King of Good times has gone fishing!!!

[Wannabe Flyer]

Over 100 Kingfisher pilots quit: Sources - Business News - IBNLive (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/over-100-kingfisher-pilots-quit-sources/201111-7.html)


For once VJ does not have to pay for ad space in the media. Sad to see it going down the tube, but i guess this might be needed to get the airline industry in this country back into any shape at all.

If Deccan and Sahara had been allowed to sink rather than succumb to inflated ego buyouts maybe this would not have happened.

I wonder if a shortage of aircrew will still exist if this airline sinks!

[LieDetector]

Where does Air Sahara figure in this equation?

[captjns]

Wannabe

Check your facts about Sahara... They were taken up by the Jet Group, and not by KF.

[PEC]

I wonder if a shortage of aircrew will still exist if this airline sinks!
Not for some time to come. It'll be carnage all across the market - Transition Captains and F/Os (Indian) with hundreds/thousands on the RHS of the A320/ATR/A330 will invade the likes of IndiGo, Jet etc. , further delaying the prospects of those mint-CPLs getting to the flight-deck.

[airbuswala]

Kingfisher's emergency landing raises safety questions - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/CCIS-1111-KFs-emergency-landing-raises-safety-questions/articleshow/10685012.cms)

[itsbrokenagain]

3rd day in a row more flights cancelled...

But of course its for 'business class seat upgrades' ... do they think the country is that stupid ? :oh:

[Wannabe Flyer]

Lie Detector and captjns: I never stated that Sahara was taken over by KF. I simply said that if Sahara and Deccan were allowed to sink (close down) rather than be taken over by inflated ego (Sahara by goyal and Deccan by VJ) then maybe the industry would have been in a better shape.

In the case of Sahara in the end it put a severe strain on Jets B/S and IMHO jet did not need to take it over, it would have sunk anyways as the state of their aircraft, system, and brand showed once the acquisition was done. From last count sahara cost Jet about half a billion dollars plus another 100 million in pending tax and litigation liability to take over a small fleet with partially serviceable aircraft. That is cash down the tube.

So playing out the scenario, if Sahara had sunk, and Deccan had run out of cash they would have shut down and that would have allowed the airline industry to raise prices and have more profitable routes about 3 years ahead of the curve. In stead they bought loss making aircraft on duplicate routes and spent time, effort, resources and the like in trying to merge them and play around with the brand spending more and more money on that rather than on concentrating on their own operations. I think Indigo did just that, put their head down and concentrated on the bottom line and not on showing off!

:ok:

[LieDetector]

Unfortunately Sahara take over had little or no bearing on the misfortunes of Jet and also something that required no special fix. Jet like kingfisher suffers from over capacity is overstaffed and adversely affected by the whole low cost competition fiasco.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Lie Detector: Would disagree that it had no bearing. It cost the company a lot of cash that could have been deployed in enhancing their more profitable routes internationally.

Also running 2 airlines under one umbrella is tough and Jet konnect seems to be proof of their resolve to slowly finish off S2, hence a failed exercise there.

Last but not the least the tax and legal issues in court are but a pain in the ass.

[LieDetector]

Like I said nothing that couldn't be fixed, they posted a decent number of good profit quarters. Although their focus shift towards low cost seemed to have a somewhat negative influence on the overall operations.

Anyways back on topic Kingfisher is requesting the govt to ask banks and financial establishments to lend to them at rates similar to that negotiated for the national carrier.

[niksmathew24]

Dear Mr. XXXX

On behalf of Kingfisher Airlines, I am grateful to you for your support and patronage of our services. I would like to take this opportunity to update you on recent developments at Kingfisher Airlines vis-a-vis media reports on our performance.

As you are aware, the Indian Aviation Industry has been faced with the difficult task of coping with high costs and lower yields. Post considerable thought and deliberation, Kingfisher Airlines has rolled out initiatives that aim to drive the long-term profitability in our efforts to meet these challenges.
As announced earlier, we have decided to focus on the full-service market; to this end Kingfisher Airlines has initiated reconfiguration of its aircraft. This exercise will require few of our aircraft to be out of service for the next few weeks. Ergo and in line with maximizing productivity we have rationalized our network, resulting in a temporary discontinuation of approximately 50 flights out of our current operating schedule of approximately 350 departures per day. Once the reconfiguration is complete, these aircraft will be pressed back into service immediately. Clearly the report about our flights being cancelled owing to the supposed exodus of pilots appears to be falsified.
Our service commitment to you remains sacrosanct, and we have taken every measure to reduce any inconvenience caused due to the temporary changes in schedule. Please accept my sincere apologies in case you have been inconvenienced on this account; I truly appreciate your support, and thank you for your understanding.
I look forward to your continued patronage and remain,

Yours sincerely,

Anshu Sarin
Vice President
Guest Loyalty and Kingfisher Holidays



What a truck load of BS!!

