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JSCL
6th Oct 2011, 01:52
I think most of us here are Apple lovers (I know I am!). Steve Jobs passed away in the last 24hrs aged 56.

Sad news indeed.

11Fan
6th Oct 2011, 01:55
I believe that they are going to have a tribute section on their website.

Apple (http://www.apple.com/)

It's the lead story on every channel and news website here in the states.

He was my age. :sad:

redsnail
6th Oct 2011, 01:59
It's the headline story on the BBC site. RIP Steve. :(

Lyman
6th Oct 2011, 02:19
He was the real deal. And he made it look easy. The valley is somber tonite.

rmcb
6th Oct 2011, 03:52
As a former network analyst, I can certainly say his creations caused me many a late night of headaches and cursing. That said, a great visionary, the likes of which we see rarely on this rock. RIP Steve Jobs - best of luck with the legacy Tim Cook.

rvv500
6th Oct 2011, 04:00
RIP Steve Jobs, a legend who revolutionised computing, music players and phones.

ORAC
6th Oct 2011, 04:33
Almost everything--all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure--these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.....

Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of other's opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.

Steve Jobs

Dream Land
6th Oct 2011, 04:36
I was lucky to have some friends turn me on to the Apple products about two two years ago, Thank You Steve Jobs!

Capetonian
6th Oct 2011, 06:54
As a Luddite and technophobe, Apple's products are pretty much irrelevant in my life, but it is sad for the world to lose such a genius at such a young age. He has changed the world and enriched the lives of many people with his foresight, genius and his creativity.

RIP

TwoTone-7
6th Oct 2011, 07:56
What an achiever and legend, sad day.

BombayDuck
6th Oct 2011, 08:11
Even though I don't really like Apple's products - they're not designed to suit me - I have to acknowledge that Jobs was a legend of his time. Incredible man, sad to see him go.

mixture
6th Oct 2011, 08:12
The IT industry has just lost one of its best.

In an industry dominated by commoditisation, product feature-count and undelivered marketing promises, Jobs retained a hands-on, dogged focus on retaining product quality whilst continuing to push boundaries, both in terms of industrial design and product functionality.

In 1997 Apple was staring into the abyss, Jobs's turnaround of the company with the introduction of the "i" generation of products and OS X was an awe inspiring example of business mastery and team leadership.

RIP Jobs and Long Live Apple.

visibility3miles
6th Oct 2011, 08:17
He'll be missed.

flying lid
6th Oct 2011, 10:18
Rare these days that a large corporate top man is an innovator, company leader, forward thinker, excellent presenter, knows the product and it's markets top to bottom, and is extremely customer focused. Steve Jobs was all these.

R.I.P. Steve.

Lid

Tankertrashnav
6th Oct 2011, 10:28
I think most of us here are Apple lovers (I know I am!).


Pretty sweeping assertion - I occasionally use my son's Apple laptop and it seems to me to be no better than my Packard Bell at about 50% more in price. Could never see what the fuss was all about myself.

Still, RIP the man - 56 is no age to go, and he seems to have made a lot of fans in his lifetime.

Mechta
6th Oct 2011, 10:41
Rare these days that a large corporate top man is an innovator, company leader, forward thinker, excellent presenter, knows the product and it's markets top to bottom, and is extremely customer focused. Steve Jobs was all these.

It normally only applies when the 'corporate top man' is also the company founder. It starts to go pear-shaped when the accountants take over.

Storminnorm
6th Oct 2011, 10:50
R I P Steve, thanks for contributing so much to so many peoples' lives.

sitigeltfel
6th Oct 2011, 11:18
A Windows fan myself but he was just the foil needed to give Microsoft a run for their money. Without his vision and competition IT would have been a poorer place.

Akrotiri71
6th Oct 2011, 12:40
17" MacBook Pro (home use), 120GB iPod, MacAir (travelling).
Nice one Steve..:ok: RIP.

rmcb
6th Oct 2011, 12:42
It starts to go pear-shaped when the accountants take over.

