FoF - International Travel

[TheSwaami]

I was not sure whether to put this in the SLF thread (I have read through the intro - but my FoF is a bit different) or in the Spotter's thread, so decided to put it in here. If this is in the wrong place, pls. feel free to move it.

Admittedly, I have just joined this forum recently as a way to get rid of my fear of flying, which has suddenly crept over me after the AF 447 accident. For me, I figure nothing would be more reassuring than chatting with pilots and how they get on with the job.

I have got over the fear of domestic flying, becoming more comfortable with every flight in a 737! Now, due to business reasons, I am now required to travel internationally (especially from SFO to Indian cities like MAA, HYD etc.). The most convenient airlines to travel would seem to be LH, BA and EK. So now, I have question on a couple of things:

1) While I have traveled with BA earlier, it was in a 777. However, BA only offers a 744 from SFO. My main question is, what kind of measures have BA/LH/United taken after the TWA 800 accident? I perused through this forum, but couldn't get an answer that I could grasp clearly, except for the fact that inerting tanks were too expensive a solution. Hasn't the 744 been a victim of fire-related incidents more recently as well? And being the old aircraft that it is, wouldn't it be more prone to wiring-related fires (I understand that aircraft get taken apart etc, but not sure how thorough these checks are)...it scares me as to how many mechanical incidents (i.e., non-pilot error related) the 747 has been in :ooh:

2) I have never travelled via Emirates, but what I've read on this forum about pilot fatigue at EK admittedly scares me, especially when I note that accidents such as AIX last year etc. were due to pilot fatigue doing late night flying. Is this really the issue as compared to other airlines? Or has Emirates done something to alleviate this problem? What if the flight was during daytime (between DXB and the Indian cities)? Does it really affect the Ultra Long Haul from SFO as well?

Apologies if I have overlooked at material that has been posted before, but long-haul flying scares me, and I am admittedly looking for some answers that may be reassuring (especially from BA, LH, United or Emirates folks since I may be most likely flying one of them to the subcontinent)...:)

Thanks guys!

[PAXboy]

I'm a non-expert witness but ... the 747 centre tank problem has been dealt with by (as I recall and subject to confirmation):


Changing the cabling that supported the tanks' sensors
Changing the way fuel is used between wing and centre tanks

TWA 800 was a 747-100 series and, to the best of my knowledge, there has been no further problem. One of the great things about the 747-400 is the considerable volume of airline experience, with the original machine starting commercial service in Jan 1970 and the -400 in commercial flight from 1989.

I sit to be corrected.

Have never travelled on Emirates so cannot comment.

[Espada III]

I have flown on A330s, A340s, B747s and B777s for medium/long haul.

Without doubt, the most comfortable plane is also the one with the most flying time: the 747-400. As long as you are flying on a major carrier (and you have listed examples of those) you will be fine. In particular LH have upgraded the interior of their 744s and they are a great ride.

[TheSwaami]

Thanks PAXboy! - its good to learn about what kind of measures BA has taken or took so far :ok:

However, this fuel tank problem has occured after TWA 800 as well right? In 737s, if I remember correctly. Which is what made me nervous (if preventative steps were taken or not) :rolleyes:

[PAXboy]

Hi TheSwaami, I have no idea about any other fuel tank issue.

Try searching this site? Aviation Safety Network > (http://aviation-safety.net/index.php)

[Mark in CA]

LH now flies A380 between SFO and FRA, and it is a fantastic ride, even in economy. Much quieter, and therefore less fatiguing, than a 747. Plus the plane is practically brand new.

If you have the $$, I'd recommend taking some flying lessons as a way to overcome your fears. Most people solo within about 13-18 hours of flight time. While this was not my motivation, I found myself much more comfortable flying commercially after I learned to fly a little Cessna.

[TheSwaami]

Thanks for the info Mark - ppreciate it :)

I am not sure though, that flying lessons would help me get over my fear, since its mostly engineering/mechanics related. So, to get over my FoF, I was looking for reassurances at how causes for previous accidents (e.g., TWA 800) were rectified and fixed. Pilot error is a different issue, but then if you fly with a top-notch airline then its not really a problem (unless apparently pilot fatigue occurs - according to some accident reports).

Hope this makes sense!

[Mark in CA]

I know how you feel. For a long while after the DC-10 incident in Chicago, I would not fly that type.

I only half jokingly tell my friends that I like to fly LH because when you get on an aircraft as large and complex as a 747, you want it to be maintained and operated by obsessive compulsives.

But if your fear is about the mechanics of the plane and not the human factors, then you must realize that failures of the former are much rarer than of the latter. These planes really are very robust.

Interestingly, after learning to fly, I also acquired an appreciation for roller coasters.

[QA1]

Google: sfar88

SFAR 88 is the american rule produced as a result, of among others, the TWA incident.

Ironically, more actions have been implemented by maintenance organisations in Europe as a result of SFAR 88 than in the USA :confused:

[TheSwaami]

Thanks for the help & support guys...I guess I haven't heard much about Emirates and that fatigue factor impacting flying...oh well...

Really interested reading up on SFAR 88, but not sure about European agencies being more cautious...I was reading an online pdf document published by an org representing major European Airlines that was AGAINST FAA's proposal to add the inerting system (cost etc. being a major factor).

[Nervous SLF]

TheSwaami, if it is the aircraft that worries you try watching or finding "Air Crash Investigations" a prog on National Geographic channel. They go into full details about crashes caused and most importantly show how future problems of those sorts are being avoided. Myself it is turbulence that gets to me in a bad way.

[Mr Mac]

If you are worried about tech checks on planes than I have been told by LH engineers that they get 1/3rd more than any other carrier when they sell there planes on, although I was told this a few years ago so do not know if that is still the case. I fly with them in Europe and to the old soviet republics and have always found them efficent although some of their aircraft are not up to Emirates / Singapore std in the cabins, but they are being up dated.

As for Emirates have flown with them on a reguler basis since 2000 and have never had an issue with them on any flight I have yet been on. They are a good carrier into India due to destinations served and handy for you with the direct route to SFO although that is a long old flight.

BA I stopped using on a reguler basis a few years ago, and flew with them only twice last year on a shuttle from Man and down to Nairobi on old 777 in Business. Crew were ok, plane old, and IFE dated. Do not know what they use on SFO route (think it maybe 747) and Indian routes appear to be 777 mostly, as that is the planes I have seen when I have been around, although 747 on Delhi / Mumbai.

Best of luck with FOF although I do not think any of the carriers you listed would give you much to worry about. You might find the journey to & from your Indian entry airport to your hotel more of an experiance !!:ok:.