Place in Aviation for introverts?

[Trying_]

I am currently training toward CPL and have recently been identified by the Myers-Briggs type indicator as being more toward the introverted personality. From what I can gather, Airlines perform extensive assessment into a candidates personality type, my question is, will this be a major disadvantage in my potential career? FWIW I have deduced that airlines like QF are out of the question.

I have always maintained a strong motivation toward working for the Airlines and half the reason for this post is that once I complete my CPL I will be looking into applying to the various cadet schemes as well as the traditional GA charter companies. I am unsure whether it would be better for me to try directly for these, or to first join the military or engage another role more teamwork based to build some life experience.

Appreciate any serious feedback, PM or otherwise.

[emeritus]

Trying,

Go for it. Give it your best shot. Tis better to have tried and failed than never tried at all.

I was with Ansett, involved in training and checking when the company started doing psych testing. The scrub rate for intake pilots basically stayed the same, indicating for me that the senior pilots that did the interviewing knew how to assess what they were looking for without having to rely on tests.

I would not have any worries sitting down the back knowing the drivers were "tending towards" (sounds like someone was not sure enough of their assessment ) to being introverted.

Nobody but NOBODY knows what you are capable of until you give it a try.:ok:

Emeritus

[Arm out the window]

I'd say don't put too much store in personality testing - it can indicate traits and so on, but what really counts is how motivated you are and your aptitude for the physical and mental demands of the job.

As far as crewed ops go, all kinds of personality types can and do fit in, as long as they're not too extreme - you get the loud boisterous types and the quiet ones, and all points in between.

Leave the conjecture to the psychs and just give it your best go, if you really want to make a career of it.

Being an introvert isn't necessarily a drawback in flying as long as you're not too timid to speak up when you need to. I'd probably rather fly with someone who's slightly reserved than a loud 'I-am' type.

[Pandanus]

It would be a problem if:

QF group was the only one in the world you could fly for...and
It was the one you had your heart set on
Looking across the fence at the poor souls being mauled by their corrupted management :yuk:, it seems likely to me that while 1. is incorrect, 2. is unlilkely.

With that then, I'd take the results of the MB test, flush it down where it belongs, and think no more about it "Trying".

Get that CPL done, head north, stay there and make it home for the years that are required. The rest will eventually follow if you're prepared to be as patient as a saint, stand your ground like a soldier, and stick with it like herpes on a harlot.

[Hasherucf]

There is a place called Engineering .....we don't like talking to pilots either ;-)

[mcgrath50]

I'm an introvert according to MBTI and have passed various aptitude testing for different aviation jobs. From talking to recruiters, for the personality quizzes they will 'scrub' you based on them for 1 of 2 reasons, either you are sooooo far down one end of a scale (either massive introvert or extrovert for example isn't great), this though is very rare, or they need an excuse to scrub you.

As long as you can engage an interviewer, look someone in the eye, shake hands and make a sentence or two of small talk, you shouldn't have a problem in the selection process because of being an introvert.

[Fantome]

As far as the old psych tests went that Ansett conducted through the offices of McLeod and Chandler, the Melbourne aptitude testing firm, it certainly had a shonky component. There was a management pilot, one Captain Stanton, who pushed hard for such methods of assessment to be introduced, recommending that the contract be awarded to M and C.
I recall the shock/horror when it was revealed that Mrs Stanton was an executive of the firm.

As an assessment tool as to whether an applicant was to be classified intro or extra, many of the questions were ludicrous.

Answer yes or no . . .. . would you prefer to sit at home and read a book or go out to a party?
************************************************************ *****

CROSS-WIND . . . . DRIFTING...DRIFTING . . .

For sanity correctives no one provided such better than the late Ross Campbell. Read his autobiography AN URGE TO LAUGH and this fact will become abundantly clear.

While an undergraduate at Melbourne University in the early 1930s, Campbell became a co-editor and contributor to the student weekly newspaper Farrago. He was to maintain lifelong contact and friendships with a number of fellow Farragoans from this period. Included in this series is the obituary by fellow Farrago hand Alan Benjamin; and a photocopy of a letter to Cyril Pearl from Ian Mair lamenting Campbell's death.

ROYAL AUSTRALIAN AIR FORCE, 1942-1946

Although originally enlisting as a gunner in the army in World War II, Campbell transferred to the Royal Australian Air Force in 1942, qualifying as a navigator as part of the Canada Empire Training Scheme in December of the following year. For his part in RAF Bomber Command operations over Europe he was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. This series consists of a number of personal papers relating to his war service, including: his official identity card; certificates of service and discharge; flying log book; pay book (1945-46); DFC certificate; British Air Ministry memorandum of 1 March 1945; and an Allied war leaflet produced (in German) towards the end of the war persuading Germans as to the futility of fighting on.

CONSOLIDATED PRESS CLIPPINGS FILES, 1954-1972

From 1954 until his retirement in 1978 Campbell wrote for a number of publications in the Consolidated Press (later Australian Consolidated Press) stable, firstly as a feature writer and reviewer, but as his talent for gentle satire became recognised, as a humorist. Through his anecdotes describing family and home life in 'Oxalis Cottage', he built up a loyal readership, endearing himself and becoming familiar to many Australians. On retirement from Australian Consolidated Press in 1978 he was given a number of 'back files' containing clippings of his columns, which had created by staff at ACP.


