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View Full Version : Is it time to leave the UK?


BarbiesBoyfriend
29th Sep 2011, 02:32
I'm a Capt in a well known Big Airline . Not BA, but a wee bit of it.

I see ten years of keech coming at me.:(

So,

1. Is ten years of keech actually coming at me? - (yes- and it's coming to you too)

2. Should I bugger off and work in a place where they are not broke and sucking every penny out of me? (Yes. Do it now!).

3. Do I want to? (erm. no)

As the middle class pay most of the tax in this country, I see a giant nosebleed a-coming for us idiots.

Sod it.

What to do?

rh200
29th Sep 2011, 03:13
I thought you guys where going to do that a while ago, but the GFC came along and worked out you couldn't afford to?

Not a big fan of the Idea, but hay your place your choice. I believe states should actually join together over time as there values approximate the same, instead of splitting just because its some national pride etc. If theres some great schism well then yea.

I (AUS) would think about a joining with the Yanks or the poms under particular circumstances, but that is way off. I guess its the view point of sooner or later we need to come together as one government. That is different to the huggy fluffy model though.

Hence I personally have been against the Scots going it alone. I like to think of them as the dark horse type of thing always threating to but never really going to do it. Same as us in Western Australia, though we have never had the history or different identity thing like you guys.

waco
29th Sep 2011, 03:18
Well the low waged (say £20,000 and less) pay far more tax than you do in real terms. So you must be objecting to the rich who pay the least tax since they can employ people to find the loop holes.

Are the rich going to pay the correct amount of tax....doubt that Mr C and Mr O will do something about that. Most of the cabinet are millionaires.

So I guess if you dont fancy paying your share then off you go.

Bronx
29th Sep 2011, 03:37
So you must be objecting to the rich who pay the least tax

:confused:

He very clearly said what he objected to. As the middle class pay most of the tax in this country, I see a giant nosebleed a-coming for us idiots.

rh200
29th Sep 2011, 03:44
Damm after re reading the thread and title, I see I have had a complete mind $#%^, this is not good and its only the start of the day, maybe I should go and get pissed (drunk).

finfly1
29th Sep 2011, 03:44
I sort of grew up (in the Colonies) with the UK as my idol.

No more.

Frankly, if I were of the right age, I would seriously think about leaving the states for a variety of reasons.

alisoncc
29th Sep 2011, 07:09
There are 25 world-class golf courses within an hours drive of where I live if you are into that sort of thing. Plus countless vineyards, olive groves, gourmet restaurants, clean beaches and beautiful countryside, and no pollution to speak of.

Weather's okay, 'cept for last night when the lightning took out one of my computers and the ADSL2 modem. Doesn't get particularly cold in Winter - typical minimums of plus 5 to 6 deg C, don't get any frost. Occasional very hot days in Summer - high 30's, few enough to count on fingers of one hand.

Only downside, decent pubs are in short supply. Tendency towards cavernous beer drinking halls surrounding by millions of pokie machines.

Cacophonix
29th Sep 2011, 07:26
My bother is looking at moving to New Zealand. His view being that if he is going to be bankrupted (or screwed) he would prefer to have it happen in a beautiful country with a little sunshine.

I share your fears for the future here in the UK BarbiesBoyfriend but there is still a lot to be said for the United Kingdom. Having spent a substantial proportion of this year working away I can say that I was never happier to see Blighty. Still staring at my tax bill and shaking my head though.

Caco

sitigeltfel
29th Sep 2011, 07:34
So you must be objecting to the rich who pay the least tax since they can employ people to find the loop holes.

A pathetic whine, and frankly untrue.

Most of the "rich" you talk about have probably created businesses that have provided employment for many people. As a reward, successive governments will have gouged them for VAT, employers NI, corporation tax and a host of other charges. Close behind them will be local councils who levy crippling business rates, far in excess of any service the company would receive in return. It has got to the stage where the biggest cheque a business has to make out to its suppliers every month goes to one government department or another.

So I guess if you dont fancy paying your share then off you go. Paying ones share is more than acceptable to me, paying the shares for the scroungers, the feckless and the indolent is not.

Bye, bye!

westhawk
29th Sep 2011, 07:38
This has happened during every recession, depression, economic downturn, famine, war or serious crisis of any kind throughout modern history. Feeling like chucking it in and moving to some illusive land of greater opportunity is a common response to the malaise that goes with hard times. I sure feel it.

Where is this land of promise?

Where would one go now?

Come up with a good answer to that question and I may consider going there too.

In the meantime I guess I'll just bear down and do my best, looking forward to better times that may or may not come.

Keep a stiff upper lip and all that rot! :ok:

stuckgear
29th Sep 2011, 07:42
left leg...

:D:D:D

It gets tiring listening tothe ill informed marxist rubbish...

The rich have been hit equally hard by taxation and as for the rich not paying their fair share, that's just infantile. if taxation were a blanket 20% of income, then the 100,000 a year income earner would pay 20,000 into the system and the 10,000 income earner would be paying 2,000.

Lancair70
29th Sep 2011, 07:50
A Professor of Economics from the University of Georgia created this to help explain the Income Tax and how cutting taxes works.
It seemed that 10 men decided to have a business lunch once a week. They always met in the same restaurant and the bill was always, $100.00, for all 10 men. If each man was responsible for his share of the bill that would be, $10.00, each. The men decided to divide the bill based upon their ability to pay. Using an agreed upon formula the following payment arraignment was worked out based upon income.

Men 1-4 who made the least amount of money paid nothing.
Man 5 paid $ 1.00
Man 6 paid $ 3.00
Man 7 paid $ 7.00
Man 8 paid $12.00
Man 9 paid $18.00
Man 10 paid $59.00

After several weeks the owner of the restaurant told the men that because they were such good customers he was reducing the bill by $20.00. Their delimina was how to divide up the, $20.00. If each person got the same amount then the first 4 men would be getting money back but they never paid anything for the dinners. After much discussion and no resolve the owner offered the following suggestion which they all agreed to.

Original Payment New Payment $ Amount Saved % Saved

Men 1-4 paid $ 0.00 $ 0.00 $0.00 0%
Man 5 paid $ 1.00 $ 0.00 $1.00 100%
Man 6 paid $ 3.00 $ 2.00 $1.00 33%
Man 7 paid $ 7.00 $ 5.00 $2.00 28%
Man 8 paid $12.00 $ 9.00 $3.00 25%
Man 9 paid $18.00 $14.00 $4.00 22%
Man 10 paid $59.00 $50.00 $9.00 15%

Once out side the men began to argue about the settlement. Man 5 said he only got, $1.00, while Man 10 received, $9.00. Men 1-4 were upset because the received nothing. They said that the cut only benefited the rich and the poor got nothing. They were upset so they beat up Man 10 and left him. The next week they met for lunch as usual except man 10 did not show up. When the new bill arrived the men discovered that between them they did not have enough money to pay even half of the bill.

Blacksheep
29th Sep 2011, 08:08
I object to being called Middle Class. I was born and remain Working Class - even while I was "Management" - and its we who pay most of the tax in UK, and anywhere else for that matter.

To answer the question posed by Ken in his opening post, yes its time to leave UK. It always is. I did it in 1980 and stayed away until I retired three years ago. Retirement in UK is of course, impossible. We only came back because of the grandchildren, but I was driven back to a full-time job within six months to put a crust on the table. And our youngest daughter's table... and put a roof over her head.

