PDA

View Full Version : Man has no legs after shark attack..beach was closed..what part do they not get


SOPS
28th Sep 2011, 15:22
Swimmer loses legs in South African shark attack (http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_717682.html)

How much warning do you need?

Lon More
28th Sep 2011, 15:26
what part do they not get His legs? :\

Capetonian
28th Sep 2011, 15:29
Have just been listening to these reports on the radio. He is a 42 year old Brit who lives in Plumstead (a suburb of CPT and not far from the beach where the attack took place). Apparently he swims almost daily at the beach and should have known better.

I know the beach well. It is long with a slight curve and the shark warning flags can be seen from anywhere on it. The shark spotter on the mountain saw him in the water, and contacted the observer on the beach, who ran to the end where the man was swimming, but too late. Sad, but you cannot protect idiots against their own stupidity.

Shark 1 - man 0. He's lucky in that he only lost his lower leg (according to what I heard, but the newpaper report indicates worse) and not his life. When will people realise that there is danger when we invade the natural habitat of wildlife.

It has been made worse by 'chumming' and caged shark spotting, but that's another story.

11Fan
28th Sep 2011, 15:56
I'd suggest he could sue but he doesn't have a......

.. a leg......

uh...

to stand......

Nope..Can't do it....

Just too soon for puns.

skwinty
28th Sep 2011, 15:59
That must be about the third shark attack in Fish Hoek within the last, say, 10 years.

Now Fish Hoek was my home from 1956 until 1973 and False Bay has always been the home of the great white due to Seal Island.

The shark attacks never happened then because roles were reversed in those days.

Great whites, we used to call them blue pointers, were hunted on a regular basis with steel trace and a 25 liter drum. Sharks feared humans back then.

Now the great whites are a protected species, it's payback time.:E

Solid Rust Twotter
28th Sep 2011, 16:26
Attack? Hardly. He's still alive.

Lyman
28th Sep 2011, 16:55
Payback, eh?

Man Leg Soup?

11Fan
28th Sep 2011, 17:04
On the up side, with Halloween coming up, all he needs is an outfit and a parrot.


Squack, pieces of eight, pieces of eight.....

Checkboard
28th Sep 2011, 17:18
Apparently he swims almost daily at the beach and should have known better.
Daily swimmer, eh? Probably pretty fit, then ... not enough for the Olympics, of course .... although now, perhaps ... ;)

skwinty
28th Sep 2011, 17:58
Man leg soup.:ok:

Here are some pics of Fish Hoek and the local wild life.


http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af92/skwinty/shark-1.jpg

http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af92/skwinty/25_10_2008-2.jpg

Cacophonix
28th Sep 2011, 18:50
There was a fatal attack on a surfer near Gordon's Bay a couple of weeks ago. The waters in and around False Bay are certainly the shark's hunting ground these days.

What with chumming and the protection of an apex predator coupled with over fishing in the bay, one suspects that we will see more of these attacks.

Perhaps one solution to the problem might be to feed a portion of the foul braying penguins at Boulders beach to the sharks on a regular basis.

Caco

Capetonian
28th Sep 2011, 18:57
Perhaps one solution to the problem might be to feed a portion of the foul braying politicans in Parliament to the sharks on a regular basis. Mind you sharks don't eat their own kind!

Beautiful pictures of Fish Hoek Beach - makes me homesick. Used to stay in a flat on the traffic circle where Main Road becomes Simonstown Road, just below where that first photo was taken.

Cacophonix
28th Sep 2011, 18:59
Do you remember the Green Parrot tearoom Capetonian?

Caco

bugg smasher
28th Sep 2011, 19:18
Latest research from Dalhousie University Census of Marine Life project indicates there may be fewer than 3500 great white sharks in the planet's oceans. If proven correct over the next few years, that would make them highly endangered.

