ANOTHER QANTAS RB211 ENGINE FAILURE

[Oriana]

From The Aviation Herald.

Incident: Qantas B744 near Bangkok on Oct 16th 2011, engine shut down in flight

By Simon Hradecky, created Sunday, Oct 16th 2011 22:07Z, last updated Sunday, Oct 16th 2011 22:18Z

A Qantas Boeing 747-400, registration VH-OJS performing flight QF-2 from Bangkok (Thailand) to Sydney,NS (Australia) with 356 passengers, was climbing out of Bangkok about 10 minutes into the flight when a loud bang was emitted by an engine (RB211) followed by vibrations. The crew shut the engine down and returned to Bangkok for a safe landing about 75 minutes later.

Passengers reported the engine emitted sparks as well.

The airline confirmed the crew shut an engine down following a bang and excessive shuddering about 10 minutes into the flight.

The flight is now expected to depart Bangkok with a delay of 24 hours.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

5th pod being prepared now.

Remember why these donks are failing. The same stage blade keeps cracking and there is a known mod to fix the problem. Qantas can't carry out the mod because they closed down their own RR workshop. The overseas workshops are full.

It's a circus.

[mcgrath50]

And the explanation from the spokesman? "There was a bang"

Oh please. Don't want to get too technical with the great unwashed now do we!

[1a sound asleep]

"But there is no safety risk to our passengers. At Qantas safety is our number one priority. There was no danger and it wasn't an emergency. In the interests of safety we decided to return to the airport rather than continue on the 3 remaining engines. This is a just a precaution and our pilots are trained to deal with these safety issues in the simulator". Its totally normal at Qantas. :ugh::D

[ohallen]

1a you missed the most important parts...our highly skilled and valued pilots, who the company has supported through the most meticulous training programs over many years and who now have NO future with our company, but they should know we value them when it suits our cynical PR purposes to prop up our well earned bonus systems (ours not theirs).

There you go, that should save Rat Spin Doctors some time and effort.

[sierra5913]

Will it be conveniently blamed on the strikes? :{

[framer]

Fed Sec, if The same stage blade keeps cracking and there is a known mod to fix the problem. Qantas can't carry out the mod because they closed down their own RR workshop. The overseas workshops are full.

is true, can you not prepare a press release ststing the facts?

[SweetnLow]

Fed Sec
I concur with Framer - Qantas is doing all the spin, can you not reply in kind with media adds stating these types of facts? The general public only see the Qantas spin. If there is a known fix to these engine issues (and other issues surrounding maintenance at QF) but can't be actioned because AJ and the brainless money men killed the maintenace plant, surely travelling the public would find that situation unacceptable.
Sweet.

[MACH082]

That's not the only thing they have lost recently

Something stinks

Qantas loses boy. Sorry, here's a travel voucher | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qantas-loses-boy-sorry-heres-a-travel-voucher/story-e6frfq80-1226168115764)

QANTAS has fessed up to losing track of an unaccompanied 11-year-old boy and even misplacing the paperwork involving his flight to Hobart.
When the boy arrived at Hobart Airport on his own late at night on September 28 he was forced to wander around on his own looking for his mother, The Age reports.

Qantas says the incident happened during a particularly busy night when the arrivals hall of Hobart Airport was in turmoil because storms in Melbourne had caused flight delays, passenger disruption and lost baggage.

The boy, who had been dropped off at Melbourne Airport by his uncle and passed into the care of Qantas cabin crew, told his mother, Leanne Decleva, that he didn't know why he was on his own after landing in Hobart.

"Anyone could have come along and just creamed him up in a couple of seconds," said Ms Decleva, a child protection worker.

She marched him back to the Qantas counter to find out what had happened and was told they had no paperwork to sign for his collection and did not know who was authorised to pick him up.

"I've shown my licence as ID and they just (said) take him," Ms Decleva said.

"But there could have been a custody battle in train and I may have been prevented from having any contact with him.

"Working in child protection, I know all this stuff, because it happens all the time."

She has declined the airline's offer of a $1000 travel voucher and is considering her legal options.
It comes as Qantas continues negotiations with a union over a pay dispute which has affected up to 60,000 passengers so far - with more disruptions to come.


Read more: Qantas loses boy. Sorry, here's a travel voucher | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qantas-loses-boy-sorry-heres-a-travel-voucher/story-e6frfq80-1226168115764#ixzz1azo8mKtj)

[denabol]

This lays it on the line, as he often does.

