Support for Qantas Staff

[Wedcue]

I’m just throwing my support behind the TWU guys and their fight for better pay and conditions.



[FONT=Verdana]BETTER!

PLUS those who criticise the timing, well, if you want maximum impact.....
[COLOR=#000000]

[Arnold E]

PLUS those who criticise the timing, well, if you want maximum impact.....

Now thats the facts.:D

[TBM-Legend]

you selfish bozos have just disrupted my family travel today including a small boy's dream vacation....hopefully I can return the favour..:yuk:

[Arnold E]

.hopefully I can return the favour..http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif

I hope you can as well, But at the rate its going there will be nothing left... cheers big ears.:ok:

[RATpin]

TBM- sorry about your holiday plans but buyer beware. It's not as if Industrial action has not been widely flagged.

[Arnold E]

It's not as if Industrial action has not been widely flagged.

3 Days notice , in-fact

[flyingfox]

Think the weather is more of an issue right now, rather than legal industrial action. By the way; 'aviation expert' geoffrey thomas thinks Qantas staff are going for 'undeliverable' conditions. This amazing gentleman is now an 'economic commentator' as well. No doubt he has direct access to Qantas financial figures etc. What a legend! :mad:

[gordonfvckingramsay]

TBM

My holiday plans have gone off without a hitch thanks to VA. :ok:

Makes you wonder does it not?

[Arnold E]

you selfish bozos have just disrupted my family travel today including a small boy's dream vacation.

Well TBM, there is no question that what you say is correct, however, what about my small boy's dream which will be affected forever, not just once, but forever, if nothing comes of this action, or, the action does not happen at all. Perhaps you can explain to my small boy why his parent is a selfish bozo?
Actually, I am not involved in this particular action, but at least I can look past my own self interest.

[Trent 972]

tbm-legend

you selfish bozos have just disrupted my family travel today including a small boy's dream vacation....hopefully I can return the favour..http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif

Why are you venting your spleen in a pilots forum, presumably attacking Qantas Pilots?
We are going out of our way to not disrupt passengers, with our PIA.

Surely you intended to post in the TWU baggage handlers forum.
Off you go then.

[TBM-Legend]

if this is a "pilot's forum" why is it full of engineer, F/A and other rants...

This is caveman stuff methinks...

[Arnold E]

Support for Qantas Staff

You either support Q staff, or you dont (pilots and TWU )
Which is it Trent? or is one group more important than the next? you pilots could, ofcourse, throw your own bags. (I'd like to see that):rolleyes:

[Ken Borough]

The troglodytes taking industrial action against Qantas, be is legal or otherwise, are hastening the end of their employment. Nothing, repeat nothing, can justify inflicting hurt, harm etc on an employer's customers. Once bitten twice shy is the attitude of many punters - they have long memories and also know that Qantas staff are some of the better paid members of Australian society and enjoy conditions that many workers would die for.

It's high time that the TWU, ALAEA and AIPA (an unholy alliance if ever there was one) woke up and realised just how fortunate is the collective membership.

(My kevlar vest and full face helmet are on!).

[Trent 972]

Arnold, I wish you all the best with your PIA.
My union and your union are quite different. I really don't care much for the TWU as you would no doubt ignore the AIPA.
My union has so far made a concious decision to not carry out any actions that will delay Qantas customers.
As for slinging my own bags, rarely ever check in a hold stow bag nowadays. Had it lost too many times in the past. However if I did then that's what you get paid to do.
I'm not better, just different.
and for Ken B, you don't need kevlar, and a full face helmet won't cover the d!ck on you head.
edit
I would like to add that I do have respect for the Bag Snatchers, the Cabin Cleaners, the Check-In staff and especially the Engineers, everyone except for the Drongo Management fools who it seems are hell bent on destroying Qantas. I just think that we are seperate groups, no better or no worse than each other, and we are certainly not an 'Unholy Alliance' as Ken halfwit B says. There is no alliance that I know of, rather that Qantas Mismanagement have abused the Fair Work act and delayed and lied until all the groups contracts ran out and have been forced into PIA to secure our jobs.
It's an Airline, it's QANTAS, it's more than just a brand.

