Shift working and travelling from UK to Aus / NZ

[Quartz-1]

I work shifts and it occurs to me that after completing a night shift, I'm already in the same time zone as Aus and NZ. Which would make taking a holiday over there much easier, right? But what about the flights out and back? I'm already on GMT +12 at the start. Similarly, I'd time it so that I came back for my night shift. Would there be problems?

I would also appreciate advice on travelling to NZ: is it better to go from the UK to Aus and then NZ - a long trip then a short one - or to go via HK - two even trips?

I'd be flying business class - I'm too tall for cattle class seats on a long haul - if it makes any difference.

[Gibon2]

Interesting idea - could work well. The flights from UK to (east coast) Aust/NZ are about 23/26 hours respectively, if done with a reasonable connection. So if your body clock was already at GMT+12, you'd essentially go through a full 24-hour cycle on the trip and arrive nicely aligned with the local time.

For travel from UK to NZ, I daresay our moderator TightSlot will be along shortly to give you every conceivable detail, but in the meantime I can say that in my own experience the two long legs are better than going to Sydney or Melbourne and then doing the 3-hour hop across the Tasman. If you do the latter, you essentially end up doing two long legs and then a short one - even if the second long leg is only 8-9 hours rather than 12, it's not that much difference (it's still a tedious long bloody flight) - whereas adding another 3-hour flight (with all the hassle of the layover, etc) really makes a difference. Of course, if you actually want to stop in Aust for a while, then this option is perfectly sensible.

If you're going J-class, I'd suggest Singapore Airlines via SIN, Cathay via HKG, or AirNZ via HKG or LAX (you can go either way around with AirNZ, or do a round-the-world). If you want to go via Aust, then Emirates would be your best bet, although Qantas will also work (if not on strike).

Let us know how you get on with the body clock synchronisation.

[Hartington]

There's more to jetlag than simply shifting time zones but I would imagine being on +12 will help a little.

As for how to get there in business; Air NZ. They operate daily via Los Angeles and depending on time of year 4-7 times a week through Hong Kong. Their return fare to AKL usually allows you to go either way. They also allow stops in both places. In fact, depending on how long you've got if you're prepared to find your own way from Los Angeles to San Francisco they fly from SFO to AKL as well so you can fly LHR/HKG/AKL/SFO drive or train or buy another flight along the coast then LAX/LON. We did it a few years ago and found them extremely good.

[Quartz-1]

Interesting idea - could work well. The flights from UK to (east coast) Aust/NZ are about 23/26 hours respectively, if done with a reasonable connection. So if your body clock was already at GMT+12, you'd essentially go through a full 24-hour cycle on the trip and arrive nicely aligned with the local time.

My thoughts precisely, so it's what happens when I'm aboard the plane that is the subject of this thread. Will someone who is already on NZ time be an issue?

or AirNZ via HKG or LAX (you can go either way around with AirNZ, or do a round-the-world).

Now that's an idea, but I probably won't be able to take a month off.

If you want to go via Aust, then Emirates would be your best bet, although Qantas will also work (if not on strike).

Ooh! :)

Let us know how you get on with the body clock synchronisation.

I'm still very much in the 'thinking about it' stage.

[PAXboy]

What happens on board will depend a little bit but if you make it clear that you want to sleep and NOT be disturbed for meals until you wake - then no probs.

Fasten your seat belt over your blanket and away you go. The carrier web pages should give good details of the time of each sector. For example, LAX or SFO are usually +/- 12 hours wheels-to-wheels from LHR so time to sleep, wake naturally, eat and be ready. Also, whether you can eat on demand, or simply snack on demand.

[L'aviateur]

Firstly try to chose an airline with full flat beds, none of this angle lie flat garbage.

Then think about the time zone before you fly, and whichever sector is the daytime flight according to Aus time then stay awake on that flight and whichever sector is the nighttime flight get onboard and sleep, ignoring meals etc.
This tends to work unless the whole cabin is kept fully illuminated with windowshades open...

[TightSlot]

I daresay our moderator TightSlot will be along shortly to give you every conceivable detail
I tend to try and stay away from these kind of threads, since I clearly have a conflict of interest working as I do for the best airline in the world on these routes...



:E

[Quartz-1]

Perhaps you could avoid the which and concentrate on the what and the how?

I mean, when I'm on the night shift, I'm up at 17:30 for my start at 19:00 and leave work at 07:00. Then I'll have a flight from ABZ to LHR or LGW and then check-in which means that I won't be on the international flight before noon, so I'll likely have been up over 18 hours, and very much looking forward to some sleep. But it seems to me that I stand a very good chance of waking to find the cabin in darkness - you have pre-determined sleep times, don't you? And I'm wondering if that's going to cause problems.

