Air China Contract [Archive]

gardenshed

20th Oct 2011, 05:33

Is there any contract pilot who would be willing to give an idea of what life is like.
I'm thinking of looking at the commuting contract as a DEC, do you get enough time off to make it work and which agency are you with do they give you enough support.

Thanks in advance.

horsefly

21st Oct 2011, 01:20

Can anybody give a typical roster to view too please?
B777 that is.

Cheers

ROKSupaStar

1st Nov 2011, 02:15

Get a Agency who are based in Asia.

But I heard Air China is also Hiring A330 Captains Salaly 11000per month.

But I also recommand Juneyao Airlines. They paid more!!!:ok:

Fareastdriver

1st Nov 2011, 09:38

have a look at this first before you consider Juneyao.

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/462269-dont-look-job-juneyao.html

Karunch

2nd Nov 2011, 10:06

Perhaps one of the Air China LHR or FRA based A330 Capts may wish to comment- having had their base almost closed & now closed (Fra). This represents over 30% of the CA foreign Capt group. You might not like what you hear.

No 777 crew on line yet and with the current offering- unlikely to be for some time.

break_break

3rd Nov 2011, 09:58

Good point Karunch,
I say those of us who can afford to, just stay off the grid.
Pretty amusing to read post #3, it seems like the idiots from recruitment are just running out of ideas. They must be hoping that all foreigners will be as dumb as them, to sign up anyhow.
Judging from the way the Chinese are treating foreigners, I'm pretty happy to stay put in the sandpit.

twentyyearstoolate

3rd Nov 2011, 10:12

Seems Air China AND China Southern actively recruiting for T7 Captains. Both contracts seem identical in terms of salary. 15k + 1k housing.

Wish they would start a pay war! ... Dream on! :}

break_break

3rd Nov 2011, 15:34

twentyyearstoolate
Great sense of humor, looks like enough desperate chaps are feeding the supply chain, too bad.

Arthole

3rd Nov 2011, 20:01

As one of the previous says .

1 Bases closing with no notice .

2 No crm on fd

3 Chinese spoken by crew members

4 Medical every 6 months , every one fails it at some stage , no fly no pay !

5 Out of 40 pilots on the 330 8 left this year , 3 more resignations pending

6 Zero communication from company

Need i go on ?

hongkongfooey

5th Nov 2011, 06:37

Art, there may be no CRM on the FD but at least you can smoke if you want, coz they sure as hell will :yuk:

zhang xu

11th Dec 2011, 15:27

Nothing to add, just to put back this thread back up on the headlines sothat everyone is aware of this shiity outfit/contract Air China has become

Stay Away from Air China

billabongbill

12th Dec 2011, 00:30

Zhang...are you gunning to be the chief pilot ( expats ) by scaring away potential deserving ones?

Chief pilot ( expats ) would be a very big catch of a gweilo for some pretty gold digging china doll.

zhang xu

12th Dec 2011, 12:14

Chief Pilot ????
You have never been here !!!!!
Just come and see by yourself if you don' t trust insiders !!!!
but then don' t complain like a china doll "If Just I knew ..."

Ta4eiqwailo

12th Dec 2011, 17:31

Wondered who died and made you the king of Air China affairs?

You can have your opinions and post your sad stories; but don't shout and try to ram your butt around.

zhang xu

15th Dec 2011, 14:23

Come and join us and our pain, feel free !!!!!

More sh:mad:t coming soon from the management

increase in productivity
base closures
overall package review for worse as usual
overall working conditions eroding

feel free to add to this list

zhang xu

23rd Dec 2011, 08:33

Nothing new, still the same s:mad:t

Bonus this year is a chinese made lamp..... No kidding.....

wonder what's chinese new year surprise's gonna be... ?? any thoughts ??

fake Jeppesen handbook ?
Hacked automated rostering system ?
CCQ from A330 to B777-200LR domesctic only ?
english courses sponsored by foreign captains' group ?

Stay away from Air China

A380driver

23rd Dec 2011, 12:31

Dear Zhang Xu,
I think you have done a great job in going against Air China. Assuming I'm moving my arse there, I can deal with all the points you highlighted but..