[Arnold E]

It's high time that the TWU, ALAEA and AIPA (an unholy alliance if ever there was one) woke up and realised just how fortunate is the collective membership.

Is that right?? please explain.

[Arnold E]

I really don't care much for the TWU as you would no doubt ignore the AIPA.

Actually I am an engineer, not TWU, but they are still working mates and do their job and deserve respect for what they do!

[JustJoinedToSearch]

Pilots, cabin crew(I think), engineers, baggage handlers and ground staff all taking recent industrial action (or at least agreeing to it).

Something tells me the employees/unions aren't the problem.

[Arnold E]

Something tells me the employees/unions aren't the problem.

Ahhhh, now somebody is getting the idea.

[Tooheys]

TBM , why are you even on this forum if you have so much hostility to this topic? your little TBM mentality is irrelevant and grossly insignificant in anything but a GA forum - get with the program dude, who cares about your sprog when infinitely larger and more important issues are at hand than your convienience and comfort......go to a site like woolworths.com/floorlickers/staffgrumbles etc if you want to type something on your $2 laptop, please enhance this forum by being a SILENT READER.

10-4

[Arnold E]

who cares about your sprog when infinitely larger and more important issues are at hand than your convienience and comfort....

Actually,I care about his "spog" and mine and everybody else's. It would be great if everybody could go to their employer representative and say, look, you have just taken a 70% pay rise, could I please have a cost of living rise?, and because I want long term employment, said employer representative says, sure I understand that you have a family too, and commitments like I do, so, yes lets do a deal right now. Can anybody(Ken) see any flaw in this proposal?? If you can please point it out to those that cant see it.

[unseen]

If the Qf pilots think that their PIA is seen as separate to the that of the ALAEA or the TWU they are living in a fools paradise.

The public don't care, all they see is disrupted travel plans and the unions flexing their muscles.

To the public AIPA = ALAEA = TWU = BLF = WHARFIES etc.

Initial support is waning, the public has a very short attention span.

Remember, 82% of international pax have already given up on you!

Differentiate from the other unions now or die!

[Ken Borough]

Arnold,

If the unions agreed with a CoL increase, I think the Company would jump but there is a lot more involved than a simple pay rise to keep up with inflation. For example, unions are apparently seeking security of tenure. No one in 2011 in their right minds would agree with that concept. Same applies to improved travel conditions, subsidisation of union activities etc. Need I go on? Action hurts the Company, not just directly with delays etc but goodwill. If a traveller feels that the unions are going to bugger-up his or her travel, he or she will travel with another airline. It's that simple. That is the result of industrial action.

[Sunfish]

Ken:

If the unions agreed with a CoL increase, I think the Company would jump but there is a lot more involved than a simple pay rise to keep up with inflation. For example, unions are apparently seeking security of tenure. No one in 2011 in their right minds would agree with that concept. Same applies to improved travel conditions, subsidisation of union activities etc. Need I go on? Action hurts the Company, not just directly with delays etc but goodwill. If a traveller feels that the unions are going to bugger-up his or her travel, he or she will travel with another airline. It's that simple. That is the result of industrial action.

1. The company has not even offered cost of living increases.

2. Nobody has asked for "security of tenure" they just want an end to the deliberate offshoring of jobs.


3.Your point about good will is correct. Qantas has ignored it for years. Ask anyone who paid for travel via Qantas and finds themselves on a Jetstar service.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

I fully support the baggage handlers, engineers and the long haul pilots. Their claims are fair and reasonable, give them hell.

TBM if your holiday was ruined by PIA, which everyone that reads a newspaper or watches the evening news is aware of, could I suggest that you either took a risk in booking QF ( and lost the gamble ) or are stupid. I do not believe you are stupid, so accept it and move one.

Unseen, you are the president of a very small club. These union actions are nothing like the Wharfies strikes or the mining unions ( striking because of no pink ice cream ).

If QF management thinks 3% is CPI, I want some of what ever illicit drug they are taking.

[balance]

Ken, as usual you post the same company tripe. Is your name Leigh Clifford by any chance?

