Singapore Living

[cameltoad]

Hey all,
I am considering taking a position with Jetstar Asia. Any info about living in Singapore would be very helpful. Namely where do most of the Expat pilots live, is it near the water, is there an expat community so the wife/kids can run into others of the same, and what is the school situation, my sons are 11 and 13
Thanks:ok:

[thrustpig]

Lots of good stuff on this topic. Quick summary for you:-

Changi Airport on east coast. Many airport workers live east coast.
Many expats live in condos', shared pool, gym, sports facilities, etc.
Education. Government Schools funding in part is based on student performance. Better grades, more funding. Many local gov schools reluctant to take on "new to sing" students of 12+ years old as they can have an adverse effect on their statistics. So, budget 15 to 20K+++ per year per student for "international schooling", 2+1 or 3 bedroom condo east coast approx 4K+++per month. Transport, Car 50-100K toyota corolla etc. Power, H20, internet, TV .5 to 1K+++ pm. Tax pay at end of year, 12-15% (+) 7% GST on just about everything. 4 person expat family monthly basic expendature best part of 10K.+++

[Stallone]

well your kids don't really need international schooling

as long as their english is good and they can keep up with the pace, govt aided schools are not a problem

[Orangputi]

Stallone, surely you are joking about government schools. if you are an expat and have kids at local schools (which i doubt being 26!) you would think very different about this issue.

[paulsalem]

Hey all,
I am considering taking a position with Jetstar Asia. Any info about living in Singapore would be very helpful. Namely where do most of the Expat pilots live, is it near the water, is there an expat community so the wife/kids can run into others of the same, and what is the school situation, my sons are 11 and 13
Thankshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Congrats on the job. What nationality are you? My wife has a blog (http://andthenimovedtosingapore.********.com/), the early entries detail what it was like

Yup there are lots of Expat groups. My wife and I are American's and she is in a few clubs that are very cheap to join (S$100 / year).

Pickup a copy of Expat Living (http://www.expatliving.sg/) full of good info on things to do for Expats. Here (http://www.expatliving.sg/) is a thread with some good info as well.

Let me know if I can help more.

[overmars]

Orangputi (by the way, it should be OrangPutih)
What is wrong with the national schools? Foreigners are more than welcome to join the local schools.

Thread starter, the issue on cost of living in Singapore, and where to live in Singapore, have been discussed to death on this forum.

[Stallone]

Stallone, surely you are joking about government schools. if you are an expat and have kids at local schools (which i doubt being 26!) you would think very different about this issue.

having gone through the whole education system in govt schools, there are countless non-local students in my schools/classes

they're mostly asians rather than caucasians though.

their parents are expats, not immigrants

[etops777]

Public transport is very good in Singapore. Why must people need to have a car in SIN? Considering the amount of COE these days, the cost of COE can actually have you in a cab on a daily basis!

Every education systems are taught differently. What may be good for USA, Japan, EU or Australia may not be good for SIN. There are many other options available in terms of accommodations. A nice 3 bedrooms condo can go from 3000 to 10000 per month. One have lots of choices..from a condo, EC, or a EM/EA type of HDB. So the choices are yours..not all the condos are in the good locations and not all the HDBs are of in the lower standards than a condo. Do some research, talk to people that are actually flying there at the moment..

Good luck

[paulsalem]

I have a 3 bedroom condo on the east coast for S$3,400 / month.

Buying a car here makes no sense. A 2009 certifed pre-owned Honda City is $88,900. That gives you 7 years of COE remaining. (Basically the Sing Gov't will allow you to operate the vehicle here for 7 more years)

88,900 / 7 years = 12,700 / 365 = $34

So you can spend $34 / day on transit. Even if you only took taxis that would be hard to do, depends where you are going though. But that doesn't include, gas, insurance, parking, maintenance, etc.

Even if I was wealthy I wouldn't buy a car here. It just doesn't make financial sense unless waiting 5-10 minutes for a cab is unacceptable.

