Shell Southern North Sea Contract 2012

[Rigging Pin]

Scotsheli - Only time will tell but I am confident DanCopter will start flying the SNS Shell from 1st of July onwards.

It will definitely not be Bristow :E

RP

[mazdadriver]

I'm probably just being dim, as usual, but I think the expected, and correct, answers to Scotsheli's question would be one of the following two:-

"Yes, we will have four double crewed machines on 1st July"

"No, we will not have four double crewed machines on 1st July"

Rigging pin's statement that "I am confident DanCopter will start flying the SNS Shell from 1st of July onwards" is not one of the above, and could be proven to be true simply by flying one flight only on 1st July. RP leaves us enormous room for to form a misunderstanding! Is he prepared to honour us with a correct answer???

[lowfat]

Aaaw..
You spoiled the surprise...:ugh:

I was waiting until the CHC machines turned up to see what all the Dancopter can cope guys would say....:rolleyes:

Its no fun any more...:{

[EESDL]

so I guess using CHC to fulfill commitment in early days if unable to get to full strength in time could be called "Plan B"?

[Rigging Pin]

@ Mazadriver - "RP leaves us enormous room for to form a misunderstanding! Is he prepared to honour us with a correct answer???"
There won't be any correct answers until July 1st has gone by. I only give my opinion on what I think is going to happen.

DanCopter will start July 1st... Maybe on their own.. maybe with help from CHC, Bond, Bel Air, Atlantic Airways and let's throw in NHV as well. :ok:

Sorry for Bristow (Read - sorry for their pilots, engineers and support staff)
Too bad management has :mad: up.

RP

[mazdadriver]

Thanks for the answer, RP, I appreciate it. So it's clear now that your statements, which you write in a very definitive manner, are not based on some shred of fact or rumours you've acquired from a reliable source, but instead are simply your own speculations you've dreamt up and hence are based on nothing.

As a result, I infer that (double-negative alert!) you definitely don't know it "will definitely not be Bristow"! Cheers, for my renewed sense of optimism:)

[Epiphany]

If Shell award a contract to a small operator at the 11th hour and expect them to start at 2 bases with full crewing in the space of a few weeks then they only have themselves to blame if the start up does not run to plan.

It is not possible to simply open a box of fully trained new pilots and engineers. Even those from the existing operator who have been offered jobs have apparently been held to their 3 month notice period and are therefore unable to start until October. A company does not simply hire 20 new pilots with the prospect that they might be awarded a contract. They hire them once the contract is awarded.

The Doomsayers on here will no doubt crawl back into their crewrooms after the 1st July (and I note that these are the same people who predicted that Dancopter would have no airframes for the contract). Maybe Dancopter will start with help from elsewhere - I have no idea - but I will bet that they will make a success of the contract.

And of course we all know that BHL and CHC never have any problems.

[Swinging Rotor]

The reason they don´t have enough pilots (if that is the akilles heel) could be that they offered a pretty bad deal for those pilots wanting to join them. A pre-decided bag of money, think around 30 000 euros, that should cover everything from transport, lodging to cost of EC155 typerating.

Those who did the math came up short even if they would have made it within the minimum hours required.

dude, you dont get experienced pilots to pay for their own typerating on the North Sea, get real.

[Epiphany]

Maybe you were one of the many who did not pass the Dancopter pilot selection tests?

[lowfat]

Bristows still have work out of Norwich . While any work lost is a cause for concern it was not the only contract.

I expected Dancopters "Can do" philosophy to be stretched in the early days but Isn't getting someone else to " Can do" the work streeeeetching it a bit far after all that has been said on here.

I leave for my learned friends to decide my Lud.

[Epiphany]

Lowfat. Have you heard of a quaint little rule called 'Flight and Duty Time Limits'?

If pilot numbers are an issue - which is clearly not Dancopters fault - then even with the best will in the world and a 'can do' attitude, Dancopter cannot crew the aircraft until adequate numbers have been employed.

What is your problem?

[Swinging Rotor]

Epiphany:

the question to your answer is no, I have not applied for Dancopter or been rejected.

Is that the only reason you think anyone could possibly make the statement I did ? Kind of a cheap shot from you.

I stand by my comment, the deal they offered was really bad and quite unworthy of a Danish major league operator (as they are now).

But I wish them the best of luck, their salary is up to industry standard and they have a good equal time roster.

I at least think it´s a blow to Dancopter´s reputation that they cannot start the contract first of July as first announced.

Standing on the sideline watching I think the whole transition from Bristow to Dancopter was sloppy work, way to tight on time and all major decisions being taken in the absolute last minute. But I leave it to Shell (managemnt) to draw conculsions of this :)

[Epiphany]

Why would there be any reflection of Dancopters reputation? The blame lies entirely with Shell. If they had awarded the contract with sufficient time for the new contractor to prepare then there would have been no problem. Shell know this which is why Dancopter still have the contract and will within a few months be performing as they would have been had the contract been awarded 6 months ago and not 6 weeks ago.

Of course it would have been easier for BHL as they already have the infrastructure and crews in place. Unfortunately for BHL Shell decided otherwise. Unfortunately for Shell they awarded the contract at the last minute and will now have to accept a slower start.

In relation to your statement about Dancopter TC's and salary I find it hard to believe that someone who professes to know so much about these things has no interest in joining Dancopter.

[eivissa]

I dont know anything about the awarding process or how much lead time was given to Dancopter, but what I know for sure is that the numbers you mention are false!

The ammount offered by Dancopter for EC155 type training was considerably higher and covered for the training, even if youve been too stupid to pass the test on the first attempt or needed the MCC as well.

Either your "inside contacts" couldnt do the maths (Offer was in Danish Kronen) or they just didnt know what they were talking about!

[lowfat]

Epifany

I have no problem with Dancopter more power to there elbow...

I couldn't careless about duty times, actions not words are the valid discussion at the moment.

They cleary were awarded a contract they cannot do in the time frame it was bid on. Isn't that irresponsible? Falling back on one of the evil corporations slated so often in this thread.

Its like getting the didicoy that tarmacs your drive into build a Motorway. You get what you pay for.

[Epiphany]

Loaf fat,

Clearly you have an axe to grind of some sort and therefore your comprehension and coherence are temporarily challenged so I will leave you to your grinding. Have fun.

[lowfat]

epiphany


a literary work or section of a work presenting, usually symbolically, such a moment of revelation and insight.

Shouldn't that be

epicalyptry

describe concealment from self or resistance to insight.



No axe just an opposed point of view.

[Epiphany]

Wow - you have a dictionary. Pity you don't use it more often.

I couldn't careless about duty times, actions not words are the valid discussion at the moment.


Dancopter do care about duty times fortunately which is why they need to employ more pilots for the Shell SNS contract. Most qualified NS pilots have a 3 month notice period to work so cannot start on 1st July. How can Dancopter employ these pilots if they are not given at least 3 months notice of succesful bid?

They cleary were awarded a contract they cannot do in the time frame it was bid on. Isn't that irresponsible? Falling back on one of the evil corporations slated so often in this thread.

Dancopter bid for the contract along with others in the time frame allocated by Shell. The irresponsibility lies with not informing the succesful bidder in sufficient time for them to prepare for the start of the contract. How is that the fault of Dancopter? No company has 5 spare airframes and 20 spare pilots waiting for a possible contract award. Not even BHL.