Hope you folks are taking care of them in your part of the world.

gingernut
28th Sep 2011, 19:54
As a (very poor) surfer, 'can actually understand the part he got:)

'tis all about balancing risk, the big picture is that daily swimming in the bay is probably better for your health than sloathing on the couch watching "the x-factor"-obviously he got it wrong on that day.

I hope he makes a good recovery, I'll hazard a guess, even without his lower limbs, he's far healthier than Joe Average.

If you don't believe me, take a trip to Headley Court.

11Fan
28th Sep 2011, 19:56
Mind you sharks don't eat their own kind!

Professional Courtesy.

tony draper
28th Sep 2011, 20:11
Some teeth of this critter,Carcharadon have been found that seem surpizingly fresh for a beast supposedly extinct,a hundred foot long Great White would tend to give one pause. :ooh:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a194/Deaddogbay/Carcharodon_megalodon.jpg
:uhoh:

Tankertrashnav
28th Sep 2011, 20:16
'tis all about balancing risk, the big picture is that daily swimming in the bay is probably better for your health than sloathing on the couch watching "the x-factor"-obviously he got it wrong on that day.



The trouble with that sort of argument is that it presents two choices as though they were the only options. There are hundreds of other ways of keeping fit other than swimming in shark-infested waters. The guys at Headley Court mainly had no choice (after they enlisted, of course) but matey at False Bay did. I reckon he really belongs over on the Darwin thread.

Cacophonix
28th Sep 2011, 20:17
I hope he makes a good recovery, I'll hazard a guess, even without his lower limbs, he's far healthier than Joe Average.

Amen to that!

I studied in Cape Town with a guy who had lost a leg to a shark on the Atlantic (yes I know both sides are technically the Atlantic) side of the peninsular. He continued his love of the sea by body boarding and became a top notch diver as well.

That area where this most recent attack occurred has seen two relatively recent fatalities, one a cussed old lady who had swum out from the rocks every day for over thirty years. One day she was warned by the spotters not to go out but she did and was taken. The other was a 37 year old tourist who was taken in front of horrified beach goers including his wife. There were no shark warnings in the latter case.

Caco

The remarkable proliferation of these sharks around Fish Hoek, where the Atlantic first touches the Indian Ocean on the eastern side of Cape Town known as False Bay, has also brought an influx of wildlife photographers and film crews.

Their methods, according to locals, are also making these sharks associate humans with food. With cameras rolling, many film crews tow dead seals behind their boats in the hope that a Great White will leap out of the water and attack.

Even Peter Benchley - whose book inspired Jaws the movie, sealing the reputation of the killer Great White - campaigned in the decade before his death to save sharks, more than 100 million of which are killed by humans each year for soup and as a by-product of industrial netting.

So big is the threat to their future - and they are a vital part of the ocean's eco-system - that many species, including the Great White, have been designated as endangered.


Read more: News | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1243355/As-swimmer-eaten-alive-Great-White-chilling-evidence-humans-blame-Have-turned-)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/01/14/article-0-0624B5110000044D-13_468x579.jpg

Cacophonix
28th Sep 2011, 20:30
I certainly wouldn't like to be eaten by a shark... even though they are magnificent creatures.

http://www.cmej.org.za/index.php/cmej/article/viewFile/408/262

Caco

con-pilot
28th Sep 2011, 21:31
If all would just follow my theory, we wouldn't have this sort of problem. It is very simple really.

I have promised the sharks that I will not swim in their ocean, if they don't swim in my swimming pool.

It's worked great so far. :ok:

tony draper
28th Sep 2011, 21:45
Could be worse, they could rape yer then eat you.:uhoh:

bugg smasher
28th Sep 2011, 21:54
Well, Tony, that's what some dolphins have tried, not the eating part...

Amorous dolphin targeting swimmers - CNN (http://articles.cnn.com/2002-06-04/world/uk.dolphin_1_ric-o-barry-dolphin-swimmers?_s=PM:WORLD)

gingernut
28th Sep 2011, 21:58
The trouble with that sort of argument is that it presents two choices as though they were the only options.