That time has come - with the advent of usable tablets, the iSmugs will be horrified to see the great unwashed using their now cheaper devices/birthright.

Shame.

:E

digidave
6th Oct 2011, 12:54
I've never been an Apple lover, but have been a long time Steve Jobs admirer.
Very clever bloke.

arcniz
6th Oct 2011, 12:57
Steve Jobs passing really puts paid to a remarkable era in business and human history.

By 1974, many thoughtful people sensed that a confluence of new technologies - large-scale integration of transistor electronics, relatively recent maturation of digital computer engineering, software and applications design, telecommunications evolution in both legal and electronic terms, and a stong trend toward global prosperity (at least relative to prior periods) was about to enable a wave of change that would eventually affect nearly everything in industry, science, technology, and business.

With the emergence of the large-scale-integration microprocessor as an entire computer-on-a-chip, small players could pursue this prospective future on footing equal to -- or even better than - established companies, which were reluctant to make their existing products and profits obsolete by rushing out new models. Startups - on the kitchen-table scale and larger, suddenly had an edge and a key to vast market opportunities that could quickly put them on footing equal to or ahead of established industrial giants.

The MOS Technology 6502 microcomputer caught the attention of would-be entrepreneurs in this moment of change. The 650x family was designed by a team at MOS working under Chuck Peddle, (later to found Commodore Computer and subsequently acquire Atari Corp.) who a year before was Chief Engineer responsible for creating the Motorola 6800 - a pioneering 8-bit microprocessor from an industry giant, so the 650x microprocessor chip-set emerged as, in a sense, a Second-Generation 8-bit computer-on-a-chip that became available even before most of the first-generation ones were in distribution. MOS was known to be very successful in the still-black art of making complex calculator chips using a very new low-power high-speed integrated-circuit technology called CMOS - so the 6502 was a hot but scarce item. Jobs and Wozniak got their hands on a few 6502's toward the end of 1975, and used those to design the Apple 1. They had nearly all the right ingredients, were in the right place, and soon were on a roll.

That first product was primitive, but it had some features that caught hold and created a backbone of strengths which allowed the succeeding Apple 2 to be well received. Especially helpful were the unique floppy-disk writing methods used in their early products, and their straightforward way of using TV screens as cheap-effective text and graphic monitors. Various other quirky but unique software-hardware-peripheral features and capabilities attracted paying customers and also created a basis for intellectual property rights which would help shield Apple from cutthroat competition in the early years. It got them started.

From the thousands of small start-up enterprises that were begun in 1974-76 with visions and goals and products similar to Apple, only a very few have survived intact to the present -- and those have had to become large businesses competing in a mature industry where opportunity comes mostly to big players -- not to startups that have to scrape for a toe-hold.

So now the Spring of the Computer Age is mostly done. Another brilliant flower from it has passed from view, but sure to be forever memorable for having seeded a richer future for a thousand other such Springs to come.

TURIN
6th Oct 2011, 13:11
As this is Jet blast can ijust (sic) say....

His death is being treated as suspicious.

Police are looking for an iWitness.

The SSK
6th Oct 2011, 14:08
Here's the obit from Management Today. It mentions a wart or two ...

Steve Jobs, 1955 - 2011 - Leadership, business and management news, tips and features from MT and Management Today magazine (http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/bulletin/mtdailybulletin/article/1097527/steve-jobs-1955-2011/)

Parapunter
6th Oct 2011, 15:41
As this is Jet Blast...

I heard he's not really dead, the nurses are just holding him the wrong way.

rgbrock1
6th Oct 2011, 15:50
RIP Steve.

I have been following Steve Job's career since he first starting creating computers, with Woz, in their garage. From Apple, to NextStep, to Pixar and then back to Apple. The man was a visionary and a real genius. (A damn good marketer as well.)
Steve was one of those rare breeds who could convince people they needed Apple's newest gadget, whether they wanted it or not.