CCQ from A330 to B777-200LR domesctic only ?

Seriously? There better be some good evidence on this. Air China might have just helped solved the world shortages of experience pilots on both types.

B737NG

24th Dec 2011, 06:58

You forgott the Dog and the Pilot = You can deduct 50% of your payroll expenses by adding the Dog to the Crew, he bites if the Pilot touches anything at the flightdeck except the treats and feed the Dog.

All is faked? No the fake became reality, all hacked and faked, largest population on earth with lowest innovation and creativity ?

Keep coming with the comments, it makes me smiling to read more of those comments and statements.

Ta4eiqwailo

24th Dec 2011, 07:08

Self proclaimed superior lab species with the best of everything in the world and yet have to come and beg for ****ty jobs here.....hmmmmm, that says a lot, loud and irrevocably clear!

eagle135

16th Jan 2012, 14:23

Chinese carriers could be banned from Europe over ETS row

(http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flightglobal.com%2Fnews%2Farti cles%2Fchinese-carriers-could-be-banned-from-europe-over-ets-row-366723%2F%3Fcp%3DNLC-FGFIN20120110%26attr%3Deditorial&t=Chinese%20carriers%20could%20be%20banned%20from%20Europe%2 0over%20ETS%20row&src=sp)

Print (javascript:window.print())

By: Kirsty McGregor (http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/kirsty%20mcgregor.html) London
10:20 10 Jan 2012
Source: http://www.pprune.org/images/articlesources/flightinternational.png (http://www.qssweb.co.uk/rbpsubs/default.aspx?title=fin&entry=new&subtype=a&prom=1469)

Chinese airlines could be banned from operating to Europe if they persistently refuse to pay charges for their carbon emissions, the European Commission has warned.
The China Air Transport Association, which represents the country's four major airlines, including flag carrier Air China, is reported to have said that it would not comply with the European Union's Emissions Trading System (ETS), which came into effect on 1 January.
In response, the European Commission pointed to the ETS directive, which allows for the imposition of an operating ban on any airline which consistently breaks EU law.
However, a spokesperson said this would be used only as a "last resort". Other penalties could include a €100 ($130) penalty charge for each tonne of carbon dioxide emitted for which an airline has not surrendered allowances.
Airlines are due to surrender allowances for their 2012 emissions on flights to and from Europe in April 2013.
Meanwhile, Lufthansa has made it clear that it will pass on the cost ETS to its customers through higher ticket prices.
The German carrier expects the scheme to generate additional expenses of approximately €130 million ($169 million) in 2012.
These costs will be included in the existing fuel surcharge, the company said, which it last raised in December, two weeks before ETS came into force. The airline added it has "no immediate plans" to raise the fuel surcharge again, but did not rule out a later increase.
"European operators are now facing additional costs which will make flying within and via Europe more expensive for passengers," said group board member Carsten Spohr.
The EU will provide 85% of the required carbon dioxide certificates free of charge in 2012, while 15% will have to be purchased by the airlines. In the 2013-20 period, airlines will receive 82% of their allowances for free, with 3% being reserved by the EU for new entrants and fast-growing airlines.
Lufthansa calculated that it will need to buy "at least 35% of the certificates it needs", due to the group's growth in recent years. The carbon credit allocations are based on average emissions between 2004 and 2006.
US carrier Delta has also tagged on a $3 surcharge on flights from the US to Europe.

Rondo Alla Turca

16th Jan 2012, 14:41

Maybe a ploy to get the Chinese to rescue the Euro.

Krueger

2nd Feb 2012, 19:34

It looks like Air China is accepting A320 Captains to CCQ to A330. Hainan started doing this but this new deal is better.

Fight's On.

Check Six, Krueger

Arthole

2nd Feb 2012, 19:50

I think not !