Not sure that it's that simple. I'm not sure that the choices are always that absolute.

He probably didn't go for his morning swim with the thought that he would be nearly eaten alive, (and if he did, it's likely that he would have stayed in bed), but is he any different from the bloke cycling to work in a congested zone, the snow driver going to work when the radio say's stay at home, or the PPL pilot going solo with the knowledge that single engined aircraft flying is more riskier than multi engined flying?

Reckon myself, taking no risk is risky.

visibility3miles
28th Sep 2011, 21:58
Various thoughts:

1)
Surfers Rescue Injured Great White Shark

...With the shark fighting for its life, a pack of surfers took a fish hook from its mouth, then dragged it back into the Pacific Ocean...
Surfers Rescue Injured Great White Shark | ThePostGame (http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201109/surfers-save-injured-great-white-shark)

2) A day or two after I visited California, a picture like this was front page news. They found the surfer about a month later.
(Apparently when you paddle your surfboard out to sea, you look very much like a seal or sea otter from underneath.
I've read that sharks often spit people out after the first bite because there isn't enough fat on their bones to support an active life style.)
http://www.boardistan.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/shark-0112.jpg

3) I've read that when abalone were fished out in California's coastal waters, the sea otter then great white shark populations dropped drastically. Now, after successful limits on the abalone harvest, the cute sea otters are back, along with their carnivorous friends.

4) Jaws -- the 30 second bunny version of the movie from the original website:
[skip the ads]
Jaws in 30 Seconds (and re-enacted by Bunnies) | Flash Videos (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/jaws)
"You're gonna to need a bigger boat."
"I used to hate the water."
"I can't imagine why."

The YooTub version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws5wfAYoSPI

tony draper
28th Sep 2011, 22:09
Always been my philosophy ever since I swam out and examined some anti shark netting in Venezuala, if one wanted a swim one should find the nearest swimming pool and if one wants to venture out to sea one does so with at least 3000 tons of steel and a good honest Doxford engine under one's arse,
One also decided on that occasion never to venture ashore in such places wearing only flip flops when a scorpion about a foot long ran over one's bare toes.
Dangerous places these furrin parts,best stick to Skegness.
:uhoh:

bugg smasher
28th Sep 2011, 22:25
shark attack in air!!! Amazing!!! - YouTube

rh200
29th Sep 2011, 00:35
I have promised the sharks that I will not swim in their ocean, if they don't swim in my swimming pool.

Its a good idea, doesn't work for all predators though.

Water aerobics class canceled after crocodile found in Darwin pool | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/national/water-aerobics-class-canceled-after-crocodile-found-in-darwin-pool/story-e6frfkvr-1225856001153)

What she fails to say is it's the first time she's had to cancel a water aerobics class due to a crocodile of a "reptilian" kind.:E

sisemen
29th Sep 2011, 01:00
They're getting a bit frisky around Western Australia as well. This one is from the beginning of this month (Sep 2011) and it would appear that the number of attacks is increasing - most of them fatal.

I tried to get the ex-wife to take up early morning swimming but no luck unfortunately.


Shark attack victim's mum asks: Did he suffer?


Her 21-year-old bodyboarding son was bitten in half and instantly killed by a suspected great white shark at the West Australian surf break on Sunday.

LowNSlow
29th Sep 2011, 02:47
skwinty, that second pic looks more dolphin/porpoise than man eater?

Krystal n chips
29th Sep 2011, 05:40
Re the photo's in post 10.....is the beach the equivalent of a McJunk drive thru for sharks then ?......

JEM60
29th Sep 2011, 07:12
My daughter will be cage diving, hopefully with Great Whites, for New Year. I have just texted her and told her to make sure it's a very strong cage!!!!.