I can manage to live here but its the future of our bright and eager young people that worries me. Homes are already beyond their reach, next it will be education for their children. Eventually when even decent food becomes a luxury there'll be a bloody revolution I suppose. Thats the lesson of history. So my advice to anyone who has the qualifications and drive to leave and set up somewhere else is "Go For It!"

ExSp33db1rd
29th Sep 2011, 08:10
My bother is looking at moving to New Zealand. His view being that if he is going to be bankrupted Yes, (or screwed ) Yes he would prefer to have it happen in a beautiful Yes country with a "little" sunshine. Yes

As an ex-pat Brit. I don't see myself returning, but don't get carried away with all the Clean, Green, hype, they have a good publicity machine that they believe in, ( but ask our local oyster farmers who were recently closed down for sewage contamination due to ill managed Council services ) and as for the weather - Aus. it ain't. Don't forget what makes it green - to feed all those four legged lawn mowers.

And whilst you might yearn to live in a town where one can fire a gun down the main street at 6.00 pm each day - and anytime on Sunday - with no fear of hitting anyone ( except perhaps a few yobs on skateboards, didn't we have those in the UK 40 years ago ? ) I reckon we actually need twice the 4 mil. population to make things work properly, i.e. a bigger tax base to provide some money, ( dare I say for decent public transport ) providing the extra were spread around the country properly of course, which wouldn't happen, so Auckland would really have a problem.

Whilst the population remains fairly steady this is largely due to the Kiwi's who are shipping out to Aus. being replaced by Asian immigrants ( sound familiar ? ) and a certain indigenous peoples flexing their Political muscles whilst taking benefit handouts for producing 'extra' children (sound familiar ? ) which bodes ill for the future - tho' of course they deny it.

Don't get me wrong - Could be worse and I'm not going back, unless they throw me out ! (which after this they probably will !)

OFSO
29th Sep 2011, 08:56
My dear old mum used to say it's easier to be poor in a sunny country than in a cold one.

Saw a Mercedes McLaren* parked outside the Hotel Salins, Empuriabrava, here last week. Ferraris and Lambos don't turn a head (and there are plenty of them here) but everyone was photographing the McLaren. Something for the poor to aspire to.

* Andorra plates, of course.

wings folded
29th Sep 2011, 09:23
Sitigeltfel wrote:

A pathetic whine, and frankly untrue.
Most of the "rich" you talk about have probably created businesses that have provided employment for many people. As a reward, successive governments will have gouged them for VAT, employers NI, corporation tax and a host of other charges. Close behind them will be local councils who levy crippling business rates, far in excess of any service the company would receive in return. It has got to the stage where the biggest cheque a business has to make out to its suppliers every month goes to one government department or another.


VAT:
Businesses recover VAT they pay on purchases, and include VAT in their invoices to their customers who pay the VAT which is then passed on to the Revenue. So how have they been "gouged" for VAT? Employees on the other hand cannot recover VAT on purchases.

NI:
There are many different rates, but the Class 1 rate for employers is 12.8%. You forget that employees pay NI too. For them it is 11%.

Corporation tax:
Corporation tax is 25%. A "middle class" employee is probably taxed at 40%.

Local rates:
Many comparatively well off households obtain less "services" than their rates would justify; to have no children of school age, for example, means that one is paying quite a premium for the services one does in fact use.

And you overlook completely that:

-businesses can deduct many expenses before calculating profit and therefore tax; salaried employees cannot

-the cost of VAT on any given purchase is the same for the rich and the poor, but the burden is greater the poorer one is

-the owners of businesses have many perfectly legal options open to them to minimise their contributions to one government department or another (e.g. avoid NI contributions by taking a dividend, not salary). Employees have few or no chances of any such astuce.

Let me know if any of this is "frankly untrue", or if you classify it as a "whine", whether pathetic or not.

alisoncc
29th Sep 2011, 09:42
Oz must be one the few warm countries where the govt isn't talking about cutting back on services as an austerity measure. English speaking (vaguely) as well. Public transport, hospitals and law enforcement are adequately funded.

Relatively low unemployment and an economy that is going gang-busters cause the Chinese seem to like buying the stuff we just dig up out of big holes in the ground. Real estate is a bit of a bubble, which is mooted to burst soon. Personally find the Mornington Peninsula, where I live, very similar to the UK of thirty/forty years ago. Not a lot of drama or strife, and plenty of pleasant enough people around to socialise with.

stuckgear
29th Sep 2011, 10:01
Wings folded,

It's not clear what you are driving at.

A business and its principles take on a risk in terms of providing goods or services for profit. A business is not a social support system.

Your postulation is very vague. perhaps you could assert your position.

charliegolf
29th Sep 2011, 11:35
BBF

I wonder whether you're serious, or just sparking an interesting debate? You don't say whether you LIKE life here- surely the important thing. I do, aint going anywhere. I find the decision a 'non-one'.

According to your job description, you're very likely to be in the top 5% of earners before or after tax etc (ONS); and also probably PAYE. Most in that group (me too) OUGHT to be able to get by?

CG

sitigeltfel
29th Sep 2011, 13:06
And you overlook completely that:


One thing you have conveniently overlooked is that I had to go out and create all that wealth in the first place. Platoons of regulatory bodies, tax officials, diversity and equality commissars were lining up ready to divest my company of cash it had not yet earned.

The final straw for me was when I ran up against HMRC over an unpaid VAT bill. The reason I could not pay it (and some suppliers) on time was because another government department, to whom I had supplied goods and services, on time, on budget and specification, had not paid me for three months. They had no excuse other than "its in the system, we don't know when the payment will be made". I put them on pro forma which finally woke them up, as I had exclusive rights to the product and they threatened me with breach of contract citing, "failure to supply." Kafka doesn't get a look in.

If the people of the UK are happy with the regime they have to endure, then good luck is all I can say. You're bloody well going to need it.

OFSO
29th Sep 2011, 13:23
Confession: I left in 1968. Every now and then I go back for a few days* to see if I made a mistake. Every time I leave** knowing I didn't.

* last Thursday

** last Tuesday

er340790
29th Sep 2011, 15:17
Left UK in 1988. Worked all over the world for 9 years in 40-odd countries. Then based on Continent for 7 years and moved to Canada in 2004. Get back to UK every year or two, but it now feels like just another country, not my native land.

Emigrating is not for everyone, but it worked for me. For every 10 people who tell me they'd like to emigrate, less than 1 probably will. Inertia is a massively powerful force.

In truth, the only hard thing is to make the decision. Once you do that the rest is surprisingly straight-forward.

And if it don't work out for you, you can always go back! :}

Storminnorm
29th Sep 2011, 15:41
Worked overseas a couple of times, but had to return to UK
as I didn't really fancy having FFrench or Ddutch speaking kids.

Spanish would have been fine, but never found a decent job there.

G-CPTN
29th Sep 2011, 15:54
Spent three years living and working in Denmark (with the family) and we integrated to the extent that the children were 'indistinguishable' from Danish children (and often selected to lead class events such as group singing or reading aloud).

Main reason for returning was that the children were becoming Danish (not a bad thing) but the Danish educational system was without formal exams and qualifications, so, had they decided to spread their wings and attend university in the UK they wouldn't have had anything to prove their level of achievement other than an appraisal (written in Danish) from the schoolteacher who had followed them up through their years as their teacher.