I know people who used to work for Steve at Apple. And, on occasion, he could be a "slave driver" in getting his people to do things. His way. No questions asked. But to a person, all who worked for Steve agreed: Steve could be hard... but always fair.

The world has lost yet another extremely creative mind.

Ancient Observer
6th Oct 2011, 16:18
It is often sad when someone dies.
However, I have few crocodile tears for someone in the public eye just because they are in the public eye.

As the SSK points out via the Management Today article, Mr Jobs was very far from perfect. He will not go to Heaven.
He was very bright and able, and made his shareholders very rich by behaving unlawfully.

His actions which are not in the Management Today article which I think are worse than those in the article are related to the Retail Price maintenance that he insisted on World wide. This is an evil practice, and regulators should have stopped it.

Airborne Aircrew
6th Oct 2011, 16:38
My personal opinion is that anything technological that's name starts with an "i" is a true demonstration of the power of marketing over good sense.

Whether Jobs was a genius in marketing or technology there's little doubt he was something of a genius...

G-CPTN
6th Oct 2011, 16:47
Despite his undoubted wealth (and influence) he was unable to reverse the effects of his illness.

Just saying.

Mac the Knife
6th Oct 2011, 17:10
Neither could George Harrison, Rockefeller or Getty.

And your point is?

Matari
6th Oct 2011, 17:23
As the SSK points out via the Management Today article, Mr Jobs was very far from perfect. He will not go to Heaven. He was very bright and able, and made his shareholders very rich by behaving unlawfully.

That meandering statement goes from reasonable (who is perfect, after all?) to silly (who knows who will go to heaven if it exists?) to just plain spiteful.

Here was a very driven, artistic and savvy man who built a company from his garage, employed thousands, who pushed the technology envelope far and fast, and created markets where none existed, and yes made smart investors wealthy.

Unlawful? Prove it.

Better yet, just let the man lie in peace.

rgbrock1
6th Oct 2011, 17:26
Who the Hell wants to go to Heaven anyway? If I did I'd be surrounded by a lot of people I wouldn't like!!!!!

rgbrock1
6th Oct 2011, 18:44
http://cdn.pocket-lint.com/images/Ctn4/steve-jobs-apple-ceo-dies-0.jpg?20111006-142043http://www.apple.com/stevejobs

con-pilot
6th Oct 2011, 18:46
Due to my wife, we have friends in the music entrainment business, to a person they all have Apple computers as they are much more compatible to art and music that any Window system.

The world has lost a great visionary, perhaps one of the greatest.

Sir George Cayley
6th Oct 2011, 19:14
Apple's influence stretched back over time as well as shining a light into the future.

Apparently Victorian school kids used the iSlate:rolleyes:

I didn't 'get' Apple for many years but I do now and regret the years of lining Gates' pocket instead of Jobs'.

He did once say that death was the way of clearing out the old to make way for the new. I think the space cleared by his passing is somewhat larger than most.

Sir George Cayley

rgbrock1
6th Oct 2011, 19:23
Con-pilot:

I think you'll also find lots of Apple products in the publishing realm as well.

con-pilot
6th Oct 2011, 19:36
I think you'll also find lots of Apple products in the publishing realm as well.

That would not be surprising in the least.

Parapunter
6th Oct 2011, 19:39
Prior to world domination in phones and mp3 players, Apple were known for strong graphical and dtp capabilities, hence the creatives love of them.

rgbrock1
6th Oct 2011, 19:46
Very true parapunter.

A little tibit of, perhaps, not well known knowledge.

Micro$oft Word was originally created for the Macintosh. Well before the Windows version!!!!!

Helol
6th Oct 2011, 20:01
Con-pilot - they have also been extensively used in the film industry too - especially with regards to music/sound.

As parapunter says, the creative industries have used Macs for years.

Parapunter
6th Oct 2011, 20:09
Apples great insight was to understand that in order to make computers appeal to the average consumer, it would be necessary to simplify actually using them. Hence the graphical user interface. Instead of writing a few lines of code or basic or whatever, you would have a picture of a bin on screen - something that everyone can understand.