Qantas emergency at Bangkok involves outsourced engine work | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/10/17/the-failure-engine-strikes-again-at-qantas/)

[Mr Leslie Chow]

SP I agree with the other two posts.

If this is the case I am sure you are getting the media release ready if not out already. I bet that they come out saying that the engine was maintained in Australia blah blah blah.

Also sky news reporting that AIPA claims QF walks out of FWA negotiations if not reported already.

[unionist1974]

The dumb decision to close EOC , is really hurting . The best engine shop in any airline closed ,why? And all the Unions stood by and watched it happen , why Mmmmmmmmmmm.

[SweetnLow]

Another good article by Ben Sandilands - but again the mainsteam public don't read Crikey! Or would know who Ben is. There must be a way to break into the mainstream media with this information or the full page 'We're Sorry' ads by QF will keep winning the public over......have you ever read such tripe? A well scripted rebuttal could do wonders....

[limelight]

There may be another way that to my knowledge has not been tried.

Qantas has been given rights by the Government for international carriage.

Why not everyone write (you must send a letter, they have to reply) to your local MP, which explains the situation, and how detrimental this is to Australia's interests.

We just need a damm good letter where we can fill in our bits.

[framer]

From the Crikey article;
The RB211 engine issue highlights the need for Qantas to consider more than theoretical savings in decisions that affect operational safety and reliability.

This is 100% true but...... if you are paying your managers huge bonuses to cut costs in their own areas of the company you will never achieve it. The head of engineering who signed off on the closure or reported that it wouldn't affect safety to the board, won't give a stuff becuase he/she has already bought a new Mercedes with that years bonus.
They probably don't even understand that the error chain to a hull loss often starts years prior to the accident with a management, decision.

[JALurker]

Limelight,

That is a damn fine idea.

If anyone drafts such a letter, please PM me, I will happily sign it a send it off to every parliamentarian I can think of.

I am not involved in the aviation industry, but as someone who flys from time to time, I have a strong interest in the pilot's (and other staff) health and well being. I feel sorry for everyone who is currently employed with Qantas, the ongoing stress must be taking its toll.

What an abject failure of management. It would be interesting to get hold of internal satisfaction surveys over a number of years to see if the downward trend correlates with the current management tenure.

[SweetnLow]

Framer, completely agree. Unless told, the average joe won't link the events that eventually lead to a smoking hole in the ground, which is the by-product of poor planning in every sense of the word. Mean while, as you say the boss has finished his tenure, received a hefty bonus for a job well done and can sleep comfortably - until he hears news of the smoking hole and then with any luck might feel a small amount of remorse.

It needs to be out there in the mainstream media as a concise, unemotional message that is truthful and insightful...

[denabol]

I think we need to reconsider mainstream media. I get my news and commentary on an iPad2 and a larger screen PC. Business Spectator, Crikey, the Sydney Morning Herald, The Oz, the ABC, and some foreign finance media and blogs, especially on Aviation Week and Flightglobal, are much easier to handle that way, and my kids have shown me RSS to get good financial stuff pushed out to me. I think what was mainstream in shopping, flying, banking, and getting news, is all in decline.

Don't like everything that has changed either, but I know it has changed and that nothing is going back to the way it was.

[another superlame]

So once again another RB211 self destructs due to decisions by management to outsource to the lowest common denominator, costing more money, destroying any goodwill Qantas had with the passengers on that flight.

Has the company spokesmodel Livvy had any thing to say in regards to this episode?

I think this engine popped 2 weeks too early. Surely it was meant to blow on the anniversary of OQA.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

We have some better stuff in the press today.

[moremj2]

I still remember (looong time ago) spending an entire shift hand cropping one stage of blades for an RB211 compressor....but when they were finished balanced and installed, (along with every other blade set) the engine gave max power all day at the noise box (test cell)....and spent years on wing...

I wonder if the people doing this job in Timbuktu today for Q spend the time and effort to hand craft engines that held world records for on wing reliability...

At least now thats its all changed....even my hair is going grey...i can tell my kids that i worked for Q when its tradesmen (and women) created and maintained the stuff of legends...for all the RIGHT reasons....

And all the Rollers ever needed (in my day) was MORE MJ2....

[J52]

I know the feeling well Moremj2. Spent my early years hand crafting J52's and doing failure/reliability analysis. RNZAF reliability was upper percentile and manhours spent were recovered from extended TBO compared to USN and other operators. But this is the way of the world. All the airline execs see is the cost and not the total picture of the reliability outcome (not to mention training, employment, knowledge transfer, pride in a good job etc). Some day in the future when QF reliability falls below acceptable limits some bright exec will clamour to open an engine line with the desire of putting the companies fate back under their own control. Government will kick in a few readies for training and employment and the exec will be handsomely bonused for being a visionary. And then we will need to import the skills through immigration because those skilled will be working somewhere on a mine site or retired.

[Ngineer]

That is exactly what "world's best practice" means to an engineer moremj2. We deal with machines, people lives and safety. They deal with beans.....

[SLFAussie]

Not that I'm counting. But I'm wishing that I hadn't booked Qantas six months ago for a London-Melbourne flight next week.



Date Flght Dep Arr Reg Type Fault

16/10/2011 QF002 BKK SYD VH-OJS 747-400 Engine failure

28/07/2011 QF030 HKG MEL ? 747-400 Alieron fault

16/07/2011 QF064 JNB SYD VH-OJL 747-400 Engine failure

03/06/2011 QF052 SIN BNE VH-OJI 747-400 Could not retract landing gear

20/05/2011 QF001 BKK LHR VH-OJL 747-400 Engine failure

09/05/2011 QF005 SYD SIN VH-OJH 747-400 Engine failure

23/03/2011 QF020 MNL SYD VH-EBL A330-200 Fire In cockpit

18/01/2011 QF107 SYD LAX VH-OJA 747-400 Engine fuel valve failure

06/01/2011 QF430 MEL SYD VH-OGP 767-300 Flaps failure

15/11/2010 QF017 SYD EZE VH-OEI 747-400 Smoke in cockpit

05/11/2010 QF006 SIN SYD VH-OJD 747-400 Engine failure

04/11/2010 QF032 SIN SYD VH-OQA A380-800 Uncontained engine failure

31/08/2010 QF074 SFO SYD VH-OJP 747-400 Uncontained engine failure

10/11/2009 QF673 BNE MEL VH-TJY 737-400 Engine failure

07/10/2008 QF072 SNG PER VH-QPA A330-300 ADIRU failure

24/01/2008 QF030 HKG MEL VH-OJK 747-400 Hull breach, depressurisation

25/09/1999 QF001 SYD BKK VH-OJH 747-400 Runway overrun in heavy
rain

[MACH082]

Notice how all those incidents appear from Dixon era decisions compounded by Joyce?

I'd love to see some graphs on incident increase correlating to share price, correlating to outsourcing, under Dixon and Joyce.

Those alarm bells are starting to ring.

[breakfastburrito]

Please do not think I agree with this logic, I'm just the messenger.
Look at it from an exec's point of view. The hand crafting of engines takes time & money today, to save money in the future. This represents a fundamental time mismatch in profitability for the next reporting period (less profit next period, greater profit in subsequent periods).

Executives would rather have "one in the hand than two in the bush". They may not be around to take the credit for the "extra" profit in the future, hence they scoop up the lower bonus now than risk missing out in the future. If you do not believe the fundamental aim of certain groups of senior managers is to loot whatever they can before moving to the next host, please disregard.

[MACH082]

P.S I love the Cathay banners going into eastern state airports.

"Our people are our airline"

I think that's aimed squarely at the little man :D

[amos2]

You know, I'm so super impressed with you blokes and the great concern you have for the safety of the travelling public.

But, I do remember a few years ago when the pilots of Ansett and Australian Airlines were having a similar stoush with their respective employers and the members of your union and the F/Es, were more than happy to work with, and for, the overseas pilots with dubious qualifications who were brought in to take up the slack.

Where was your "great safety" stand then?

Don't know the answer?...well I'll tell you...

no where to be seen!

[bandit2]

My hat goes off to all ex emplyees of EOC. I was around the Tech services area not long ago & saw the plaques & awards etc that Qantas recieved for engine reliability & hours on the wing. I thought it was a disgrace that we would never recieve any award like that again. We had 90 years of expertise & knowledge, handed down from tradesman to apprentice, thrown out the door. Unfortunetly, even if we wanted to bring EOC back to it's former glory, it would take decades. Why? Due to the greedy leeches that have been in power for the last 10 years or more.
Watching the news tonight I find it very disappointing to see Alan Milne saying that a exploding engine is not a safety issue!