[Hartington]

It's all very well coming off shift in the morning and setting out then BUT if you go eastabout most of the flights leave Europe in the evening just as you start to wake up again! Yes, you can get a flight from Aberdeen to Dubai via Frankurt (wake up to change) just after 0900 but that gets to Dubai just before Midnight (you're waking up) and the flight to Auckland leaves at 1010 next morning and is overnight to Auckland with 1 en route stop and while part of that flight might be when you want to sleep it won't be all the way and you will probably be out of synch with many other pax and the meal service.

I don't always sleep on daytime flights in business but I'm sometimes surprised how much sleep I do manage to get when I'm supposed to be awake. For example this summer on BA LHR/SEA I got several hours.

So, in the end, I'm not sure the idea is going to do much good. I'd just buy whatever flights you fancy and sleep as mauch as you can whenever you can. Me, I'd still go with ANZ.

[RevMan2]

Split the flight into 2 legs of more or less equal length.
I find a late departure from FRA to BKK and then a connection onto TG a few hours later works well.
(As does LH to LAX and then either QF or NZ later that evening. Disadvantage here is that you arrival sparrow's fart, whereas TG gets you in early afternoon and it'd easier to slip into the time zone)

[Bealzebub]

It is a nice idea in theory, but in practice it is all fairly meaningless.

When you are working your shifts, you come home to your own quiet, familiar, comfortable bed. You control the environment and the timing.

On the (at least) 25 hour flight to the antipodes you are going to control very little. With the best will in the world, there will be cabin announcements and services. People brushing past you, constant background noise, pressure discomfort, clothing discomfort, unsatisfactory temperatures, dehydrating atmospherics, and changing odours.

None of this will be conducive to adequate rest, and although you will fall asleep when you are sufficiently tired, the resulting sleep is likely to be fractious and inadequate compared to what you are used to.

The comforts afforded by business class or first class will certainly mitigate the onset of fatigue, but in truth you are not going to eliminate it on a flight of this duration.

I did this same trip (as a shift worker) back in May and travelled around the world (Eastbound) in Business class. I broke the journey in half there and back by checking into an airport hotel in Hong Kong and Los Angeles. Obviously that adds two days to the journey, but it does allow you to take sleep in a quiet comfortable bed and to shower and feel human again.

Nevertheless after half a day in an aircraft you are not going to arrive at your destination or at home before you soon feel ready for a proper bed again.

If you can afford it, pay the money to travel in the most comfortable class available. Break the journey with a real bed and bathroom, and somewhere you don't have to sleep in your clothes, with all 5 of your primary senses being sporadically assaulted.

It won't work out perfectly, but it is about as good as it gets.

[Quartz-1]

It is a nice idea in theory, but in practice it is all fairly meaningless.

Thanks. Not what I wanted to hear, but what I needed to hear.

[MathFox]

First of all, a 24 hour trip in a plane is tiring! Business is significantly better than Economy and I've found that every hour of sleep you get counts to how you feel on arrival. Arriving in the afternoon or evening is best, as you can head straight to your hotel room for sleep and a shower.
Anyway: plan 2 days of recovery when you arrive home... catching up on sleep and life, you are lucky if you arrive in half-decent shape.

[sea oxen]

Bealzebub makes two very good points:
* taking the best class of travel you can afford; and
* breaking your journey.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been asleep after takeoff on the the night flight from LHR (having changed my sleeping patterns well in advance), only to awaken four hours later to find a darkened cabin full of slumbering people, so here I am, bright-eyed and bushy tailed with nothing to do for eight hours before our pit stop.

Why is it that I have to drag myself out of bed after nine very pleasant hours of weekend sleep, but I cannot sleep on a long haul flight? I can even doze on the Underground, which must be the closest thing to Y class or live animal exports.

Splitting your trip means two 'Thank God' experiences. You say you're a tall man - there's nothing better than stretching out on crisp linen sheets, and you'll be in a better frame of mind for when you reach the fair shores of Australia and East Australia :}

If I had the choice, I'd hop across the States, have a furlough in LA, down to NZ, across to Australia, and then dash for home.

[rgsaero]

I've done London / New Zealand about 30 times and I've tried almost every carrier / routing.

