BA Cabin Crew

[grassy]

Is there part of their training where they learn to be rude ?

[cym]

If there is, in my experience most of them miss that part of the training.

I fly with them several times a month and as a rule find them helpful and friendly. As in all walks of life sometimes people have bad days - crew included!

[Evanelpus]

Is there part of their training where they learn to be rude ?

Why, do you have a particular axe to grind?

cym summed it up perfectly, don't matter if you are cabin crew or on the checkout at Asda, there are good ones and bad ones.

[grassy]

no axe to grind just an observation.

I travel with a number of other carriers but BA seem to have an unusually high number rude crew. They make one feel like ones an inconvenience.

[Evanelpus]

OK

I will say that of all the carriers I've ever flown with, the BA cabin crew score in the lower half of the table. They've never made me feel like a toilet but I have had some that made me feel as though I was putting them out asking for something.

Some you win, some you lose!

[Ancient Observer]

They are like all populations - a mixed bag. Some are excellent, some appear to hate customers. I guess that most are perfectly OK for the job.
Like all organisations, the immediate "feel" of the place is important - if the pilots go out of their way to try to create a positive environment, and if the onboard Supervisors are any good, then service should be good.
If BA want a premium price, they must have a premium crew.
Whilst performance management of crew is notoriously difficult, BA need to try harder to manage out of BA those that are not giving the high standards that customers pay for.

[grassy]

But its very difficult to do. I cant tell you how many times ive left a flight annoyed at their attitude and I dont have high expectations.

Virgin are by the best.

[McGoonagall]

Flown BA many times and have always had an acceptable service. However some CC have displayed a precious or even a prima donna attitude. The best for me was a short flight on a long gone airline called Novair. AGP-MAN on a brand new 734, top service. Not surprising really as there were only about 30 punters on the flight. No wonder they went bump.

[PAXboy]

grassy I use VS as my main long haul carrier and have certainly had some less than helpful ones. Given that I am 'low maintenance' pax, that's saying something. You might search for old threads on this topic, the attitudes of CC, as they usually crop up about every six months. Overall, the CC get a good report, even on some carriers that have poor reputations.

I work in a field where every single supplier trumpets how much they care for the customer. It's on all their notepaper and shop fronts. Having worked in this business for 20 years I can say, "It ain't necessarily so ..." :rolleyes:

[SpringHeeledJack]

However some CC have displayed a precious or even a prima donna attitude.

I would have to concur. I used to be somewhat of a roadwarrior and fly constantly with many different airlines, although mainly with the 'biggies' on each continent. Generally speaking each airline had a personality and I know that generalisations are crass, but it seemed to hold true on the majority of flights that I took :8. The American legacy carriers were much of a muchness, friendly, homely and welcoming and in Europe, Lufthansa were efficient, but somewhat cold, Swissair efficient and a bit warmer, Alitalia chaotic, but charming, Air France (well, Francais :rolleyes:) KLM, SAS, Warm in a quirky way, Iberia simple and uncomplicated :E and BA.....Efficient, reliable and yet there was a pervading 'personality' somewhat akin to the assistants in luxury clothes/shoe shops whereby they take on the airs of grandeur. It seemed to dissipate the further forward in the cabin one was domiciled :hmm: As to whether this attitude was caused by company conditioning or to do with the British personality and it's abhorrence towards serving others (unlike professional servers in many European countries) I cannot say. I have been very low maintenance as a passenger and have always been courteous and polite, yet have experience said attitude on many BA flights. I do remember during the BA strike in 2009 ? taking a longhaul flight to South America and the outbound flight was staffed with volunteers. It was so relaxed and enjoyable as to have stayed in the memory, yet the return 3 weeks later was back in the old rhythm of agitated diva who was being bothered by any passenger request (and that was just me :}) It's not the easiest of jobs being a long haul steward/ess, bad air, many diverse passengers, jet lag and so on, but as long as that's the chosen path, then a helpful service orientated attitude and credo would help.



SHJ

[grassy]

SHJ,
I think you summed it up perfectly with " they take on the airs of grandeur".

I too am a "low touch" passenger but heaven help you if you ask for something out of the usual service - this morning I asked for a cereal and the fruit salad (which I didnt get !) instead of pastries and bacon sarnies - the cc seemed to take it as a personal affront and was very offish.

I'm not sure that complaining would do any good either as it seems more cultural.

[crewmeal]

From what I gather from colleagues who actually fly for BA, it seems that since the Industrial problems of the past 2-4 years or so many crew have their minds on everything else but passenger service and comfort. There is still a lot of "in house fighting" amongst the crews. Standoff between colleagues, negative attitudes towards mixed fleet, disrespect of management and senior crew. The list is endless. This of course radiates to passengers and they see everything and experience this side. Hence this thread.

I still have to bang my head and say to myself "Did I really work for BA 30 years ago. I look at the youtube clips of BOAC. I then realise I flew for a great airline and was proud to do so!

What of the future? Who knows, but be sure BA won't be getting my hard earned cash.

[call100]

The new TV series on the PanAm (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2041469/Pan-Am-BBC-drama-recreates-days-flying-glamorous--VERY-racy-plotlines.html) heydays might show them how it should be...

[VS-LHRCSA]

Having worked for both Virgin AND BA, I have to say that it is really difficult to train people to be rude because it is so subjective.

[PAXboy]

crewmealThere is still a lot of "in house fighting" amongst the crews.Not according to the latest BA adverts there isn't ... :E :}

[Bob Upndown]

VS-LHRCSA,

Having also worked for VS and having spent a lot of time at Newman House, I can certify that the ones that were going to go ''bad'' went so as soon as that red uniform went on...

Back on thread - my experience is the short-haul BA crew are much happier than the long haul. Last time I came back from HKG in C, I felt compelled to ask what I'd done to upset the FA who clearly didn't want to be there (late night in Lan Kwai Fong perhaps????). I got a glare and a grunt in reply...:hmm:

[ChicoG]

Over the last few years, BA crew have generally turned more miserable.

I think taking a person off the aircraft and making them actually work a bit harder has something to do with it.

They were probably happier with more crew on board and a less demanding workload.

Not really much of a criticism per se, no-one likes their status quo being eroded, and I'd probably be a bit grumpy if I was used to an easier work day.
.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Not really much of a criticism per se, no-one likes their status quo being eroded, and I'd probably be a bit grumpy if I was used to an easier work day.

I agree, but why should the customer(s) have to be on the receiving end of any matter between the employees and their management, especially in a service industry ? Too many times service industry jobs are staffed by people who don't want to be serving and either passively or aggressively show their customers that. Perhaps either a change of job is needed or a change of attitude.



SHJ

[PAXboy]

(repeating myself) BA is nearing the end of this life span. It's a natural arc. Look at ANY company, institution, govt - and you will see how they rise and fall. It's not always pretty but it's life.