Lets break down your verbal diareah.

For example, unions are apparently seeking security of tenure.

Nope. They are seeking that jobs be kept Australian, not outsourced to cheap overseas labour, with no superannuation, no OHS, lesser laws with respect to training and standards. There is a significant difference to your pathetic attempt at spin.

Same applies to improved travel conditions

Hang on fella. Why is this a problem? Managers were given significantly improved travel benefits in their remuneration packages. Why is it a problem for the staff? Two sets of rules mate? And before you start the "we can't compete with overseas carriers crap, you should remember that overseas carriers give their staff WAAAAAAYY better staf travel than this cheap and nasty mob.

Need I go on?

Yeah, you probably do mate, and with the spin that you and your filthy mates go on with I'm sure you will. But I'm just as sure you will be wrong.

Action hurts the Company, not just directly with delays etc but goodwill. If a traveller feels that the unions are going to bugger-up his or her travel, he or she will travel with another airline. It's that simple. That is the result of industrial action.

Yup, it does. But this bizarre mob are actually trying to bring it on, because it is covering up their woeful ineptitude. They can spin to blame the unions for the hurt to the company.

The simple fact of the matter is this. The unions can take the action that they are, and die. Or they can sit back and let the greedy filth (aka Qantas management) kill the airline anyway. Either way, the end is nigh. But at least if they fight, there might be some chance. I would rather take that chance.

And in any case Ken, I'm very surprised you keep popping up here. You really are a glutton for punishment, aren't you?

[E&H]

Re #20 Arnold E...seems reasonable to me.

I see on this mornings news the pollies are seeking a pay rise that would see their wages doubling...nice if you can get it...but it puts paid to all the CEOs and Government ministers out there who ask us all to show wage restraint in these difficult times (which seem to have been happening since I started work in 1979) and then turn around and receive a 50-100% pay increase...as for not expecting a guarantee for a committment from the company that your job is secure I think that is a reasonable ask from the staff of Qantas...after all unlike the pollies they don't recieve a lifetime pension in the form of a very lucrative superannuation scheme once we have dismissed them...you could argue these points all day however I will say again that I don't believe what the staff of Qantas are bargaining/stopping work for is unreasonable...Qantas has had plenty of notice.

What if one of these CEOs turned around and said something like "I value this brand, this company, these people and where it came from and from whose shoulders we now stand on...so I am going to do everything in my power to make it work...and if we all pull together we can make it work"...

That's whats missing today...no can do, no let's roll up our sleeves and make this work...

"Work is only opportunity dressed in overalls"

Nah sorry...I'm dreaming...however look at what Rob Fyfe has achieved during his tenure with Air New Zealand...it is possible.

Your comments sound reasonable to me Arnold E...the rubbish coming from Qantas management sounds like what it is...spin

I don't work for Qantas and I don't work in Australia

[DutchRoll]

Ken, you've got me totally snookered there. Well done. Good darts.

When you post something so brief, but which is complete rubbish on so many different levels, I feel that it's impossible to post a response within the constraints of what I'd consider a "reasonable" length post on pprune.

You should probably start by actually determining exactly what it is they're seeking first, rather than just making it up as you go.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

I fly Qantas on a regular basis.

I flew internationally the other day and noticed all the pilots except the Captain had those hideous ties (they really don't suit the uniform).

There was no "AIPA" PA made on this flight - which was nice for a change as it is becoming old.

The other day the CPT did the PA during decent. I thought they're supposed to do it after docking at the gate?

[DutchRoll]

1. They're not supposed to suit the uniform. The idea is for them to stand out!

2. The Captain may well have been a management pilot (or other management stooge) if he wasn't wearing the tie. If it was his sector, it's also unlikely he would do the PA. It's not compulsory to either wear the tie, or do the PA, but it's strongly recommended if you want anyone to chat to over a beer or dinner.

3. The PAs have changed as of a couple of days ago. There are now 4 different PAs depending on the circumstances: domestic, delay, and international inbound/outbound.

