do a full service on a A320, but then again I doubt if Joyce has ever been on one.

[Jack Ranga]

He has made the same mistake as the unions. $552 million sounds like a lot of money, but in fact it is a tiny profit and represents a razor thin margin (about 1.6%).

Then he's in the wrong business. If he expects more than this he's dreaming'

I would expect a man of vision to able to work with this, but he's not is he? As the article says, he's low cost airline to the core.

And as MACH says, airlines, airports etc are infrastructure, they facilitate business. Yes they do need to be lean and profitable.

Have a think about when Joyce first got the CEO gig and what he was saying and what he's saying now. You don't think he's being manipulated? So who is making the decisions? What experience do they have in the airline industry? Does anybody on the board have a clue? If anybody thinks that business in any other sector equates with business in the airline industry, they're dreaming' also.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

He has made the same mistake as the unions. $552 million sounds like a lot of money, but in fact it is a tiny profit and represents a razor thin margin (about 1.6%).



I think the success should not be measured by calculating the amount of money they take in versus the final profit. This is where the 1.6% comes from. It should be measured by the company value 3.5bill versus the profit 552 mill.

To put it another way, if you bought a block of land for 35k and it goes up 5k in 12 months, that is a 14% return on investment. What's sad here is that a small investor who put 35k in to Qantas shares 12 months ago saw that investment earn 5k in profit but the Board decided not to share that with the investor. As a double hit they also oversaw a falling share value partially due to their IR policies.

The banking sector in Australia handles trillions of dollars each year. If success was measured by how much of that cashflow they kept, their margin would be less than 1%.

[TallestPoppy]

Hey Teresa Green, "a full service on an A320".......come over to Europe, you will find Cabin Crew doing a full service on an A320, while the pilots take-off in 125m RVR, and land in 0ft 75m RVR, and get paid less than QF crew, and some of us have Aussie ATPL's.

If your costs are higher than the competition, regardless of historic or current reasons, if you cannot convince your customer to pay a premium, you will go out of business.

Be profitable, or go the way of Pan Am, Swiss etc

[neville_nobody]

If your costs are higher than the competition, regardless of historic or current reasons, if you cannot convince your customer to pay a premium, you will go out of business

I think the issue at QF is how the costs are being allocated. Don't believe everything management put in the newspapers.

As for Europe I have flown BA short haul and that is hardly 'full' service. It's no different to anybody else it's just that you don't pay for the food.

[TallestPoppy]

Neville, competition is fierce among many carriers in Europe, legacy and non-legacy.

Do you really think that Qantas, a company listed on the Stock Exchange can "hide figures"? Come on, that is fraud. To use a poor Cup Day analogy, the horse has bolted. Surely the future path of QF is currently being laid out by FWA, subject to tweaking by the Unions and QF.

[Race Bannon]

The corporate world is littered with the carcasses of companies that have been less than forthcoming with accurate EBITs.Many of these inaccuracies have been discovered by journalists who posess the skill,ethics and morality required to do so.

[QFinsider]

It is called segment reporting Tallest poppy. The company define the segment, they allocate costs any way they want.

The "mainline international" part of the business is NOT a reported segment. The loss is as referred to in the senate enquiry more of an internal number.

[TallestPoppy]

Folks, the accounts of any large business such as QF are out there for all to see. If you can highlight any inaccuracies, I am sure accountants, shareholders, and regulators would be very pleased to see FACTS.

Until facts are produced, it's just idle speculation

Please......go on.......provide facts.....

[Race Bannon]

Enron.
Perhaps two acronyms~HIH.
Your naivete is what allows corporations to believe that they can be naughty and get away with it.Corruption at a corporate level is what essentially began the GFC.

[TallestPoppy]

Once again, show me the FACTS


There aren't any, are there?

If Fair Work Australia aren't given any REAL FACTS, QF wins, and it's future is neatly laid out by FWA. It's as simple as that.