(for the record, I always enjoy travelling on BA when I do.)

[OldBristolFreighter]

Don’t forget that in the past BA management overtly encouraged staff to consider back cabin passengers as unwanted but necessary by stating that they (management) would prefer only to carry premium “front cabin “passengers.
However, they admitted they still needed some cattle to fill up the empty bit at the back.
Sadly there remain a few CC who delight in maintaining this attitude to those they perceive as the great unwashed.

[MissM]

Is there part of their training where they learn to be rude ?

No, it is not! You probably just have had a bit of bad luck getting the less nicer staff (as you would find in any company) crewing your flights.

[crewmeal]

Don’t forget that in the past BA management overtly encouraged staff to consider back cabin passengers as unwanted but necessary by stating that they (management) would prefer only to carry premium “front cabin “passengers.
However, they admitted they still needed some cattle to fill up the empty bit at the back.

What's that got to do with anything? Where ever the crew work they should show some civility towards passengers. Judging by comments on various threads on this forum some crew don't give a t**s about passengers welfare regardless of class.

[L'aviateur]

In my experience with European and US Airlines where you find older crew, the older crew are pretty disillusioned probably from far too much exposure to the general public. Younger crew surrounded by disillusioned crew could be easily influenced.
I honestly think if you work with general public for too long, unless you have a really positive attitude, you begin to dislike the customers.

[radeng]

I find that at their worst - which is very infrequent - BA CC are very good. They put to shame Lufthansa, American, United, S/H Air France and DEFINITELY US Air and America West.

Baboo are surprisingly good for a small airline that say that eren't an LCC but they are cheap as far as fares go, but not service.

Qantas are nearly as good as BA, but admittedly, I've only had 36 flights on BA so far this year and 2 on American Eagle - they weren't too bad. I'm flying again next week to CPH, so I could report again next weekend if the thread is still running.

[katie2931]

Flew with lots of different airlines to and from the far east a few years back and I have to say British Airways cabin crew were abysmal. One cc in particular was so rude when my dad enquired about the broken tv screen of a young child on the long haul flight that he complained and never flew with 'our own' again. Lufthansa cabin crew followed closely. On the other hand Finnair were brilliant! So much so that they bordered annoying ! :)

[easyflyer83]

All airlines have bad crew. At the two airlines I have worked/work for I have seen examples of it. Some crew are just like that, I don't know why. You also get those who are having a bad day, not really any excuse and then you get those that occasionally snap when provoked. The latter can be very hard to resist when it's a passenger who persists in arguing the toss when you have politely asked them to do something or who is rude from the outset. This is the only scenario where I have sympathy.

Specifically BA, I think there are some crew who think they are a cut above and in the past they have probably had it instilled in them....but then there are also some passengers who are just naturally intimidated by crew and that might cloud their judgement. A regular example from my experience is if a crew member has left a call bell on or if a passenger accidentally presses a call bell as they move out of their seat, I attend that passenger and ask if they're ok/what can I do .....and they go into a blind panic like they've been accused of something really ghastly.

I'm not excusing such behaviour i'm just saying that it exists at all airlines including mine. There are probably a multitude of reasons for it but I have to say that in general I think passengers are getting ruder. Air travel is getting more stressful and quite often crew are the ones who get the release. But the overwhelming majority of passengers are atleast civil, polite and occasionally an absolute pleasure to have onboard. I think the same can be said about crew.

[Mr Mac]

My own experiance of BA crew in the air has been ok, although not excellent. In discussions found them to be "deppressed" about the state of their airline and concerned for the future. I have sympathy with this as the product has been poor, ie old planes , old IFE, and average food.

I have found some of the ground staff at Heathrow to be very poor. For example overheard a conversation in Business class lounge with a passenger asking for a glass of champagne at 11.00am and being told there was none available (seems strange to me). Upon the passenger questioning this very politly she was asked by ground staff "did she have a problem" ie drinking issues. Not quite what you expect in a customer facing business.

In general I would say that previouse posts saying that people have bad days etc is very true, and is true on all carriers, it just seems that when BA crew have a bad day everybody else has one as well.

In closing I have to say that I have voted with my feet and no longer fly with BA unless no option, but this has been down to abandonment of Northern England by their managment not the crews. On the plus side their crews in my experiance do know how to have a good party down route !.

[rethymnon]

sounds a bit like the England rugby team then!

[YorkshireTyke]

I still have to bang my head and say to myself "Did I really work for BA 30 years ago. I look at the youtube clips of BOAC. I then realise I flew for a great airline and was proud to do so!

What of the future? Who knows, but be sure BA won't be getting my hard earned cash

I've heard that quite a lot recently, from older, once loyal, BA staff who have been unceremoniously kicked out of their access to the Staff Travel concessions that they were promised in their retirement.

[Sygyzy]

I have no axe to grind here but to set the record straight BA have changed the rules for retired staff's access to concessionary travel. They haven't denied retirees staff travel.

Where it used to be available for life it is now available only for the same period as you worked for the company. Ie, if you worked for BA for 30 years, retired at (say) 58 then you staff travel would cease at age 88.

Not as good as it once was but considering that many carriers give no staff travel to retirees at all, this ain't too bad.

Also one has to consider the changing world of T's & C's, where everything is being squeezed/shaved.

[grassy]

Then I must be supremely unlucky. i would not have gone to the effort of posting this if I had thought its a one off.

Someone else commented about the class you travel and the level of rudeness, I have certainly notice the further you go back the worse it becomes.

I too have sought to travel with other airlines and the experience has been much better - as i said, Virgin being by far the best. The age of their cc seems much lower and they genuinely seem to enjoy their jobs.

[PAXboy]

Age has nothing to do with it. Once had a Lufthansa CC go waaaaay beyond the call of to get my personal reading light working and she was mature woman. Age is irrelevant.

[ExXB]

I have found some of the ground staff at Heathrow to be very poor... Not quite what you expect in a customer facing business.


Don't get me started on the lounge dragons at Heathrow. For the most part (except for some unknown reason flights to Dulles which were invariably bad) BA's CC have been good to excellent, but the people on the ground ...

BA should be devoting their efforts to make our flying experience ever bit as good as they think it is, but which it isn't.

[grassy]

I think age does have something to do with it. The younger cc were very enthusiastic, smiley and seemed genuinely happy to be there.

With age brings baggage, issues with pensions, rather be at home etc....... so whilst I agree it shouldnt make a difference it does.

[YorkshireTyke]

Sygyzy

........They haven't denied retirees staff travel.........


Just a selected few.

I think it isn't so much the changed concept that is infuriating them, so much as the retrospective action against them at this late stage of their lives, and I know some - from a past era - who accepted a previous plea to take early retirement on the promise of continued access to concessions.

I know at least one who won't be helping any financial salvation of BA by pouring his hard-earned pension in to buying BA tickets. They have a choice.

White-Man-Talk-With-Forked-Tongue.