Bill Gates nicked that idea you know.

Apple persisted with that notion throughout their products. Essentially, I've always seen MS products as Ikea IT - we'll make it, but you know, you have to get your tools out to fix it & keep it going.

Whereas Apple stuff, was more like a mechanic running across the garage to smack you on the hand as you try to lift up the bonnet. We do that. You don't do that, that's our job.

Me, I've always been good with my hands and careful with my money. I'm a Microsoft man. Also I have a pal who is an MCE & he gives me free Microsoft everything. It helps.

rgbrock1
6th Oct 2011, 20:32
Me, parapunter? I'm a Systems Engineer by profession. (Mainframe type: OpenVMS, IBM AIX, Linux, etc.) Yet, I've been a lifelong Apple supporter. Yes, Apple's computers are exactly as you illustrated: don't you open that hood, we'll do that for you.
(Actually, that isn't true anymore with OS X which includes a Terminal program which allows the users to wreak havoc on the system if he/she so desires. Via command line interface. Sort of like the old DOS prompt.)

Anyway, dealing all day with the vagaries of mainframe systems (all command line btw) it's nice to be able to sit in front of a system - A Mac for example - that is simple to use, elegant, and tightly integrated. I don't care about tinkering with my personal computing devices. I could if I wanted to but I just want something - on my own personal time- that simply works in an intuitive way. And that is the beauty, if you will, of Apple products.

Your mileage may vary!

PS: I may be wrong but I don't think it was Mr. Gates who nicked the idea of icons. I believe that idea was nicked by Mr. Jobs after visiting Xerox in their Palo Alto, CA labs back in the '70's. Xerox at the time was researching the beginnings of a Graphical User Interface (GUI) but later dropped the idea because they didn't think anyone using a computer would be interested.
After seeing the assorted desktop icons and other graphical interface items at Xerox's labs, Steve Jobs used those ideas, refined and incorporated them into the Apple Lisa.
Gates had nothing to do with any of this.

The Apple Lisa:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Apple_Lisa.jpg/280px-Apple_Lisa.jpg

Parapunter
6th Oct 2011, 20:47
Wasn't Windows 1.0 full of gui bits and bobs pinched from the Apple Lisa? Windows 1.0 was 1985 wasn't it? Whereas Lisa IIRC was 1981.

Airborne Aircrew
6th Oct 2011, 21:27
I think it's important for those lauding Apple and Jobs and, at the same time, giving Microsoft a bit of a pasting that that wonderful iPad and iPhone wouldn't exist without Microsoft for it was Microsoft that bailed them out back in 1997 with $150M when Apple was on the ropes and about to go down.

Just for honesty and accuracy's sake... :ok:

con-pilot
6th Oct 2011, 21:40
Microsoft that bailed them out back in 1997 with $150M when Apple was on the ropes and about to go down.



I did not know that, just proves that ya learn something new every day.

Parapunter
6th Oct 2011, 21:50
Weeel... it was a lawsuit between the two over the gui thing as it goes, that Apple were going to win, but would probably go bust before they did so.

MS were being crucified in the court of public opinion over the matter so bought the stock in Apple & agreed to continue producing office for mac. It did save the day, but Bill probably regrets it now, but it was politik at the time.

The lesson is IT companies sue one another constantly over copyright infringements. The bigger lesson is the big dogs bite the small dogs & mostly the small dogs get hurt.

arcniz
7th Oct 2011, 07:26
Doug Englebart - at Stanford Research Institute - was a strong advocate of object-oriented "languages" for programming from the mid-60's forward. He also patented the original mouse, with the application filed in 1967.

Alan Kay, interested in education, joined on early in the history of Xerox PARC, which was/is located in the Stanford Industrial Park, just south of the vast Stanford Campus at Palo Alto, and some three or five miles away from SRI's hq facility in Menlo Park.