Gordy
29th Sep 2011, 16:38
Left in 1990, never looked back. Been back twice, once in 92 for 10 days and once in 98 for 5 days---both times could not wait to leave.

I lived in San Francisco area for 8 years, Hawaii for 7, Florida for 1, lived in hotels, (paid by work) for 5 and now bought a house in Salt Lake City. I assimilated into the culture and no longer consider myself even an ex-pat...I am living a dream and living proof that even though many people bad mouth the USA, it is the land of opportunity. I can be what ever I want, and nobody cares where I came from or whether I was lower/middle or upper class.

flyingfemme
29th Sep 2011, 17:13
Corporation tax:
Corporation tax is 25%. A "middle class" employee is probably taxed at 40%.

And then the corporation passes on the profits (already taxed) to the owners. Many of whom risked their homes to start the business and now work long hours to keep the company going.
They, being "middle class", probably pay 40% income tax. Oh, but we've already taxed this money. Don't worry, we'll "allow" you 10% off for taxes paid. So they are "only" taxed at 55%.....unless they reach the 50% band, when they will pay around 65%.
Fair to whom?

Shack37
29th Sep 2011, 17:15
After serving in the RAF from age 16 to 27 I continued working overseas in various countries far and near for the rest of my working life. Because of that I think the UK became a place to visit between projects and less my "home" Then meeting and marrying my Spanish wife and my company's policy of allowing employees to domicile anywhere in Europe made the decision to live in Spain totally painless. Completely integrated and very unlikely to ever consider returning to the UK on a permanent basis.

Helol
29th Sep 2011, 17:37
what's 'keech'?

hellsbrink
29th Sep 2011, 17:39
Left the UK in 2005 (a female was involved) and came over here to België after spending 20 years of my working life in various parts of the UK and the last 8 UK years in London. In my opinion, the best move I ever made. Sure, we get taxed to hell on earnings BUT we have public transport that works, a health service that works, far less tax on essentials like cigarettes (that'll get some people frothing at the mouth :E ), a fantastic selection of beer to choose from, a relaxed lifestyle, no chavs, no gangs of pikeys parking caravans wherever they want, a lack of feral kids compared to the UK, people with better manners, a lack of drunken ringpieces turning city/town centres into war zones on a Friday/Saturday night, housing a *little* more affordable (I pay €455 per month for an 2 bedroom apartment in a nice area/town just outside Antwerp), no absolutely loony "ElfenSafety" rules (there is H&S rules, but they are sensible), a decent education system, enz.

I admit it ain't "the land of milk and honey", we pay more here for a lot of things than in the UK for example, but it's worked for me and quite a few other people from the UK. I ain't saying that it's a solution for everyone, but I like life here and see no reason to return to the UK at the moment unless there's a major change in the UK and I honestly cannot see that happening in the near future.

It's my choice, I've made my bed and now I have to lie in it. And, if I may say so, it's bloody comfy.

hellsbrink
29th Sep 2011, 17:43
what's 'keech'?

A Scottish word that is a substitute for "Poop".


example... "Och naw, it wisnae a fart, it wis a keech"


(PS. The "ch" at the end is like in "Loch" and not like in "cherry")

hval
29th Sep 2011, 18:03
Hellsbrink,

"Och naw, it wisnae a fart, it wis a keech"

You have spent too much time associating with Glaswegians; either that or you have drunk buck fast and caught Glaswegian.

Hval

hellsbrink
29th Sep 2011, 19:36
Nae, laddie, even in the Bridie Toon a keech wis a keech, nae matter fit it wis polished like.

hellsbrink
29th Sep 2011, 19:40
Don't get me wrong, we are fortunate to live in a very nice part of the UK, rural and very civilised indeed. However it's all the tiny niggly things that add up to become one very large niggly thing.

If the "niggly things" are screwing up your own perception of your "quality of life", then you have to look at what you actually want as your "quality of life".

And then you have to decide on what is actually best for you, moving might be the solution but it might not...




PS. Smokes in Lux are cheaper than here, same as Holland. We're still cheaper than France, and I think EVERYWHERE is cheaper than the UK!!

hval
29th Sep 2011, 20:31
Ahh yes. You are not far enough North to say things like "fit alike an vera boots".

I prefer the bridies from Fife myself. Can't beat a steak bride from Stephens; or at least you couldn't in the good old days.

flying lid
29th Sep 2011, 20:39
Ah Merry old England !!

THIS from today, scroll to 1min 50 secs, lie back and think of England.

Sing the Commie hits at 2011 Labour conference (29Sept11) - YouTube

Anyway, where is Utopia !!. (Near Stoke on Trent !!)

Lid

OFSO
29th Sep 2011, 20:52
a fantastic selection of beer to choose from

Hellsbrink, does anyone actually know how many Belgian beers their are ? Of those, how many have you tried, and how many did you like ? My own feeling is I could spend the rest of my life seriously trying Belgian beers, (serious = a few bottles of each), liking them all, and running out of years before running out of beers...

G-CPTN
29th Sep 2011, 22:33
Belgian Beer List (http://www.tiac.net/~tjd/bier/belglist.html)

SpringHeeledJack
29th Sep 2011, 23:03
And then you have to decide on what is actually best for you, moving might be the solution but it might not...

Indeed, ain't that the truth, and let's not forget that wherever you go the one thing that stays the same is you. The caveat being that in moving you might find the 'real' you, such as Gordy earlier on in the thread. The hearsay statistic seems to be 3 years in shangri-la before the lustre wears off and the old problems rear their heads.



SHJ

YorkshireTyke
30th Sep 2011, 00:24
Nowhere's perfect, just that some places are less perfect than others.

If there was a perfect place to live, then we'd all go and live there, then it wouldn't be perfect anymore.

Which is what I guess has happened to the UK, but if all the furriners think that the UK is perfect, which is presumably why the majority came in the first place, why do they then try to make it like the place that they have just left !!

Now that Tetleys has closed I guess there's nowt much left to stay for ?

ExSp33db1rd
30th Sep 2011, 00:55
Now that Tetleys has closed I guess there's nowt much left to stay for ?

Sorry to hear that, YT, but akcherly ..... despite my somewhat negative previous post about NZ, decent beer is one of their plus points. Not the standard Lager that one experiences in most countries outside UK, but some really tasty, full bodied ones. Makes a change.

SpringHeeledJack
30th Sep 2011, 09:02
Which is what I guess has happened to the UK, but if all the furriners think that the UK is perfect, which is presumably why the majority came in the first place, why do they then try to make it like the place that they have just left !!

I suppose that hoomans don't like change, at least not change that is noticeable, more creeping along without being realised. Using the Uk as an example and the observation in quotes above, it was and is inevitable that mass immigration would/will have only one effect on said country. It has been social engineering by those who consider themselves chess-players and the man on the street a mere pawn.



SHJ

flying lid
30th Sep 2011, 16:16
Now that Tetleys has closed I guess there's nowt much left to stay for ?

Well that is (bad) news to me - A pint of Yorkshire brewed Tetleys was allways brilliant. When I was an apprentice boozer in Wigan in the late 60's we had a local choice of Walkers "Headache & spew" Warrington brewed bitter, Greenalls St Helens "spew" bitter and that b***dy awfull Grunhalle lager. Up the road was a Tetley pub, side of the canal, a really rough place but a wonderfull pint of Yorkshire's best - a rare, but valid compliment to Yorkshire from a Lancashireman.

Google says Tetley bitter is now brewed in Northampton, but I find many of these "made elsewhere" beers are never the same as the original brew.

Tetley's Brewery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetley's_Brewery)

We still have some good beers brewed here, especially the micro brewerys springing up everywhere, but beware, some is excellent, some passable, some worse than the original Greenalls.

I agree Belgian beer is excellent & varied, though I get more than a little brassed off supping the "only availiable beer" - local lager in nearly every other foreign land I visit.

Lid

OFSO
30th Sep 2011, 16:23
G-CTPN Beer List. Just amazing. Can't manage them all before I die unless I can get an extension. Or do they have them in heaven ?

I don't think my adoptive homeland is perfect by any means, just when you add up the factors that matter to me, it's better than any other country I have worked or played in.

Storminnorm
30th Sep 2011, 16:33
Are Robinsons still in the brewing business?

I seem to recall that they brewed an acceptable pint.

CATIII-NDB
30th Sep 2011, 17:26
I vagely remember Tetley's as being a bit vinegary - Really awful stuff came from the likes of Vaux or my local brewery Ansells in Brum - that stuff was rough "Nut Brown" a sweet low alcahol drain swill, that proabably owed its exsistance to the "Defence of the realm act 1914" that introduced closing hours and limited the strength of beers to prevent the Arms workers getting ratted - A monumental social act of destruction that Britian never really recovered from.

That's why Brits are a miserable bunch - Another reason to leave [for good].

CAT III

Mr Optimistic
30th Sep 2011, 18:27
Tetleys best bitter draught was magnificent, is it still made ? Greenhalls, yes deary me, that grunhalle or whatever stuff was grim. Never thought much of Tetly's keg.

Another thing to watch abroad is the quality of bread and odd tasting butter and milk. Northern Spain is distinctly peculiar in all these.

OFSO
30th Sep 2011, 19:02
Another thing to watch abroad is the quality of bread and odd tasting butter and milk. Northern Spain is distinctly peculiar in all these.

Can't say I've noticed this here. My lo-fat Spanish milk tastes the same as everywhere else. However one thing Spain isn't very good at producing is cheese, which is yet another reason for living very very near the border and popping over to a country which DOES.

Might start a new discussion: how important is it to live near a border ? In my opinion, very.

racedo
30th Sep 2011, 20:04
Well the low waged (say £20,000 and less) pay far more tax than you do in real terms. So you must be objecting to the rich who pay the least tax since they can employ people to find the loop holes.

Nope

A person earning 20k a year would need to work until 22nd of June before he starts earning money for himself because 21.3% of his pay will go in tax, a person earning 80k a year would need to work until 8th of August as he would be paying 34% of his income in tax.

LGS6753
30th Sep 2011, 20:27
In my part of England:

- there is no crime (nothing reported to Plod for 7 months, anyway)
- I can walk to three or four excellent country pubs that stock proper beer (not lager)
- at night there is no noise apart from owls and the odd fox
- I am six miles from one of the most beautiful market towns I have ever visited
- my friends and family are within 100 miles
- I speak the language and understand all its idiom and innuendo
- I understand the political system, legal system and bureaucracy (even though it's far too intrusive for my liking)
- when people meet in the street, you hear laughter, not shouting or breaking glass
- there are no biting insects, malevolent wild animals or tropical diseases
- the weather is temperate - not too hot and not too cold - ever.

why on earth would I want to move anywhere and lose some or all of these attributes?

Tankertrashnav
30th Sep 2011, 20:53
I tend to agree with you, LGS, but shush, don't discourage all those others from leaving, the more that bugger off, the more room there is for you and me ;)

tony draper
30th Sep 2011, 21:00
No good running anyway,the end times will find you no matter where you go.:E

garp
30th Sep 2011, 22:51
Belgian Beer List (http://www.tiac.net/%7Etjd/bier/belglist.html)Great list but the first one is actually French (1664 from Strasbourg). The rest seems genuine :)

ExSp33db1rd
30th Sep 2011, 23:25
......why on earth would I want to move anywhere and lose some or all of these attributes?

and of course ........ you're not going to tell us where it is !!!

Not sure that being only 100 miles from relatives is necessarily a Good Thing !

( but being 12,000 miles away definitely isn't, either )

Shack37
2nd Oct 2011, 23:11
Now that Tetleys has closed I guess there's nowt much left to stay for ?


OMG, no more Tetleys, did old Sid die or summat? Tea will never be the same!

BarbiesBoyfriend
3rd Oct 2011, 00:25
Guys.

A beer debate was not what I intended, but........damn that English pish and early shutting time.:hmm:

What I'd meant was, is there 10 or more years of shite coming, and might not now be a good time to bugger off to the sandpit or anywhere else that still pays well for flying?

I'm 51 this year. Actually this month.

I don't want to FO, but I see a shitstorm on the horizon.....:(

Cacophonix
3rd Oct 2011, 00:33
Barbie

Turn towards the Delta Echo Tango and push on towards a 27 arrival. Remember that gravity might twist time :-)

Caco

zJzlaezeAtM

flying lid
3rd Oct 2011, 18:55
What I'd meant was, is there 10 or more years of shite coming, and might not now be a good time to bugger off to the sandpit or anywhere else that still pays well for flying?

I'm 51 this year. Actually this month.

I don't want to FO, but I see a shitstorm on the horizon..

I see a worldwide shitstorm on the horizon, will hit everybody everywhere in varying degrees and from differing directions. Money, food, water, energy, jobs, you name it.

Good thread on world situation here
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/456639-globalisation-debt-banking.html

As an island, (or group of islands) we in the UK COULD "weather the storm" better than most - IF we had the collective willpower (British spirit) AND good government AND we left the EU - like quickly. Won't happen though, but where best to bugger off to ? - The sandpit has its own present & future problems. (And no beer !!!!).

If I was a young man, given todays UK conditions, I would consider buggering off, probably Canada, Oz, NZ, or Thailand.

Lid

145qrh
3rd Oct 2011, 21:56
BF, are you thinking of FLyDUbai? Money is OK, clean living chap like yourself could save a fair bit over 10 years. Once you are out of the UK for 5 there are various things you can do with your pension to get it away from the taxman..QROPS...worth having a look at as I have just cashed in a former pension, not sure if it was a good idea but it's done now..

ps Mercer are a complete pain to deal with :ugh:

Mr Optimistic
4th Oct 2011, 22:43
So you're 51 ? I have started counting backwards from 100, making me 42.

Guy D'ageradar
5th Oct 2011, 16:39
Sorry to take it back so far but...

I prefer the bridies from Fife myself. Can't beat a steak bride from Stephens; or at least you couldn't in the good old days.

Nah - they HAVE to be from Forfar to be REAL bridies!

In my part of England:

- there is no crime (nothing reported to Plod for 7 months, anyway)
- I can walk to three or four excellent country pubs that stock proper beer (not lager)
- at night there is no noise apart from owls and the odd fox
- I am six miles from one of the most beautiful market towns I have ever visited
- my friends and family are within 100 miles
- I speak the language and understand all its idiom and innuendo
- I understand the political system, legal system and bureaucracy (even though it's far too intrusive for my liking)
- when people meet in the street, you hear laughter, not shouting or breaking glass
- there are no biting insects, malevolent wild animals or tropical diseases
- the weather is temperate - not too hot and not too cold - ever.

why on earth would I want to move anywhere and lose some or all of these attributes?

