Monarch MPL with CTC.

[L0wFly3r]

Hi Everyone,

I stumbled across this, just now.

Monarch Wings | CTC Wings (http://www.ctcwings.com/monarchwings)

Seems like these MPL schemes are getting very popular.

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

Good on MON for getting Involved in ab-initio trg. Let's hope it's a full commitment and not just a advertising gimic by getting involved in flexi-screw! Contracting FOs!

[student88]

Great news although I would advice applicants to think twice before signing up to a tagged scheme with an airline with apparent financial weakness.

[kingofkabul]

It says that in October 2011 8 students were pre-selected for a "Monarch Wings" course. Never heard of that one. This MPL is supposed to start in December, ambitious considering it is already November in Sydney.

Monarch is losing cash and received a £75m cash injection from the Mantegazza family only last week - however given its gatwick and luton slot portfolio and its route network and fleet it could be very attractive for easyJet to snap up, as was GB Airways.

[KLMF100poshboy]

Recruitment seems closed, anyone know the latest?

[PilotsOfTheCaribbean]

I would advice applicants to think twice


Good "advise" there student. It is usually better to think more than twice before embarking on an aviation career.

However it should also be pointed out that the company is a private company owned by the 354th richest individual on the planet. It has also made a profit that has contributed to that wealth for 41 out of the last 43 years.

Industry and general economic changes are causing a reversal of cashflow, with inward investment being made to ensure that the company adapts to meet the foreseeable challenges of the next four decades.


apparent financial weakness.


That is what happens when your shareholders, customers, bankers and suppliers lose confidence in you. As the Sunday Times is clearly your window on the world, look again, and you will see the owners are not losing confidence.

This scheme is a confirmation and evolution of a programme that has already been in place between these two companies for over 15 years.

[student88]

easyJet won't buy Monarch. Gatwick is strong enough now and the fleet alone is enough to put anyone off. GB's fleet made the transition relatively easy. Carolyn has enough :mad: from Stellios over expansion without taking over another airline.

[StevieW]

It says that in October 2011 8 students were pre-selected for a "Monarch Wings" course. Never heard of that one. This MPL is supposed to start in December, ambitious considering it is already November in Sydney.

8 of the CTC Wings group that started in October 2011 were pre selected by Monarch. A further 6 will be taken from the CTC Wings group starting in December.

[turbine100]

If Monarch were perhaps running at a lose or finances uncertain and they are taking CTC MPL's. Perhaps do some research into them. You would not want to find they no longer take those MPL recruits at the end of training with CTC. It could be harder to get a job in that situation with the MPL initially.

[socrates]

Interesting point byturbine100.

Wonder if this is what prompted his post:

Downturn throws MPL pilots on scrapheap (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/downturn-throws-mpl-pilots-on-scrapheap-310559/)

[shorty79]

I'm considering the MPL and thought it was worth noting:

Easyjet pretax losses (2011 Half Year Results) £153m.
2011 Half Year Results (http://corporate.easyjet.com/media/latest-news/news-year-2011/10-05-2011-en.aspx?sc_lang=en)


Whilst for BA, IAG (BA) pretax profit €39m (compared to a loss of €419m for the same period in 2010). IAG announces half-year profits - Business Traveller (http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/iag-announces-half-year-profits)

I think it's possible to read what you want into this.

I might be naive but I would think that the accountants at Monarch would be looking at ways to increase future revenue, so a cadet scheme seems like an affordable option (cheaper than experienced pilots).

[HPbleed]

I'm not sure what your point is. easyJet are expecting to post profits of £240m this year.

[Groundloop]

easyJet usually makes a loss over the winter half-year. More than makes up for it over the summer!

[turbine100]

I guess the point might not be the profit / loss, but if you end up not joining that operator after completing your MPL, how easy will be to get join another operator or perhaps the cost of the training to able to fly single pilot. Always good to have a plan B.

[shorty79]

"I'm not sure what your point is. easyJet are expecting to post profits of £240m this year."

My point, if any, is that on paper BA are the only 'sure thing' based on financial results at the moment, BUT you would have to have a very short memory not to recall the last decade. 'Expecting' is also an intersting word - a lot is going on in Europe at the moment. I hope they do reach their targets. It would be good for all the industry.

Ok, so there are no such things as 'sure things' but in terms of financial backing Monarch's pedigree seems equal to easyjet, yet no one's questioning easyjet's commitments to their MPL cadets. I'm not suggesting that it should be doubted either.

You would need a crystal ball to predict whether the market will pick-up, or at least continue the need for MPL cadets. However an opportunity to bypass the cadet pool, or not to put all of one's eggs in the flexicrew basket is very tempting. It doesn't increase the FTO's training capacity in fact it ties up more expensive sim time. The MPL is more expensive.

I can't see any decent FTO ditching MPL students in the event of the mentoring airline going under. However I would expect the FTO to pass the cost of any additional training back on to the student in order to return to the fATPL scheme (but that's just my hunch).

[bangout]

So we never really got a look-in on this then?! Just had an email to say CTC have already selected their candidates...

[L0wFly3r]

It is interesting, that nobody Knew anything about this scheme. I mean how did the selected candidates find out?? :\

Unlike other operators who are doing the MPLs, you saw it all in the magazines. etc.