Xerox desperately wanted to recycle their significant profits, from selling dry-process copiers, in new technology that could provide follow-on business opportunities before the copier patents ran out -- so they poured mony into PARC in the early 70's, and that financed creation of whole new computer designs and software systems that were to be used as conceptual tools, rather than manufactured and distributed. Xerox also acquired a computer company, Scientific Data Systems, in 1969, and began to groom that for adventuring into a product world that had not been invented yet.

By 1972-73, software incorporating Kay's ideas of graphic object-symbols as program constructors, combined with Englebart's mouse and his ideas about object-structured programming functionality were running real-world applications on the made-for-purpose Alto computer platform -- all for experimentation inside PARC. I saw it, got the tour from Mr. Kay, and played with it some in early '73 (roughly) when Kay was talking it around various parts and groups inside Xerox Corp (a company with many dozens of subsidiaries and divisions and several hundred thousand employees at the time), looking for internal "clients" that could help vouch for the tens of millions of $$ required to make commercial products from the very polished demonstration systems.

At that point, Kay's Smalltalk software environment was roughly equivalent to "Windows 2.0 for 3-year olds" -- in 1973.

When they had worked through the Xerox Corporate internal and affiliated company prospects, the same PARC group began to reach out to outside companies and individuals, and to publish quite a lot of descriptive material in journals and trade press. Likely it was during this phase, say mid-1974, when both Gates and Jobs gained some initial awareness of the concepts, approaches, and related topics of GUIs, mice, object-oriented programming, etc..

At that time -- and well into the 1980's, the US Patent System did not allow patenting of software per se. Programs could be copyrighted, but that did not protect the concepts embodied therein, only the specific expression of a program in a specific release. In order to protect the conceptual content of programs, the patent system (through its rules of practice and case law) required that software must be shown to have a specific enabling form in a specific type of electronic or mechanical machine in order to be patentable. This concept worked well enough in a world of mechanical pulleys and gears, but had little useful application for operating systems, programming languages, and user interface programs that would modify invisible bits inside computers, with no net mechanical effect on the outside world. The effect was that most software could not be protected for intellectual property content except through secrecy and obscurity of the design -- a condition that persisted well into the 1990's -- and the reason why software agreements still are based mostly on copyright law rather than patent law in the US.

For all the brilliant things done at PARC -- and ones in many other Labs, businesses, and Universities, the lack of effective software IP protection in the US was the kiss of death for the process of continuing projects into products that people could have and use. It explains a lot of the functional screwiness in contemporary state-of-the-art software, also.

Xerox mostly did not commercialize products from the many ideas and results derived at PARC. XRX never aggressively pursued successful business in the computer industry. XRX sold off the computer company in 1976, then went on to offer various products that included computers, but were basically machines for support of copying and graphics reproduction.

hoofie
7th Oct 2011, 07:46
I'm sorry the man is a dead st such a relatively young age but some of the fawning media coverage is just nauseating. Apple only hit their current stride with iTunes, iPod and then the "Jesus Phone" - they have a lot of history before that with failed products; and you are still paying fat premium for that logo.

They have had a lot of fails and have delved in business practices that are light-years away from there supposed 'coolness'. [They are currently suing Samsung to stop sales of a competing tablet whilst there own technology follows on the work of Xerox as described by arcniz]. It's a corporation selling electronics to make their shareholders rich; not researching a cure for cancer or world hunger.

I have an iPhone and an iPad. I love the interface but well understand it's not the work of one man but thousands of them [the Chief Designer Jonathan I've deserves a lot of the credit for those products]. Technically an Android device outshines it but the market speaks.

The world is a poorer place without Steve Jobs but a sense of proportion is required.

hoofie
7th Oct 2011, 07:49
Apple persisted with that notion throughout their products. Essentially, I've always seen MS products as Ikea IT - we'll make it, but you know, you have to get your tools out to fix it & keep it going.

Whereas Apple stuff, was more like a mechanic running across the garage to smack you on the hand as you try to lift up the bonnet. We do that. You don't do that, that's our job.