I tend to agree with them, sadly.

Thanks.

[PAXboy]

It is a problem that countless mature companies have. Contracts and staffing agreements made in the 1980s + 90s and now unsustainable in a totally changed world.

The difference is in how the company deal with the problem and how the staff view the problem. There are numerous facets and, for BA, it has been drawn out over a very long time that has made it more difficult for ALL sides to reach an harmonious agreement. Unfortunately, now, there never will be an harmonious agreement.

[Capot]

Once had a Lufthansa CC go waaaaay beyond the call of to get my personal reading light working and she was mature woman. I've taken the liberty of altering your post to make it accurate;

Once had a Lufthansa CC go waaaaay beyond the call of to get my personal reading light working because she was mature woman, and therefore knew what to do and how to do it.

[Sygyzy]

YT, Originally this was merely a factual statement.

To make any comment...I'm with you all the way, the move was retrospective/retroactive with no consultation, simply fait accompli. Of course there' no-one to fight your corner once you've retired. Put up and shut up.

That said it's still better than nowt and better than the provision of some other carriers.

S

[YorkshireTyke]

That said it's still better than nowt and better than the provision of some other carriers.

It WAS better than nowt for those affected ! and some 'other' carriers retirees will still be able to hold concessions for life ON B.A. under Interline agreements - Iberia retired staff for one !! at the expense of our own once loyal staff.

It's the HYPPO principle - Here's Your Pension P*ss Off.

Caveat Emptor. ( that applies to all you lot still working - your time will come to be treated like s**t, too)

[parabellum]

Surprised not to hear mention of Olympic on this thread!

Two class config A300, ATH-LHR. Business and Economy, me Business pax. Find my seat, remove jacket and walk towards forward wardrobe, "sorry, no, they are all full", as indeed they were, with crew suitbags bearing the Olympic logo and crew tags, "Put it in the overhead". I noticed as I returned to my seat that the areas around doors L1 and R1 were completely blocked by cabin crew baggage, all carrying crew labels!

A totally indifferent, grudging cabin service whilst most of their time the two cabin crew assigned to the business cabin stood around, smoking and talking to a pax who they obviously knew and who was holding court from his seat with another pax and other crew members who came forward from time to time.

An unwritten rule is that crew of one airline don't 'dob' in crew from another, but I was sorely tempted!

[sea oxen]

By and large, I find the male CC on BA more courteous than their female counterparts, but I've yet to find any of them being rude.

It's fair to assume that if the person with whom the CC dealt with one, three, five, seven or ten minutes earlier was ghastly, even if you're at your most charming, that horrible little grey cloud will follow her around.

Trying to stand up straight on a narrow wobbling walkway, trying not to spill other people's drinks whilst dodging inebriates and being ogled to boot is just fine for me on Christmas Eve, but not five times a day, four times a week.

The demeanour of CC is palpably different earlier in the day than that dreaded last leg home. Sometime they'll be weary and grumpy, others will be looking forward, as I am, to getting out of that tin can.

[RealFish]

I flew to LHR to Nice last week - first BA flight for some time and it was OK. CC were reasonably professional, friendly...but for some, while the smile said one thing the body language was saying something else.

That said, I have always found the Gatwick crews (LH and SH) warmer and more enthuiastic.

Best of all, in my experience, were the CC of the BA francises. The GB crew at Gatwick were brilliant and the Maersk crews at Birmingham even better.

Worst experience was on a flight to Mauritius 3/4 years back which got of to a bad start at the gate. A member of ground staff (complete b*sta*d), kicked off. We were called to the gate before he and his accomplices had chance to set up the desk for F and Club - He rudely told the first few who got there and were waiting to board that they were at the wrong desk and to get to the back of the WT queue. A Mauritian guy smiled and explained that the desk had not been signposted so no one knew. Our BA friend snatched his boarding pass and SHOUTED that he wasn't being allowed to board. The Ba***rd) then proceeded to do the same to the next passenger who intervened and objected.

A great start to a holiday (not) that leaves a nasty taste to this day. It didn't improve en route when the CSD (?) started throwing her weight around - didn't stop her grabbing a hug with an Irish boy band celebrity passenger as we disembarked the following morning.

I seem to recall (from the now closed BA Industrial Relations thread) that MRS was not CCs favourite gig. It showed.

[faffod]

My first flight with BA (BOAC) was 45 years ago from Karachi. I was travelling with a three week old baby and the crew were magnificent. It was such a pleasant experience that ever since, whenever possible, I flew BA. My love affair with BA came to a screeching halt in January of this year on a flight LAX/LHR. The FA was so rude I will never fly BA again.

[radeng]

I flew to CPH on Wednesday. Very pleasant purser who kept plying me with champagne. Came back Friday. 45 minutes late because original aircraft tech at LHR with non-functional lavatories. As I walk on, same purser and 'Hello Mr. radeng! Nice to see you again. Did you have a good week?'

Then more champagne.....although some of it got spilt on my trousers by the inadvertent move by the young lady in the adjacent seat - and not a Slasher type move, either!

[Rwy in Sight]

Last summer I used the case of BA purser, I had on my last flight to LHR, to point out the incredible ability of BA to be efficient, professional with an excellent sense of humor.

However when the issues of bad crew appear I am always wonder whether the airline allows them some latitude to handle the issue at hand or they may be accountable for any problem appears from a relaxed approach to the situation.

[LondonPax]

I generally find BA cabin crew to be excellent, on both long and short haul. On a trip back from Tokyo yesterday they weren't so great, though. Big saturday night out in Roppongi?

Having just been on a long business trip on BA, Quantas and Cathay, I found the Cathay cabin crew to be by far the best.

[thrubwell]

perhaps it is something to do with mauritius flights, two years ago we were also called to the gate before the desks were set up which led to a fair bit of angst.
the outbound crew were excellent in all aspects and a credit to BA, the return crew a fortnight later were having what appeared to be a bad day which they decided to share with one and all .

[Evanelpus]

the return crew a fortnight later were having what appeared to be a bad day which they decided to share with one and all

......and this is totally unacceptable under whatever circumstance. It shouldn't matter that they woke up late, they missed breakfast for whatever reason or had an early morning argument with their other half, being CC is all about being PROFESSIONAL. Sadly, some CC seem to think they have a god given right to be in the job, they are wrong.

First rule should be never take your problems into work and that should apply to most jobs out there.

[easyflyer83]

I agree but I also find it hard to believe that an entire 777 crew were so unprofessional and as described. Perhaps it shows that one or two bad apples can bring down an entire crew?

[CornishFlyer]

Shouldn't be a problem now the route has moved to LGW ;) :ok:

[L'aviateur]

I used to work for the cruise lines as an Officer, and had to regularly do safety briefs with guests, as well as stopping half way through a fire drill (in full fire kit) to explain politely to people what was happening if they hadn't heard the announcements.
Taking your attitude to work and being impolite or too brusk would have resulted in a disciplinary. But then working on the offshore rules they could be more strict without fear of comeback.