[golball59]

Well I assume that this was offered to candidates already starting in December on the wings course, but as to how they were selected from that group, I do not know.

Was never going to be offered to anyone else, there simply was/is not enough time! Lucky 6 eh!!!

[shorty79]

I 'believe', of the 30 or so starting in December, I don't 'think' the actual selection of the lucky 6 has been made yet. If I had to 'guess', I 'imagine' they will be internally intwerviewing asap.

;)

[angelorange]

Monarch now officially smaller than Jet2.

Steer clear of MPL if you want freedom of choice in your early career flying and wider employment possibilities worldwide. Frozen ATPL makes more sense unless you get into BA.

[shorty79]

Interesting - would you therefore rule out easyjet and monarch?

I've had a quick search for the pitfalls, i.e. being eligible for a command, transferring to another airline, additional type ratings etc.

I found this from OAA useful:
ask.oxfordaviation.net • View topic - Common misconceptions about the MPL (http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4945)


Common misconceptions about the MPL (http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4945#p27815)

Here are some of the more common myths about MPL:

No solo flight involved – False
Each FTO will include solo hours in a piston single in their MPL courses with a minimum of 10 hours required.

MPL holders can’t become Captains – False
The guidelines for upgrading an MPL to an ATPL are identical to those required for unfreezing a frozen ATPL.

An MPL holder is restricted to one aircraft type – False
All one needs to change type is a new type rating, which is the same rule for an fATPL or ATPL holder.

An MPL restricts the holder to one airline – False
It is unlikely that an MPL holder would voluntarily leave their mentoring airline before they reach 1,500 hours total time and upgrade to an unfrozen ATPL; however, from a regulatory point of view an MPL holder can transfer to another airline on the same aircraft type if they complete the new airline’s conversion course or take a rating for a new type with the new operator.

The MPL was designed to meet pilot shortages in Asia – False
MPL had it’s birth immediately post 9/11 when there was a surplus of pilots. MPL cannot cure any future pilot shortages, but it can mitigate them slightly by cutting a month or two off training. Because the mentoring airline must choose the cadets 18-24 months in advance of needing them, it is an effective way to hedge against a forecast pilot shortage, but this would apply to an fATPL scheme as well, so it is unlikely to be the primary reason an airline would launch a mentored scheme.

MPL will make an fATPL obsolete – False
MPL requires airline sponsorship or at least mentorship. Very few airlines are willing to make hiring decisions before ab-initio training commences, so self-sponsored students need not fear MPL making their fATPL obsolete.

MPL is less expensive than an fATPL course
MPL was not created to reduce cost, but it may have that effect if it is shorter since the student may not need to fund as many months of living expenses.

MPL pilots won't be as good due to less time in real airplanes during the course - False
If anything, I think MPL holders will be significantly better at multicrew operations. They will receive over 110 hours of multicrew training before they commence the Type Rating as opposed to the 36 hours an APP First Officer graduate receives. Bear in mind that APP First Officer includes a 16 hour JOC that integrated graduates from other FTOs don't receive, so most fATPL holders only get a 15 or 20 hour MCC course. In my opinion, MPL Cadets would probably out perform most fATPL holders in an airline simulator assessment, which is what really counts the most.
Mike Griffith
Team Leader - Product Development and Marketing
Oxford Aviation Academy

[shorty79]

So, to be clear, the general consensus is that an fATPL with no employment lined up after is more desirable than 6 lucky cadets being offered a contract on the basis that they can achieve the required proficiencies (i.e. pass the course as you would have to on an fATPL)?

If I were to be fortunate enough to be offered an interview place, I would be sure to ask this directly to the airline's representative.

Again ;)




(Actually I'll be honest and stop defending the MPL concept for a moment - what really bothers me is that on an MPL you end up doing less flying, but on the flip side you end up with more sim time)

[HPbleed]

MPL pilots won't be as good due to less time in real airplanes during the course - False
If anything, I think MPL holders will be significantly better at multicrew operations. They will receive over 110 hours of multicrew training before they commence the Type Rating as opposed to the 36 hours an APP First Officer graduate receives. Bear in mind that APP First Officer includes a 16 hour JOC that integrated graduates from other FTOs don't receive, so most fATPL holders only get a 15 or 20 hour MCC course. In my opinion, MPL Cadets would probably out perform most fATPL holders in an airline simulator assessment, which is what really counts the most.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA :ugh:

What about situational awareness? What about airmanship? What about all the other things you learn in your very first steps of flying a light aircraft? Do you think they're not necessary when transitioning to a jet?

[golball59]

So has anyone heard anything more?

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

What about situational awareness? What about airmanship? What about all the other things you learn in your very first steps of flying a light aircraft? Do you think they're not necessary when transitioning to a jet?

So a fATPL holder with only 200hrs has all these attributes and an MPL holder with 240 hours of tailored training (not burning holes in the sky on solo ex) doesn't? Get real!

[The African Dude]

The fact that this is written by Leader - Product Development and Marketing should have you thinking twice.

If it isn't... then :ugh:

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

Well if a marketing man bothers you, try looking in part FCL, or speak to those who actually fly with MPL holders.