I am not employed by Dancopter but know the company and know that the criticism levelled at them by yourself and others here is not justified.

No axe just an opposed point of view.

By all means have an opposing point of view. Just tell me WHY you think Dancopter is at fault?

[lowfat]

So Dancopter are not culpable and it is all Shells Fault?

I'll get my coat.

[JulieAndrews]

Swinging Rotor
Atleast on the topic of paying for TR I think you have been mis-informed....
No pilot that I know of has had to buy their own type-rating as part of DC employment. DC paid the provider direct with my case.
They might have asked at the outset but quickly realised that was not the way forward?

[Epiphany]

Before you get your coat just tell me why you think that Dancopter are culpable? You have been vocal enough but your ramblings have not stated a logical argument and I cannot see why you have not. Unless of course your only purpose in posting here is to wind people up

[Rigging Pin]

@ MazdaDriver - I hate to ruin your "renewed sense of optimism" but my statements are based on info received from different sources, my own experiences and sometimes even facts, which all together form my opinion.
My "definitely not Bristow" statement arises from the facts Bristow has informed their staff they lost SNS Shell, they are making EC155 crews etc. redundant and they have 2 out of 3 EC155's for sale..... Hence my conclusion :8

RP

[jymil]

Last thing I heard from Dancopter is that they dont consider you for a job if you dont have the right typerating.

[212_Nightdipper]

Thats right....I've applied from their website and thats what i got for answer....gotta have AW139, EC155 or EC225's rating to be considered.....:ugh:

[SNI]

Let's see how many people I can wind up with my new comment.... (Again form solid sources, so don't question my credibility :rolleyes:)

Dancopter has managed to offer more payload in a their 155 then in Belair's 139, on a similar flight with similar circumstances and conditions. How the hell is that possible? Belair apparently has finally started to complain with the incompetent Danish CAA. Good for them. Go Belair!

Don't shoot the messenger! *putting on bullitproof vest*

Also on a side note, what's the Shell requirement for commanders? Dancopter apparently are taking on direct entry captains with just over 500 hours on type and offshore experience, with less then 2 winters offshore.... :confused:

[Swinging Rotor]

I have it from 3 independent friends/ex colleagues that the money offered by DC for the typerating was not enough. And I trust these guys word for it. And the statement that they would mix up euros and kroner is just stupid.

Maybe the recruitment offer has changed over time, but this what was what offered to them. I thought this was cheap.

And Epiphany, I have the latest DC salary list, so I am pretty well into the subject, thanks for asking. And no, it wasn´t good enough to consider applying. for various reasons (brutto salary not being one of them).

I think the tone of this thread is pretty bad, so I´m not going to contríbute any more.

fly safe guys

[Epiphany]

SNI - you have missed your vocation in life. You should have been a stand-up comedian.

[Jet Ranger]

More pax in 155 then in 139 :ooh:

... Only if you put two on winch and three on hook :E

[SNI]

Why thank you! :ok: And Dancopter should join me on stage as a magician! With Shell in the front row doing: :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Exclusive news for your eyes only by the way: Bristow will do half of Dancopter's flights in July :oh:

Really seems to me as another big bite that they aren't able to chew themselves :( That's 3 out of 4 permanent contracts they have now...

Are you sure you want to continue your job as Dancopter PR manager?

Cheers!

[SNI]

I just read my last post, and oh snap, it's hella funny!

Come on, even you should see that! :O

PS. Now don't be all angry and stuff and try to reveal my identity :=

[Epiphany]

I would much rather be a Dancopter PR manager than a BHL or CHC PR manager and I could never outperform you as a clown. A woefully misinformed clown at that. You are hilarious.

So lets see..... according to all your 'reliable' sources that is CHC, Bristow and Belair all doing Dancopters work for them. Makes me wonder what all the Dancopter machines, pilots and engineers will be doing?

PS. Now don't be all angry and stuff and try to reveal my identity

Is your name CoCo by any chance? Hang on. I remember now - you are the one with the red nose who failed the Dancopter selection last month.

[SNI]

"So lets see..... according to all your 'reliable' sources that is CHC, Bristow and Belair all doing Dancopters work for them. Makes me wonder what all the Dancopter machines, pilots and engineers will be doing?"

Well, like I said, half of the work. :confused:

And misinformed? :rolleyes: Could you please come back here in a few days? I would love to hear you admitting you were wrong. To be clear, I am talking about Den Helder, not Norwich. Don't know about Norwich.

[Epiphany]

Dancopter crews will be pleased to hear that as they can all take some well earned leave from 1st July onwards. That must be why Bristow and CHC are madly recruiting pilots at the moment. Lets hope they get enough in time otherwise Dancopter might have to help them out.

By the way, my reliable sources tell me that Bristow is asking Bristow Australia to provide crews to help them in ABZ as they cannot cope with the workload at the moment. Surely this cannot be true?

[SNI]

Pfff, ok Epiphany, you can have the last word :hmm: Even if it doesn't make any sense or tickles any funny bones.

Have a very good evening my fellow ppruner :rolleyes:

Edit:
Yes, Bristow asking Bristow... Not Bristow asking Dancopter, CHC, Belair, NHV, etc. Boy, your comments are making less and less sense. Better stop now before you really make a fool out of yourself :ugh:

[Rigging Pin]

Bristow to fly for shell out of Den Helder......:rolleyes:

If I had any credibility I lost it all today ->> Quote myself: "My "definitely not Bristow" statement arises from the facts Bristow has informed their staff they lost SNS Shell, they are making EC155 crews etc. redundant and they have 2 out of 3 EC155's for sale..... Hence my conclusion"

So......
Expect the unexpected ? :ugh:
Never say never ? :suspect:

RP:{

[mazdadriver]

RP, nice comment, and we all can (and do) make mistakes. Should I take that as an apology?!

My view is that Bristow's actions were the only ones they could make in response to those of Shell. Not wise to take that as some indication of a policy on the operator's part.

[Rigging Pin]

Don't know if there is a need to apologise because I only gave my opinion :cool:

I wonder if bristow had the balls to ask for a rediculous amount of money to be shell's b*tch again but I doubt it.....:(

[haraldnyborg]

Dancopter has managed to offer more payload in a their 155 then in Belair's 139, on a similar flight with similar circumstances and conditions. How the hell is that possible? Belair apparently has finally started to complain with the incompetent Danish CAA. Good for them. Go Belair!

Maybee you should look at fuelburn a bit, outbound on a flight that takes 1hour and 10 minuttes

The 155 and 139 comes pretty close, im not giving any exacts figures im just saying its close. Inbound its a different story

[terminus mos]

Don't know about the SNS but Bristow has sent 2 EC225s from Australia to UK. VH ZFD is already there and ZFC is on its way and will arrive in 2 weeks.

[RotorSwede]

The AW139 6.8 ver without airco can offer:

1400kg of payload to the customer with 2h of total fuel (1.5h + final reserve).

1000kg of payload to the customer with 3h of total fuel (2.5h + final reserve).

This is perf class 1 numbers for a CHC operation.