You learn't how to manage a crowd of people in a friendly and polite way, whilst affirming your authority and ensuring they understand the safety standards.

Now I work in yachting, and have to be even nicer!!!

[pax britanica]

Do not fly so much now but always been interested in these discussions. In my opinion BA CC would rate overall (1m air miles with them) as pretty good. Over that amount of flights that’s ok in my book-yes there are bad experiences but they occur everywhere. A telling point for me was travelling to Grenada some years ago and BA had disgracefully outsourced the cabin crew ops to another UK charter airline. They were pleasant and friendly boys and girls but within minutes of being on board I had this sense of something not right-not quite BA and it showed in a lack of professionalism.
As for good experiences elsewhere SAS in the early 1990s with a wonderful selection of silvery grey hostiles who were very good but usually much older than the flight deck. Malaysian who are friendlier than other Asian Airlines and Lauda-small airline unique style.
I think with BA the problem is that they are British and as a nation we are friendly most of the time but we can be very bloody minded and awkward- its kept us an independent nation for a thousand years so that’s not something we can easily disavow. As some posters have said the world is changing and T&Cs from the past don't work well or are hard to afford in today’s world. The problem comes when people are forced to concede status perks and money by people who are not in any way sharing the pain-in fact who are getting more money, perks and status. In this sort of situation our natural bloody mindedness kicks in and does sometimes show up as rudeness or poor service. I am not saying some crew are not to blame but just making an observation.
BA and UK are not alone in this Look at Qantas –oddly enough another nation with a stubborn streak – and read some of the threads on PPRUNE about how their management are regarded and what that has done to relationships and service and indeed is bringing the airline slowly to its knees.

[easyflyer83]

Shouldn't be a problem now the route has moved to LGW http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

MRU was a LHR Mixed Fleet route with crew on a similar contract and profile to SFLGW.

[Ancient Observer]

There is history, and there is now.

On the historic side, BA CC were the best mix of professionalism and service for me back in the 90s when I did two to four l/h per month. Whilst the asian carriers tried harder, the BA crew were just more professional. (I was BA gold and SQ gold).

However, time moves on, and all airlines are only as good as the CC were on your/my last flight. As the consultants point out, every "moment of truth" counts. So the lgw crew might be universally brilliant, but if you experience an lhr group on a bad day, then that is your memory of the airline.

[CornishFlyer]

Shouldn't be a problem now the route has moved to LGW ;) http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif MRU was a LHR Mixed Fleet route with crew on a similar contract and profile to SFLGW. Re-read what thrubwell says in his post. Mixed fleet wasn't in existence 2 years ago ;)

[easyflyer83]

I fully understood what thumbwell has said. All I was pointing out was that the move to LGW shouldn't make any difference as it's been a mixed fleet route of LHR. A rather crass generalisation is that Mixed fleet and single fleet LGW have a very similar mentality/ethos.

[DeepDene]

I think the "British" attitude sums it up very well with BA Cabin Crew. I've always found the cabin service routine to be very efficient and you notice the difference for example with many Gulf carriers where service can seem more enthusiastic but less efficient.
However, that British bloody mindedness unfortunately can and does kick in from time to time. I've never forgotten for example after a 6 hour delay out of Sao Paulo to Heathrow a few years back when the senior cabin crew member announced over the p.a. that the crew weren't going to serve breakfast before arrival because the crew had exceeded their contract duty time and didn't have to! No sugaring of the pill there; just straightforward crumby industrial relations flashed in the faces of the poor punter (dare I use the word Customer??).

The same unfortunately goes for other BA staff too - it's not just the crew. Anyone remember the check-in staff strike/go-slow a few years back and the marquees on the roof of Terminal 4 car park? Not forgetting queuing for hours at check-in for flights which had already departed empty? Distasteful and insulting!

I don't think BA staff are uniquely bad nor outstandingly good. What I really dislike intensely is being used as a fee-paying pawn in their IR games. I do have a choice however so while I don't specifically avoid BA, I will happily use other carriers if the ticket price and shedule are right.

[pwalhx]

I have to agree with an earlier poster that in general the short haul CC do seem to be a lot friendlier than Long Haul.

I have flown several times over the last year with BA to Hong Kong and always have this overwhelming feeling on the flight to/from Heathrow/Hong Kong that the CC are doing me a great favour allowing me to fly with them.

Given that and the fact the insistance on using BA from on high has gone my next two trips are booked on EK. So I would suggest I am a fine example of people voting with their feet.

[flying lid]

Every flight, every airline.

Board, stash bag, sit down, set watch to destination time, phones on, listen to musak / watch video, accept everything offered, dont ask for anything else, eat it / drink it, go for a **** (beat the queue), sleep, land, let every else bugger off (unless in a hurry), collect bag, disembark with sickly grin and a "thank you".

Works every time !!

[Evanelpus]

Board, stash bag, sit down, set watch to destination time, phones on, listen to musak / watch video, accept everything offered, dont ask for anything else, eat it / drink it, go for a **** (beat the queue), sleep, land, let every else bugger off (unless in a hurry), collect bag, disembark with sickly grin and a "thank you".

That's how BA CC get through a long haul trip, I always wondered!

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I used to fly for BA and in those days thought the airline especially the CC were the best in the world (mid 80's-1991) A couple of years ago I was positioning back from a long duty tour (seven weeks) flying around the world with some very demanding pax. Tired and looking forward to getting home I boarded a BA flight at Miami for LHR, pleased to be flying with BA and starting to relax properly.

The aircraft routed up the eastern seaboard of the States and I was enjoying the view of so many palces I have vistited in America when a hostess poked me on the shoulder and said "Oi darling close that window blind" I told her I would close it when I was ready, she then broke into a rant about waking me to make me close it later. I complained to the purser, 4 witnesses backed me up and then I complained formally to BA.

I have heard nothing since, I now only travel BA in desperation and as far as possible we no longer position crews by BA, that woman has cost BA about 120 business class seats and 200 World Traveller seats per year.

[vctenderness]

Well look on the bright side at least she called you Darling:}

[Captain_Bling]

What I cannot comprehend despite reading every single post in this thread is HOW some (not all) cabin crew can lapse into being this rude.

I have observed, studied and even applied for the training they undergo to get the job in the first place and I can vouch for just how difficult it is. Any new graduate from such a program would be the model of customer service excellence even though they'd probably be quite nervous at first.

I think thats where the problem lies. CC settle into their roles, relax a bit, and then it become mundane. Slowly their lives and jobs become burdened with company bull***t and rude passengers (yes passengers are rude more often than crew) and as a result their passion for what they do wanes. It happens to people in all organisations where the company neglects its staff in favour of short term gain.