Congratulations - if that's what you want, then good for you.

As an expat Scot since 1996, I've spent the intervening years in Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Switzerland, France and back to Dubai. This, after working all over the UK (including NI and various bits of England). While I may not have the credentials of some here, I've at least been around a bit. Oh, and married a foreigner (Canadian).

Of all the places I've lived, none of them even comes close to the 6 wonderful years that I spent in rural France (Haute Savoie). I know that this sticks in a lot of British throats but as many here have already suggested - if you make the effort to learn the language and integrate with the local community, the rewards are many and varied. Often the more so, just because you made the effort.

There's a certain pride in watching your 8 year old kid not only conversing freely in both English and French but translating for those that can't!

In what I consider as my part of France -

- there is next to no crime. People leave their cars and houses unlocked at night.
- I am surrounded by numerous small, friendly, restaurants that provide a 3 course meal for 11 euros and good, inexpensive wine / alsatian / Belgian beer.
- at night there is no noise apart from cowbells and the odd fox
- I am 45 minutes from Geneva, 45 from Chamonix, 45 from lots of great skiing and 20 minutes from Annecy - one of the most beautiful market towns I have ever visited
- my family are within a 90 minute flight and the best friends I've ever made are all around.
- I speak the language and understand many of its idioms and innuendos - the locals are only too happy to help me extend that knowledge.
- when people meet in the street, you hear laughter, not shouting or breaking glass, although they sometimes block the street with their car to chat with their neighbour!
- there are a few biting insects, no malevolent wild animals or tropical diseases
- the weather is great. Real summers and real winters. I can cook a joint of meat / pizza in my wood fired oven /fireplace, while imbuing the whole house with a wonderful smokey smell.

My point is not to imply that "mine is better than yours" - simply to indicate that life tends to be WHAT you make it, not WHERE you make it.

Most Brits (and indeed other westerners) don't have the balls to leave the system that they've grown to know and (to a certain extent) understand. Of those that I've met overseas, many intend not to return - not necessarily because of poor conditions at "home" but because there's so much more to see and do. Those that do return don't tend to stay long - they've learned that life's a lot richer with the opportunity of new experiences.

At the end of the day, to each his own. For me, it's NOT the UK.

Oh, and "Allez les Bleus"! :E

p.s. One of life's greatest lessons came to me some 13 years ago from a friend and colleague who, upon learning that I didn't eat blue cheese for no better reason than I hadn't tried it and EXPECTED it to be awful, immediately declared himself jealous - as he figured that he had probably tried just about everything and no longer had such pleasures to discover. He was proved utterly correct very shortly thereafter, which is just as well because I couldn't very well have lived in France without eating the wonderful variety of cheeses!

G-CPTN
12th Dec 2011, 23:08
Meanwhile, in Germany:- Fifty trains damaged as Munich sees in alcohol ban | Metro.co.uk (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/884607-fifty-trains-damaged-as-munich-sees-in-public-transport-alcohol-ban)

captplaystation
12th Dec 2011, 23:28
To the OP, sorry Ken, I strangely enough (considering my horribly warped humour & generally beligerant attitude) don't visit JetBlast that often.

Mate, **** off now, really, as soon as humanely possible. Did you see the report in the Daily Torygraph website a week or so ago ? "Married British Airways Captain gets Stewardess pregnant" ' Jeezuz f*++ing Christ, do you want to live in a country where that actually makes the newspapers ? . . . Bloody STANDARD, I would have thought ?

In all seriousness, I left in 92 (& was lucky to do so whilst continuing to work for Dame Bishop on a UK contract but based in CDG) but, once you break out the mould, the world is your prawn (sorry Oyster ? no , scallop ? well, it all smells of fish anyhow)
There is no more certainty, nor uncertainty , suffered/enjoyed by working for [email protected],eu, rather than feeling smugly secure with your [email protected] contract tucked in your flightbag.
We are all f*cked anyhow,so you may as well enjoy some decent weather/food/crumpet & leave well behind your misfortune to be born amongst a bunch of boring island -dwellers.

Welcome to (the rest of) the world,that's how I see it, at least. :ok:

B Fraser
12th Dec 2011, 23:44
Annecy - one of the most beautiful market towns I have ever visited

Getting a very close fly-by by a Mirage on a low level exercise while ascending Les Dents De Lanfont was pretty cool too. I nearly wrote off my underwear. A fantastic part of a fantastic country.

Sprogget
12th Dec 2011, 23:53
I have friends in Doussard, Talloires, Grand Bornand, La Clusaz. If I were off, that is where I would be headed. It's a wonderful part of the world & the cow bells are lovely to hear.

OFSO
13th Dec 2011, 08:21
Was up visiting friends in Carcassonne last week. They bought an old apartment and renovated it. Purchase price was half what it would be where I live. Nice city, nice food and wine (but far more expensive than in Catalunia), friendly people - however when P told me what the annual property taxes (rates ?) are on his small two-bedroom apartment in an old building, I nearly died. Check what you'll pay on your property before you move to France.

I mentioned this to a French acquaintance living here in Spain and he smiled and said "why do you think four out of five villas on the coast here are owned by expatriate French who moved across the border ?"

acbus1
13th Dec 2011, 08:46
The UK hasn't had a decent 'Government' in decades. Its getting worse, rather than better. Taxation now nothing short of a licensed criminal activity. The weather is [email protected] The 'free' health service isn't free at all and doesn't look after people's health. Its as crowded as hell. Immigration has been out of control for too long. The UK doesn't make things any more; it shuffles financial deals between computers, operates service industries and 49% of the 'economy' is now absorbed by 'Government'. You don't need a crystal ball to forsee the future.

The grass is always greener of course, I'm a whingeing pom apparently and I'm way too old and locked into seniority to be waltzing (Matilda or otherwise) off without very solid guarantees, but if I was in my twenties, I'd be off to Oz, no question. Hindsight would release me from my youthful obsession with aviation; I'd do anything else, purely for the lifestyle outside of work.

Anyone with kids who cares about their future should definitely get out right now. When they're adults with kids of their own, the UK will be done for.

SpringHeeledJack
13th Dec 2011, 08:54
Doussard, Talloires, Grand Bornand, La Clusaz. If I were off, that is where I would be headed. It's a wonderful part of the world & the cow bells are lovely to hear.

Yes indeed, a lovely part of the country and if you like the outdoors there's more than enough to do :ok: One had the chance to buy a good sized chalet in the Chamonix valley some years back, but decided against it as it was for me (before internet) too cut off, and now due to the mainly Anglo invasion the properties are so expensive as to make that prohibitive, property taxes not withstanding :ugh: That said, despite the internet opening up many places in unforeseen ways, wherever you lay your hat will only be home if you invest/immerse yourself into the local ways.

The sound of cow bells is so evocative, as long as they aren't too close :p



SHJ

TZ350
13th Dec 2011, 12:42
[quote] acbus1
The UK hasn't had a decent 'Government' in decades. Its getting worse, rather than better. Taxation now nothing short of a licensed criminal activity. The weather is [email protected] The 'free' health service isn't free at all and doesn't look after people's health. Its as crowded as hell. Immigration has been out of control for too long. The UK doesn't make things any more; it shuffles financial deals between computers, operates service industries and 49% of the 'economy' is now absorbed by 'Government'. You don't need a crystal ball to forsee the future. [quote]

:D:D As one who was born there many moons ago ( and loathes the occasions when I must visit.......) you have concisely summed up the " State of the Nation ".