Solid Rust Twotter
29th Sep 2011, 07:19
Whites are pretty bright so anything like the incident described could more than likely be a case of mistaken identity, ie, the victim wasn't a seal and got spat out. Unfortunately the limbs carry major blood vessels so the kind of injury described leads to bleeding out in a short while. The chumming of sharks for tourists and desensitization of them to humans as a result is another factor.

The only really aggressive sharks one has encountered were tigers and Zambezis (bull sharks in Oz/USA). Whites are clever enough to know who's boss and will give you the hairy eyeball, but don't generally have anything to prove. Tigers are just plain nasty and Zambis are opportunists.

Tower Ranger
29th Sep 2011, 07:29
As the beach was officially closed legally he won`t have a leg to stand on.

Flying Lawyer
29th Sep 2011, 07:38
It's a pleasant beach (particularly at the usually quieter Clovelly end where he was swimming) with a very efficient shark spotter service from the surrounding hills. I feel sorry for him but, what a very stupid thing to do.
A shark spotter who helped drag him from the water is quoted as saying: "He was very interested in sharks and respected them, but never took any notice of our warnings. We warned him often that he was taking a risk, but he always said 'If a shark takes me, then blame me, not the shark'."

Report here: sa news | 'Blame me, not the shark' (http://news.iafrica.com/sa/754963.html)

It includes an amateur video showing emergency services at the scene and the shark in the water.
It also illustrates the excellent view the shark spotting team have from the surrounding hills.

0pHj8_eDVcA

Cacophonix
29th Sep 2011, 07:44
There is a shark siren on the beach but (surprise, surprise) there was a major power cut on that part of the peninsular at the time. Question is, did the siren sound (i.e. was it battery powered)?

I know this fellow might have seen the black flag but a silent siren would also be significant!

Caco

tony draper
29th Sep 2011, 07:57
I think Sharks use those cage divers as a teaching aid,they bring the younsters along and say "Look this is food"
:uhoh:

BDiONU
29th Sep 2011, 07:59
Just too soon for puns.
And that was a bit lame.

Cacophonix
29th Sep 2011, 08:00
Who is going to foot the bill I wonder?

Caco

BDiONU
29th Sep 2011, 08:00
I know this fellow might have seen the black flag but a silent siren would also be significant!
When asked if he knew what the flags meant he replied: "I'm stumped".

Cacophonix
29th Sep 2011, 08:02
Shtop it now! ;)

Exascot
29th Sep 2011, 09:19
Apparently the shark has now legged it.

sisemen
29th Sep 2011, 10:01
Warnings are there for a reason. He should have been told to toe the line.

At least it will be cheaper for him now to get legless.

MagnusP
29th Sep 2011, 10:07
And the shark is proven to be totally 'armless.

sisemen
29th Sep 2011, 11:03
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c92/allan907/shark.jpg

Tankertrashnav
29th Sep 2011, 11:44
best stick to Skegness.

Not much chance of a shark attack there Drapes. On the few occasions I've been there there was no sign of the sea - just a gently sloping beach stretching to the horizon. Rumour has it that the tide comes in from time to time, but never witnessed that myself. Only sharks were the ones selling tat in the "gift shops".

radeng
29th Sep 2011, 12:21
But there is Bateman's.

er340790
29th Sep 2011, 14:25
To lose one leg is unfortunate...

To lose two appears careless.


H C D

skwinty
29th Sep 2011, 16:18
Apparently this gentleman is well known to the shark spotters. He has ignored their warnings on a few occasions.

The spotters even knew where he hid his car keys when he went swimming. His attitude was if a shark were to take him, then it would be his fault and not the sharks.

The old lady who was devoured by a shark some time ago had the same attitude.
All that was found of her was her bathing cap.

Capetonian
29th Sep 2011, 16:25
His attitude was if a shark were to take him, then it would be his fault and not the sharks.