1 The contract is not worth the paper , everything will be ignored .

2 1 to 2 months conversion ! the guys who are rated don t do it in less than 3

3 European bases , Frankfurt closed with 1 weeks notice , Lhr next , within 2 years unlikely any european bases at all

4 2 years in beijing the most polluted / expensive city in the world

5 2 years of domestic flying , 6 hr dealays the norm , no duty limits as No 2 to a chines captain with no crm who does nt speak english

6 Your licence n logbook belong to them , good luck converting your licence with no originals

Karunch

3rd Feb 2012, 01:40

You are right, Air China intend to take A320 Captains & upgrade to the A330.

Beware.

You will have a type rating and subsequently Pic2 (cruise Captain) hours on a non-Icao license that cannot be used anywhere else. Ask the former Eva cruise Capts.
You will have been 'trained' by their rogue training department, then further beaten into submission for 1- 2 years as Pic 2 flying with their unorthodox line captains (I'm being kind). Unorthodox means smoking in flight, Pnf pulling speedbrakes unannounced etc- the list is long and reads much like the precursers to most major accidents.
You'll be Beijing based for 1- 2 years before possibly having access to their ever diminishing European bases as routes are replaced by the 777.
Your contract will be unilaterally changed at some point.
You will deadhead alot, for the princely sum of $38/ hour. This doesn't count as duty time or towards your monthly required hours.
You will be rostered for a minimum 85 hours/ month and annual leave may or may not be given. Expect 950 hours pa, every year.
You will fail a 6 monthly medical check at some point whether you are healthy or not. Not only will your pay be cut but any bonus you may have accrued will vanish. You will probably have to make up any lost flying hours from your days off.
Finally, ask yourself why they have had to resort to this.

Where do I sign?

B737NG

3rd Feb 2012, 05:35

I just told the Agent yesterday on the phone that China is not a option what I heared from other Pilots. The woman then admitted that it is her last week for this company and then she changes into another field completely and leaves aviation related recruiting. Does that say something about the whole system?

USMCProbe

3rd Feb 2012, 11:07

The "junior Captain" thing would be a non-starter. If it doesn't work out for you at AC, you will end up being non current on the 320, and have zero real PIC time on the 330.

Favorite question of the non-current contract pilot - "would you like some fries with your burger, sir?

Right now many Chinese 320 jobs pay better than anything else here. Why subject yourself to more pain for less money? Some companies here require 300 plus hours of line training, for TYPED and CURRENT pilots. God knows what you would go through during a transition here.

If I were just coming to China now I would probably do Spring or Tianjin.

I.want.to.retire

3rd Feb 2012, 14:47

flying as PIC 1 on the Air China 330´s I can boil this offer down to

- you´re in desperate need of a job: give it a try (but prepare yourself for lots of frustration coming your way)

- you have a job: don´t even consider it

icemankk2001

27th Feb 2012, 11:14

any latest info or comment on air china contract? looked at parc aviation website air china might review the pay package. sounds like a good prospect to me.

however, still need some one in there to give me some insider info with this company.

thanks.

Karunch

27th Feb 2012, 22:55

The comments above all remain relevant, although another Captain has been lost to the 'high standards' of the medical system. Retaining their high standards involves putting pilots through invasive medical procedures with a significant mortality rate.

Latest info is they don't have enough Captains because of the above comments. If you think a pay rise is worth leaving your job for a six month contract- go for it.

fullforward

28th Feb 2012, 00:07

It's incredible what the worst enemy of pilots - the pilots themselves, are doing by eroding all the terms and conditions for this career, the bottom seems to not be reached yet.
As long as there are idiots accepting crappy and disrespectful conditions like that, it will be worse and worse. Vanity have no limits on our profession.

This wonderful informative tool have many years already but it looks like people simply don't care.

icemankk2001

28th Feb 2012, 04:35

anybody knows they still keep their promise for 7 days consecutive OFF? guys who fail their medical on what typicaly?

thanx.

Outtahere

29th Feb 2012, 03:48

Seven consecutive days is not in the current contract offering.

Medical failures for any reason your body may be at variance with a 20 year old Asian military pilot, plus a few other things you may never have known about your body. The list is long.

icemankk2001

29th Feb 2012, 04:34

hi outtahere,

r u saying when they renew a contract, no more 7 days consecutive off? so they are trying to lure guys in with the first contract and then change the 2nd term contract to worse?

i hope they dun lower the pay too! i have to think carefully then, haha.

can u pls pm me if u know any other dark side of this AC contract?

thanks in advance.

fullforward

1st Mar 2012, 22:39

"hi outtahere,

r u saying when they renew a contract, no more 7 days consecutive off? so they are trying to lure guys in with the first contract and then change the 2nd term contract to worse?

i hope they dun lower the pay too! i have to think carefully then, haha.

can u pls pm me if u know any other dark side of this AC contract?

thanks in advance. "

Can you right in plain English? What the hell is your spelling from, some chinese guetho?

icemankk2001

2nd Mar 2012, 04:02

WTF fullforward!

ur ICAO english level only 1? or is it something that u r smoking while reading this? put on ur glasses my friend.

cheers.

fatbus

2nd Mar 2012, 04:27

Have to agree with WK , english please!

Karunch

2nd Mar 2012, 05:29

In simple English- 15% of the foreign Captains not re- signing the 'improved' contract, prefering to join the unemployment queue (although not for long). Other Prc carriers are very keen to pick up a large, already licensed group.

That should tell you everything you need to know.

airdualbleedfault

2nd Mar 2012, 09:18

God I miss that 5hithole, sorry, I mean country :E

Flyjets

23rd Apr 2012, 15:04

6- Your licence n logbook belong to them , good luck converting your licence with no originals

Would you pls better expain this ? :ugh:

Arthole

24th Apr 2012, 11:45

Of course ,

Your licence is converted to a chinese licence , it belongs to air china , when you leave they cancel it , remember air china and the chinese caa are effectively the same thing .

If you are converting 320 to 330 your licence will have pic 2 on it , unlikely any authority will convert this to any recognised licence .

Good Luck

Flyjets

25th Apr 2012, 08:53

ok, but this the same in every airlines, even in the Gulf (ek,ey,qr).
The new type rating will be endorsed on your foreign license.
If you want it on your original license you have to pass a sim check with a Jaa/Faa examiner.
What I most concerned is the logbook. Do you need double logbook ?

rollingscissors

26th Apr 2012, 08:56

I've got some perspective for you, about going to China for that fat paycheck. Don't go unless you have patience, pacifist attitudes, and a strong stomach. Otherwise... disaster.

After you experience all of the other rudeness and annoyances - you also must be careful of...

Car spitting...
http://www.legalservices.0fees.net/wp-content/uploads/spit-001.jpg

Elevator Spitting...
http://www.legalservices.0fees.net/wp-content/uploads/spit-002.jpg

And sidewalk drop-and-plop from kiddies, kitties, doggies, and dudes...
http://www.legalservices.0fees.net/wp-content/uploads/exc-032.jpg

It is truly amazing how many newbies start threads asking about these jobs. As though all of the other discussions were worthless... Then they show up in headquarters asking for tips on handling life under a contract in China. The number one tip is, "don't do it unless you're desperate and / or insane!"

Later Dudes,
Rollie

POWDERFINGER

26th Apr 2012, 09:11

Outtahere

26th Apr 2012, 23:36

So Flyjets let me clarify this for you. You will use your P2 rating in your non Icao license to log cruise captain time. You may get to land the aircraft on fine days. In the meantime, your currency on your previous type will lapse forcing you to apply for first officer jobs should you wish to leave.

The airline owns your license.

And only 10% of applicants are passing as the 330 fleet manager doesn't want to do upgrades for foreigners- he has enough locals for this.

If anyone really thinks this is a good deal- I have something else I can sell you.

Direct Bondi

27th Apr 2012, 04:28

Anyone considering the "Opportunity of a Lifetime" to "Experience China", as pitched by the recruitment agencies premier snake-oil salesman, will find an insight to Chinese "methods" and the JUNIOR CAPTAIN sham, detailed in the following thread:

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/431195-air-china-cargo-schedule.html#post6006051