During BA's prosperity days I received superb service from them, after 9/11 and the paranoia that came in its wake they were jumped up, edgy and actually gave me a primary school telling off := after i made a harmless joke at check in. I know what you're thinking, rest assured the joke really was harmless, only someone under massive duress would have taken it any other way.

I've applied for several cabin crew positions but am always turned down on account of the Pilot Training i've done. I would kill to have their jobs and yet the airline says 'no'. I've done mimimum wage jobs where I've endured hell from customers and management for next to nothing in return and always presented myself in a friendly way. I'm not particularly special, I just care about what I do - but that said, even I could lose it one day and snap if somebody pushed me hard enough.

And that raises the question of "just how much cr*p are crew forced to endure to turn them this way despite their training?" What kind of circumstances would force someone who cares to adopt a looking down their nose attitude as a coping strategy?

Its true that airlines would rather each passenger was paying £3000 a seat, economically it makes sense despite it being inviable. But its not true that they condone a way of thinking that rear passengers or any passengers for that matter are an inconvenience. They may say it as a joke, casual banter to ease tension, but its not something to be overheard or taken seriously. Any airline that preached such a philosophy would get straight minded staff like me walking out in disgust and that would cripple their reputation.

At the end of the day they are there to make money and lots of it. But to do this they need to serve and serve well. Which brings me round in a loop to my opening line - why don't quality control managers open their eyes and take note of the rudeness on display? Only 1 in 4 p*ssed off people make a formal complaint sure but feedback does reach the airlines. Virgin have a massive call centre in Swansea, Wales just to take such feedback.

The problem I think resides in human nature. Our behaviour mirrors our internal state of mind to a greater extent. Sure, you can hide your irritation behind a charming smile but for how long? Would you then take it out on someone who totally didn't deserve such as a passenger who just wanted another pillow or your kids when you got home? Companies need to have an ethos where staff can express their concerns freely, at appropriate times and not work constantly in fear of losing their jobs if management find out they dont like something. Take Emirates for example, they have an outstanding corporate culture and they score top notch for service not just business class. Coincidence? True, they're a tough company to get into but thats the whole point, only those who REALLY care can get in, as oppose to those who fake it. And once the good guys and girls are in, they STAY good or get even better with time. This is the blueprint for true customer service excellence. So why can't the majority of organisations be arsed to adopt it? I have no answer to that one - if anyone does please let me know.

[Curious Pax]

I'm surprised management culture hasn't come up so far in this thread. In a large organisation particularly, the culture of the company is set from the top 2-3 levels of management.

I also work for a large (non-aviation) organisation, and we have an arm that a few years ago was managed by an obnoxious know-it-all who managed by confrontation both within his own division and with other parts of the company, and this attitude was reflected all the way down the line of that division. After a while he moved to another post, and his successor was totally different - collaborative in every way. Within 3 months the character of interaction with that division had changed dramatically for the better, leading to a better atmosphere for all concerned. The productivity and right-first-time stats also improved, so people were working at least as hard, but the new culture was much more suited to better outcomes all round.

I didn't experience the before and after, but I understand that generally speaking this is the effect that Gordon Bethune had when he turned Continental around.

Perhaps we are loking in the wrong place for the source of the problem?

[Ancient Observer]

Curious and Bling.
There is a well-studied approach to sectors with high customer interaction. It is called the "service-profit" chain, and was in Harvard Business review some years ago. Google "service-profit chain"

The culture is critical, and the culture is set by the managers. (Google Glowinkowski for a better understanding of climate/culture). One very large oil Co can predict profitability of each unit by the management style of the manager at each business unit. One very large retailer only promotes managers based on the culture/climate that they create.
However, to get to putting this stuff right, you have to remove sources of poison first.
I guess that is why BA did what it did, in terms of taking on bassa. However, I still suspect that the middle managers at BA aren't yet getting it right at lhr. They appear to get it right at lgw and London City.

[Chuchinchow]

Perhaps someone will tell the sour-faced harridan who denied me a second can of Diet Coke yesterday morning (in CE!) when I travelled JER-LGW that her high-handed attitude did very little to endear either herself or her employers to me?

She even had the effrontery to chide me, "We have to think of the needs of others, you know".

[grassy]

I had a similar issue on the way back from SFO to LHR. Breakfast service came and i asked for cereal and if I could keep the fruit salad (note no bacon sarnie or muffins). I was told there may not be enough fruit salad to go around - all i got after that was 'dramatic ignoring' . This was in Business and the seat cost £5k.

[Matt101]

The last two posts of experienced rudeness are in my opinion not the fault of the crew but of BA and your fellow passengers. You can't have the cereal and the fruit salad because BA load enough breakfasts for one each, with maybe some extras, and on a trip to Jersey you couldn't have extra diet coke (yuck) because BA return cater the trip and there may not be enough for the return.

Now what should each Cabin Crew member do? Well really they should serve you what you ask for and deal with the potential problems later as professionally as possible, the trouble is these days people don't react well.

As ex BA crew I always recount the time in J during that god awful breakfast service that we ran out of the rancid Bacon rolls the pax in suits were always so fond of (personally I cant keep anything down at 4am), before landing. Now I like my Bacon but I don't think I've ever called anyone a self pleasuring son of a lady dog because I couldn't get one. However that day someone decided to call me such because quite clearly I wasn't "f****g sorry".

Now this was my one and only snapping point at BA but thankfully i went to the flight deck and snapped there (I asked the Captain if he would mind me swearing out the window at nothing in particular first). In with hate out with love and galley's aren't sound proof as I was taught.

This was one of many similar occurrences, and for some reason I went back for more, doing my best for each passenger that came along and trying to solve problems where company policy lead to a deficiency.

I did it for 3 years, but I imagine that after longer self preservation starts to kick in.

Is it easier to be rude and abrupt to one passenger who is nice or receive abuse from the next miserable SOB that you can't help however much you try? Now I know some of you will whine "but thats their job" blah blah blah. BS it is nobodies job to put up with a society which in the last decade has become increasingly obnoxious when things go wrong. Sadly all suffer.

That and there are some Wagon Dragon's who should have given up years ago.

If you don't agree ask yourself this, do you always do your job absolutely perfectly or sometimes, when you've gone 11 months since that last holiday, do you pick the route of least attrition?

Sorry for the rant but these threads p me off something rotten Name any large company and I will find you 500 people who love them and 500 who loathe them easily. for the loathsome, sorry those who loathe to then demonise part of that company to get it out their system is self indulgent in the extreme....... you didn't like it when I said society is becoming obnoxious did you?

fills wine glass again

[crewmeal]

Matt101 The last two posts of experienced rudeness are in my opinion not the fault of the crew but of BA and your fellow passengers.

How can you say that!!!! If a product is not available onboard or the crew have run out of cokes, surely the simple thing would be to suggest an alternative, NOT patronise passengers. Didn't they teach you that in Cranebank? They did when I was there in 1972.