The problem with that attitude is that unless the shark ate him or dragged him to the bottom of the sea, there is a cost and a massive use (waste?) of resources. Not to mention the grief and distress caused to his family and friends. It's utterly selfish and whilst it might sound callous after he's lost a limb and a half, I hope he is made to pay the full costs of the airlift, medical care, and associated expenses.

British shark attack victim saved by wetsuit tourniquet - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/8796551/British-shark-attack-victim-saved-by-wetsuit-tourniquet.html)

skwinty
29th Sep 2011, 16:46
Here is an interesting link with all the pictures and videos.
No dolphins here.:E

Fish Hoek ~ your comprehensive Guide : Sharks (http://www.fishhoek.com/sharks.htmL)

11Fan
30th Sep 2011, 00:35
Questionable Ad Campaign.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/blogpost/201109/Images/peta.jpg?uuid=9PCmVOqnEeCKBcEOwQfcZg

Mother Of Shark Attack Victim Says PETA Campaign Is 'Over The Top' | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/29/mother-shark-attack-victim-says-peta-campaign-is-over-top/?test=latestnews)

visibility3miles
30th Sep 2011, 06:52
I remember hearing that if you bang or punch them in the nose with your fist, you'll somehow scare them into going away.

Looking at these pictures and videos makes that seem like the silliest advice ever.

Okay, maybe, just maybe, if they're cruising by to size you up, but not if they're about to strike.

skwinty
30th Sep 2011, 06:58
Watch Mike Rutzen play with great whites.

Michael Rutzen. Sharkman hitches ride on great white shark. - YouTube (http://youtu.be/C6trY0RdVEU)

Solid Rust Twotter
30th Sep 2011, 07:11
As a kid one used to dive and spearfish off that beach. The wreck of the Clanwilliam is along the far side just before the headland and used to be a favourite site. Last I was there only the boilers were visible at low tide but I don't see any sign of them now.

Anyhow, we saw a couple of sharks about, the odd taxman who would try to nick your fish but nothing really aggressive. I think that's something that's been happening lately as a result of tourist operators chumming for them and allowing them to get used to people during cage dives.

[http://www.fishhoek.com/images/newbg05asharkpage.gif

Rollingthunder
30th Sep 2011, 07:19
I remember hearing that if you bang or punch them in the nose with your fist, you'll somehow scare them into going away.

No, you have to poke them hard in the eye or preferably eyes.

Problem is they come up behind and then it's a bit too late.

skwinty
30th Sep 2011, 07:21
I am not to sure that the chumming and cage diving plays a large part in this equation as chumming has been practiced for many many years with no apparent shark attacks.

I think it has more to do with the increasing population of great whites and the increasing number of people entering the sea.

I don't think the sharks are looking for humans to attack, merely hunting for fish when seals are scarce and some human happens to be in the sharks hunting area.

The shark goes in for a taste and spits out the remains as the shark does not enjoy long pork.:E

Rollingthunder
30th Sep 2011, 07:33
or neoprene...............

Solid Rust Twotter
30th Sep 2011, 07:57
Skwinty

Agree with most of what you say but chumming and then putting people in the water with the animal is where the problem lies. Chumming to catch them is another matter entirely and doesn't associate people with food in their minds, as there is no one in the water if you're fishing for them. The recent practice of chumming to lure them closer for cage divers to see is where the problem lies. You don't taste of fish or seal and will more than likely be spat out (not referring to the incident as an attack - there would be nothing left of you if you were attacked), but you're still associated with food, hence the toothy enquiry.

Exascot
30th Sep 2011, 09:20
I have also heard that poking them in the eye is the best bet so you always have to swim with a pen on you. A Parker fountain pen with gold nib is the best. This is also the best defence against crocodiles by the way. With a croc the second line of defence is to stick your arm down its throat and lift the soft flap at the back and it will drown unless it lets go. Just thought I would share that one :cool:

On a serious note the guy put other people at risk having to go in to rescue him. He deserves everything he got.