[CaptCloudbuster]

We want the facts to come out also.

Can't get QF to expose facts & figures pertinent to the workers 67 questions though....

[TallestPoppy]

CaptCloudBuster, can you not see that it is too late?

Fair Work Australia is now laying out how QF will be for decades.

[CaptCloudbuster]

I agree, we are more than likely screwed.

I don't agree with your argument that there are no facts camouflaged which would expose the Mainline loss for what it really is.

[V-Jet]

Tallest Poppy:
Look at the Senate inquiry in detail and especially the Engineers 61 questions available elsewhere.

One TINY point:

Qantas hedges fuel. If the hedge price is lower than the spot price, Jetstar gets the fuel with no surcharge from Qantas.

If the spot price is lower than the hedge price, Jetstar gets the spot price.

And the list goes on and on and on and on. There is undoubted price scamming twixt the two.

The CSM on my last flight had Jetstar F/A's on a LAX pattern!

This is Enron stuff - no doubt about it.

[Sunfish]

Tallest Poppy:

Do you really think that Qantas, a company listed on the Stock Exchange can "hide figures"? Come on, that is fraud.

I'm afraid you should stick to flying and get a qualified accountant to do your tax return.

There are typically THREE sets of accounts in any business.

- The Tax accounts.

- The statutory accounts - which is what is required by the ASX.

- and finally the confidential management accounts these are broken up by segment and contain the really crucial confidential warts and all data, like contribution margins, that are essential for the running of the business.

The ASX accounts are a very broad brush - they provide a consolidated picture of the business, not the minutiae of all the accounting cost allocation policies employed and the amounts involved.

Without knowing exactly how Qantas has allocated costs the statement "Jetstar made a profit and International lost $200 million" is meaningless hot air. Especially as there are numerous stories on pprune and elsewhere alleging that Jetstar is getting access to significant cost savings through dodgy cost allocation.

You should also be aware that this isn't "Fraud" at all. The statutory accounts will no doubt be pure and correct as the driven snow. Joyce simply makes assertions but refuses to provide the management accounting data to back them up.

I'm speaking as someone who has the scars from airline cost allocation fights between subsidiaries and the mainline. There are stacks of assumptions involved and the fighting between segment managers over "their fair share" of costs can be pretty brutal.

[mmciau]

Sunfish,

Dead right about the 3 sets of books!!!! And I worked for the ATO in the late 1960s and early 1970s!!

Mike


There are typically THREE sets of accounts in any business.

- The Tax accounts.

- The statutory accounts - which is what is required by the ASX.

- and finally the confidential management accounts these are broken up by segment and contain the really crucial confidential warts and all data, like contribution margins, that are essential for the running of the business.

[neville_nobody]

Do you really think that Qantas, a company listed on the Stock Exchange can "hide figures"? Come on, that is fraud.

Yes. I am coming to the opinion that there is something very dodgy going on at QF. There is a bigger game in play that is yet to be revealed.

1. Firstly they have been caught with some questionable cost allocations in the past.

2. They were involved in the biggest collusion ever known to man. Allegedly all orchestrated by one man. I am not so gullible to believe that to be true. I for one cannot see how one guy could single handed organise such a scam within a company.

3. The Australian Share holders association was publically questioning their accounting at the AGM.

4. It is the nature of aviation. I have seen to many companies big and small in aviation who are just shams, tax scams, or a front for something else. Very very very few aviation companies in Australia are actually run as a legitimate open aviation business. The owners/managers are often milking something off somewhere and the aviation business is paying the cost for that corruption of the aviation business. The problem with aviation as a business is that since the capital costs are so high they often have very high turnovers. So people can have little corruption scams going on and it is absorbed by the aviation business. I might add that some of these things are totally legitimate business practices, however they are corrupting the aviation business and provide a front for the owners to cry poor when in fact they are diverting the money elsewhere.