If a passenger insults you for not providing what they want that is a different matter. I was taught there is always more than one way to skin a cat, and that line has proved so useful.

[grassy]

Firstly, the cereal is never offered and I dont suppose they have a box for every PAX. Secondly, his trolly had a number of un-eaten salads. He was just been bloody minded.

[GrahamO]

and on a trip to Jersey you couldn't have extra diet coke (yuck) because BA return cater the trip and there may not be enough for the return.Plain illogical.

If someone asks for something, and you have it, then give it to them. If you hold onto stuff in case someone else wants it, you lose automatically on the return leg if someone does not ask for it. You have unnecessarily upset a client just because the airline couldn't get its planning right. And you don't get a consequential delighted customer on the return leg to offset it.

If OTOH, someone does want one on the return leg, and you're out it will be something for the statisticians to learn from overall when stocking up for future flights, and they will be grumpy but understand more than being told you are saving it for someone else who may want it more than them.

To hold back stuff from sale in case someone else wants to buy it later is just plain old silly. Imagine if they did that to you at a checkout at a supermarket !

[Matt101]

Nice to see you all read the post in it's entirety :ugh:

[Matt101]

Matt101

How can you say that!!!! If a product is not available onboard or the crew have run out of cokes, surely the simple thing would be to suggest an alternative, NOT patronise passengers.

and GrahamO's blah blah blah too

Now what should each Cabin Crew member do? Well really they should serve you what you ask for and deal with the potential problems later as professionally as possible,

[TightSlot]

There is one other "Kind" of High-Time Flight Attendant - one who still likes their job, is still good at it (in fact is better than the youngsters), still likes passengers (apart from the very occasional idiot) and uses their skill and experience to resolve customer issues in a sensible, adult and empathetic manner.

They tend not to get discussed, but they exist, and I'd suggest that there may be more of them than is appreciated?

[Matt101]

I tend to agree which is why I returned hot air for hot air. Not very mature of me TS I am sorry. First time I've read much down here, probably should be the last.

[easyflyer83]

Like everyones post here, my experience (both as crew and passenger) is anecdotal.

I'm a number 1 and relatively young at 28 (ok can't say that for much longer) but it is quite surprising at how passengers attitudes can be towards certain crew. When I have a more mature crew, say late 30's and older) passengers generally are a lot more polite. However a lot of younger crew are spoken to like :mad: sometimes and I am of the firm belief that this is because people feel it is either more acceptable or that they are able to get away with it. Such is the negative perception of young people these days. By contrast I find older people much ruder. Complete generalistion of course but that is my experience. I can kindly ask passengers to do something using sir/madam and I can be snapped at or questioned. Younger people tend to not be like that.

By the same token, I know an older female crew member is rude on a regular basis to passengers. Younger crew tend to be more enthusiastic and friendly, if not necassarilly the best at the job. One thing about some younger crew is that they can be good at the job, friendly and polite but not always the most professional. If that makes sense.

I do also think that perception plays a huge part. One thing I am aware of at work is that many people will be judging you....... we have a captive audience. It's amazing how many people I catch just watching me like they would a film. Nothing wrong with that but it makes me very self conscious. But it was particularly evident one day when a older passenger retorted as she disembarked that I need to smile more as I look miserable. I am professional and polite at work if not the most smiliest person but it goes to show that the passenger, despite being slightly rude, and even though I was polite and efficient, still took me the wrong way.

I'm not trying to excuse rude crew but I just thought my experience might add something to the debate.

[PAXboy]

LineriderIn the UK, for some people there is clearly a stigma attached to providing customer service.
Ah, have you experienced customer service in South Africa? Amongst other nations of the world, SA doesn't do customer service in the way that many expect it. Don't expect service in a SA restaurant to be as you get in Germany.

That's not bad - it's just different! ;)

[easyflyer83]

I personally don't see much stigma in working in customer service in the UK. Not like there is in the US anyway.

[bondim]

Paxboy,

I have a completely opposite experience re customer service in SA. I spent a week in CPT in October, and have recieved friendly and attentive service everywhere I went. :ok:

[radeng]

I's very noticeable that frequently on BA, the DF whisky runs out on the homeward run. CC have told me that many times, they have requested management to load extra stocks of alcohol and cigarettes on the runes to Switzerland and their requests are always ignored.

There are times that one feels the whole purpose of BA management is pi** off customers and crew. Although I see certain European flights have again got hot towels in CE.

[Chuchinchow]

I wonder if Matt101 was having an off day, whether he was "tired and emotional", or just behaving normally when he told us:

The last two posts of experienced rudeness are in my opinion not the fault of the crew but of BA and your fellow passengers. You can't have the cereal and the fruit salad because BA load enough breakfasts for one each, with maybe some extras, and on a trip to Jersey you couldn't have extra diet coke (yuck) because BA return cater the trip and there may not be enough for the return.

Now what should each Cabin Crew member do? Well really they should serve you what you ask for and deal with the potential problems later as professionally as possible, the trouble is these days people don't react well.

As ex BA crew I always recount the time in J during that god awful breakfast service that we ran out of the rancid Bacon rolls the pax in suits were always so fond of (personally I cant keep anything down at 4am), before landing. Now I like my Bacon but I don't think I've ever called anyone a self pleasuring son of a lady dog because I couldn't get one. However that day someone decided to call me such because quite clearly I wasn't "f****g sorry".

Now this was my one and only snapping point at BA but thankfully i went to the flight deck and snapped there (I asked the Captain if he would mind me swearing out the window at nothing in particular first). In with hate out with love and galley's aren't sound proof as I was taught.

This was one of many similar occurrences, and for some reason I went back for more, doing my best for each passenger that came along and trying to solve problems where company policy lead to a deficiency.

I did it for 3 years, but I imagine that after longer self preservation starts to kick in.

Is it easier to be rude and abrupt to one passenger who is nice or receive abuse from the next miserable SOB that you can't help however much you try? Now I know some of you will whine "but thats their job" blah blah blah. BS it is nobodies job to put up with a society which in the last decade has become increasingly obnoxious when things go wrong. Sadly all suffer.

That and there are some Wagon Dragon's who should have given up years ago.

If you don't agree ask yourself this, do you always do your job absolutely perfectly or sometimes, when you've gone 11 months since that last holiday, do you pick the route of least attrition?

Sorry for the rant but these threads p me off something rotten Name any large company and I will find you 500 people who love them and 500 who loathe them easily. for the loathsome, sorry those who loathe to then demonise part of that company to get it out their system is self indulgent in the extreme....... you didn't like it when I said society is becoming obnoxious did you?

Well, if your attitude to paying passengers is indicative of the rest of BA's cabin crew, in future I will:

(a) Complain vigorously to your employers, citing flight number and the relevant cabin crew members' names,

(b) Take my business elsewhere,

(c) Buy a can or bottle of Diet Coke (don't knock it too much, Matt101) in the departures area and raise two metaphorical fingers in your direction as you carry out your in-flight duties entirely to your own satisfaction.