Harald, can you give the numbers for the EC? Would be interesting to compare.

I See DC is having a toast ceremony of some kind in Den Helder on Sunday in combination with launching their first flight.
Cheers!

[Epiphany]

Terminus. Thank you for the confirmation.

Sadly there are small-minded posters here who are blinded by their dislike of smaller operators taking contracts from their own larger (and in their eyes somehow better) companies and will refuse to acknowlege that no operator, even one with enormous resources, can forecast and cope with unforseen circumstances.

Dancopter were handed contracts for 4 machines, in 2 different countries only 6 weeks or so before the start date which also happens to co-incide with the start of another large contract with new aircraft in Esbjerg. Anyone with an elementary knowledge of the helicopter industry knows that is an almost impossible task to complete in such a short time.

However, because the company have a good work ethic, they are working hard to complete the task. Shell knows this, which is one of the reasons that they were awarded the contract in the first place. I have no doubt that within a few months (which should have been the lead time in the first place) all contracts will be operating normally once sufficient personnel have been recruited and trained.

Yet Coco the Clown and others seem to think that Dancopter should have purchased aircraft and hired crews beforehand simply in the hope that they would be awarded a contract. Real life is not like that. Presumably he would also be happy to see the same crews made redundant once the contract was not awarded. His own company may well have a habit of making people redundant but Dancopter have never done that.

But what annoys me about cowardly people of that ilk is the fact that they often resort to mis-informed claims, innuendo and plain lies in a feeble attempt to damage reputation in the eyes of others.

[mazdadriver]

Epiphany,

If you were not so clearly biased and blinkered in your views I think you would find others would be more receptive to, and less critical of, your comments. With you, there appears to be no compromise, and you are still creating every opportunity you can to put DC on a pedestal way above everyone else, with a clear attack on the work ethic of Bristow's and other's pilots (even though you will be working with some of them soon!). So, what is it you consider to be unforeseen, and who do you judge most readers to now be considering to be the small minded ones?

I agree that Shell have enormous responsibility for deciding to award their contract literally at the 12th hour, but you appear to have no awareness that DCs proposal to Shell should have included a detailed plan (with "Management of Change" processes) to show how they would be ready on time. Shell must therefore have known exactly how long it would take for DC to be ready, and have been totally capable of calculating the full impact of delaying their decision. Other bidders did fulfil the requirement to provide their plans. This is at the heart of people's frustration, as nothing about this contract award appears to be right, looking backwards.

You should also accept that many posters do have direct and reliable knowledge that DC continued to tell Shell, and half the rest of the world, that they'd be fully ready on 1st July, even as late as end-May. You need to get down off of your pedestal, accept and admit your share of responsibility for the imminent mess, and show some respect for others by acknowledging that all North Sea pilots are basically the same and will suffer the same issues at some point in their career.

[Epiphany]

Have you considered the fact that had Shell released the DC 155's from Nigeria in the previously agreed time frame that DC may well have been FULLY ready to start the SNS contract and that they were simply stating a fact in May?

Of course BHL would have been able to start fully on 1sJuly because they were already in situ as the previous contract holders.

I am not employed by DC as I have previously stated but I am familiar with DC - as I am with BHL and CHC and am therefore qualified to comment. I have no operator on a pedestaL as I have yet to meet one who deserves that accolade. What I am posting here for is to counter the false accusations that DC are a shoddy operator; as there are many readers here who know nothing about the company and would gain a very false impression reading some of the drivel posted on this thread.

[mazdadriver]

Do I need to explain that an MoC process includes manpower, aircraft, parts, approvals, training, facilities, and every other factor involved in being ready, all with timeline? Surely not...

From what I can assess, the aircraft are already in Europe, so are now a minor factor, with some evidence that crewing is the limiting factor. Even if they are a factor, that'd still have been known from the timeline.

The main challenge was always going to be recruitment. For pilots, the timeline should have covered advertisement of vacancies, selection and interview processes, issue and signing of employment contracts, time for currently-employed pilots to serve notice, company induction, Operator Conversion (which I'm sure you know is not the same as an OPC, and required for all joiners), and availability of Line trainers. This isn't new, and is not rocket science. I'm sure CHC would have had a plan for a 'transition crew' of current company pilots to do the work until the new starters would be on line.

[lowfat]

You are wasting your breath he obviously has no clue about the work that is supposed to be carried out to launch a contract.

He also forgets about the Ménage à trois Shell,Dancopter and the other shining light of excellence, Caverton.

If Dancopter only had 6 weeks notice not only will I get my coat I will eat it.

[SNI]

Hail to mazdadriver!

Man, you're getting killed out here Epiphany!

You're contradicting yourself so much, it's almost an art. Ever heard of a saying that involves a pot and a kettle?

Give it a rest and pack your bags. You're not going to 'win' this argument simply because you're not enough in the know, although you think you are.

Tell you what, if you leave this thread, I will. Deal?

[SNI]

EC155 MTOM Clear Area 4920kg
Typical DOM 3350kg -
Disp. Load 1570kg
3 hours fuel +/- 930kg -
Av. payload 640kg

So that's 360 kg less then in a 139 when carrying 3 hours of fuel, which sounds about right.

So no, DC can't offer more payload in a 155 then in a 139, unless you use half destination minima as alternate minima (200'/900m for precision approach, so they can choose alternates closer by), don't have optional crash worthy fuel tanks and only carry 75 kilos of final reserve fuel on a standard offshore IFR flight, which they apparently do.

Hallo? CAA?

[Epiphany]

Coco and Lada. I take it that you work for Dancopter and are therefore intimately aquainted with Dancopter operations and the details of their bid for the SNS contract. No? I see. So how come you know so much about them and are so certain that Dancopter pilots fly overweight aircraft and lie to their customers? Rumours from other small-minded, envious, dinosaurs in your crewroom?

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

By the way - there is an open invite to a BBQ at Den Helder on Sunday to celebrate the launch of the SNS operation. Why don't you go along and ask the DC pilots yourselves?

No, I thought not. People like you never have the balls to do anything like that do you?

[Rigging Pin]

All done slagging each other off? :ugh:

[Epiphany]

Not quite RP.

I just overhear a rumour in our crewroom that the person formerly known as SNI was ' not a very nice person' (or words to that effect). Should I believe this rumour or wait until I meet SNI and make my own informed opinion?

[Inverted81]

So, the plan at the moment are 2 x 155s based at SH (DOP91 & 92). Will the others be operating from den Helder or is this it for the time being?

[SNI]

Yes, I'm done here. Hanging up the gloves. I'll leave Epiphany to it to make a fool out of himself.

Have fun!

Signing off.

[SNI]

"Why don't you go along and ask the DC pilots yourselves?"

I did. This is information from DC pilots themselves. Plus, I've seen it with my own eyes (oh yes, I was there), plus why don't you ask the Dutch CAA, they've dealt with it before.

Strange by the way that I don't hear any DC pilots defending the rumours...

Maybe they are a lot wiser then me by not responding. Credits to them then. I let myself get carried away way to much here. Therefore see my post above.

Ciao!