..or you can use Linux where your car is presented to you in 6 large wooden boxes in bits with a HUGE construction manual ! [ok not really true now..] but then you have put it together it will do 500mph and get 400mpg.

aviate1138
7th Oct 2011, 08:43
Having started with a 128K Apple back in 1984 and not any Microsoft PC product [because the Mac was so easy to use and I was not a computer geek] I stayed with Apple [even during the dark days of Gil Amelio] and really like to get to my desk every morning to be greeted by a computer that is also a work of art and sets my mood for the day…. happy.

I presently use a fully loaded iMac which makes no noise, has a 27" bright LED Screen and is fast enough to do anything I ask of it. Since 1984 the only Apple product that failed that I bought, be it Mac, iMac, PowerMac, Mac Pro, PowerBook etc was a 22" Cinema Display which Apple replaced FOC.

Quality product the Apple and hopefully it always will be. Apple service usually covers any problems and a lot of this [Apple teamwork notwithstanding] was the presence of Steve Jobs at the sharp end. RIP Steve and may Apple reach new heights in the future.

Dop
7th Oct 2011, 09:09
The graphic user interface originated with Xerox.
Without Steve Wozniak, there wouldn't have been an Apple I.
Without Jonathan Ive, there wouldn't be an i-anything.

The phrase "standing on the shoulders of giants" applies here, I think.

Ancient Observer
7th Oct 2011, 12:46
Matari,
Most of the world has laws which mean that Retail Price Maintenance is unlawful.
A number of Companies routinely break these laws. Apple is one of them.
I regard that sort of behaviour to be both immoral and unlawful.

Matari
7th Oct 2011, 13:02
Ancient Observer,

I regard that sort of behaviour to be both immoral and unlawful

If you don't like Apple products, don't buy them. It really is that simple.

The fact that a grumpy old internet poster--using a graphic user interface pioneered by Steve Jobs and adopted by Bill Gates--thinks that Jobs is a criminal does not make it so.

Ancient Observer
7th Oct 2011, 13:07
True. And I did start with sadness over his death.

However, a quick Internet search has failed to reveal any i-whatevers at a lower price than one would pay in central New York.

Matari
7th Oct 2011, 13:19
And how much of that price outside the US has to do with your VAT and other taxes? Apple products have a global customer base, and the Apple supply chain employs millions around the world. You should probably look at Brussels and London for the real criminals.

Parapunter
7th Oct 2011, 13:22
Apple supply chain employs millions around the worldBit of a claim.

aviate1138
7th Oct 2011, 13:34
Steve Jobs was also involved with PIXAR and was at ILM when George Lucas began funding for the Graphics Group, part of LucasFilm's Computer Division at ILM San Rafael. I was in the same building so saw a lot of the development work going on. Lucas decided it was costing too much money and Steve Jobs bought Pixar. Steve Jobs wasn't just Apple. He had vision. He also founded NeXT.

Not a bad trio of involvement.

Matari
7th Oct 2011, 14:15
Bit of a claim.

Really?

Take into account the entire supply chain, from microchips to packaging to retail and air freight (aviation content!), and it would quickly add up.

There are shops from Lagos Nigeria to Karachi and Sao Paolo selling colorful Apple accessories, many locally designed and produced.

But one thing is certain: Jobs has actually created more jobs than any Brussels bureaucrat or Chicago community organizer has ever dreamed of.

Parapunter
7th Oct 2011, 14:59
Take into account the entire supply chain, from microchips to packaging to retail and air freight (aviation content!), and it would quickly add up.

You're confusing supply chain with manufacturing and retail and even if you weren't, you're miles off. Apple employs 47000 employees directly & 2800 part timers according to this:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9Njc1MzN8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlP TM=&t=1

So if you can show me how millions (plural) are employed I would be amazed. Governments don't employ millions, so unless you're counting the customers, their wives, brothers, cousins, dogs, everyone at DHL and all those who've ever seen an Apple ad, I call guessity guess on your part.

Millions my arse!

sitigeltfel
7th Oct 2011, 16:22
some of the fawning media coverage is just nauseating.

The world is a poorer place without Steve Jobs but a sense of proportion is required.

Exactly. Apple projected itself as the cool liberal alternative to the rabid capitalist Microsoft while being just as aggressive in the market. Stories regarding the low wages paid to its suppliers workers underscore one of the main reasons for its success and profitability.

Cacophonix
7th Oct 2011, 16:30
Was interested to see Wozniak interviewed last night. He seemed entirely convinced of his and Jobs' genius. Oh well, I guess genius doesn't come easily or humbly!

I have never owned a piece of Apple kit but enjoy the banter with the true believers, like my brother, who drank the kool-aid years ago. Personally I believe that apples make better cider!

I guess the best and worst that you can say of Jobs was that he was a billionaire buddhist!

Caco

Tankertrashnav
7th Oct 2011, 21:15
I'm sorry the man is a dead at such a relatively young age but some of the fawning media coverage is just nauseating.


Today's Times

Page 1 - Main story - Steve Jobs dies
Page 2 - First leader - 'Great Jobs'
Pp 4-9 - Steve Jobs 1955-2011 (yes all six pages!)

Pp 72-73 - Obituary (guess whose?)

Wish I'd bought the Sun instead, at least there'd have been some t**s to look at :*

Airborne Aircrew
7th Oct 2011, 22:42
Don't forget, in the US, Obama is pushing his Jobs Bill... :ugh:

arcniz
8th Oct 2011, 00:19
Parapunter says:

Governments don't employ millions


Up-to-date numbers are surprisingly hard to come by, but the total employee numbers for the State & Federal Govts in the USA, in 2009, seems to be:

US Govt - non mil TOTAL Payroll 09 15.1 million
State Governments payroll est 09 18 million
US Govt - mil -active & Reserves 09 2.4 million
======
total est gov active employees 35.5 million

est gov ret employees collecting pay 16 million
======

TOTAL 2009 US payroll headcount for Govt employees 51.5 million

Total US census population 2011 (including 10-20m illegals) 307 million

Parapunter
8th Oct 2011, 00:47
If anyone can show me that Apple's total supply chain employees exceeds 2 million, as postulated by Matari, I will dance on my hat.

In lieu of that, I will ignore selective higlighting of the biggest government in the western world as spurious counter arguments to a point made in general argument and as such, disingenous in the extreme as one sees so often here.:)

arcniz
8th Oct 2011, 03:40
Parapunter says:

If anyone can show me that Apple's total supply chain employees exceeds 2 million, as postulated by Matari, I will dance on my hat.


Given the northern hemisphere's present wintry trend toward compounding inclemency, we are concerned that you dancing on your hat might damage it, leading to exposure and a mortal chill, such that you might be able to ask the question to himself directly - before the rest of us - but then be frustratingly unable to access the bandwidth to pass it along, down here. That would prove quite an unhappy denouement to a hasty boast, so please do not interpret anything here as a dare to follow through.... Better it might be, possibly, to eat the hat -- just a nibble or two.

Since the essence of the instant thread is thoughts in memoriam of Mr. Jobs, it might be instructive to explore the impact this one person has had on our world, as it exists today.

Probably you intended the meaning of "Supply Chain" to specify the employee rolls of the businesses that directly provide products and services to Apple, Inc. in order to move Apple goods to market. Two million "employees" (a difficult concept subject to wide variations in definition) is a very large number, in terms of contemporary commercial parlance and perspective.

One proposes another definitio for "supply chain", special for this occasion, such as to include the whole envelope of supply, demand, and operational imperatives within the commercial-economic scope that has projected Mr. Jobs thoughts and intentions onto the canvas of the larger world.