If these threads p me off something rotten why do you even bother to read them in the first place, Matt101? Why get yourself worked up in the first place?

Oh no, I forgot: Matt101 is no longer employed by BA. If he has the effrontery to declare The last two posts of experienced rudeness are in my opinion not the fault of the crew but of BA and your fellow passengers.

there can be little wonder as to why he is no longer employed by British Airways. With an attitude like that towards his employer and its customers he really must have been a wonderful asset to the cabin crew community.

[PAXboy]

bondim Glad that you have found it so. SA is a very mixed bag. The big hotels are good, when travelling out from the centres, allow more time for service to happen!

matt101 I agree that society has changed considerably in the past 30 years and that folks are more demanding and impatient and rude. But that's life and that's the job of CC, in any carrier. Those that don't like the change in society and prefer not to deal with it in that job, will leave it as you (apparently) have.

I work in a field where, for the most part, the clients are cooperative and appreciative of the service being given. However ... last year: immediately following completion of my duties, I was told by the family how well I had done and that it had gone as they wanted. Only 24 hours later, I was telephoned to say that I had done terribly, made a complete mess of everything and they were going to ensure that I was not paid.

Go figure that but I can be sure that CC meet the same kind of behaviour.

radengThere are times that one feels the whole purpose of BA management is ...As you know, the whole purpose of BA mgmt is to meet targets and to put out the least amount of cost for the maximum amount of revenue. :=

That, of itself, is what shareholders demand BUT I wonder what those faceless fund managers demand when they get on board? Do they want ALL the service that, as shareholders, they deny the mgmt??? :hmm:

[crewmeal]

I's very noticeable that frequently on BA, the DF whisky runs out on the homeward run. CC have told me that many times, they have requested management to load extra stocks of alcohol and cigarettes on the runes to Switzerland and their requests are always ignored.

I can't see the problem of loading a dozen or so extra mins of whiskey into a bar. Also I can't see the problem with cigarettes as well. I would have thought the latter would create extra revenue for the company.

I appreciate that you can't please everyone with alcoholic beverages, but in my view management should sit down and work out what sells and what doesn't. A prime management function in this day and age so I would have thought.

[vctenderness]

Logistics dear boy, logistics!

Stowage space is limited and bars are standard. I think the original post was referring to Duty Free bottles of Whisky not miniatures. Even on routes with mega DF sales such as Lagos the bars are standard.

I know that each route sales are scrutinized and adjusted but this usually on a seasonal basis.

[radeng]

You would think that they could arrange to have a second DF trolley in the hold and have them swapped at Geneva. As they are locked anyway, the chance of pilferage is reduced.

[PAXboy]

You know what you're problem is radeng? You're an engineer that likes to solve problems and you go around offering free solutions. Really - do you think that you can come up with a solution that has not already been carefully evaluated by BA mgmt? If the DF trolley is empty, then it's empty for a good reason and that reason is none of your business. := :p

ps To work out a solution requires 'out of the trolley thinking' :}
[yes, I know it's Sunday afternoon and I'm bored. I'm going to signal for the CC to bring me a mug of tea and some M&S Choc Chip Cookies. :ok: Oh, I forgot, there's no CC :sad: off to put the kettle on ...]

[SLF3]

The problem for BA CC is they don't believe in the product any more. And nor do the passengers.

[ExXB]

The problem for BA CC is they don't believe in the product any more. And nor do the passengers.No, the problem is that BA management thinks they have a superior product, but they don't.

Radeng - flying an extra trolly back and forth to their Swiss destinations on every flight isn't such a good idea. However putting an extra container on once a week/fortnight to resupply BA's DF Stores at Swiss Airports shouldn't be too difficult. Give the stuff to the Lounge Dragons, it would give them something to do, other than studying their "How to make your customers hate you" manuals.

[Yellow Pen]

No, the problem is that BA management thinks they have a superior product, but they don't.

Quite the opposite actually. BA management are fully aware that their product is inferior to many of their competitors which is why they are beginning to throw money at the problem. There's certainly no belief from any manager of significance that they have a world-beating product.

[WHBM]

I've read all of these posts above and, as regulars here probably know too well by now, am often the first to complain about everything.

In the 40 years of paxing since BA came along (and indeed back to their predecessors) I have NEVER, not once, encountered rudeness from any BA staff*. Either I have the most amazing luck, or they actually are a cut above the rest, somehow not reflected here for some reason.

Well done all. See you soon :) .

.

* : Certainly not something I can say about US carriers, but on reflection it does apply to every UK one.

[ExXB]

Quite the opposite actually. BA management are fully aware that their product is inferior to many of their competitors which is why they are beginning to throw money at the problem. There's certainly no belief from any manager of significance that they have a world-beating product.

I was talking about Senior Staff Management. Anyone on the line knows the truth.

[grassy]

Just got off a flight to Bermuda - the entertainment system was the old one which is completely unacceptable and really poor quality sound and vision.

[ilesmark]

(Quote function not working properly) - It's very noticeable that frequently on BA, the DF whisky runs out on the homeward run. CC have told me that many times, they have requested management to load extra stocks of alcohol and cigarettes on the runes to Switzerland and their requests are always ignored

Try flying Emirates. They NEVER run out of alcohol :D

[Lemain]

FWIW I very seldom come across a crabby FA in any airline...sometimes they are rushed off their feet on short haul when service has been delayed for some reason. However, surprisingly, in Europe my vote is Monarch, Ryan Air then Easy Jet, for FAs. Monarch are a dream.

[SLF3]

In the last 9 months I have been long haul business class on Continental, Air France, Iberia and TAM. All were significantly better than the two BA flights(to Houston and Rio). The planes were filthy, the seats falling apart, the IFE unwatchable, the food embarassingly bad and the staff went through the motions but no more. BA was between 20 and 100% more expensive than we typically pay on the route.

Also went short haul economy to Copenhagen - again old, tired, dirty planes. Can't comment on the service - there wasn't any.

[lakerman]

In the last 30 years, I had more flying hours than most crews achieve within the same period. My company preferred us, if possible, to fly BA. Most of us, if we could wangle it, flew on anything but BA. Reason, if you were First class, they would fawn over you, if you were Club, they would put up with you, but heaven forbid if you were Economy, they just ignored you. I was traveling back from the US into LHR in the late 80's and I was reading a novel by Brian Lecomber, an aerobatic flyer at one time with the Rothmans Team, and his opening paragraph in his third novel started with the words "I was flying on the worlds most arrogant airline" Anybody who ever read the book new immediately which airline he was referring to. It always summed up the We Fly, To Serve motto as I always found them to be the worst when it came to service on board, I much preferred Dan-Air, Laker and Virgin to anything BA served up.

[ZFT]

BA really is getting a bashing on this thread.