4. It doesn't particularly matter when the pilot does the PA. He can do it at a time of his convenience or choosing so long as it doesn't interfere with safety. Just as with most other PAs. There are many personal opinions among pilots on which time is most appropriate, but I wouldn't be losing any sleep over "when" it was done.

[C441]

Dutchy beat me to it but anyway.....

I fly Qantas on a regular basis.
Thank you. Loyal Qantas staff do sincerely appreciate that. We cannot keep the airline going without the support of people like you.

I flew internationally the other day and noticed all the pilots except the Captain had those hideous ties (they really don't suit the uniform).
Some crew are unable to participate in the PIA (and thus wearing of ties and being included in the PA) for various reasons not limited to non-membership of AIPA, managerial pilots, unable to vote in the PIA ballot due to any number of reasons or simply do not support the PIA.

Strangely, the ties get a generally positive response if any. I've told a few times by other staff and passengers that the whole 'normal' uniform is old fashioned and the tie is a breath of fresh air!

There was no "AIPA" PA made on this flight - which was nice for a change as it is becoming old.
For that reason you may find on your next flight that it has changed content and intent.

The other day the CPT did the PA during decent. I thought they're supposed to do it after docking at the gate?
There is no specific time to do it. It is just done at an 'appropriate time'.

[ohallen]

C441,

You touch on a good point re the staff appreciating the support.

Why isn't this message coming out that the staff are questioning what is going on outside the industrial action and getting the point across that valued customers are leaving because of what management are/ are not doing?

Or is the culture of this company so toxic that this isn't allowed to happen or is ignored?

[DutchRoll]

Or is the culture of this company so toxic that this isn't allowed to happen or is ignored?
Ricin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricin) is less toxic than the management culture of this company at the moment.

At least the military have developed an antidote to it. There is no known antidote to being "Alan Joyced".

[blow.n.gasket]

Except for a surgically secured cloaca!!!;)

[priapism]

Inflight Qantas words a turn-off | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/inflight-qantas-words-a-turn-off/story-e6frfq80-1226156708087)

[fl610]

I think that all former TAA (Australian Airlines), Ansett, East West Airlines and IPEC employees should be encouraged to give the same level of support to the QF group employees as they gave to us back in the year that can't be mentioned! :E

[Syd eng]

Not entirely sure how you overseas a bag handlers job. You can't bring in foreign labour to do the job in Aus, and if they are in overseas ports then I would have thought that it was acceptable to use overseas labour.
You can it is called 457 Visa,

[Tankengine]

fl610, It appears you don't know just how much support you did get!:ugh:

[fl610]

Tankengine - Sure do. It lasted a good three days!:ugh:

[Higs]

Dutch Roll "wear the tie if you want to have a beer or dinner with the others". OH boy, that reminds me of "that year". No matter which side of the argument you are, thats an immature attitude!

[DutchRoll]

Well let's stop talking absolutes firstly, Higs.

I said "strongly recommended". The simple fact is that if you don't wear one as a long-haul pilot, you run the risk of being identified as someone who doesn't support the cause of fighting to retain our jobs in aircraft with red kangaroos and "QANTAS" painted on the side. While personally I don't tend to race to final judgement until I have listened to someone's point of view (eg, maybe it just got chewed by the dog), others certainly would.

Is it "immature" to not particularly be interested in socialising with someone who doesn't support your cause or who even might be actively involved in sabotaging it? I mean, really? I'd contend that such behaviour is entirely natural, understandable, and commonplace in all walks of life. Would you go and have a nice pleasant dinner with someone who you feel might be happy to stab you in the back?

[fender]

Ans is simple.

Some ****head with a calculator is sitting in some dark corner with no windows. He inputs 15,000 x $1/hr = $15000. Then he multiplies 15000 x 8 = 120,000....
etc etc.

[ejectx3]

Re Inflight Qantas words a turn-off | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/inflight-qantas-words-a-turn-off/story-e6frfq80-1226156708087)

Check the author, the one and only , Joe Hildebrand, so what do you expect...

[Arnold E]

No matter which side of the argument you are, thats an immature attitude!
No its not!

