Dreamliner

[DX Wombat]

According to the BBC lunchtime news (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15456914) the Dreamliner has made its first passenger flight only three years late - landing in Hong Kong. Is such a long production delay likely to affect sales?

[Duchess_Driver]

There have been a few cancelled orders due to the delays, but in all honesty I don't think it will make much difference to the overall state of play. Over 1,000 already ordered I believe.

[kbrockman]

Short googlesearch revealed 797 on order, 266x789 and 531x788,
It used to be over 900 but they have suffered some cancellations due to
delay issues and economic changes at certain customers.

They where stating 20% saving numbers over its competitors, not sure
if they mean overall operating costs or fuel burn alone.

[vctenderness]

Am I right in thinking that British launch customer was First Choice and they have now cancelled?

Did Virgin order any as well?

[AndoniP]

I believe some customers cancelled orders and switched to leasing / purchasing 777s instead.

[Chidken Sangwich]

First Choice orders were rolled over into Thomson Airways orders, or at least replaced orders that Thomson were going to make.

First one is due in service Sep 2012.

[Sprogster]

Monarch cancelled their 787 orders, citing focus going forward on European scheduled ops.

[Tarisio]

Thomson delivery date now Jan 2013. When is BA getting its first 787?

[Dream Buster]

People,

The ONLY reason the B 787 is so vital to the industry and which so few people (even so called 'experts') seem to understand is that 'AS THE B 787 DOES NOT USE BLEED AIR ARCHITECTURE - IT CAN'T POISON IT'S CREW OR CUSTOMERS'.

AerotoxicSyndrome's Channel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/AerotoxicSyndrome#p/u/16/9fNaC6m6WoU)

Boeing have a 10 year lead on Airbus and ~ 800 ORDERS.

WHEN ARE PEOPLE FINALLY GOING TO WORK THE REASON OUT?

[NWSRG]

Boeing have today announced that the accounting block (the number of airframes over which project costs are split) will be 1100...a massive number in comparison to other programmes.

Undoubtedly they have made serious mistakes in the execution of this programme, but you have to admire their conviction in being prepared to do things differently. No doubt, the 787 will be a winner for the airlines, and hopefully in the longer term, for Boeing too.

Also, the problems that Boeing have had with the 787 should ensure the the 797 (whatever that may be) comes to fruition with much less pain.

Glad to see her finally earning money...

Dreambuster, I suspect that Boeing's 800 orders for the 787 have little to do with non-toxic cabin air. It might be a plus point for the aircraft, but not one that swings sales campaigns...what about the 500 orders that the bleed-air A350 has won?

[Dream Buster]

NWRSG - In 1999 when Aerotoxic Syndrome was first proposed by US, French and Australian scientists. It was then that Boeing decided to return to the outside compressed air system of the B 707 - you will find all the scientific papers from the mid 1950's onwards which convinced them that they had no other option.

Terry Williams settlement against Boeing (http://www.aerotoxic.org/news-and-articles/643-terry-williams-settlement-against-boeing)

Airbus will follow Boeing one day, as they can't cope with this sort of media:
Accident: Lufthansa A320 near Zurich on Oct 21st 2011, acrid smell in galley (http://avherald.com/h?article=444d7d4b&opt=0)

Would you rather fly in a 787 or a 350?

It's a no brainer - if you understand the published facts.

[NWSRG]

Dreambuster,

Bleedless is a great idea, and will no doubt make for a more pleasant journey. There may well indeed be much evidence that bleed is a health issue, and I have sympathy with that view.

I'm only debating your point that the bleedless approach is why Boeing have 800 orders...again, if so, why does the A350 have 500 orders? :ok:

[TURIN]

D/Buster

Not all bleed systems poison the air.
Don't believe the hype.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Not all bleed air poisons, but the very real effects on many people, including people controlling the aircraft whilst in the air are not to be sniffed at (geddit?) :rolleyes: Faulty seals, faulty filters, bad practices all likely causes. Let's hope that the number of incidences reduce and that the 787 can start a new era regarding aircraft/passenger health.

[PAXboy]

You have to admire Boeing for creating the name 'Dreamliner' and promoting it to the public as if it's something special.

YES the air handling system IS special but the pax are not going to know much about that. Because, if they are told why bleedless is (potentially) so good - they would have to explain why everything else has blled air.

So, all credit to them for continually getting the stupid and meaningless name of the 787 into the public eye. Very few would have been interested in '787' but the very clever marketing word has done a BIG trick for them. Congrats to the marketing people who thought it up and their single minded approach for the 787 is just another big long range twin. oh and it's NOT a pretty plane to look at either.

[Rollingthunder]

Also, the problems that Boeing have had with the 787 should ensure the the 797 (whatever that may be) comes to fruition with much less pain.

I never buy the first model year of anything and in this case, if I were thinking of buying, would wait until the fourth year. Let's see how it does in service.

[Exascot]

Boeing 787 Dreamliner: on board the plastic plane - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/8850866/Boeing-787-Dreamliner-on-board-the-plastic-plane.html)

A nice little write up by a layman, albeit an extremely well traveled one.

We know the author, indeed he was kind enough to write an excellent foreword and took the front cover photo for our island guide book.

[MidlandDeltic]

A nice little write up by a layman, albeit an extremely well traveled one.

Read more like a Boeing press release to me! Especially the bit about composites not suffering fatigue - as debunked by one of the comments below the article. True they don't show gradual cracking as a rule - but can shatter without warning.

And I don't think the long haul will only seat the implied 158 (264-106) unless there is a ridiculous imbalance re F/C/Y.

MD

[surely not]

Toxic air could induce a sleep so deep you dream couldn't it?

I think I am much more worried about the wing box problems and wiring faults than I am about the air on board!

How is Boeing 10 years ahead? It might have been if the 787 had flown on time but it didn't and Airbus is catching up fast with the A350 and airlines cancelling 787 and going to the A330 to fill near term needs.

Airlines worry about bottom line, and the air quality is not a major factor in their choosing one aircraft over another, but operating costs certainly are.

The 787 is supposed to be aimed at ultra long range thin demand city pairs, yet none of the cabin designs have any areas set aside for passengers to exercise and reduce the threat of DVT....................

[11Fan]

none of the cabin designs have any areas set aside for passengers to exercise and reduce the threat of DVT

Airline Customers have the option of ordering the wing balcony. There, not only can passengers roam freely, there will also be a smoking section.

Windbreakers provided at no extra charge. Hold on tight.

[DX Wombat]

:)11Fan, that reminds me of a little cotton bag filled with herbs airfreshner I once had for my car. I was driving the seven years old daughter of friends home from her piano lesson one day when she started giggling - the reason? The wording on the bag was something like "Persons wishing to smoke may use the roof rack". :E "But you don't have a roof rack Auntie Wombat do you?" She thought this was hilarious - well she was only seven years old.

[FlightPathOBN]

take a close look at the tail section of the 787..

its the oddest looking thing, like the took the design from the fin of an Orca or something...

(and the paint job makes it look like it has a fat butt)

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/files/2011/10/787-tail.jpg

[dazdaz1]

Nice ass, maybe I should 'get a life':uhoh: