Europe vs Usa

[matcv88]

Hi guys,

At the moment in Europe seems like the only way in the market without p2f is Ryanair, how is the situation in the States?

Is it any easier being employed even with low hours?

PS i know that you have got to have a green card to be employed.

[ra4000]

In ISA is very nice and simple.
After your commercial,you get your
CFI-I and the MEI.
you will teach 1-3 years (you will get paid)
When you have around 700-1000hrs total
100-200 hrs multiengine you start apply
To the commuters (right now gojet airlines
Hire with 700hr in a crj 700),
After few years go to the majors or if you
Like there is always Asia or middleast.
No JAA ATP frozen BS,or other European
BS.

[Groundloop]

When you have around 700-1000hrs total
100-200 hrs multiengine you start apply
To the commuters (right now gojet airlines
Hire with 700hr in a crj 700),

Except that a new minumum of 1500 hours is being introduced in the States for any airline position.

[zondaracer]

I don´t know if I would say that it is necessarily nice and easy.

First of all, in the USA, most get an instructor rating, and then try to get a job as an instructor. Depending on the school where you work, it can take you up to three years to get enough hours to qualify for a regional airline or a part 135 operator. From 2008 until 2011, there was very little hiring in the US. Now, the regionals are hiring like crazy, requiring hours around 700 to 1200 hours total time, most requiring 50 to 100 hours of multi engine time. To get there, you have to spend a considerable amount of time flying in General Aviation (not necessarily a bad thing). Pay is very low, especially if you have a family to feed. Yes, being a flight instructor gets paid, but only when you fly or teach ground. And pay ranges from $12 to $25 per hour, and you may spend 12 hours at the flying school but only make 6 hours of actual pay. If you school doesn´t have many students, you will fly even less. One of my flight instructors said he was on the brink of bankruptcy and was only surviving because his wife had a decently paid job. It took him 4 years to get to 1200 hours, and he was a full time instructor.

These regionals are currently hiring



American Eagle (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/eagle/) – is hiring
Ameriflight (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/ameriflight/) – is hiring pilots.
Atlantic Southeast Airlines (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/asa/) – is hiring pilots for both ASA and ExpressJet.
Air Wisconsin (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/airwisconsin/) – Is hiring pilots.
Cape Air (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/capeair/) – is hiring pilots.
Colgan Airlines (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/colgan/) – is hiring pilots.
CommutAir (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/commutair/) – is hiring pilots.
Compass Airlines (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/compass/) – is hiring
Great Lakes (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/greatlakes/) – is hiring pilots.
Piedmont (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/piedmont/) – is hiring pilots.
ExpressJet Airlines (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/expressjet/) – is hiring pilots.
GoJet (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/gojet/) – is hiring hiring pilots.
Mesaba (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/mesaba/) – is hiring pilots thru Colgan Air.
Pinnacle Airlines (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/pinnacle/) – is hiring pilots.
PSA Airlines (http://pilotjobs.com/airline/psa/) – is hiring pilots.
SkyWest Airlines (http://pilotjobs.com/airlines/skywest/) – is hiring pilots.

The good... lots of regionals hiring, getting there is realistic in this lifetime. But soon, the hiring minimums will be 1500hrs TT with an ATP (by law), so the goalposts will move slightly. Also, you will not be asked to buy a type rating, or be bonded to a type rating (corporate flying might expect you to have a type rating, and Southwest Airlines requires a 737 type rating to get hired)

The bad... the pay at the regionals, especially at the beginning, is really bad. Many first year regional pilots with families receive food stamps (social assistance for food).
Michael Moore: Pilots on Food Stamps (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/pilots-on-food-stamps_b_319929.html)
Senators Question Airline Executives About Pilots' Living Conditions (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/06/AR2009080602580.html)
More bad...FAA duty days are 16 hours. Also, 50% of all commercial flights are regionals, so getting to a Major airline might be quite difficult.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/ (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/view/?autoplay)

[ra4000]

Dear Zonda
They ask between Europe and USA,not how much
You make.
In USA an average FI is in early 20's
And if you have already a family to feed you are screwed
Anyway.As an FI you fly about 80 hrs a month right now.Doesn't take very long to get an ATP.
Don't make much money for sure,still get paid
And build time,you listed several company that hire right now,not yesterday
Not tomorrow.can you do same for Europe?
I was a FI about 15 years ago (single) and myself
And other 5 FI,right now we are working for 1 jetblue,2 cathay,1 emirates,and my self in corporate.
And last,yes you start pay low,but there is not any business wher your salary
Increase for the rest of your career

[zondaracer]

RA4000,

my post was in response to your post saying that ¨In USA is very nice and simple¨ and I am pointing out that it is not that nice and simple.

80hours a month is very high for a flight instructor. Especially in today´s climate. Especially with over 96,000 active CFI certificates in the USA, and AOPA´s estimates of 0.75 students per instructor, getting lots of instructing hours fast is not what is currently happening for most. I´m sure there are some lucky guys and gals working at a busy school and racking up the hours, but this certainly isn´t the case for most.

In the US, new student pilots are decreasing in numbers as less and less are getting into flying. Those who do, 80% don´t even make it to private pilot for various reasons.

So, I´m glad that you and your friends made it to the big airlines, and I have plenty of friends who were able to get jobs at Great Lakes, American Eagle, Colgan, Express Jet, Colgan, Ameriflight, and more, but don´t confuse the climate for low time guys from 15 years ago and today. The realitiy, and what I was trying to point out, is that in the US, you can´t expect to finish flight training and hop into a 737 at Ryanair.

In summary, there are jobs in the US, but you have to work your way up from the bottom in GA, then the regionals or part 135, etc..., which is in contrast to the mentality in Europe.

[zlocko2002]

in Europe there is no such jobs like in USA, and it would take a lifetime to get 1500h in general aviation.

[Mickey Kaye]

"and it would take a lifetime to get 1500h in general aviation."

Rubbish

[matcv88]

right to work and live in USA refers just to a green card?Companies wouldnt sponsor you for a long term visa right?
I have my mum married to an american citizen and we are trying to see if i would have any chance to get one.

[ra4000]

Not really,green card is a 20 years visa,
That allow you to live in the USA.
And because you can live in the states you will get the working
Permit.
Still with the green card you will have some problem to get a job
In the corporate world, especially if have flight over the country
The good side of the green card is after
5 years you can apply for the citizenship.

[ra4000]

20 years green card is if you are adopted
I belive is our friend case.
The green card is a permanent residence
Not a working visa.
I was married to a Californian girl and I did
All the process.
What actually allow to work is your SSN card,that you need to
Obtain for work and based to your visa status
They will write on your card some restriction
Like "not valid for work" "valid until..." ect.
Ect.
If you have a green card will be just a regular
SSN card

[ra4000]

Hi SoCal
We should meet in a British pub
In marina del Rey and having a beer
And chat

[172_driver]

In the past three weeks I believe 6 or 7 instructor colleagues have announced they're leaving for airlines, GoJet, Eagle, Skywest. Some even turned down offers at other regionals. They're all around 1000 hrs TT and 100-200 hrs ME, but I think the one with lowest hours was offered an interview with just 500 TT. So times aren't that bad over here. However, they are all American citizens. Foreigners would need to look for a girl to marry or a job in Europe.