A better example of the inmates running the asylum would be impossible to find.

Capetonian
13th Dec 2011, 12:59
My comments would be precisely the same as TZ350's.

That said, such complaints are not unique to the UK.

Cacophonix
13th Dec 2011, 13:14
Take a trip to one of the many British “enclaves” within France, Spain or Portugal and talk to the ex- pats. Many favour the weather and speak favourably of their new homes but also listen to the complaints and the sense of palpable loss that many feel about their separation from Blighty and decide whether you would like to be part of the solution here in the UK or talking about the problems while reading the Telegraph over there (wherever that might be)?

Personally whenever I start feeling grumpy about the many difficult aspects of life in the UK I fly across the channel for the day and coast back in over the cliffs at Dover towards the end of the day. Somehow the “warme gevoel” that simple trip and sight gives me makes me realise how much I still love this difficult island that I have made my permanent home.

Caco

stuckgear
13th Dec 2011, 13:30
decide whether you would like to be part of the solution here in the UK or talking about the problems while reading the Telegraph over there


So, the Telegraph is now the big bad newspaper not the daily mail ?

Unfortunately, we only get one life and some would rather spend that one life with a better quality of life rather than stuck in some cardboard walled shoebox of new build, being taxed into oblivion, petrifiied that not only may you not have a job next week but able to afford getting to it. Meanwhile, having any semblance of a social life dictates going to a themed pub, which is an identical chain found in any high street across the UK, paying for overpriced shite food and drink while avoiding getting your head caved in by any number of drunken turds who will invariably get support for their 'problems'.

Screw the 'greater good' or social consciousness. it's done nothing but screw the hard working to the wall to allow disconnected politicians to throw money down the toilet in search of a minority 'point' here or there.

That 'greater good' concept does nothing but keep the population in slavery to politicians serving failed ideologies; you can keep it, i'd rather my children grow up with a good education, be bi-lingual and with a quality of life thanks.

Cacophonix
13th Dec 2011, 13:37
So, the Telegraph is now the big bad newspaper not the daily mail ?



Ah the old Tory Graph is a much better newspaper than the Daily Heil but it seems to be the preferred read of disconsolate ex pats! ;)

Caco

OFSO
13th Dec 2011, 17:57
Take a trip to one of the many British “enclaves” within France, Spain or Portugal and talk to the ex- pats.

And there you have it in a nutshell. Substitute the word "Germans" for British and the situation is just the same. I have had German acquaintances here with only German friends, who spend all their time telling me how superior Germany is to Spain in the matter of health, education, welfare etc etc ad. inf. But they still live here most of the year (although wouldn't dream of paying road tax or income tax in Spain, and bring all their food down from Germany, in their cars. And wine. To Spain ! OSTRES !!!)

Why on earth would anyone move to one of the countries mentioned above and go to an enclave of their own nationality. WHY ?

The object is to enjoy the local culture, not sit around with a load of moaning compatriots saying how awful France, Spain or Portugal is. Yet I know British and Germans who only have satellite TVs, can't even receive local TV programs (all digital now).

Can't speak the local language, don't even try, react with amazement when Mrs OFSO serves them some delicacy for dinner bought at the local supermarket (cries of "where on earth did you find that ?" as if we were living on the moon), never read the local papers.....grrrr. Their philosophy of life is: ISN'T EVERYTHING PERFECTLY AWFUL HERE ! NOT LIKE WE ARE USED TO AT HOME...

First rule of being an expat is INTEGRATE with your new country. If you can't and don't like it, don't moan: P*SS OFF BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM.

OFSO: 25 years in Germany and now 18 years in Catalunia, and enjoyed both immensely.

OFSO
13th Dec 2011, 18:18
Lest one think I'm too negative (have heard that mentioned !)

I have friends in London, he's a builder, she's a teacher. They both speak French (amazing isn't it). Decided to buy a plot of land in France, picked a village, got hold of a builder who - when he recovered from being told exactly and precisely in his own language what these foreigners wanted, - spat on the floor, rubbed his hairy red hands together, and said words to the equivalent of "it'll be ready exactly on this date next year at the price we agreed". And it was. Said friends are now happy as the proverbial pig in manure in their new house.

I have other friends in the South of France. Found out the best way to break the ice was driving their car into the ditch one Saturday night, the mayor on his way to plough a field pulled them out with his tractor on Sunday morning. Next weekend at the inn it wasn't "those toffy-nosed English who think they can speak French" but "those great English who did just what most of us idiots have done when leaving this place on a Saturday night, and can curse and swear in our language too !"

Also porcus contenus.

TZ350
13th Dec 2011, 20:52
[quote] stuckgear

So, the Telegraph is now the big bad newspaper not the daily mail ?

Unfortunately, we only get one life and some would rather spend that one life with a better quality of life rather than stuck in some cardboard walled shoebox of new build, being taxed into oblivion, petrifiied that not only may you not have a job next week but able to afford getting to it. Meanwhile, having any semblance of a social life dictates going to a themed pub, which is an identical chain found in any high street across the UK, paying for overpriced shite food and drink while avoiding getting your head caved in by any number of drunken turds who will invariably get support for their 'problems'.

Screw the 'greater good' or social consciousness. it's done nothing but screw the hard working to the wall to allow disconnected politicians to throw money down the toilet in search of a minority 'point' here or there.

That 'greater good' concept does nothing but keep the population in slavery to politicians serving failed ideologies; you can keep it, i'd rather my children grow up with a good education, be bi-lingual and with a quality of life thanks.
[quote]

:D:D You omitted one insidious aspect of "living" in the Islamic Republic of UK.... with the current " freedom of speech " :yuk: laws as they stand , it is all too easy to acquire a " criminal record " , just for speaking ones mind, thus inhibiting ones ability to travel to some countries. The same also applies if one is in the unfortunate predicament of having to defend one's person or property against threat/attack by the scum ( indigenous and imports ) which have totally permeated the society, the crims have more rights than you !! :mad::mad:

http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=6898048) http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/reply_small.gif (http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6898048&noquote=1)

racedo
13th Dec 2011, 22:55
My plan is to move in next 5 years with kids not yet in teens and enjoy life....in France.

Have no wish or desire to be stuck in an exPat ghetto and fully intend enjoying life to the full.

Area around Narbonne / Carcasonne / to Spanish border seems pleasing and as for Property taxes..............well a couple of thousand a year now pee's me off when I get zilch for what I pay for and weather is crap.

G-CPTN
13th Dec 2011, 23:48
One of the 'problems' with moving overseas with children is their education (and any subsequent qualifications). - one of the reasons why I returned to the UK.

You owe it to your youngsters that they can choose whether to be permanently exiled in your new location or, if you are only abroad for a fixed period, they can achieve higher education or employment when you return.

Denmark has (or at least had in the 1980s) an education system without examinations, based on assessment by the teacher, so when the pupils faced leaving they were accompanied by a written CV (in Danish of course) and no certified qualifications. Whilst this worked within Scandinavia, I considered it risky for the UK.