[Arnold E]

Check the author, the one and only , Joe Hildebrand, so what do you expect...

Word for word reprinted in Adelaide Advertiser.:yuk:

[CaptCloudbuster]

Regarding the propaganda piece from Joe H.... I was farewelling pax a couple of days ago and received the following raucous feedback from a disembarking customer

Stick it up the Leprachaun!!

Stick that in your pipe and print it Joey:}

[clotted]

Dutchroll,
fighting to retain our jobs in aircraft with red kangaroos and "QANTAS" painted on the side.
My contact in the airline tells me that is not what your claim is about. It should be but it's not. He tells me your claim covers Jetstar, Jetconnect, EFA, Network the FIFO in WA, Cobham and the american B747 freighters.
Maybe that's why you're getting very little traction.

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Why do people who should know better continue to refer to 'RED' kangaroos?

Last time I looked, QANTAS aircraft were adorned with 'WHITE' kangaroos. Sure, the tail is red, but...:ugh:

[Abbreviation Slic]

clotted,

Unsurprisingly, your Qantas source is wrong. AIPA is not demanding Qantas terms and conditions for all other pilots. The 'exclusion' clause is there for this reason.

[clotted]

your Qantas source is wrong. AIPA is not demanding Qantas terms and conditions for all other pilots. The 'exclusion' clause is there for this reason.

I have checked with my Qantas source who is an AIPA member and he says that those entities named in my post above are not on the exclusions list. He also says that means that pilots employed by those entities must be employed under the Qantas pilots EBA or terms no less favourable.
In my view that doesn't equal jobs in aircraft with red kangaroos and "QANTAS" painted on the side. or even with white kangaroos on the tail.

[Back Seat Driver]

clotted, you can check with your source as many times as you like but it is still wrong.
The 'Exclusions List' is to remove aircraft operations that carry QF flight numbers and aircraft painted in the QF paint scheme, from the claim. (Dash 8 services etc)
The airlines you name will not be subject to our claim if they operate under their own name, use aircraft that aren't painted in Qantas colours, not use QANTAS flight numbers and callsigns.
Your source has it Bass Ackwards.
We are asking for Qantas Pilots for Qantas Flights!
If you fly aeroplanes that DON'T PRETEND to be QANTAS flights then we have no claim to that.

[Abbreviation Slic]

clotted,

The exclusion list is open to negotiation. That is what the two parties are supposed to be doing right now. Unless, of course, Qantas aren't genuinely interested in negotiating around that clause?

[clotted]

The 'Exclusions List' is to remove aircraft operations that carry QF flight numbers and aircraft painted in the QF paint scheme, from the claim. (Dash 8 services etc)
The airlines you name will not be subject to our claim if they operate under their own name, use aircraft that aren't painted in Qantas colours, not use QANTAS flight numbers and callsigns.
That is exactly what my source is telling me.
BUT that is not:
jobs in aircraft with red kangaroos and "QANTAS" painted on the side.
That is my point and that is not the point of the advertisements around the roads and on the backs of the buses in a simple reading of the ads.

[Back Seat Driver]

That is my point and that is not the point of the advertisements around the roads and on the backs of the buses in a simple reading of the ads

The catch phrase used on the posters (http://www.france24.com/en/20110722-qantas-pilots-begin-rare-industrial-action) is simply
When you board a Qantas flight, you expect a Qantas pilot
in big bold letters. Quite simple and to the point, really. If you still find the message confusing, then perhaps you might consider removing the last three letters from your handle. :sad:

[clotted]