[nitpicker330]

Mach082........nope, sorry to disappoint you but it's a worldwide ad campaign and the folks in hello kitty city wouldn't care about any QF staff issue.

[Anulus Filler]

Watching the news tonight I find it very disappointing to see Alan Milne saying that a exploding engine is not a safety issue!

Ahhhh Alan Milne,,,,Yes how times have changed indeed.

[griffin one]

Would that be the same Alan Milne who the ALAEA fought for over a tax issue when he was posted in LAX?
tigers and stripes
leopards and spots

[Metro man]

The phrase "Duty of care." comes to mind. The lawyers are going to have a field day in the event of an accident as QF continue to operate aircraft with a known defect.

Luckily the B744 isn't a twin, ETOPS approval would have pulled a long time ago with that inflight shutdown rate.

Are their pilots being given additional sim sessions to keep their engine failure drills right up to scratch as they are very likely to need them ?

[Kelly Slater]

This evening's news reported that this was the third engine failure for Qantas this year. Is this the correct number?

[amos2]

Ah! Annulus Filler... AKA... The Chocolate Soldier...are you the bloke who wants to become my very best friend?

[bandit2]

Kelly Slater, have a look at the list above. It`s the 4th, if the list is correct. No offence intended SLFAussie. Don`t forget things always come in three`s.

[SLFAussie]

No offence taken, bandit. The information is mostly sourced from the Aviation Herald website. One from The Age online and the 1999 runway overrun from Wikipedia. The list includes flights involved in an emergency landing, turnback, or significant aircraft damage. These are the ones that I know about. There may be others.

[flyforfun]

Are their pilots being given additional sim sessions to keep their engine failure drills right up to scratch as they are very likely to need them ?

Metro man,

Why would they need additional sim sessions? With the way this is going, they will be well rehearsed with the real thing!!!

[ohallen]

I can see the need for a full page ad now with a photo of the head of Engineering saying in flight engine failure and flames don't constitute a safety risk.

I think we have the Rat problem in one.

Is this the QANTAS we want or deserve.

Julia or Martin would you like to comment now please?

Mr Joyce do you endorse this position??

[Collando]

What would the cost to qantas international be for all the engine failures in the last year and cost of repair? Might be a fair portion towards the "200 million" company stated loss I suspect.
Why is the required mod not being incorporated ?
Are other operators of the RB211 having the same failure rates?
Didn't CASA say that continued failure would be cause for action?
Sigh !!.........So many unanswered questions.

[tail wheel]

Mach082........nope, sorry to disappoint you but it's a worldwide ad campaign and the folks in hello kitty city wouldn't care about any QF staff issue.

I find it hard to believe that the current Cathay advert on Sky News featuring Nigel the Cathay Captain and Sim Instructor is not specifically intended to highlight the difference in HR and crew training policies between Cathay and Qantas. (Interestingly, the Cessna 150 registration "VH-RUA" does not appear to exist on the CASA database?)

[DirectAnywhere]

The idea of highlighting one's 'people' seems to be a trend among airlines at the moment. BA, Cathay, Virgin and Delta all have ads at the moment focussing on their 'people' which surely aren't all aimed at Qantas, although Virgin and Cathay appear to be capitalising on the current unrest.

It doesn't mean any airline's management actually believes it, it just means they're all trying to sell the same line of BS... with one obvious exception, which in a way is at least a little more honest in one respect!

[Sunfish]

Ah yes! The maintenance engineers lament - we have all sung it:

A salesman brings in a million dollar client and he is rewarded by champagne and bonuses. An Engineer saves the airline a million dollars and....nothing except maybe another kick in the arse.

It actually takes time and quite a bit of statistical research and computation to place a financial value on maintenance engineering that allows you to determine what you should be spending each year to maximise value because you have to do the risk management numbers (annual cost to avoid catastrophic failure), the cost of maintenance related delays (commercial risk management) and finally arrive at a life cycle cost of the aircraft. Doing all that and more kept me gainfully employed at Ansett for a few years.

Tax comes into it as well. U.S. airlines used to benefit from accelerated depreciation which led them to turn over their aircraft fleet and buy new ones every Ten years or so. The Boeing maintenance and overhaul schedules are based on this "buy it and fly it" model, and they are the minimum you need to achieve this in a North American environment. Now fast track to Australia where aircraft used to be depreciated over Twenty years (?) and hence fleets are going to have an older average age.

