Satellite plunge into China

[Sunny Boyle]

On the way to the Far East today and suddenly over Irkutsk FIR we got a disturbing message from company despatch that from US military intelligence sources a satellite is due to slam down close to our route near Anrat with a window of 0005 UTC to 0405 UTC; WE ARE TO EXERCISE CAUTION! WTF, exercise caution? All attempts to find out further info drew a blank; with the earlier warning message repeated. We were alarmed enough to consider diverting to ZMUB or UIII to wait for confirmation of the slam down...company said no worries, everybody else was continuing. After a long debate and some not too convincing words from PEK ATC, we continued all the time asking for heads up from ATC and preceding aircrafts. Now the big question is; how can one exercise caution and avoid satellite pieces from the blue yonder?

[BOAC]

Keep the roof closed and set up a weave, that will help.

LOVE to know which company sent that gem!

EDIT: Whoops! Nearly forgot - TCAS to TA Only, of course and keep the window blinds down..

[Squealing Pig]

Ar5e covering exercise, 'large flocks of birds in the vicinity of aerodrome' on the ATIS, what are you supposed to do about that either - divert? company will be pleased.

Weak managers passing the buck when sh1t happens.

[A-3TWENTY]

LOVE to know which company sent that gem!

This is typical chinese. When they don`t know what to say , they say that.

I bet it is a chinese cia.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

I suggest the following Notam:

BE AWARE THAT SIX MILLION METRIC TONS OF COSMIC DEBRIS ENTER EARTH ATMOSPHERE EACH YEAR AT SPEEDS IN EXCESS OF 10 KILOMETERS PER SECOND. USE CAUTION.

Meaning: When you see it coming towards you, you are already dead. Therefore you should trust your sixth sense and excercise maximum G evasive action, whenever the FORCE tells you to.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Read about it yesterday, a big German Satellite due to fall, same as the other week, no idea of time or where.
However they did say larger lumps of what's left, would fall this time compared with the one the other week. :uhoh:

[B737NG]

The message type sounds like the Sunday morning news out of SEL-OCC.

The involvement of China makes the issue "classyfied" I love it when you are distant to it and do not have your butt close to all that BX. Safety and Security Normal ?

[FlexibleResponse]

Now the big question is; how can one exercise caution and avoid satellite pieces from the blue yonder?

It is not possible to exercise caution in this type of event especially without specific and precise information.

The message was sent, not for your possible usage in any form, but rather to merely soothe the consciences of those who sent it to you.

[rans6andrew]

exactly how many track miles on the earth surface does the satellite cover in 4 hours?

Was it geostationary? Even if it was, it won't be when it drops out of orbit. I wonder what the re-entry velocity will be.

With a window of opportunity that wide a notam just won't cover the situation.

Just keep your tin hat on.

[glhcarl]

On the way to the Far East today and suddenly over Irkutsk FIR we got a disturbing message from company despatch that from US military intelligence sources a satellite is due to slam down close to our route near Anrat with a window of 0005 UTC to 0405 UTC; WE ARE TO EXERCISE CAUTION! WTF, exercise caution?

I would EXERCISE CAUTION around the company you work for. Since they don't know that is not a US military intelligence satellite but a German research satellite that is deorbiting, when it has been in the news for the last week!

[barit1]

1) If it's geostationary, it ain't gonna decay and fall. At least, not for many many many millions of years.

2) There is a sorta reasonable evasive plan: Since the orbital ground track is a known quantity, simply avoid or minimize flight in that (location-time) zone.

All this is of course minimizing the already-insignificant risk. :rolleyes:

[flydive1]

I would EXERCISE CAUTION around the company you work for. Since they don't know that is not a US military intelligence satellite but a German research satellite that is deorbiting, when it has been in the news for the last week!I would exercise caution and read it again if I was you, nowhere it says it is a US military satellite;)

[misd-agin]

Make sure TCAS is in the lookup 'ABOVE' mode.

Gives you an additional 4000-5000' of warning. :ok:

[cwatters]

I believe this was the ROSAT. NASA say it's down.

Defunct German space telescope ROSAT completes death plunge back to Earth | NASASpaceFlight.com (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/10/defunct-german-space-telescope-rosat-death-plunge-earth/)


Interest was high in ROSAT due to its primary mirror, which held the potential of surviving the break up of the spacecraft in the atmosphere during entry. So far, no reports of debris hitting the ground have been reported.

snip

Weighing roughly 400 kg, this mirror was made of high-temperature resistant materials, namely glass ceramics, which led to engineers noting it had the potential to survive entry, thus becoming a threat to land.

snip

Although the precise area where ROSAT finally succumbed to Entry has yet to be accurately plotted, the German Aerospace Center (DLR) have noted that Entry will have occurred between 01:45 GMT and 02:15 GMT on Sunday morning.