BSD, you are very aggressive for a BSD.When you board a Qantas flight, you expect a Qantas pilot
Qantas is in overdrive on spin. There is no need for you and AIPA to follow them.
How can a Joe Public such as myself come to grips with the fact that you reckon that if you have a white aircraft with a red tail and a white rat that you reckon it should be a Qantas pilot (which I fully support) but on the other hand you also reckon that the pilot of a silver and orange aircraft should be a Qantas pilot and the pilot of a red/green/blue/yellow 747 freighter registered in the US should be a Qantas pilot as should the pilot of a B717 flying in WA should be a Qantas pilot as should the pilot of a Network aircraft (whatever their colour scheme is)?
I know that you and others say that adjustments can be made by Qantas to get around this but how does that promote your cause if Qantas plays your game and makes those adjustments to get around your parameters? My questions are, why should they have to and how does it guarantee your job security if they do as you suggest to get around your demands? Surely that gets you back to where you are today? Meaning that Qantas continues to use all legal means available to it to run its business the way it sees fit which in turn means that your ability to move to higher ranks and on to bigger aircraft which means more money for you is not in the same time frame as you saw it or see it. Welcome to the world. Names like Pacific Dunlop/Bluescope/Oz Mitsubishi/Vegemite/Edgells/Fletcher Jones/Streets/Kelloggs/BHP/Arnotts/Greece/Ireland/Portugal/Spain are just a few to come to mind where employees or residents have had their career dreams shattered by corporate decisions.

[framer]

The simple fact is that if you don't wear one as a long-haul pilot, you run the risk of being identified as someone who doesn't support the cause of fighting to retain our jobs in aircraft with red kangaroos and "QANTAS" painted on the side.
And if someone has weighed it all up, and decided that they are quite grateful to be earning three times the national wage to sit in the third seat, and that with a wife and two young kids they'd rather keep their head down and take a chunk off the mortgage than strike..... you hold that against them and exclude them from social gatherings? That is pathetic.
I support the QF pilots, and if I worked for QF I'd wear one of the ties, but I would be ashamed of myself and any colleagues who ostracised someone for having a different opinion. Thats just playground stuff.

[fl610]

I support the QF pilots, and if I worked for QF I'd wear one of the ties, but I would be ashamed of myself and any colleagues who ostracised someone for having a different opinion. Thats just playground stuff.

That is all fine Framer as healthy debate is good for everyone, however if people don't want to support a collective bargaining process than they should be prepared to negotiate their own terms and conditions and not just accept what others have given their time and efforts to achieving.

I am fairly sure that if people negotiated for themselves as individuals then they would no longer be earning three times the national wage to sit in the third seat

[DutchRoll]

Red tails. White tails. Mea Culpa. Now let's move on........

[framer]

however if people don't want to support a collective bargaining process than they should be prepared to negotiate their own terms and conditions and not just accept what others have given their time and efforts to achieving.


Yes. Yes they should.
Now what does that have to do with how we, as supporters of the collective bargaining process, conduct ourselves in their presence?

Joining the pack and ostricising people who are thinking differently to us doesn't help the situation, it does make us look bad.

The only possible reasons I can see for that sort of behaviour are
1/ An attempt to bully them onside.
2/ An attempt to make yourself feel better by directing frustration and anger at someone in the absence of a management representative.

[Wunwing]

What is going on in this context is a mirror of the debate that we should be having as a Nation. Apart from digging holes and drilling pipes inthe ground, what employment do we intend to have in the near future for our citizens?

I find (again) TBM comments astounding. TBM,you have kids and you are not interested in what they will do in the future?I suspect that this debate is far more important than a child missing a flight.

The fact is that Australia, the Nation, not the airlines, own the international traffic rights and these rights should be used for maximum benefit to the Nation, not just to the benefit of a small group of self interested parties.It is hard to see a better benefit than employment, taxation, defence, local investment and a well managed and profitable Australian airline industry where employees work hard and are remunerated accordingly. This has certainly benefited Australia up to recent times. Now we only see benefit in going for the cheapest and that means offshoring.However Executives are never offshored are they?

All this was tried with our shipping industry and now it barley exists.Are we now heading to a transport industry, including domestic, that totally relies on overseas assets and labour? If its OK for domestic airlines why not buses or trucks? Why can't we use 247 visas to drive our trains?

The problem with Qantas is the when it was privatised the sale included the Qantas Sale Act.It was there to stop exactly what now seems to be happening.The Govt as whole (all parties) need to examinine what is going on and act now or repeal the sale act altogether in an act of honesty.

As a shareholder in Qantas I am disgusted with Qantas management.The share price is at an all time low and their solution seems to be pay themselves more, propose wild schemes and pick arguments with every employee in sight.