[Shell Management]

Sadly there are small-minded posters here who are blinded by their dislike of smaller operators taking contracts from their own larger (and in their eyes somehow better) companies

Bravo Ephipany! Yours is a voice or reason! You have my full respect because you clearly recognise their is too much sizeist bias by those in the big fat complacent fat operators.

mazdadriver Do I need to explain that an MoC process includes manpower, aircraft, parts, approvals, training, facilities, and every other factor involved in being ready, all with timeline? Surely not...


Well some of the larger helicopters operators clearly struggle with managing change:) Luckily companies like Shell are adept at change and can provide suitable remedial actions to allow a smooth transfer to new helicopter operators and put all these things in place. In fact it is easier for proper MoC when introducing a small local operator as Shell can handle that rather than leaving it to some complacent global operator.

SNI - Dancopter pilots are too busy preparing for this prestigious contract to be posting nonsense on PPRuNe:)

Looking forward to the BBQ! Its just a pity that as he is retired the former MD of SAI will not be there to see another key step to moving to agile local operators has occurred.

[Miles Gustaph]

Shell Management,

can you clarify you last point please:

"another key step to moving to agile local operators has occurred. "

if that was what SAI want, then why did they go out to the market with a global service provider tender instead of a number of local contracts?

Miles

[mazdadriver]

Miles, I recommend you just ignore SM. If he was ever connected to Shell, it was at least eight years ago, and not SAI itself. His current connections are to a small operator, so he is totally biased and simply trying to appear knowledgeable and involved. He does not represent SAI, and does not know what they want.

[Saint Jack]

Two things continue to amaze me about this 'Shell Management' individual, the first is that there are still people who appear to give credence to his strange preachings, error-strewn and grammatically incorrect posts, and second, that Shell Aircraft International have not taken steps to unmask him.

I am reminded of the English King Henry II's remark in AD 1170, "...will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest...."

Not, of course, to be taken as literally as the Henry's words were.

[SASless]

Saint Jack.....pretty good memory if you can recall something you heard in 1170....Me Mum should be so lucky!


Shell Management may just be known to several posters here at Rotorheads....but for some reason he has not been out'ed in the public forum.

One would wonder if real Shellies are happy having their organization represented by such an individual even if unofficially....but then they themselves have a somewhat controversial reputation amongst the working class who have to deal with them from what we read here.

Knowing more than a few of them myself.....I have to admit I find they do sometimes set themselves up for criticism.

All we have to do is look back at the Shell Decision to go with the EC-155 and Dornier in Nigeria. That whole evolution smacked of extra contract gratuities as it surely did not make either business or common sense when looked at by any real standard.

Imagine a Jet Aircraft without spoilers or speed brakes and with a history of engine problems. Then you spec a helicopter that is fast....long ranged....for a shuttle operation with very short legs for the majority of the operation.....and needs a runway to operate to any weight.

Ah yes....the ways of Shell!

[nbl]

So who is flying for Shell today?

[mazdadriver]

In Den Helder, Bristow and Dancopter are flying for Shell today, with Bristow having the larger chunk of the workload (more flights, longer days) this week.

In Norwich, I believe Dancopter are on their own, with some minor modifications to the schedule to fit their capacity.

[helihub]

Dancopter have two EC155s at Norwich, handled by SaxonAir

[Lin100]

Norwich Airport departure and arrival info tells a different story

[212man]

Probably slow in updating their system. The BHL site shows a different picture:

Bristow Passenger Services (http://www.bristowgroup.com/clients/flight-status/)

[sAviator]

Does anyone know which company really got shell contract??

[SNI]

I don't know where DC kept their barbecue last Sunday in Den Helder, but it seems they kept it inside the helicopter.... Or at least close to it.

Aircraft is broken, again! Contract not even up and running for 5 days now.... Bristow crew having to save the day by flying their balls off. Are you keeping track of KPI's Shell?

Someone at Shell must be scratching behind his ears right now.

Hate to say I told you so....

[Epiphany]

You weren't invited - and I can smell the bull**** from here.

[mazdadriver]

So can I, Epiphany, but I don't smell any of it coming from SNI's direction! What is it that you don't believe about what he wrote, and what evidence do you have in support?

[Epiphany]

I possibly doubt the credibility of CoCo The Clown as he was the one who originally told us the NVH do not attend sim training. This was proven to be false. He also told us that Dancopter 155's do not meet Shell specifications. This was proven to be false. He also told us that Dancopter pilots admitted to him personally that they regularly fly over max gross weight aircraft and regularly lie to their customers. It is laughable that he actually expects people to believe this.

SNI is a bitter and twisted individual who for some reason has a grudge against Dancopter and NHV and this bitterness has blinded him to truth and common sense. He is one who would never let the truth stand in the way of a good story and he therefore has no credibility.

My theory is that he wasw bullied at school and later in life failed both the NHV Dancopter pilot selection tests.

[mazdadriver]

So, err, no evidence then! I believe from my own knowledge that what SNI wrote today is accurate.

As I recall it, the NHV/sim issue ended up being that at the time of the comment being made, NHV had only just started fulfilling this OGP requirement, so it was not false, just a month or two out of date.

It's still the case that only Bristow's 155B1s have the spec that Shell Aircraft required. Plenty of posts (including my own) to support that. Also not false.

I have no personal knowledge from which to comment on your last piece of character evidence, but once again suggest you get off of your own pedestal, to be seen as credible yourself in future.

[Rigging Pin]

Maybe DC 155's are not the same spec as Bristow 155's but funny enough they both meet the Shell requirements... otherwise they wouldn't be flying for them.

The Heli Holland machine was also good enough for Shell when they needed them and they still fly the 155 with internal liferafts.....

Shell their requirement/ safety is just like in any other company.........
money driven.

RP

[mazdadriver]

Sorry RP, but I've NEVER known Shell to fly with HH. Can you back that up with evidence? But you're point is taken!

[mazdadriver]

Thunderstorms most of today in the NL sector, perhaps?! Although actual Tx in the 5min-old METAR and the current landing weather report from ATC doesn't deter some, it seems.

As covered by most of this page, Bristow is supporting Shell in July in DHR, not NWI, so no surprises there.

[SNI]

TorqueStripe

That's 3 more than Dancopter is doing in Den Helder and it isn't even their contract anymore. Also ask the Bristow pilots from yesterday why they were finished at 2200.

Epiphany

Really, down to this kinder garden level? At least my comment wasn't personal and was, like always, fact based. Can't say that at all about your comments which are all pure emotional and biased.

To all:

DC wanted to come out and play with the big boys so they should also walk the walk instead of only talk the talk. Fair. Exactly the same would have been said and announced about Bristow if it was the other way around. Deal with it or DC has to perform in such a fair way that my posts aren't neccessary. In that case I would otherwise only make a fool out of myself like Epiphany is doing.

[SNI]

TorqueStripe

You're right. I was exaggerating. Might wanna add the extra flights for Bristow from yesterday as well, when the DC aircraft apparently also was broken. Doesn't take away the fact that Bristow is still doing more than DC is doing, on their own bloody contract.

Epiphany

You can speculate all you want about my person or background, even with a hilarious :rolleyes: nickname like CoCo the Clown for all I care, but one thing is for sure mate: I got where I want to be. Did you?

[mazdadriver]

Well everyone, given the title of this thread I think it's time we all called it a day and moved on, before this gets too silly.