[cameltoad]

christ, I didn't realize it was that pricey. According to their T&C's you make about 14k a month is there any hope of saving any of it after rent and putting 2 kids in school?

[CDRW]

Cameltoad - in short the answer to your question is NO. Now that is assuming that you are not going to be sending kids to local schools, living in a HDB in Pungol, and imbibing on hawker center food. No car and no club membership.

My thoughts on local schools - they are good but don't send a child to them if they have started in western style schools. The different style of teaching will be too much for them. Start off in a local school and it should be OK.

[burnable gomi]

cameltoad,

Not likely that you will be able to save much. The 2 main problems will be housing and schooling.

Housing: If you live in an HDB (government built housing. 80+% of Singaporeans live in HDB flats. Don't worry it's not like government housing back home) you can probably get a 3 bedroom for somewhere in the vicinity of $3000/month if you're not in a prime area. Unfortunately you can only rent HDBs. They are constructed to make housing more affordable to the locals so you have to be a local to be able to buy one (and your household income has to be lower than $10,000/month). Same goes for "landed" property, you have to be a local. The only property you are allowed to buy as a foreigner are private condos. As such the prices of private condos have increased drastically over the past few years. If you are planning on staying for any length of time I would definitely suggest trying to buy. I have seen friends priced out of their rental properties several times as rents rise rapidly. If you wanted to rent "landed" property the prices would vary considerably depending on where you went. If you go a little bit farther east (just west of the airport) you can probably get a house (semi-detached, or terraced (townhouse)) for $4-7000+/month in the Pasir Ris or Tampines area. There is a nice waterfront park in Pasir Ris so it is a decent place to live.

Schooling: It would be very difficult to send your kids to local schools at their age. Even if they are very bright they would struggle with the change of atmosphere. If they are average students to begin with they will really struggle with the workload. The local school day usually runs from about 7am to 1-1:30pm after which most kids come home and get some sort of private tutoring for a couple more hours.

International schools are pricey. I have a friend with 3 kids in international schools. He is spending over $80,000/year for their education. So even if you plan $50,000 for 2 kids, that is still almost 1/3 of your annual gross income.

Monthly Budget:

Salary: $14,000

Expenses:
Taxes: ~$1,400
Rent: ~$5,000
School: ~$4,000
Car: ~$1,000+ (purchase price, COE, gas, insurance, etc)

So that leaves you with $2,600 for food, bills, entertainment, holidays, etc...etc.

So basically if you send your kids to international school you can just scrape by. If you send them to local schools you can probably save a little bit.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Rent a condo on the main bus route to/from the airport and/or simulator. East Coast is a decent area for that. I have started using the bus for work. It takes about 15 minutes longer each way but saves me about $400 pcm.

[paulsalem]

Here is my take:

Monthly Budget:

Salary: $14,000

Expenses:
Taxes: ~$1,400 (more if you're a US citizen)
Rent: ~$3,500 (3 bedroom condo)
School: ~$4,000
TV/Internet/Home Phone - $56
Cell Phone(avoid Starhub service sucks) ~ 60 / person
Water / Electric -$400?? (mine is 275, for 2 people only)
Double your current grocery bill

Get yourself an Obi110 (http://obihai.com/what-is.html) and you'll be able to call the US & Can from a standard home phone when connected to your Google Voice number.

[Patty747400]

All that's been said about the cost if international schools are true. Extremely pricey. Add to that all the after school activities, if they want to play soccer, learn karate or play drums you'll have to pay a couple of hundreds per month for that.

You will also need a health insurance and for your family you probably can't get a good one for less than 6-7000 a year. More if you need it to be valid in the US.

If your basic expenses are 10 the other four will disappear quickly...

14 pm for someone who is born in Singapore, have bought their HDB long time ago and have children grown up in local schools is a very comfortable salary. But, for an expat in your age trying to start a life in Singapore it's not much.