5. Do you think it is slightly suspicious that former QF management were going to get paid alot of money by telling everyone to sell their shares and secondly is it not interesting that former QF management had a stake in a aircraft leasing company?

[breakfastburrito]

AFR back page Saturday Nov 12 2011

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5169/afr12nov2011002.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/507/afr12nov2011002.jpg/)

(Click to expand)
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6702/afr12nov2011.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/339/afr12nov2011.jpg/)


Leigh Clifford comes from the mining industry where the general public don't directly purchase the product. Those who do purchase the product are likely to be corporate types who simply look at the bottom line. Image, whilst not irrelevant, is hardly likely to harm the bottom line too much.

Aviation is a different story. The competitors have seen this weakness, and intend to exploit it for all its worth.

[Groaner]

that investment earn 5k in profit but the Board decided not to share that with the investor

Fed Sec, you might want to stick to IR. If the Board decided to share it with the investors, then you might be a little stuffed for replacement or expansion aircraft and other assets... not sure you want that.

[Nepotisim]

Another article in The Age although not by a journalist. Bruce Hearn Mackinnon, a lecturer at Deakin Uni.

Qantas Grounding | Fair Work Halts Qantas Grounding (http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/facts-fly-under-the-radar-20111116-1nj57.html)

[DutchRoll]

Do you really think that Qantas, a company listed on the Stock Exchange can "hide figures"?

Do you seriously believe they cannot? Do you honestly want to go over the histories of the rotting carcasses of various companies around the world which did exactly that? These are companies whose executives are doing prison time in the USA, for example. Or whose executives managed to retire to a life of luxury in Majorca and avoid extradition until they died.

"My administration will do everything in our power to end the days of cooking the books, shading the truth and breaking our laws."

George W Bush, President of the United States of America, 2002 Speech to the New York Stock Exchange, Wall Street. Fat lot of notice they took of GW's speech. See below.

Folks, the accounts of any large business such as QF are out there for all to see.

Actually, no they are not. It is naivety in the extreme to think they are. Qantas have point blank refused to have all their books forensically examined. They have offered nothing more than a careful selection. This should not surprise anyone at all. You need look no further than the huge accounting frauds of recent years. In fact, corporate accountants freely admit that they're only going on the information they're given, and whether or not that bears any resemblance to reality within the corporation is another matter entirely.

"FACTS", as you say, are hard to come by until someone removes power to the shredder, and even that doesn't usually happen before the receivers or administrators of a large corporation move in after bankruptcy.

A small selection of corporate scandals since Enron, Arthur Anderson accounting 2002, and a total train-wreck of other corporations around the world:

MCI-Worldcom, 2002. Accounting scandal. False reporting cost investors $100 billion. In 2005, former CEO sentenced to 25 years imprisonment.

Rite Aid, 2004. Accounting scandal. Vice Chairman imprisoned for 10 years, released after serving 6.

Shell, 2004. Deliberately overstated oil reserves. Chairman forced to resign. 17 million pound fine. $450 million lawsuit against company won by shareholders.

Tyco retrial, 2005. Chief Executive and CFO sentenced to minimum 8 years, maximum 25 years imprisonment. In 2007, shareholders awarded $3 billion in class action settlement.

Brocade Communications, 2005. CEO charged with stockmarket fraud. After trials and appeals, he was eventually convicted and sentenced to imprisonment and a $15 million fine. He is still in prison.

Madoff Investment Securities/Wealth Management, 2008. The Wall Street firm defrauded investors of $65 billion. In 2009, Chairman sentenced to 150 years imprisonment.

And mate, this is just the tip of the corporate, public company, stockmarket listed, shareholder-owned iceberg! We could go for many pages!

[QF94]

DutchRoll,

They are all US/foreign companies. I know you stated that it is the tip of the iceberg, but a few closer to home would include:

HIH
OneTel
ABC Learning Group
Storm Financial Group
Rubicon Property Group
Ansett
The list can go on, but I think people will get the picture. It's not companies that go bad. It's the directors that get greedy.