We all now know that Dancopter was awarded the contract in Norwich and Den Helder, and as expected they weren't ready, and probably won't be for a few more months. Bristow is filling some of the gaps this month, and no doubt someone else will do that in August.

We should wish all the best to the Dancopter crews in the challenging times ahead. A lot has been written here, but there's really nothing more to add as there are no more msyteries.

[SNI]

I agree. I'll give it a rest. Too many things have been said already in the heat of the moment. I will literally be moving on to bigger things now.

All the best to everyone and hope for DC they can live up to the expectations.

Cheers.

Signing off.

[Rigging Pin]

@ Mazdadriver: I believe HH have flown some adhoc flights for shell and if I am right their website also stated they have been audited by Shell.

But all of this is of no importance anyway.
DC is the new Shell-slave. I hope they do well and keep their company as it is, without getting completely influenced by shell.
They are unlucky at the moment because of U/S aircraft and I doubt they have managed to get the proper spares at the bases but give it some time and all will be good.

RP

[Shell Management]

The important achievement is that the EPE and NAM logistics requirements are still being acheived day in day out:ok:

Shell only use Shell Aircraft approved aircraft and operators:)

[Rigging Pin]

Well said SM. Don't forget to mention shell approves different operators at different standards.

RP

[Shell Management]

There is only one real standard - the Shell Global Aviation Standard:ok:

Its such a valuable document that many ex-Shell employees have carried it on to their next jobs;)

You must be confusing Shell with other oil companies who use and abuse the lesser OGP standard:yuk:

[ericferret]

Bull**** SM

I worked on an operation for Shell with one aircraft one pilot and one engineer.
No leave for us over a nine month period.

3 flights a week, then 5 flights a week then two flights on some days.
Then additional flights at weekends.

Eventually the peny dropped and we were restricted to 5 days a week.

The crowning glory was while loading a container some of the content leaked on to my hand.
I was told it was distilled water, after a few seconds my hands began to burn, sulphuric acid.

The effect of this running through the aircraft can be imagined.

Who was responsible for this load, the Shell safety representative!!!!!

Shouldn't really have worried though as they loaded a lead acid battery on it's side a few weeks later and did some serious damage anyway.

Our facilities were no hangar, no running water, no toilet facilities, just a 40 foot shipping container on a piece of tarmac on the apron.

Mind you everything was ok because we were "Shell approved"!!

[Hilife]

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a lower price"

[Rigging Pin]

@ Shell Management; "There is only one real standard - the Shell Global Aviation Standardhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif" <-----:ugh::yuk:

At least you know yourself you're selling Bullsh*t! :D

RP

[212man]

The important achievement is that the EPE

EPE? Showing your time away from the company there.......

[lowfat]

this belongs here

Air Accidents Investigation: Eurocopter EC155B1, OY-HJJ (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/july_2014/eurocopter_ec155b1__oy_hjj.cfm)

[Impress to inflate]

Why is the Shell standard seem as the "Holy Grail" of safety?

From my experience, and I've flown for many companies over the world, Shell are the worst. I have done audits for several Oil and Gas companies and Shell are the least flexible, it's BLACK and WHITE, even with things that aren't important become an issue. They DON'T promote safety, it's all about the CHEAPEST price, and that's it !!

I used to work in another Oil and Gas industry on contract to Shell, the same applies there, they talk safety but don't follow though, I could give 10's of examples but my time is limited

ITI

[Tango123]

Is Shell changing operator to CHC in SNS Norwich and Den Helder, midway in the 5 yr contract?

[MyTarget]

If so that would be good news for CHC NL. :ok:

[Tango123]

1. July CHC will take over the Shell contract, with one 139 in Norwich and two 139 in Den Helder.

[Banksman]

That's good for CHC and bad for Dancopter so what will they have left so job cuts for them so grass was not greener on other side !!!

[Fareastdriver]

I used to work in another Oil and Gas industry on contract to Shell, the same applies there, they talk safety but don't follow though, I could give 10's of examples but my time is limited

Where's Shell Management?

[Sevarg]

Hopefully back in the land of Trolls never to be heard of again.

[chinook<NL>]

@banksman, the grass was green untill it became yellow;)

[Tango123]

Shell is still doing well:
Royal Dutch Shell to buy BG Group in £47bn deal - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32213341)

Royal Dutch Shell flag
Royal Dutch Shell says it has agreed to buy oil and gas exploration firm BG Group in a deal that values the business at £47bn.
The two firms say they have reached agreement on a cash and shares offer which gives investors a 50% premium on BG Group's share price on 7 April.
The deal could be one of the biggest of 2015 and could produce a company with a value of more than £200bn ($296bn).
BG Group's shares opened up 42% on the London Stock Exchange to 1,293.5p.
Shell's £177bn market capitalisation dwarfs that of BG, which now stands at £31bn after a 20% fall in its share price over the past year.
BG Group is the UK's third largest energy company. It was created in 1997 when British Gas demerged into two separate companies: BG Group and Centrica.
BG Group took control of exploration and production while Centrica took charge of the UK retail business of the former British Gas. BG currently employs about 5,200 people in 24 countries.
Shell said BG Group shareholders would enjoy higher dividends, as it confirmed its intention to pay its existing shareholders $1.88 per ordinary share this year.
That compares with a dividend of just $0.14 that BG Group shareholders can expect to receive this year.
The oil giant also said it expected to commence a share buyback programme in 2017 of at least $25bn.
And Shell said it would also provide BG Group shareholders with a "mix and match facility", allowing them to vary how much they receive in cash and new Shell shares.
Shell and BG Group expect to make annual savings of $2.5bn following the deal.
But Shell chief executive Ben van Beurden said he remained committed to North Sea oil and expected to invest £4bn between 2016 and 2018.
Shell said the deal would also add 25% to its proven oil and gas reserves and 20% to production capacity, particularly in Australia's liquid natural gas (LNG) market and in deep water oil exploration off the Brazilian coast.
BG Group shareholders will own approximately 19% of the combined group following the deal.
Defensive merger?
The deal comes at a time of uncertainty for oil and gas companies. In the past six months the price of oil has fallen by about 50%. Meanwhile, analysts have warned that investment in North Sea oil exploration has all but dried up, threatening the entire industry.
Last month, the Chancellor, George Osborne, lowered the supplementary corporation tax levied against oil companies that operate in the North Sea.

[Geneva Conflict]

Undoubtly CHC takes over the 5 year DanCopter contract (2 yrs remaining) so to upgrade their fleet from 155 to 139's. The DanCopter management stays silent about it actually lieing to their workers they still have contract and nothing changes... This might be true at the moment but what happens on 1st of july???


No valuable merging info from NHV, no feedback from DC's management, no signs what so ever of any changes... it feels like a ticking bom. Totally not confident with it here :bored:

[Tango123]

Will there be any future needs for pilots in CHC Norwich and Den Helder?

[helimutt]

probably not as CHC were already looking at downsizing so theyll no doubt just retain more staff as required.

[EESDL]

....Shell citing the EC155 Sea State issue and added expense of hiring-in 139s as factor for curtailing contract (plus the fact that CHC were virtually throwing the 139s at them might have helped)
Sea State issue came about due to CAP1145, which came about as a direct result of CHC crashing off Sumburgh......