I rarely fly on them anymore and if I do it’s only short haul so I can’t comment on today’s situation but whilst I wouldn’t dare claim to fly more than the crews do, I utilized BA long haul significantly in the late 80s and early 90s and then their product was amongst the finest out there.
Posts stating that then they had the worst service on board are IMHO totally unjustified.

Then their entertainment and service in the premium cabins was also amongst the best. Customer Service also then worked extremely well.

[pwalhx]

With all due respect zft you say you are not in a position to comment and then go on to do so. Your comments may be true or the 80's and 90's but sadly it is not true today. The truth of the matter is BA are expensive and the service does not warrant the price being paid and therein lies the problem. Many people much like myself are voting with their feet and getting a better service at a better price elsewhere.

[philrigger]

;)

To hold back stuff from sale in case someone else wants to buy it later is just plain old silly. Imagine if they did that to you at a checkout at a supermarket !

Exactly. Its like the storeman who refuses to hand over the last screw in the box because someone else might want it.

Phil.

[GROUNDHOG]

Agree with pwalhx - I really want BA to be the carrier I have loved over many years but sadly they are not at the moment. Some aspects of BA are still so good but at the sharp end the aircraft I have been on have been tired and dirty and the crews have just looked a bit fed up in general and just not engaging with the passengers.

[Matt101]

I wonder if Matt101 was having an off day, whether he was "tired and emotional", or just behaving normally when he told us:



Well, if your attitude to paying passengers is indicative of the rest of BA's cabin crew, in future I will:



Oh no, I forgot: Matt101 is no longer employed by BA. If he has the effrontery to declare

there can be little wonder as to why he is no longer employed by British Airways. With an attitude like that towards his employer and its customers he really must have been a wonderful asset to the cabin crew community.

Thanks for your reply, If you re read my post you'll see that I pointed out that i never believed that the way the crew handled the problems were correct I merely laid out the reasons why I feel some crew act the way they do now.

The posts on this forum go little way in convincing me that dealing with the British Customer of today and a management watching the profit line sometimes to the detriment of product as a route cause is a misconception.

Not that it really matters but I left BA voluntarily for a role in aviation I preferred however I would be happy to share a number of positive letters BA received naming me whilst I was at BA as well as my employee reviews. I loved the job and the Brand and for the most part passengers are great, but I maintain the go to attitude of many people these days when dissappointed is rudness and diatribe. I believe this is a route cause of a lot of the sour faces people claim to see onboard.

Being sworn at because you've run out of a product the company have been repeatedly told is in constant shortage does nothing to endear you to the management or certain pax. I managed to smile through it others don't I suppose.

I replied to the thread because I felt 4 pages of people being rude about crew without someone attempting to explain some reasons behing the attitude you encountered was unbalanced... that and I had some wine....

[PAXboy]

I have worked in areas that are closely connected to the customer (usually face to face) for 35 years and am now self-employed in a field that requires the utmost sensitivity.

I agree that customers - of all types - are now highly unpredictable. There is no guessing who will be pleasant for 99% of the time and then flare up. I admire CC for the work they do and have not experienced a seriously rude retort from one for more than 20 years. Those that occasionally get a little 'frosty' are few and far between.

I am no saint but am often deeply saddened by the way I see staff treated by customers (again, across all areas not just aviation) and would never advise anyone to take up a customer facing job in the airline world. Not least as Matt101 says, you are having to defend the indefensible mgmt!

[Matt101]

I feel I should also add that I don't see it as a sole reason. As in all jobs some people should not be doing them. I don't see that as being specific to BA or its crew though.

Crew generally, I feel do a good job of keeping a stiff upper lip, even when they've run out of bloody mary mix (or had it removed from the trolley as part of a cost cutting exercise.....)

A lot of ill will towards the crew I feel is misplaced, but then I don't blame anyone else in entirety either.

[PAXboy]

Indeed Matt101 as with so many things in life, the problem is it's own Swiss cheese. The factors that have brought BA's reputation down are manifold and all interlink. Some factors mitigate others and then some build on the previous.

ALL human groups do this, be they commercial companies, charities or political parties. It is human nature that we are dealing with. Unfortunately, at the end of it all, BA is not what it was but then, nor is PanAm or TWA or Swiss Air or <insert carrier name here>.

Or ... American Airlines. Not gone but certainly in exactly the same problem as many others. they are fortunate to have the fabled USA bolt hole. Wait to see how many folks lose their pensions.

[radeng]

Sunday Nov 20.

Heathrow and fog. BA344 delayed 1 hour before eventual boarding at 1320. Get boarded, ready to go, announced a 1 hour further delay before a tug can be obtained. When eventually there is a tug and clearance from ATC, we are 4 hours late. Crew extremely good, bringing out water, tea, nuts. FO comes back to chat to customers. That crew - CC and flight deck - really went out of their way to make the ethos of 'To fly to serve' actually happen. They had also started their day by getting up at 4am UK time in Munich....

So the PAX weren't happy with the delay, but also weren't pi**ed off with the crew.

I've also never had such a short take off run at LHR, a very rapid climb and we picked up 20 minutes on the way to Nice.

[aviaton wizz]

I've enjoyed reading this thread profusely, all of you made very excellent points, I've always admired British Airways from a kid I always loved to see the Ground Staff and the Cabin Crew.

I flew BGI-LGW WT+ recently and as we were climbing the Cabin Manager made an announcement that the in flight entertainment had broken down on the inbound flight and the problem was not rectified so there will be no entertainment, and this was an 8hr fllight, the Cabin Crew were fantastic they gave us lots of attention on the it was like they never took a break.

On the flight LGW-BGI it was a total difference in crew, the flight was full of indians joining the cruise liner in Bridgetown and I found the crew was very rude to them, I even saw one of the ladies rolling her eyes at some of them and her body language told it all, when it came to serving me the flight attendant was not paying attention to what she was doing she served me salad and desert and not the actual food, myself and the gentelmen was trying to get her attention for over 5mins to tell her that I did not receive my beef that I requested.

She brought it dumped it on the tray threw her hair back no sorry nothing, earlier in the flight when she was serving drinks I asked for an orange juice and she handed me the cup over the gentelman next to me while talking and looking at her colleague and not paying attention to me or the guy next to me, she released the cup before I had a firm grip and it spilled on the guy next to me, we could not believe that she was being so negligent and she was not remorseful at all.

There are fantastic crews and really rude crews, I've flown American Airlines tons of times and I find that they have the worst crew ever thats my opnion of a BAD crew/service. I have an interview coming up soon for MF with BA its one of my goals to work for BA I love the company but there is indeed some serious slackness that needs to be dealt with, some crews can be nasty for no reason, no one in my cabin was rude to them but they were extremely rude and very familiar on the LGW-BGI leg.

[cym]

fly around 10 sectors a month on BA - never have a problem - certainly remain my airline of preference