Now when you know you are going to keep something longer than the North American cousins, then if you are smart you think ahead when you buy the aircraft rather like when you buy a new car. For example, Boeing used to offer an optional "Coroguard' proprietary top wing skin coating that reduced corrosion damage significantly, it was expensive and added weight, but it paid off Ten years down the track. Then of course there are the thousands of other options they offer for each aircraft type, not to mention the whole provisioning jungle of which spares to buy and how many.

What is killing Qantas is the same thing that killed Ansett - short term bonus driven management decision making in a business that requires long term thinking and planning. At Ansett the managers cut out its brain by getting rid of all the little old guys in grey cardigans who dealt with such things as maintenance planning, unscheduled repairs and airworthiness directives. The airline stumbled along for a few years while the backlog of things not attended to slowly grew.

Then one day there was the discovery of an Airworthiness directive not completed and the B767 fleet had to be grounded. I challenged Twoomey on ABC talk radio that this was symptomatic of deeper problems. He denied it. Then the ATSB looked further and discovered that Ansett could not prove that ANY of its aircraft were being maintained properly anymore and CASA took away its AOC.

To put that in terms a journalist might understand; Imagine that you could not drive your car unless you could prove that it had been serviced exactly in accordance with the manufacturers instructions, by an authorised service center, by certified employees and at exactly the required service intervals.

Now imagine that you had lost or mislaid all the documentation that proved it. What can you tell the Police officer?

To put that another way; you know what a luxury sports car like a Ferrari is worth without its service manuals? - a lot less. That is why Ansetts B767s were broken up for scrap at Melbourne airport. They couldn't be sold as a flyable aircraft, even to some Third rate African country, because they didn't have the documentation to prove they were safe.

This is where Qantas is heading. The Qantas engine shop shutdown is symptomatic of this type of thinking "we know the cost of everything and the value of nothing". There are endless examples on Pprune of misplaced priorities and stupid decisions clouded by short term bonus driven management culture.

Keep cutting boys! One of these days you are going to have a structural failure, hopefully not in flight, and the ATSB will determine that the required inspection and repair that should have prevented it was signed off by some little Asian guy at midnight somewhere in deepest China Six years ago.... Then the ATSB finds that this little guy has signed off on a lot of other work on many other aircraft in your fleet for the last Six years...and when that is randomly checked by the ATSB, they find none of it has been done, or if it has been done, it's been done incorrectly. At that point it's too late for Qantas. Lets just hope it all happens on the ground.

Of course the managers who lit the fuse on the airlines demise through thoughtless short term planning have taken their annual bonuses and are long gone.

[Deadduck]

Executive Management have GOT TO BE DOING ALL THIS STUFF ON PURPOSE .
IT'S as if they don't want QF to be around for much longer .... JETSTAR can take all the flying .
I'm surprised the BOARD have not said anything or fired the retards. :D:ok:

[mmciau]

Sunfish,

Well presented comments. CASA and ATSB just seem inactive at what is transpiring at the moment.

Mike

[QuadRant1]

After reading Sunfishs' post, can the rot be cut out? Can things be turned around?

I bet it would take large amounts of capital investment to regain our engineering supremacy/efficiency.

God help the long term loyal Qantas employee and damn those short term parasitical vermin who currently preside over us.

The fight is goood! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[frangatang]

You would do well to see if BA is having its RB211s falling to bits. I dont think so is the answer. Mind you l am not sure where they get overhauled, its either in taffyland (cardiff) or by rolls themselves.

[Tankengine]

Both BA and CX have had problems with these engines.
The ratio of unmodified/modded engines in their fleets and the high average thrust on take-off of Qantas aircraft [due to longer average sector length] the likely-hood of a QF failure.

Fact is : they need to be modified, Qantas can't do it anymore and the engine shops in Asia who do it for QF now are busy!:*

[hewlett]

ie. QF no longer have "control" of their maintenance ?

[speeeedy]

But you all must be mistaken, a failure is not a safety issue, and the failure rate of Qantas' RB211's is entirely normal.

ALAN MILNE: The Qantas 2 on climb out of Bangkok last night, the pilot's experienced some engine vibration and a higher than normal temperature. They shut the engine down, safetied it, returned to Bangkok for a normal landing.