No wonder they say you have to have a sense of humour in this job ;-)

Only Shell employees have been officially informed, Shell probably delaying formal notification until May so 3-months notice would give them a month's overlap.
Crazy situation to be in but apparently such corporate practice does not occur or at least that was what the oil companies told the CAA

[minigundiplomat]

....Shell citing the EC155 Sea State issue and added expense of hiring-in 139s as factor for curtailing contract (plus the fact that CHC were virtually throwing the 139s at them might have helped)
Sea State issue came about due to CAP1145, which came about as a direct result of CHC crashing off Sumburgh......

Fairs fair EESDL - there had also been several Bond incidents; it wasn't just Sumburgh that led to the CAP1145 review. Not arguing your point, but let's have some balance.

[Never Fretter]

I have been reliably informed that a modification to achieve Sea State 6 was certified by Airbus Helicopters in March specifically for DanCopter, so that excuse won't wash.

Real dilemma for CAA: is it better to have an operator they don't oversee replaced by one they do or stand accused of letting just the contract swapsie commercial pressures the Commons Committee were concerned about occur under there nose?

[Bravo73]

Fairs fair EESDL - there had also been several Bond incidents; it wasn't just Sumburgh that led to the CAP1145 review. Not arguing your point, but let's have some balance.

If the crew room chat is to be believed, there were also several other factors involved.

[minigundiplomat]

Again, not arguing the reasons; but picking one singular event, at the expense of ignoring several others, to support an argument just strikes me as a bit biased.

[EESDL]

It is much like a crew room where any such bs can be countered directly - have not personally seen the email - just repeating what it reportedly said by some colleagues who stared at it for quite some time ;-)

Well aware there have been numerous other incidents that finally dragged the CAA into the NS - just sharing some dark humour - such that you might hear in a crew room and certainly never thought anybody would have taken it seriously - you live and learn I guess.....
However - Some encouraging news - the UK CAA can be assured that this particular non-UK EASA AOC holder has an SMS system/culture where atleast all incidents are reported.
And yes, you can read into that anything you like - bearing in mind of course that they employ pilots and engineers whom have probably worked for the same company you currently find yourself working for ;-)

We live in hope but despite the lady - who most certainly falls into the EBG category - is warming her singing chords - Shell might find they are unable to use CHC for some time if current investigations gather momentum. Google knows all.

[Never Fretter]

What is ironic is that Shell had been going to Bond, then changed their minds late in the day after the G-REDW ditching in May 2012:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-18273824

They then went to CHC who had the near identical G-CHCN ditching October 2012 and then the G-WNSB accident at Sumburgh in August 2013.

As Shell never liked North Denes, does that mean CHC would be flying from Norwich in the UK sector? (which would mean a different operator, flying a different type to the Shell decks and a new operating base for the operator)

[Bravo73]

What is ironic is that Shell had been going to Bond, then changed their minds late in the day after the G-REDW ditching in May 2012:- Shell drops Bond Helicopters contract plans - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-18273824)

That's a different Shell contract. That news report refers to the NNS contract, not SNS.


does that mean CHC would be flying from Norwich in the UK sector?

Yes.

[Never Fretter]

That's a different Shell contract. That news report refers to the NNS contract, not SNS.

I never said it was SNS! If it were it would have been KLM/ERA to Bristow to Dancopter to CHC over the last 17 years.

[Bravo73]

I never said it was SNS!

The thread topic is the clue as to what is being discussed here. Your reference was bit of a red herring.

[Never Fretter]

If you want to limit the thread to the "Shell Southern North Sea Contract 2012" then almost all of the recent discussion is out because that's about the "Shell Southern North Sea Contract 2015"!

A reasonable person might think that other contemporary Shell North Sea contracts might have some relevance or interest.

[MyTarget]

Shell pulls out of Scatsta airport | Shetland News (http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/10488-shell-pulls-out-of-scatsta-airport)

And all change up North.

[Variable Load]

Now watch the IAC crumble :E

[zigandzag]

Shell strike - yet again!!!!! :yuk: :yuk:

Safety - Nah!!

Cost - it's all about the buck!

[Tango123]

If nothing else comes out of changing operator to CHC midway in the contract, it sends a clear signal to all operators in the NS (Bond, CHC, Bel Air, Bristow, NHV, Dancopter, Wiking Helicopter, etc.):

Even though you have fulfilled your part of the contract going from year XX to year YY, we have no problems in changing to another half way between XX and YY.

Ethic behaviour?

[helimutt]

Im pretty sure all offshore contracts have a short get-out clause. If its in a contract then its perfectly acceptable from a business sense. From a moral standpoint? Well thats for the individual to decide.

I was led to believe that offshore workers wanted to spend less time in helicopters, not more, but are they now saying they want to spend less time travelling overall, hence direct helicopter trips instead of having an additional fixed-wing sector.

Lets hope Scatsta and Sumburgh can survive, if this is to be a wider industry decision.

[EESDL]

Have no issue with a client changing contractor at any point if the contract is so loose and permits it. That's business.

The problem is that everyone knows that majority of contracts are not worth the paper etc etc. Realistically then, such contracts are for just 90-days.
So short-term mentality rules and the mindset that goes with that.
In effect, long term issues are rarely resolved and 'best practice' is just a phrase clients throw about at glossy 'safety' seminars whilst in the same breath instigating the most hazardous situation in SNS I have seen worldwide.

standby for broad-brush

Pilots are to blame as we are 'go-minded', flexible and operate under the mantra 'if we don't do it then they'll just get someone else' - Pilots are malleable and live in a precarious financial world. Pilots rarely have a credible voice and just get on with it - mumbling and moaning to each other in the cockpit and thereby poisoning the atmosphere.
If pilots were more unified and 'militant' then maybe they might be regarded as something akin to knowledgeable and skillful professionals rather than easily-replaced timid bus drivers? North Sea pilots are not as good as they think they are. They rarely raise their head above the parapet (due to perceived personal consequences) so many safety and operationally-enhancing opportunities are missed and Lady Luck is asked to work overtime in what is our everyday place of work. Pilots start with standards then soon realise that standards are not welcome so allow personal scruples to be hijacked by the fear of losing work. Pilots are reluctant to pursue their employment rights for the fear of muddying the water. The North Sea (flying) is not as 'safe' and 'proactive' as recent glossy articles suggest and lags behind some operating areas I have experienced - even in Africa ;-). We tolerate pilots - whom if they worked in any other sector - would have been laughed at or taken around the back of the bike shed and thumped. Promoted pilots think they are back at school and stop thinking rationally.
Pilots spend more time and effort on embellishing gossip than on trying to improve the situation.
What goes around comes around and if you think things will improve them you are in the wrong industry ;-)
This situation will continue because the companies have told the CAA that it does not happen......

[Tango123]

Must be for the Shell contract:

CHC are recruting individuals who are available to commence on our go live date of 1st July 2015:

CHC are currently recruiting for talented and dedicated experienced AW139 Captains and Co Pilots, to join our highly-skilled CHC team, based in Den Helder.