Government,where are you?

Wunwing

[balance]

And Wunwing has very neatly and eloquently hit the nail very squarely on the head. Well said, Sir.

[CaptCloudbuster]

I nominate Framer for the inaugural Ghandi Award for peace, love and turning the other cheek.....:D

Wonder if he would still be in the frame to win if he actually had to live his principles?:rolleyes:

[framer]

Is it not at least worth aiming for CCB?
For what it's worth I give it a crack....no crime in that is there?

[framer]

I mean, seriously, the alternative is the rubbish we've seen before with threatening phone calls and physical intimidation etc, we've seen that before and it didn't get us anywhere. If you think it's worth it and ok then I respect that, it's just that I reckon we should learn from it.

[DutchRoll]

Framer, the only verbal threats and acts of intimidation I've seen so far are actually towards the ones taking the industrial action. The intimidation traffic, as a whole, has been largely one-way and oddly enough, most guys are refusing to buckle and also quite rightly refusing to retaliate beyond what is authorised by PIA, no matter what the temptation.

Furthermore, my reference to "ostracising" (if that's what you call not particularly wanting to socialise with an individual) was directed towards specific types of individuals. For example, the one who quoted the following exact words under his real name in a private message on an internal QF pilots message board, in reference to not joining the industrial action and not particularly caring what happened to more junior pilots (I have a copy of it BTW): Enjoy the rest of your career. What's left of it. Ha ha ha ha.

There are certain words to describe people like the above which cannot be written on these forums. These are precise examples of individuals with whom I'd choose not to socialise. But apparently my attitude is an immature one? What, shall I send him a nice christmas card instead? Invite him round for dinner? :confused:

[framer]

I understand that, but thats not what the conversation is based on, it was based on someone not wearing a tie.
I'd remember that this is a career/job. It is worth fighting for but you're not going to freeze to death next week. Your childeren are'nt going to starve to death. The water in the well (tap) is still fresh. It can be a whole lot worse, so there's no need to compromise your character or manners.
Anyway, I'm gunna bow out of this now, it's not my fight. I hope you guys get the conditions that you're after. I hope that the corporate rot is removed and you can go about your jobs without being attacked from above. I mainly hope that you don't turn in on each other. Play your own game and if someone is not quite on the same page then so be it, If you focus on them you're focussing on a p1ssy little sideshow and wasting energy while making yourself look bad. Just my opinion after seeing how people can lose perspective.
Cheers, Framer.

[teresa green]

Management must just love this blog. I don't care if you are a Pilot, Engineer or Bag snatcher, you are cactus if you don't stick together against the common enemy, and its one hell of a enemy. Close ranks fella's otherwise you are buggered.

[73to91]

There's some additional support rolling in Executive pay: the high cost of market failure (http://www.smh.com.au/business/executive-pay-the-high-cost-of-market-failure-20111010-1lh2o.html)

the support is in the comments posted at the bottom.

[ohallen]

In my increasingly frustrated efforts to show some support for QF staff, why doesn't someone involved seek a way for non shareholders and non staff to show that support at or outside the AGM?

I would willingly give my time but don't have the resources to organise anything.

Any ideas?????

[mcgrath50]

qantaspilots.com.au

[ohallen]

Did that a long time ago and since registering have heard NOTHING.

That was my point, You have a lot of support out there but we feel wasted.

[busdriver007]

Should get something today....:)

[indamiddle]

qantas l/h cabin crew have recently been getting support from an unexpected area. borgetti has already recruited a number of crew who took the package. he asked qantas for a mailing list of crew but was knocked back. he is looking to boost the number of senior crew on board, particularly towards cabin managers.

[Conductor]

If you have signed the petition on qantaspilots.com then you should have received an email providing information about how you can vote against resolutions at the AGM. There is a link to qantasshareholders.com

If you vote online then make sure you print out a receipt of your vote after it is registered. There is a "Receipt" button.

[ohallen]

Yes that is for shareholders, but what about others who want to show support?

Seems we may have game on with Mrs Austen though and it may be worth watching.