Craggenmore
2nd Oct 2011, 07:27
It's a silent Government backed campaign to help stop the English emigrating..!

rh200
2nd Oct 2011, 07:50
I think the old saying " Its not the one you see that gets you" is relevant. No nose punching, no eye gouging, might work for inquisitive smaller sharks.

Cacophonix
2nd Oct 2011, 08:57
I hope he is made to pay the full costs of the airlift, medical care, and associated expenses.

While it might, in retrospect appear foolhardy, we must remember that each person has a different tolerance to risk!

Some people fly single engined aircraft over long stretches of open sea (as I have). Should such people be castigated and punished for their apparent risk taking? What about the twin engined pilot in a similar situation (i.e. over the sea), should he/she be slightly less castigated than somebody who decides to make the trip with a scheduled airline or not at all?

If we took your slightly mean spirited attitude to its logical conclusion nobody would surf, dive, mountain climb, swim in the sea, fly aerobatics or in fact do anything that entailed differing from the advice of well meaning but risk averse people. This chap was living with the joy of Cape Town. With that joy comes risks and he made a mistake. We can all learn from that.

As for paying for the medical care, well, yes he will have to pay. I can assure you that treatment in the Constantiaberg Clinic is not cheap at all!

I wish him a speedy recovery and a return to the sea. Good on him.

Caco

OFSO
2nd Oct 2011, 09:08
As a young lad growing up in Leicester our class was taken on a visit to the Metal Box Factory. Passing a hopper full of pressings being extruded from a machine, our guide observed "now don't touch those - they're hot !"

Would you like to guess how many of the class, having heard those words, reached out in passing and touched them ?

Right. Lots of "oohs" and "aahs".

Capetonian
2nd Oct 2011, 09:14
Caco I disagree with you.

This is not about his bravery or tolerance to risk, or about advice from well meaning but risk averse people, this is about his refusal to obey an instruction from the authorities not to swim at that time and place because of a known danger.

Put yourself at risk by all means with foolhardy ventures, but don't expose others to the same levels of risk because of your selfish refusal to obey an instruction.

I understand better than most people about the joy of living in Cape Town, I know that beach like the back of my hand, and I'm sorry that you think my attitude is 'mean-spirited', but I stand by my original statement.

I admire those who went to rescue him and who saved his life, and I also wish him a speedy recovery, but he is the victim of his own selfish and foolish behaviour and whilst the injuries he suffered are more than sufficient punishment (and this is not about punishment anyway), he has a debt to repay which is greater than just the cost of his treatment at Constantiaberg, which may be met by his medical aid if he has one, although they would probably be justified in refusing to pay. Why should the associated costs such as the airlift be paid out of public funds - your taxes and mine - when there are far greater needs in South Africa as we all know?

hellsbrink
2nd Oct 2011, 09:23
While it might, in retrospect appear foolhardy, we must remember that each person has a different tolerance to risk!

Some people fly single engined aircraft over long stretches of open sea (as I have). Should such people be castigated and punished for their apparent risk taking? What about the twin engined pilot in a similar situation (i.e. over the sea), should he/she be slightly less castigated than somebody who decides to make the trip with a scheduled airline or not at all?

If we took your slightly mean spirited attitude to its logical conclusion nobody would surf, dive, mountain climb, swim in the sea, fly aerobatics or in fact do anything that entailed differing from the advice of well meaning but risk averse people. This chap was living with the joy of Cape Town. With that joy comes risks and he made a mistake. We can all learn from that.

I would normally agree with you on that (scary, ain't it!) BUT, in this case, there was a clear and present danger that was known and he ignored all the warnings.