You will form part of a Company-standard multi-pilot crew on a day to day basis flying for any of our customers. Responsible for such duties concerning the flight, in accordance with the Company Operations Manual, including procedures limitations and performance relating to the specific helicopter type.

Responsibilities:
• To confirm the safe navigation of the helicopter.
• To volunteer such advice, information and assistance to the Commander in order to maintain safe and efficient conduct of the flight.
• To seek such information and advice from the Commander that will enable him/her to fulfill the function.
• To maintain a high personal standard of discipline
• To support the Commander in maintaining high standards of professionalism and morale amongst the crew.
• International travel may be required.
• May perform other duties as assigned.

This role would suit individuals who are available to commence on our go live date of 1st July 2015.

Skills and Qualifications Required

Captains:
• EASA/ATPL (H) License
• IR (H) License
• Valid Class 1 Medical Certificate
• AW139 Type Rating
• Valid recurrent checks
• 3000hrs, Min Flying Hrs
• Successful completion of a company command course
• 1500hrs, Min Total Helicopter flight time
• 500hrs, Min Total Twin turbine helicopter time
• Experience of at least one winter (1st October to 31st March) as senior first
officer in a similar offshore environment
• Depending on customer contract or demands, any additional requirements as specified by customer

Co Pilot
• EASA – ATPL (H) or
• EASA CPL (H) License
• IR (H) License
• Valid Class 1 Medical Certificate
• AW139 Type Rating (preferred)
• Valid recurrent checks
• Passed the ATPL theory examination
• These experience levels may be amended to reflect current operational needs

Pre will be HUET, Firefighting, DGM, LPE-6, Aviation Security, First Aid and CRM.

Please apply online at CHC Helicopter (http://www.chc.ca) to be considered for this position. CHC is committed to equal opportunity employment and invites applications from all qualified candidates. Our process is simple. We look through the incoming CVs to see which ones best match our criteria and contact the people we'd like to learn more about. Unfortunately, we are unable to personally speak with everyone that sends us a CV, but please don't be discouraged if you don't hear from us. We will keep your CV on file for at least six months in case a future position matches your qualifications.

[rogeredover]

......when a Group tries to hide a CEO (who dramatically failed in his previous role playing with windmills, costing them millions) in a business he knows diddly-squat about and plays "this is the cheapest we can offer the AW139" roulette with someone like Shell.

I guess the small consolation for the pilots who originally started Dancopter (apart from cashing-in their shares) and the current ones who are looking at a vertical drawbridge back in Esbjerg - is that he and his cohorts must surely lose any prospect of employment with the latest Group who now owns them?

At least when the sanctions in Iran are lifted, the oil price will fall further as more oil is released - so we'll see more cuts.......DOH!

[Sikorsky]

What is the reason for CHC taking over midway the Dancopter contract in Den Helder and Norwich?

[tistisnot]

Sik,

Why would you need to know that before posting here?!!

[Sikorsky]

For obvious reasons.

[Tango123]

CHC were cheaper Sikorsky, they simply came with a better offer. Nothing to do with Dancopter not fulfilling their obligations.

So yes, we are now in a situation, where the oilcompanys can go to any helicopter operator, and ask for a better price, then cancel the running contract with 3 months notice.

Some call that, the race to the bottom....

[tistisnot]

Tango123

That is probably the case with many contracts - would it have been actually still running beyond the date mentioned, or reached an extension / renewal date at which the oil company may choose to continue or change as it deemed fit? I am sure we would do the same with contracts in our homes / personal lives etc .....

[Tango123]

tis

I do believe that we are seeing a new future here, not seen alike.

This is a clear signal to employees: you are hired for the next few months, not more than that. So don't go out buy a house, move the family and settle in the area. Before you know it, and before we tell you, we have lost the contract.

[Bravo73]

CHC were cheaper Sikorsky, they simply came with a better offer. Nothing to do with Dancopter not fulfilling their obligations.


This is a clear signal to employees: you are hired for the next few months, not more than that. So don't go out buy a house, move the family and settle in the area. Before you know it, and before we tell you, we have lost the contract.

It wasn't just down to price, was it? There were several other factors involved.

[terminus mos]

So yes, we are now in a situation, where the oilcompanys can go to any helicopter operator, and ask for a better price, then cancel the running contract with 3 months notice.

Its called termination for convenience, Tango. 90 days would be good, some contracts are 30 days, some are 60 and one I know is even 14 days!

Other factors, yes of course, apart from the standards and aircraft etc. which all the majors basically provide, there is also the market share issue. CHC is hurting, industry doesn't want to see them disappear so they will start to win some work. Bristow is getting big and powerful, industry will re balance that.

[nowherespecial]

A little birdie tells me Shell have just cancelled their African '10 year' exploration program with CHC after 2 years. 90 days notice. Maybe this is a 'sorry about that' deal?

[WoodenShoe]

People seem to forget that the color of the grass was not the issue for a number of guys and galls.
BHL lost the contract and folks got made redundant.


Now history repeats itself for a number of people.


Regards

[Tango123]

My point is just terminus, that if you start by telling (before) new hired pilots that they are on a working contract (not contractor or freelance) then also tell them that the oilcontract is running for 2-3-5 years before going out to tender. That's the plan, unless the oilcompany choses otherwise, then it could be running down to 1-2-3 months. Basically, be honest to your employees, that is my point, even if that can give the helicopter company problems in the hiring process, like getting enough applications, or people who will sign the contract.

Like I mentioned: people have moved their whole family, sold the old house and bought a new one in connection with relocating. It is people we are dealing with, not just numbers, and terms of termination of a running contract.

[Sevarg]

Does TUPE (transfer of personal on change of contract) come in to play? If not why not? Is it only in UK or only when contracts are put out to tender?
My feeling on the whole thing is that Shell are changing contractors to save money. CHC are in trouble, so they will take a contract at brake-even prices. Enter Shell. They know they can get an other contractor when ever and by keeping 3 big players on the NS they will keep the prices down. Talk safety but not were it touches on the bottom line.
Thank God I've retired. Sad for all that have to still take such s++t from the oil companies.

[terminus mos]

I agree with you Tango. It's not good to have instability. I am sometimes amazed at the contract terms to which companies of all persuasions will accept.

[EESDL]

Aircraft type is irrelevant - you could be flying them in a Cessna and Tupe would still apply as it is the same task - same passengers, same rigs and contract 'service' was changed by client before the end.
Any Google search would highlight that.
Doesn't really matter what we say here - it depends on what the learned folk say - m'lord.

[Camp Freddie]

All I know is that everytime I think TUPE will apply it doesn't, and everytime I think it won't apply it does.
I have given up trying to guess what will happen

[212man]

Some interesting reading here, with the changes from 2014: http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/t/r/9908-2901767-TSO-ACAS-TUPE_is_changing-ACCESSIBLE.pdf

[Bravo73]

Why is there even a discussion about TUPE? Dancopter lost a contract, CHC won a new contract.

Now, if CHC had bought Dancopter and inherited the contract, that might have been a different story. But TUPE doesn't even apply in all of those cases.