By far the best in my view is LHR/ Hong Kong / Auckland on Air NZ. (I won't bother with anyone else henceforth!) It's about the shortest, premium economy is very nice and not expensive, the service is excellent and the brief stop in Hong Kong is easy, unlike LA which is dreadful if you go that way round. Departs LHR @ 21.30(ish) and arrives AKL 11.15) In my experience, going via Oz just takes longer, and for no benefit and one more stop.

[PAXboy]

rgsaero, I am interested in this thread as I am planning to go to NZ next year and is a trip I have never made. Current thought is to go out with ANZ (either PE or Biz) but via LAX. That is, I am not planning to break the journey but get the through flight. My undestanding is that, for transit pax, it's a simple 'bounce' and you remain on board during the refuel? Setting aside the slightly extra duration of this route from the HKG, is there anything else about the LAX stop that is important to know? Many thanks.

[LondonPax]

I'd second the advice to break the journey. I recently flew LHR to SYD via SIN, and instead of just the one-hour layover I've done in the past I actually spent the night in Singapore. It made a big difference. It helps that Singapore is super-efficient and the journey form the airport into town and vice versa is quick. I wouldn't try that at LHR!

[Nervous SLF]

PAXboy, I first went through LA transit lounge in 1984 and it was the worst one ever. Again in 1991 and it had not changed one bit. I have spoken to several people over the years and they all say the same, the last of whom used it this year. No-one was allowed to stay on the aircraft. Hong Kong is superb, so clean and a great airport to visit, well IMHO.

[Pohutu]

I too would vote for Air NZ. I fly between the UK and NZ frequently, and having tried various options now don't really consider anyone else. I personally find straight through with no layover suits me, I find laying over just prolongs the agony, but I think it depends on your own personal preference. For the OP, trying to take advantage of effectively already being on a different time zone, I would have thought that a layover would make things worse.

PAXBboy
As to the HK / LAX dilemma, it's certainly true that HK is a far nicer transit stop, although LAX is much improved to what it once was. You have to get off the plane come what may. If you go biz, at LAX you have the choice of clearing full immigration and going to the biz lounge, or you can go into the transit lounge / cattle pen. I did the latter for the first time this year, and it was better than I had feared, with comfy seats, internet access and some food and drink available. Having said that, transiting at LA is never going to be a relaxing, life-enhancing experience.

If you're thinking of going PE, though, then Air NZ via LAX is in my opinion absolutely your best option. If you choose your flights carefully (they are only available on the 777-300), you will get their new space seats, which are fantastic, much the best PE I've come across. At the moment, they are only using them on the LAX routing, though that may change by the time you go, as I think they are rolling them out as they get more aircraft.

[PAXboy]

Thanks for the info. I had presumed that, once at the gate in LAX, I could put the seat back and iPod through the stop. Grrr. However, the routing suits me very well and I'll think about the Biz lounge but probably not worth the hassle. I don't want to layover, much better to get there and relax at destination.

It will be PE or Biz, depending on the small matter of money! However, I also have to think of my travelling companion and how much she can afford to pay. From all that I have seen, the NZ 'PE' is certainly top of it's class.

The next ponder for me is, returning BA Biz from Sydney which means two singles, or flipping back to Auckland for the return! In which case, I would certainly try the HKG route and consider the layover as I would like to see the place again some 17 years on.

[MrSoft]

Couple of suggestions to add.

First, in my experience going with EK from the UK 'feels' more like 2 flights not 3 if you take the Sydney routing (A380). The stopover in Syd is very user friendly, with a dedicated transit security area that's close the incoming gate, and an EK lounge literally next door to security. I have found this quite welcome for a quick shower and stretch of the legs before the last 2:30 to Akl.

Second, if pennies are to be saved in J then I recommend Finnair. If you try Finnair on a straight UK-NZ-UK return then it's expensive. But, if you try some multi-legs eg. UK-NZ outbound, then Aus-UK on the return, there are some amazing fares available at least some parts of which will involve BA metal. The non BA metal bits will be either CX or AY, both fine airlines. In fact personally I prefer AY to BA anyway. So for travellers such as PaxBoy who actively want to do a NZ out/Aus back routing, this is worth a look.

[rgsaero]

Paxboy - been out of touch but re: yours of 31st - HK is not a "layover" just a 90 - 120 minute stop for refuel and recrew. HK is pleasant and restaurants etc available. LAX is in my experience an appalling experience and I would go any other route to avoid it! Once out of the a/c you end up in a single large room with no access to anything other than a grumpy coffee machine, and you still have to go thru' the "third degree" with the immigration people.. Maybe that's changed in the last couple of years, but....

HK is the far easier and more comfortable transit in my experience.