The foregoing is lifted from the Australian National Library website.

In one of his weekly columns in the old BULLETIN he mused about a family he knew, by name of Vert.

Con was the elder brother, always forcing his unwanted opinions on others.

Extra was a bit Peck's Paste . .. 'a little bit goes a long way.'

Intro never bothered anyone, as he tended to reflect upon what he wanted to say before opening his trap.

Per was the black sheep of the family. His long absences, the dark rings under his eyes, his creepy way of laughing and the double locks on his bedroom door gave rise to much conjecture within the family.

[Arm out the window]

Yes, but what do you mean by that?

I still remember some of the whacky ones we were asked as young blokes applying for the RAAF, like "If you're standing near the edge of a high cliff, do you get the urge to jump off?"

I think there was also one about whether you liked the smell of your own farts!

OK, psychs can do a good job sometimes, but there seems to be a fair whack of mumbo jumbo in some of their methods.

[Brian Abraham]

Trying_, you'd make the perfect helo pilot.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/babraham227/helicopter_pilot.jpg

Seriously though, as emeritus says, go for it and the very best of luck. :ok:

[Howard Hughes]

Trying_, you'd make the perfect helo pilot.

Where does it say he drinks like a fish? :E

[mattyj]

Introvert..don't be ridiculous! you'll never rise to the top in Aviation unless you love pointing out weaknesses you have discovered in your peers' performance :}:*

[Worrals in the wilds]

Are they still using the MB for recruitment? Do they do a tarot reading as well? :hmm: It can be a fun thing for team building or testing yourself on the internet, but whether its results actually mean anything is pretty questionable. Lots of people come up with different answers each time they take the test, depending on their mood at the time.
The Myers-Briggs Personality Test (http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4221)

MYERS-BRIGGS FOR DUMMIES (http://rossbender.org/myersbriggs.html) (language warning for this one).

There are plenty of books/articles around about being a better people person if you're worried about being the shy, retiring type in an interview. :) I think mgrath50 is pretty much on the money in this regard. Good luck, anyway!

[waren9]

Agree with those above.

At 22 these things are not set in stone. We all do some growing and maturing beyond this age.

If you want to fly for a living, go and get on with it. Good luck, see you out there one day.

[truthinbeer]

I expect they might be more concerned you came from Wollongong where there are almost as many weird murders as Adelaide!

You might be overly concerned Trying. Put it to the back of your mind and concentrate on the 3 'A's, Aptitude, Application, Attitude. Being the best you can will stand you in good stead for any position.

Good luck with your career.

[VH-XXX]

introvert extrovert doesn't matter.

X13IQqeon08

Introvert Extrovert Luke O'Dell X Factor Contestant (http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/introvert-extrovert-or-reality-tv--it-doesnt-matter-20110901-1jn5u.html)

[Ted D Bear]

MBTI is not an instrument which can be validly used for recruitment. (Apart from anything else, it doesn't include lie detectors.) Airlines won't use it as part of a recruitment process - they have plenty of other psychometrics for that. I'd be surprised if any of them were too concerned with whether you have a preference for introversion or extraversion anyway - introversion is perfectly "normal"!

[Pontius]

I cannot speak for the likes of QF but I used to be part of the selection panel for a very large UK airline and am quite familiar with the various tests used. What I can state, categorically, is the results of the tests were never used in isolation. They were only indicators of how a candidate might feel/react/perform. Having seen the results of the 'shrink' test, it was always up to the interviewers to then probe these facets of a candidates personality with specific questions. VERY often you would find the tests suggested something about a person which, on further investigation, would prove false. So it could well be that someone is tending towards Introvert but that would definitely not rule them out. So what if you're naturally a bit quiet. What does matter is what you're going to do when something needs to be said or done. This would be the type of questioning route that you would expect to be followed during an interview; so I'd want to know specific examples of when, for instance, something has gone wrong with a plan and you've intervened to rectify it or when you were part of a group and had to point out to the group leader that they were making a mistake...that sort of thing. Of course, you wouldn't just jump into that question. You'd start off by asking the candidate to tell us about a time they were involved in a group task, what they had to do and the candidates role in it. Having settled that, you'd then further it with questions about how the task progressed etc and then examine the 'going wrong' bits.

There were very often characteristics that needed further examination; lack of empathy, teamwork etc but I can only ever recall one introverted type that was unsuccessful because of this 'trait'. Essentially, he was SO shy, reserved and uncommunicative, that during the interview, when asked ANY question, he simply blushed bright red and didn't utter one word. It was the only interview that I'd ever had to cut short and the only interviewee that I saw the shrink tests get spot on.

In summary, I'd say don't sweat it. Think about times when you've had to speak up and did. That's what's important, not being the gob****e who talks so much nobody else can get a word in.

[outnabout]

Trying:

Forget a personality quiz put together by someone who has no personality.

If you are looking for a reason to make aviation as a career, you'll find 10 of them.
If you are looking for a reason to rule out aviation as a career, you'll find 10 of them.

Do, or do not. There is no try. (To quote Yoda).

But either way, give it your best shot so you have no regrets further down the track.