In addition, the children had fully integrated into Danish 'society' and, although fluent in Danish they lacked English, which presented difficulties in spelling when we did return to England.

wiggy
14th Dec 2011, 08:08
Good post.

they lacked English, which presented difficulties in spelling when we did return to England

Not at all uncommon. Ex-pat children end up being drilled in the spelling and grammar of the local tongue at school, may well speak their native language at home but may not get any formal education in their native spelling and grammar. If the parents don't take up the slack you'll hear little Janet or John using the most bizarre sentences and phrases (to the English ear), such as "the car yellow" :uhoh:

acbus1
14th Dec 2011, 09:17
One of the 'problems' with moving overseas with children is their education (and any subsequent qualifications).

The ideal is to emigrate and not return. You're thereby doing your kids two huge favours and nullifying any education concerns.

The choice of country is clearly relevant. Oz (possibly New Zealand) would be my choice; there surely aren't any concerns with regards to those countries? I'd be hesitant to emigrate to anywhere too 'specialised' (for want of a better word); that could be a future obstacle to moving on when they become adults.

Do you think the UK State education system is woth staying put for? Feedback from teacher friends and my own observation is of an inexorable decline in standards.

As I said earlier, the UK has had it. Emigration is a no-brainer, if you're young enough.

Capetonian
14th Dec 2011, 09:31
As I said earlier, the UK has had it. Emigration is a no-brainer, if you're young enough.
It then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The smart younger people with potential leave the country and the vacuum is filled by others less desirable.

The government, rather than sitting back and watching this happen, should take steps to make the UK a better environment for native Brits to stay and grow.

sitigeltfel
14th Dec 2011, 09:40
Emigration is a no-brainer, if you're young enough.
There are two age categories who will do this. The young and ambitious, and those like myself, older and wealthier. The rest will have to stick it out and hopefully vote for someone who will have the guts to repair the damage.

BombayDuck
14th Dec 2011, 10:24
This thread... it makes me wonder exactly which country I'm living in. Apparently, this splendid country full of helpful people and smiling strangers and (mostly) well-behaved youngsters is not the Britain which you all have been escaping from.

Curious.

Keef
14th Dec 2011, 10:41
I have to say, I don't recognise the Britain caricatured in some posts here.

Certainly, there are "rough" areas in some towns, but there are also delightful areas. That applies in most countries I've visited.

In three years in Germany, in a very nice house and doing all we could to be good neighbours, we were to all but one local family "die verdammten Engländer". The fact that we were both fluent in German cut no ice. We just happened to be in the "wrong" neighbourhood.

We moved a couple of years ago to our present rural idyll, and were immediately made very welcome by everyone around. It parallels LGS6753's experience - perhaps we're both in Suffolk. We certainly wouldn't want to up sticks to another paradise-on-earth, although holiday visits are delightful.

Yes, the economy's in a mess and the Guvmint is in a flat spin, but that's much the same as the rest of Europe (some just hide it better than others). NZ sounds nice, but it's 12,000 miles from the children and grandchildren, so not going there.

One observation I would make: some of it's down to what you make of it. The folks we bought this house from said the neighbourhood was very "reserved". We found it the exact opposite. If you stay indoors and don't talk to anyone, it does seem reserved.

Cacophonix
14th Dec 2011, 11:02
NZ sounds nice, but it's 12,000 miles from the children and grandchildren


And, while very pretty, is utterly boring! ;)

There is no place like home.

Let one old ex pat comment in poetry... even if it isn't always spring.


Caco


OH, to be in England now that April ’s there
And whoever wakes in England sees, some morning, unaware,
That the lowest boughs and the brushwood sheaf
Round the elm-tree bole are in tiny leaf,
While the chaffinch sings on the orchard bough
In England—now!

II
And after April, when Mary follows
And the white-throat builds, and all the swallows!
Hark, where my blossom’d pear-tree in the hedge
Leans to the field and scatters on the clover
Blossoms and dewdrops—at the bent spray’s edge—
That ’s the wise thrush: he sings each song twice over
Lest you should think he never could re-capture
The first fine careless rapture!
And, though the fields look rough with hoary dew,
All will be gay when noontide wakes anew
The buttercups, the little children’s dower,
Far brighter than this gaudy melon-flower!

(Robert Browning)

Storminnorm
14th Dec 2011, 11:04
Used to spend a lot of time in Holland. (The Memsahib being a Cloggy.)
Always enjoyed being there with Ma in Law in her BIG house.
But since she died a few years ago things have changed quite a lot and
not for the better. Now prefer to lounge about in good old Blighty.
Ain't been there for years now.

That Browning chap was quite a good wordsmith I think.

stuckgear
14th Dec 2011, 11:46
The folks we bought this house from said the neighbourhood was very "reserved". We found it the exact opposite.


Discovered the local swinging scene eh Keef ? ;)

stuckgear
14th Dec 2011, 12:02
This thread... it makes me wonder exactly which country I'm living in. Apparently, this splendid country full of helpful people and smiling strangers and (mostly) well-behaved youngsters is not the Britain which you all have been escaping from.

Curious.


Bombay, don't get me wrong, some parts of England are close to being absolutely lovely. When one pops out the clouds, and views the landscape from above it is an enticing island. The people are, on the whole, friendly and accepting with a culture base that can determine what is good behaviour and what is unacceptable. What for me is the problem is the descent the country has develoved to through years of administrative mis-management. You only need to scratch the surface to see it. Though I applaud you and thank you greatly for seeing the good in the country. Are you by any chance Hindi ?

The Hindu culture is a culture of love, respect, honoring others and humbling one's own ego so that the inner nature, which is naturally pure and modest, will shine forth.


It is the failures of administration on the socio-economic scale that have created the problems no only for the current, but for the future.

crippen
14th Dec 2011, 12:04
see location.:cool:

SpringHeeledJack
14th Dec 2011, 13:06
The UK is, in many ways in a right old mess, especially the larger cities and their suburbs, but as has been counter-argued there are so many lovely places with good people, as in times before. What seems to have happened, in general, is that the indiginous :p:hmm: population has been somehow divided and disrobed of seemingly any responsibility, the 'newcomers' have carried on, in general, their previous ways almost like a country within a country, rather than integrating as most immigrant groups seem to in the USA, where they become Americans, albeit Italian American, Indian A, Irish A, African A etc etc.

Like many others here, I've had the good fortune to live elsewhere over the years and it's funny how those who stay (wherever) do so because they wanted to move 'there' and go native and not "I want sunny weather" or some such. Visits are great, especially if they don't go over the 3 week honeymoon period, but living elsewhere is never the nirvana we seek unless the inner commitment is there.



SHJ

TZ350
14th Dec 2011, 14:38
You couldn't make this up.............:yuk:

Hamleys toy store removes "sexist" signs after gender stereotype criticism - mirror.co.uk (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/12/14/hamleys-toy-store-removes-sexist-signs-after-gender-stereotype-criticism-115875-23634658/)

Truly, some people are alive, only because it's illegal to kill them.............:mad:

SpringHeeledJack
14th Dec 2011, 14:45
Social engineering and doing an excellent 'job' by all accounts. One is currently studying for a masters degree in DailyMailology ;) getting all the people at each others throats with nonsense whilst 'round the back of the bike sheds' all sorts of important things are going on..... :yuk::*



SHJ

OFSO
14th Dec 2011, 14:46
Germany must be the only country I've lived in where cocktail parties end with all the wives in the middle of the room, men are blindfolded, you pick one womnan at random and get to take home their husband's Porsche, Mercedes, BMW or Audi keys (and car)...........

vulcanised
14th Dec 2011, 15:32
Meamwhile, I see certain elements in the meeja are talking up a need for the UK to go to war against Iran.