In this "supply" framework we'll count not only the services&parts-sellers that directly source things to Apple, but the vendors and resources that supply them in order to produce the parts, and the level below that, and so-on for seven or eight levels of commercial exchange enabling the existence and distribution of Apple products. We'll also include the "supply of money" component, with investors (including pension funds, insurance companies, widows, orphhans, etc. that invest and have invested in the company stock), debt, banks, usw. And finally we'll include the "supply of demand" component that is comprised from all the product buyers and users, and the various distributors and copywriters and media channels and, of course, people working for Government who all grow a little fatter off the presence of the ongoing enterprise.

That, I would offer, approximates the true calculation for "supply chain" associated with Apple's business, from conception to now. It approximately represents the number of souls directly and (mostly) beneficially involved in Steve Jobs' existential legacy. The right number for his legacy's reach is likely more than 2000 million, rather than any paltry lesser figure, if properly and truly accounted ...for. That is the net-net contribution of Steve Jobs - from age 16 through 56, that came about for lack of a collision with some other destiny less interesting and less productive than the one he followed.

Parapunter
8th Oct 2011, 08:41
It's an interesting, if highly prolix argument Arcniz. I still think you are paid by the word.;)

However, where do you draw the line? Is it with the people who make the tyres on the tucks that deliver Ipods? Or perhaps the rubber farmers who supply the rubber for the tyre manufacturer for the trucks that deliver Ipods.

Or maybe it's the catering supplier who cooks the meals that keep the tyre workers going? Or even the electric company who light the factory where the tyres are made? Why not the security guards who stop people stealing the tyres so that the trucks can roll with Ipods?

The point being that it's possible to argue one way or the other that more or less the whole world is involved. It isn't though. Millions is the point in question and millions it aint. Now where's the salt & pepper?

Cacophonix
8th Oct 2011, 08:52
I quite like this argument that looks down the supply chain with its associated concept of causation and numbers all as Apple beneficiaries.

Perhaps my total indifference to Steve Jobs and Apple products so enraged people like my brother, the archetypal Apple disciple, that he went out and purchased his plethora of Apple mulch as a result (reverse causation you see).

The results of this insight are profound. By lying down and doing absolutely nothing I may be benefiting hundreds, nay millions of factory bound peasants world wide. I am so pleased with this idea that I am going to do nothing. There I am now lying down.

See and feel the joy...

Caco

arcniz
8th Oct 2011, 10:12
Parapunter says:

It's an interesting, if highly prolix argument Arcniz. I still think you are paid by the word.

When It is down to communication or not, one would rather give you, the eager and earnest reader, the delight of crossing out the words you may consider unnecessary, rather than the anguish and stress of having to think up any ones you might believe to be essential but missing.

arcniz
8th Oct 2011, 10:23
Parapunter says:

The point being that it's possible to argue one way or the other that more or less the whole world is involved. It isn't though. Millions is the point in question and millions it aint. Now where's the salt & pepper?

S'ticklin the butterfly's gonads, innit?

arcniz
8th Oct 2011, 10:39
CACAPHONIX says:

The results of this insight are profound. By lying down and doing absolutely nothing I may be benefiting hundreds, nay millions of factory bound peasants world wide. I am so pleased with this idea that I am going to do nothing. There I am now lying down.

This may be the Tao of Millennial Macroeconomics, really:

Everyone in the ancient world of patience and accepting one's lot goes crazy over consumerism, while those in the Western sphere of consumption and possesion-aspiration suddenly find time and cause to nap a lot, look at the stars, and ponder the liason of haiku and kama-whatsis.

Cacophonix
8th Oct 2011, 11:14
and ponder the liason of haiku and kama-whatsis

Or justly simply Prune. Listen to the sound of one hand typing (on a Windows PC)! :ok:

Caco

CR3dM-GlZK8

Chesterbelloc
8th Oct 2011, 15:19
Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011) - Find A Grave Memorial (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=77692175)

Tankertrashnav
8th Oct 2011, 16:08
My son owns an Apple computer.

He also currently owes me round £600 (around the cost of said computer, coincidentally).

Wonder if I'm in the supply chain, ;)