[QF94]

Nepotism,

A great article, and just an extract from it below.


In the hearing before FWA, there was no indication from members of the full bench that they agreed with Joyce's odd rationale. In any case, FWA was concerned with preventing the airline's planned lockout of its staff. Ultimately, the Fair Work Act worked smoothly, with FWA holding a full bench hearing and then ordering a stop to Qantas' planned lockout. In the end, there was no lockout and not a single worker lost a day's pay.

So, what does this episode tell us about Qantas and the current state of industrial relations in Australia? It exposes a senior management team willing to trash its own company's brand, cause irreparable harm to the Australian economy as well as inconvenience its customers for stated reasons that defy logic.

It is worth noting that FWA found that the unions' industrial campaign had not caused significant economic harm, as Qantas pilots had not taken any strike action, instead restricting their campaign to making in-flight announcements airing their grievances to passengers. The only factor causing significant economic damage was management's grounding of the fleet.

There was nothing about the events of that weekend that call into question the efficacy of the Fair Work Act. Ultimately, the government intervened when it received notification of the Qantas decision and a full-bench hearing of FWA took place, leading to the termination of all industrial action, well in advance of the planned commencement of the lockout. By any measure, the Fair Work Act came out smelling of roses. Qantas, on the other hand, has a rather different odour about it.

Bruce Hearn Mackinnon is a senior lecturer in human resource management at Deakin University.

[boofta]

The workers may not have lost any pay,but around 60,000 passengers
were screwed over for a few days, a brilliant move AJ.

[DutchRoll]

QF94, yeah true, those were US companies, and some of the Australian ones did spring to mind.

However the other point I wanted to get across was that the US actually imprison their wayward corporate executives, sometimes for a very long time. At best, we give ours a slap on the wrist and they move on. Australian investigation, enforcement and punishment of corporate malfeasance is an international joke, and everybody knows it. :rolleyes:

[QF94]

Ron Adler of HIH copped a gaol term, albeit a token one. Maybe AJ and LC should share a cell together. We can only hope!

[MACH082]

Maybe AJ and LC should share a cell together. We can only hope!

When you've been bending people over all those years and giving them the pineapple, karma brings a leprechaun to return the favour.

[DutchRoll]

Maybe AJ and LC should share a cell together

Yeah, you know I've often wondered if the Alan Joyce who is so certain of where every dollar of his Qantas Group money goes that he can categorically state there are no cost transfers from Jetstar to Mainline, is the same Alan Joyce who was absolutely bewildered and had no idea at all that Qantas was involved in a huge international cargo price-fixing cartel at an upper-management level.

[QF94]

Quote:
Maybe AJ and LC should share a cell together. We can only hope!
When you've been bending people over all those years and giving them the pineapple, karma brings a leprechaun to return the favour.

Mach082,

I don't know where you get that the employees have been bending the management over for years. For years we have been bent over for a measely 3-4%pa, introducing operational cost-cutting measures and took a payment freeze to help out the company. And this is the favour you say we are being repaid?

We really screwed the company to a $500million profit this year didn't we? We really stopped the company from being one of the most profitable airlines in the world for the last 10 years or so haven't we. We really screwed Dixon and Joyce from getting their pay rises and bonuses for a share price that has been in a spiral dive.

Either you live in lala land or have a major gripe against those of us in QANTAS because we get what you could never achieve, and you would like to see the lot of us get screwed over.

I hope you enjoy your Irish pineapples.

[MACH082]

Mate bit slow to read the punchline?

I'll explain it to you very slowly, I'll include pictures if you need it, although gay porn is not my thing!

LC has been bending staff over for years (i.e sticking pineapples in their behind) HIS karma is sharing a cell with a leprechaun who enjoys this recreationally :ok:

[QF94]

Mach082

My apologies for being a bit too quick to bite. I interpreted that Joyce was our payback for supposedly screwing the company over.