However, don't be scared about buying a car if your wife has a driving license. You can get a 5 year old car for 40-50000 SGD, when you sell it or scrap it after five year you'll get about 20000 so your cost (depreciation) of the car will be 6-700 per month. Running costs like fuel, parking, service etc are relatively cheap so expect total cost of about 1000 per month. Your family will use at least 400 per month on taxis so the extra 600 is well invested in quality of life.

[Stallone]

Singapore No.1 Car Site for New Car & Used Cars - sgCarMart (http://www.sgcarmart.com)

scrapping a car and getting back 20k means OMV of about $40k

a car with OMV of 40k will not cost 40k-50k when it's 5years old.

1k/month expenditure on a car is severe underestimation.

A normal japanese sedan monthly loan repayment is about 700-800, and their OMV is barely 20k. Factor in Parking, Petrol($2/L), ERP, Inurance, Road Tax, Maintenance, 1k is well, never enough

[thrustpig]

camel t, Im not trying to talk you out of a job, however, before you move lock, stock and barrel, some other work / life satisfaction questions you might like to ask your prospective employer:-
How many weeks free hotel accommodation are provided for on arrival?
How many employees have left in the last 3 / 5 years?,
How many salary modifications (+/-) have there been in the last 3 / 5 years?,
What is your companies policy for layoffs / salary reductions / unpaid leave etc in SARS / GFC / 911 type situations??
Is there any difference to the local to expat experience (hours, qualifications) ratio per upgrade? What is the current time to upgrade? How many upgrades has your company completed in the last 1 / 2 / 3 years?
Is there an upgrade bond? How much and how long is it??
What is your companies plan for market growth against VLLC, (very low cost carriers)?

[Patty747400]

Stallone

Who says you won't get anything for the body value if you scrap it?

I have had 3 different used cars. Sold them at different stages of their life span and none of them have depreciated more than 650 per month.

2 SGD petrol? I pay around 1.70 with discount.
Insurance is about 100 pm.
Road tax 100 pm.
Petrol 200 pm.
Maintenance 100 pm (average over a year).
My ERP and parking average 50 pm but you're correct. I underestimated it (although I hardly think it was "severe"). It might be around 11-1200 instead but it's still worth every dollar. Quality of life.

[Stallone]

I did not say you will not get anything back at scrap value

U said u're getting 20k back during scrap, and that means OMV of around 40k.

i said it's impossible to get 40k OMV car costing 40-50k even when it's 5years old.

40k OMV = BMW 318i

find me a 5year old 318i that costs $40k-$50k, i'd love to get it

[Patty747400]

Sorry, I can't find you that car. However, as I said I have had three cars where the depreciation has not been above 650 pm. Scrap or sell or do wtf. You can use a car for a couple of years for that money.
If you step out of the BMW mode, that is...

Good luck Cameltoad and if you want more info about the benefits and costs of owning a car in Singapore PM me.

[Orangputi]

Stalllone,

I am not rubishing local schools, but I am sorry in most cases it doesnt work for the expats. I guess you may differ being all of 26 years of age with kids going through school! I for one had kids going through school here in singapore and if you want a quick divorce stick them in a local school.

[Metro man]

Basically with a new car when you buy it, it comes with a 'Certificate of Entitlement' which allows you to drive it for ten years. At the end of that period you can either scrap it for a sum of money which will allow you to take a taxi home, export it or buy another CoE at the current market price.

If you choose the last option you can either buy another 10 year CoE which may be extended, or a 5 year one which can't.

Forget an off peak car (OPC) you can't drive it when you need to.

If you export or scrap a car you get a rebate on the remainder of the CoE and tax paid. When you buy a new car you take a massive hit in depreciation instantly and are negative equity for a number of years.

Be sensible and buy a used car, the magic words are "High paper value."

This is a random example of how long it can take to break even i.e. you can scrap the car for an amount equal to the outstanding loan.

2007 BMW 525i Price Singapore - sgCarMart (http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info_financial.php?ID=212342)

You are looking at least SGD1000 per month on a small used hatch back in buying and running costs. A big engined Merc will run $500 a month in road tax alone

ONE.MOTORING - Home (http://www.onemotoring.com.sg)