[guitarboy]

If Air India can stay alive, kfa is still in a better position than AI, they're not going anywhere for a couple of years.

[LieDetector]

AI has an unlimited supply of your and my tax money, KF does not.

[Iver]

Where are the KF pilots going? Other Indian airlines? Emirates and Qatar? Clearly Emirates and Qatar are both hiring Airbus rated pilots...

Any examples?

[LieDetector]

Some were absorbed by Go and IndiGo the experienced guys are off to the middle east, 3000+ hours on an Airbus makes you look very attractive their right now.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Well the opposition has stepped in and said that the government should not revert to communist era practices of supporting and taking over sick industry. While all the hullah baloo is about KF $1.5 billion dollar debt no one is looking at Jet with a $3.5 billion debt.

I think the industry is going into sick mode and with ATF at 58K and climbing the price war end and a minimum price policy based on a fuel rational is the only step the government should take.

Also stop the mandatory flying to un connected areas if they are not profitable

[pilotbaba]

I don't know why in a free country a Pilot has to work like slave labour & give 6 months notice.

At least one good thing that will turn out of this & it will be good for the pilots who don't have to wait for 6 months mandatory NOTICE peirod. They are free birds, they can join Indigo, GO AIR, JET or QATAR EMIRATES ETC ETC.......

As for the knowledge of others who are either newcomers or not familiar with Indian Aviation, SAHARA did not sell it self, it was an almost hostile takeover.

Jet got SAHARA, KF got DECCAN, It's all about business, business ego, predatory attitudes & "killing the competition by even taking losses ..... survival of the fittest & strongest mentality..."

SAD but true.....

As far as filling the VOID, someone else will come & Either replace KF or buy it...... That's how it has been since the de-reglation of the airlines in INDIA.... I wouldn't be surprised if SAHARA group may buy one or start one again.

[superdunkaroos]

Well the spoon that has been feeding KF is gone now...cough..Mr. Patel...cough, so now with nobody to help clean up their mess and in the face of competition(spice,IndiGo,Go) Kingfisher is now feeling the heat.

Where is Mr Mallaya's old friend now?
I guess the proverbial saying "Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan" perfectly describes the state of affairs.

[Wannabe Flyer]

@pilot baba

A lack of feel of Indian aviation does not mean one is not familiar with business

Definition of a hostile takeover

The acquisition of one company (called the target company) by another (called the acquirer) that is accomplished not by coming to an agreement with the target company's management, but by going directly to the company’s shareholders or fighting to replace management in order to get the acquisition approved. A hostile takeover can be accomplished through either a tender offer or a proxy fight.

Extracts from the deal

"They have agreed to buy Sahara for $500 million in an all-cash deal," sources in Sahara Group said within minutes of Jet Airways informing the Bombay Stock Exchange its board decision to acquire Air Sahara.

1) Sahara was not listed and therefore there were no shareholders to go to for a hostile bid

2) Based on the above therefore it was not possible to be defined as a hostile takeover or even an almost hostile takeover

3) I am assuming that you meant that Jet cornered Sahara to such an extent both with pricing, strategy and maybe political influence that they were compelled to sell or sink, maybe even cut their losses and run.

I would tend to agree with point # 3 and in most cases that is called competition and or survival of the fittest. My personal opinion Sahara was way beyond salvage and it was a matter of time before they got whacked with a serious incident both from a safety point of view as well as from a corporate governance point of view.

Hence all is fair in love and war and you have summed it up survival of the fittest. Something Indian aviation needs to learn and get out from the "cheap cheap cheap" mentality.

Buying KF would be disastrous. It would be better to let it sink or clean up its act and come back re structured.

As far as Sahara group buying it back, it would be subject to:

1) Any non compete in clause with jet
2) Sahara group moves SC against SAT order - The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/regulation/sahara-group-moves-sc-against-sat-order/articleshow/10695935.cms)
(they need to refund billions as per a court order.

Investing with Mallya in F1 is not necessarily mean that Roy will bail his aviation out, but then stranger things have happened.






Read more: Hostile Takeover Definition (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/h/hostiletakeover.asp#ixzz1dTas1An2)

[rahulred5]

With 140 pilots leaving KFA the question is how many pilots are still left in the airline ?

[LieDetector]

They had an excess of 500 pilots at the beginning of the year.