Scientist says falling German satellite must have crashed into SE-Asia, no debris reported yet - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/scientists-try-to-determine-fate-of-german-satellite-that-returned-to-earth/2011/10/23/gIQAbn1x8L_story.html)

Scientist says falling German satellite must have crashed into SE-Asia, no debris reported yet

A defunct German research satellite crashed into Earth on Sunday somewhere in Southeast Asia and several parts must have survived re-entering the atmosphere before hitting the surface at a speed of up to 280 mph (450 kph), scientists said.

snip

The satellite used to circle the planet in about 90 minutes, and it may have traveled several thousand kilometers during the time window of its estimated re-entry into the atmosphere, rendering exact predictions of where it must have crashed difficult.


Looks like you might out run it if you see it heading your way :-)

[FirstStep]

Two (2) miles offset right of track should be sufficient. If you still get hit, you can't say it was for lack of trying.

[fmgc]

a satellite is due to slam down close to our route near Anrat with a window of 0005 UTC to 0405 UTC; WE ARE TO EXERCISE CAUTION! WTF, exercise caution?

That is one of the funniest things I think that I have ever heard in aviation. Surely it must have been somebody with their tongue in their cheek???

It is not possible to exercise caution in this type of event especially without specific and precise information.

Thanks for that little gem of intelligence! :ugh:

[awblain]

About 75,000 miles.

You should have been fairly safe in Irkutsk. At almost 53 deg N, that was the maximum northerly extent of ROSAT's orbit. Although, the debris would have approached you from right behind.

[flynerd]

From the FAA website..

FDC 1/9172 - .. SPECIAL NOTICE .. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL
1110252359 UTC.
AIRCRAFT ARE ADVISED THAT A POTENTIAL HAZARD MAY OCCUR DUE TO REENTRY
OF THE SATELLITE ROSAT INTO THE EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE.
THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION (FAA) IS WORKING WITH THE
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE (DOD) AND THE NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE
ADMINISTRATION (NASA) TO ENSURE THAT THE MOST CURRENT RE-ENTRY
INFORMATION IS PROVIDED TO OPERATORS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
FURTHER NOTAMS WILL BE ISSUED IF SPECIFIC INFORMATION BECOMES
AVAILABLE INDICATING A UNITED STATES (US) AIRSPACE IMPACT. IN THE
INTEREST OF FLIGHT SAFETY, IT IS CRITICAL THAT ALL PILOTS/FLIGHT CREW
MEMBERS REPORT ANY OBSERVED FALLING SPACE DEBRIS TO THE APPROPRIATE
ATC FACILITY AND INCLUDE POSITION, ALTITUDE, TIME, AND DIRECTION OF
DEBRIS OBSERVED.
THE DOMESTIC EVENTS NETWORK /DEN/ TELEPHONE 202-493-5107, IS THE FAA
COORDINATION FACILITY. WIE UNTIL UFN. CREATED: 21 OCT 10:47 2011

Makes one really wonder just how quick the FAA DoD and Nasa could work together and pass on useful/relevant info in such matters.

FN

[two green one prayer]

An uncle of mine who survived a tour in bomber command had some advice that might be relevant in the present situation. One night he was peacefully flying across Germany and minding his own business when tracer from a night fighter started overtaking him. Disregarding the clear warning that trying to flick roll a Lancaster full of bombs would break the wings off he did exactly that. Emboldened by the presence of two seemingly intact wings he decided to also ignore the warning that vertical dives at full power would also be harmful to his aeroplane. This got rid of the night fighter and he was able to complete the sortie.
So there you are, modern pilots in your electronic aluminium tubes. Flick roll. TOGA and pull out gently when the debris has passed.
My respects to a very gallant gentleman who made the war seen like fun to a ten year old.
BTW. If this doesn't work for you don't pm me to complain.

[Espada III]

Hasn't a 747 been flick-rolled? When the Kenyan attempted to hijack the plane with Bryan Ferry and Jemima Khan on board? Even if only by accident?

[fdr]

Herr B737NG:
The message type sounds like the Sunday morning news out of SEL-OCC.

Nope, the message was both understandable, and in a single language so probably no chance of coming form SEL OCC...

"Dear Captains, today is nice. Please have hot cooperation..... it is spring..."

:)

[FlexibleResponse]

FirstStep

Satellite Avoidance
Two (2) miles offset right of track should be sufficient. If you still get hit, you can't say it was for lack of trying.

The most intelligent and useful comment on this thread! :)

[lomapaseo]

Well you could always change altitude to get above it

[mach2.6]

Yeah, no sweat, just keep your mach up and jink a lot.

[JumpJumpJump]

Those clever guys who only fly MS flight sim have once more failed to add any pertinent information. From my memory, you could use Slew Mode and drag the aircraft up to FL99999999. that should get you over it. Yet to find out where to do that on the FMS though.