[MINself]

It isn't a new contract, it's only until 2017, ie a continuation of the existing contract. A bit short termist yes, but I suppose as Shell have demonstrated that they can exercise a 90 day clause for reasons of convenience, which can never be questioned, maybe CHC are happy with 2 years :mad:

[[email protected]]

From 212 man's link Situation 2: Outsourcing and contracting
The TUPE regulations apply in the following situations:
● a client outsources to a contractor
● a new contractor takes over activities from another contractor
● a client takes activities back in-house from a contractor my bold

[helideck]

Pretty sure tupe will not exist as it will be a different type.

[Camp Freddie]

See post #392 above, this is a straightforward case and so-called industry professionals (us lot) can't agree :ugh: proves my point.

[zigandzag]

johni, did you attend a CRM course in your training or did you miss that day?

[JustmakingTDP]

I think we have a good picture of Johni: 5 foot nothing, hand gestures in the pub, maverick pilot! Good call on the CRM comment! Probably failed the Dancopter interview and very secure in his job. Lets hope we don't lose this chap off the North sea as it would be tragic!

[Variable Load]

This thread sums up my understanding of the TUPE rules and aligns with what I have actually seen happen on the N Sea over the last couple of decades:

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/391226-tupe-north-sea-question.html

The 2014 changes to the TUPE regulation don't seem to have changed the basic premise much. A check of the guidance material available on the ACAS website shows that TUPE will apply if:
1. The employees are deliberately organised by the employer to provide a service for a particular client.
2. If the same work is being performed, with the same equipment at the same premises.

There are other criteria, but these two indicate to me that TUPE will not apply with regard to this contractual change.

[cyclic]

I wonder how NHV's plans are progressing with their Aberdeen base? Can't see much building work going on and they are going to be up and running by the end of the year...

[bigglesbutler]

I wonder how NHV's plans are progressing with their Aberdeen base? Can't see much building work going on and they are going to be up and running by the end of the year...

Where on earth are they going to put it, when I left there was precious little space as it was?

Si

[cyclic]

NHV planning application:

Planning and Sustainable Development (http://planning.aberdeencity.gov.uk/PlanningDetail.asp?ref=150053)

[rogeredover]

......you just have to make sure you keep it watered !

It would appear that no matter of watering would have stopped DC from losing this particular contract

[zigandzag]

So not a new building at all - so before anything is said about false rumours, it's on the way!

Think yellow would be a nice colour for the Aberdeen wildlife, might put some brightness into the place!

Think on the 'bright side'! :O

[Bravo73]

Hmmm, is a certain company now regretting recently firing a number of AW139 pilots...?


EXPERIENCED AW139 PILOTS REQUIRED – START DATE JULY 1st

Offshore Expertise That Runs Wide & Deep



Decades of over-water flying in extremely demanding conditions have honed unmatched knowledge, skill—and leadership—in offshore transportation for companies that discover and produce oil and natural gas. Each year, our people carry more than one million passengers to and from the ships and platforms that make up their offshore workplaces.



This is a billion-dollar business built on the foundation of a strong team spirit in our company and our greatest strength is our motivated and passionate employees. All you have to do is get on board.



CHC are currently recruiting for talented and dedicated experienced AW139 Captains and Co Pilots, to join our highly-skilled CHC team.



You will form part of a small multi – pilot crew team and have the positive can do attitude, and will be driven towards going that extra mile for our customers.



Responsible for such duties concerning the flight, in accordance with the Company Operations Manual, including procedures limitations and performance relating to the specific helicopter type.

Responsibilities: Be responsible for the operation and safety of the helicopter, its occupants and cargo
Ensure that all operational procedures and checklists are complied with, in
accordance with the operations manual
Support an open environment for CRM and actively use high quality crew monitoring procedures
Maintain a proper standard of crew discipline, conduct and personal appearance
International travel may be required.
May perform other duties as assigned. This role would suit individuals who are available to commence on our Go live date of 1st July 15. Flexible roster, 189 days plus 5 stand down days.

Skills and Qualifications Required.

EASA/ATPL (H) License
Valid Class 1 Medical Certificate
AW139 Type Rating
3000hrs,Min Flying Hrs
1500hrs, Total Command flight time
1200hrs, Multi Engine
500hrs, Min Offshore time Please apply ONLINE at CHC Helicopter (http://www.chc.ca) to be considered for this position. CHC is committed to equal opportunity employment and invites applications from all qualified candidates. Our process is simple. We look through the incoming CVs to see which ones best match our criteria and contact the people we'd like to learn more about. Unfortunately, we are unable to personally speak with everyone that sends us a CV, but please don't be discouraged if you don't hear from us. We will keep your CV on file for at least six months in case a future position matches your qualifications.

[helimutt]

Decades of over-water flying in extremely demanding conditions have honed unmatched knowledge, skill—and leadership—in offshore transportation for companies that discover and produce oil and natural gas. Each year, our people carry more than one million passengers to and from the ships and platforms that make up their offshore workplaces.



This is a billion-dollar business built on the foundation of a strong team spirit in our company and our greatest strength is our motivated and passionate employees. All you have to do is get on board.


Really? Billion Dollar? With a share price worth nearly 10% of the initial offer price. :E

Is this a special way of valuing a company ?

[nowherespecial]

With revenue last year of $1.4bn CHC is still a billion dollar business. Investor perception and actual value are different. Shell is a $400bn revenue firm but is not valued that highly either as a business by investors.

It's rare for industrial companies to have earning multiples of more than their revenue owing to the likelihood that their revenue will be similar next year. By comparison, a tech company might be worth a lot more next year as it might grow rapidly and investors factor that into their pricing today.

Dull but largely true.

CHC is still a right sh!t show though...

[Never Fretter]

Is this criticism from CHIRP unprecedented?

CHIRP Critical of an Oil Company's Commercial Practices (http://aerossurance.com/helicopters/chirp-critical-of-oil-company/)

This is Shell and Dancopter right?

Was the TUPE claim ever resolved?

[zalt]

Unprecedented? I think it is but perhaps the CAA inadvertently gave them a green light in their comments in CAP 1145.

[Shell Management]

Another poorly researched piece from CHIRP. :ugh:

Any one with a contract of employment only has a job as long as their notice period. FACT (sad fact but fact nether the less).:=

However in the downturn there will no doubt be an increase in staff at Shell Aircraft to supervise.:ok:

[voando]

Exactly SM .....

Oil Company local managers who award aviation contracts need a 3 month get-out clause in case the advice given by their aviation experts turns out to be worthless!?

[cyclic]

Don't feed him and he will go away hopefully.

[JulieAndrews]

Amazing how he successfully grabbed the wrong end of the stick............:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[nowherespecial]

Let's not forget the recent behaviour of a recent OilCo Management type who tendered a North Sea heavies contract between CHC and BRS and then left for Bond.

[JulieAndrews]

......is surfacing on the rumour mill re ex-North Denes crews who were binned.
Involving numptie CHC management and emails - doh! Looks like that one will be settling out of court.
One of the other cases of CHC (v DC) due end of May 2016.......

[Tango123]

So JA, I assume that the court ruling wil be about if TUPE applies or not?

If it does, then CHC will have to take over the former employees of the SNS Shell Contract (the until 15. July 2015 Dancopter employees); and if TUPE does not apply, then Dancopter will dismiss the employees, with the contractual obligations (Collective Agreement), meaning that the employees never have been dismissed, therefore lacks several months of pay?