No safety issue.


ALAN MILNE: Any of the maintenance providers that Qantas uses are world standard, world class. All of the providers have been endorsed by the manufacturer so we ensure that we always use highest quality standard.

The failure rate for these engines has been the same and as I said we're using world class facilities here.

Direct quotes as reported to ABC PM in this link (http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3341655.htm?site=westqld)

Fed Sec surely you have the figures to prove another BIG FAT LIE I presume, go get him!

[ohallen]

Imagine what the impact on the share price would be if they really had a safety issue. These comments must be getting very close to the wind in terms of public disclosures by this company.

This is undoubtedly price sensitive material that the market has a right to know to be properly informed.

There is never a corporate regulator around when you need them.

[Oliver Klozof]

Qantas have been operating the 747-400 with RB211 engines since 1989. In that time the aircraft has been flying essentially the same routes using more or less the same operating techniques.

It seems more than a coincidence that failure/IFSD events have been on the increase since the Qantas engine facility was shut down and the work sent overseas.

[Slippery_Pete]

What is killing Qantas is the same thing that killed Ansett - short term bonus driven management decision making in a business that requires long term thinking and planning.
:ok: Comment of the year goes to Sunfish. Hit the nail fairly and squarely on the proverbial.

[sani-com]

I'm surprised the BOARD have not said anything or fired the retards.

Either the board don't have a clue themselves, or they're in on it. :hmm:

[QF94]

Executive Management have GOT TO BE DOING ALL THIS STUFF ON PURPOSE .
IT'S as if they don't want QF to be around for much longer .... JETSTAR can take all the flying .
I'm surprised the BOARD have not said anything or fired the retards. :Dhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif ]

I posted this in another thread, but what the heck! The more this is spread around the better. It goes to show how far back the slow demise of QANTAS started and with who.

"I don't know how common this knowledge is, but former QF CEO Dixon and CFO Peter Gregg both served as Chairman and directors of Orange Star Investment Holdings, based in Singapore that owned Jetstar Asia and Valuair. Alan Joyce was also a director of Orange Star Investment Holdings, which is now Newstar Investment Holdings.

Here are some articles showing the "relationship" between these people and what is now becoming QF's International Airline based in Asia.

Infratil - Airport Industry News: Jetstar Asia, Valuair bring no cheer to Qantas (http://www.infratil.com/content/view/2379/67/) (5 September 2008)

Asia Times Online :: Southeast Asia news and business from Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/GG27Ae03.html) (Asia Times July 2005)

Jetstar Asia still flying at a loss | CAPA (http://www.centreforaviation.com/analysis/jetstar-asia-still-flying-at-a-loss-11679) (September 2009)

Jetstar to take on Tiger with revamp (http://www.theage.com.au/business/jetstar-to-take-on-tiger-with-revamp-20090402-9l7w.html) (The Age April 2009)

Bruce Buchannan, CEO of Jetstar Group is a director of Newstar Investment Holdings as is David Hall, former IT Chief in QF and now CEO of Jetstar Australia/NZ.

This is more than QF engineers or pilots being the best in the world. This is more than Geoff Thomas' reporting skills.

This is more about the systematic dismantling and shrinking of QANTAS and the labour force within Australia and shifting it offshore, so as to maintain the bonuses and outrageous payments to these individuals while they grow "their" airline at the expense of Australia's airline and jobs.

Alan milne's slip the other day on Lateline is the first of many. Hopefully the slip will become a slide down a steep gradient and make the management of QF accountable for their actions and hoepfully save what's left of QANTAS."

[neville_nobody]

It all begs the question what would Qantas actually have to do for CASA to take action? How many engines failures do you have to have before something is done?

[QFinsider]

AIPA ought take a stand. Whilst RW was correct in stating pilots are well trained to handle these events. This is clearly a safety issue. The fact remains that as other posters stated, these engines need the modifications NOW.
That the overseas contractors cannot do them as quickly as required should indicate that these engines are not suitable for long isolated over water flights.These are the flights at risk. This is where there is maximum stress on the engines as the operate close to their certified limit, hence higher risk of failure.
Flying to London presents the pilot with plenty of land based alternatives. South Africa, Argentina and Los Angeles do not.

As a safety imperative AIPA should decree in the interest of customer care, these engines are not suitable for long over water sectors, until they are modified.