Storminnorm
14th Dec 2011, 15:41
Let them go. I'll stay here and mind the shop.OK??

(Wanna buy some petrol coupons anyone ???)

stuckgear
14th Dec 2011, 15:55
Meamwhile, I see certain elements in the meeja are talking up a need for the UK to go to war against Iran.


Easy resolve. Posters up in town centers across the UK 'Club Iran - Happy hour drinks 4 for a quid and a free kebab afterwards'. .... Stand back and watch the carnage. Job done.


The Iranians can keep their recovered US UAV's replicas will be of no use when we we release our secret weapon.. projectile vomiting yoofs.

I feel sorry for Tehran already.

Widger
14th Dec 2011, 15:58
Probably for the best to leave (well England) tonight and head north (Scotland?) looking at the forecast for Thursday/Friday night. France will be no better off either. They are predicting the Jet Stream to be in the order of 230kts!

acbus1
14th Dec 2011, 16:02
Hamleys: 'The world famous London toy store has scrapped pink and blue signs and replaced them with gender neutral red and white ones'.

Colour prejudice. :=

BombayDuck
14th Dec 2011, 17:03
You only need to scratch the surface to see it. Though I applaud you and thank you greatly for seeing the good in the country.

I've lived hear for over three years now, in different locations. I've had delayed trains and cancelled buses, utter shite weather, dealt with mind-numbing bureaucracy even in private companies... and it's not that big a deal for me. There are areas in London I wouldn't go into at late hours in the night, of course. But I can bet it's the same everywhere.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Bombay too. I can slip into the traffic and crowds and dust just as easily. Maybe I've just a higher level of tolerance from where I come.

Are you by any chance Hindi ?

That would be like asking me if I'm English. :) Hindi is the language, I presume you meant Hindu. My mother is, and raised me that way but I'm an atheist (blame my father's side for that :)).

If you meant what language I speak as my native tongue, that would be Marathi, not Hindi.

The Hindu culture is a culture of love, respect, honoring others and humbling one's own ego so that the inner nature, which is naturally pure and modest, will shine forth.

No idea where you got that from, mate, but the "Hindu culture" has its share of a*seholes too :} But seriously, I like some bits about the culture (emphasis on bonds within the family) and dislike some (the idea that there is a hierarchy to everything from casts to workplaces).

It is the failures of administration on the socio-economic scale that have created the problems no only for the current, but for the future.

Yes, but I'm always an optimist; maybe because I've seen and lived through worse?

stuckgear
14th Dec 2011, 17:06
BD,

Cheers for the feedback / corrections. much appreciated. :ok:

OFSO
14th Dec 2011, 18:55
One of the 'problems' with moving overseas with children is their education

Was discussing that with our godchildren and their parents last week. They are English but well integrated into Catalan society. School language is Catalan, option is either French or English. Since they all speak English at home and to friends here, parents selected French as second language. Then discussion turned to third language to learn, and after a few suggestions we agreed on....Chinese, as most useful upcoming language.

Schools here push the children really hard. Rule is kids start school when they are "dry", lets say at about one year of age. Judging by our godkinder, they love it and (wait for it) they dread school holidays...... how things have changed from my day growing up in Leicestershire.

racedo
14th Dec 2011, 18:59
One of the 'problems' with moving overseas with children is their education (and any subsequent qualifications). - one of the reasons why I returned to the UK.

Bearing in mind the crap about exam boards and the cheating going on in UK (this just teachers and exam boards) I don't see the qualifications issue as a problem.

Kids already bilingual just not in French / Spanish yet but given their willingness to learn stuff I am reasonably content that will continue.
Well lets be honest it will, SWMBO and I will ensure they will receive an education and it just doesn't mean passing exams (which is part of the hoopds to jump through) it means learning.

I want my kids to go out as teenagers where I don't have to worry that some F***** up little scroat with an "issue" carrying a knife decides he wants to be a big man in using it.

Fareastdriver
14th Dec 2011, 19:10
I was sipping a beer in the foyer of the Ramadan hotel in Beijing a few years ago. I noticed a Western couple looking down in the dumps and almost in tears. I enquired as to what the problem was as I was fairly familiar with most difficulties in China.

They had planned this trip for years. It was not a standard couriered tour; they were travelling for about three months on their own bat. To this end they had spent over a year learning Chinese. When they arrived in Beijing they found that they had spent all this time learning,............ Cantonese.

Not much use when 800,000,000 speak Mandarin.

Lemain
14th Dec 2011, 19:26
Having spent 350/365 days out of the UK for the last seven years I decided to return because:

a) Close to family
b) Right of abode, born in UK
c) NHS
d) Language. I'm multilingual but Mrs L is not a linguist -- NOT GOOD.
e) Laws and customs at least as fair if not fairer than elsewhere
f) Understand laws, tax, etc. albeit as a layman
g) Few really nasty indigenous diseases
h) Low probability of being assaulted

Many of the good friends I made during our absence are up the creek with half a paddle. Some cannot afford to return and their friends and family ties have evaporated at the threat of long-term residence with them.

Language is vital. Life is intolerable if you can't socialise as well as express needs and go shopping. When things go pear-shaped you're always 'foreign'.

OFSO
14th Dec 2011, 19:30
Fareastdriver, reminds me of someone I met in New York, he had arrived only speaking Japanese, decided to learn English from TV, didn't realise for a month he was watching a Russian-language TV channel. (I met him in a Polish bar in New York and he was the only one who spoke English in there).

We still get idiots arriving here having learned a few words of what they call "Spanish" and we call "Castillian" who wonder why the Catalans refer to them as, well, ignorant.

G-CPTN
14th Dec 2011, 20:08
My children were considered 'native' within two years as they had learned the local language at school and through playing with friends. They even (not surprisingly) spoke with the local dialect.

OFSO
15th Dec 2011, 11:23
Language is vital. Life is intolerable if you can't socialise as well as express needs and go shopping. When things go pear-shaped you're always 'foreign'.

Very true ! When my wife goes to her local Town Hall* she never knows whether to speak Yoruba, Hausa, Igbo, Somali, Maay or Benaadir. She does indeed say she feels very foreign and out-of-place there.

*In Islington.

TZ350
15th Dec 2011, 13:01
[quote] OFSO

Language is vital. Life is intolerable if you can't socialise as well as express needs and go shopping. When things go pear-shaped you're always 'foreign'.

Very true ! When my wife goes to her local Town Hall* she never knows whether to speak Yoruba, Hausa, Igbo, Somali, Maay or Benaadir. She does indeed say she feels very foreign and out-of-place there.

*In Islington. [quote]

:D:D

Octopussy2
15th Dec 2011, 14:20
I'd be really, really upset if I thought my native English-speaking daughter, who is striving to integrate into a new, French-speaking school and community here, were to face that sort of bigotry when her classmates' parents hear her speaking her native language to her family.

We moved from London a few months ago, from a community that included Polish, Hindi, Somali, and Afrikaans-native speakers; London has been rich in diverse cultures and languages for centuries and that is one of the factors that make it one of the world's great and most interesting capitals.