I'm sorry, but that is not "assessing any and every risk and then acting upon said assessments" but sheer ignorance to what was happening in that area. The only lesson to be learned is one he has learned the hard way. When the flags, etc, are out because there's something that might find you tasty in the water then YOU DON'T BLOODY WELL SWIM, and that is something most other people know and obey. He didn't, he thought he was above that and paid the price regarding his legs. Now he should pay the full costs of everything involved in his rescue because of his own irresponsibility and recklessness since, if anything, it might stop another prospective Darwin Award doing the same thing and endangering others in the process.

Cacophonix
2nd Oct 2011, 09:30
Capetonian

Let's agree to disagree on the major premise with agreement from me ref. your comments about the folks who saved him from the shark and the medical professionals, first aiders, paramedics, surgeons et al, who have kept him alive and saved a least one leg.

Your thinking, often echoed here in the UK, leads us down the slippery slope of the kind of people who take Health and Safety to a degree that makes any tolerance of risk unbearable and punishes anybody who moves outside the ever tightening parameters of tolerated risk and behavior.

Caco

Cacophonix
2nd Oct 2011, 09:34
An alien world...

_QQQPmni8Rs

Caco

I would normally agree with you on that (scary, ain't it!)

Heaven forfend Hells. ;)

Capetonian
2nd Oct 2011, 11:17
Caco : I take it you posted this in jest then!

Who is going to foot the bill I wonder?

Caco

Let's agree to disagree on the major premise ... perhaps over a beer or two, I think it would be an interesting conversation!

I abhor the slippery slope of the kind of people who take Health and Safety to a degree that makes any tolerance of risk unbearable and punishes anybody who moves outside the ever tightening parameters of tolerated risk and behavior. This is the type of thinking that caused me to walk out of a contract in London when I was read the riot act by a pimply teenage **** in a highviz jacket who called himself a 'building security executive' because I stood on my desk to change the starter in a fluorescent light in my office after requesting three times over two days that it be changed, I did it myself.

Back to Mr. Cohen, I cannot see how you can do anything other than condemn his behaviour given the circumstances.

I am no angel, when I was in my 20's, I rode my bike with the throttle fully open, no crash helmet, in shorts and t-shirt, on the old Stellenbosch Road, the one that parallels the N2, to see how fast it would go (240 kph if you want to know). Utterly, utterly stupid, but I was 22 and I was really only endangering myself as it was rare to see anything else moving on that road, and we'd done a reccie before anyway. This man is 42 and an accountant.

sisemen
2nd Oct 2011, 16:13
Some people fly single engined aircraft over long stretches of open sea (as I have).

A more apt analogy in this case would be to fly an aircraft with an entry in the maintenance release which says "ailerons inoperative - do not fly"

hellsbrink
2nd Oct 2011, 16:15
Or to say "Oh, the fuel gauge reads just above *E*. I'll take off and fly across the bay anyway"......

Cacophonix
2nd Oct 2011, 22:26
Capetonian

Not one bit of it

Caco

I will ignore Hells cos he ain't a pilot!

Cacophonix
3rd Oct 2011, 00:23
I am no angel, when I was in my 20's, I rode my bike with the throttle fully open, no crash helmet, in shorts and t-shirt, on the old Stellenbosch Road, the one that parallels the N2, to see how fast it would go (240 kph if you want to know). Utterly, utterly stupid, but I was 22 and I was really only endangering myself as it was rare to see anything else moving on that road, and we'd done a reccie before anyway. This man is 42 and an accountant.

Dude if you had [email protected]@d up and your bloodied body had slammed into Armco near me, we would have you up and made you better without any bumbling, nasty, questions, about geld!

Caco

Exascot
3rd Oct 2011, 06:20
This man is 42 and an accountant

I know he lost a leg, did he lose a foot as well - just wondering if he can now only count up to 10 as taking his shoes and socks off would not help :rolleyes:

Caco your argument is bull....t.

Solid Rust Twotter
3rd Oct 2011, 06:30
...did he lose a foot as well...

Well, he's definitely not as tall as he used to be...

hellsbrink
3rd Oct 2011, 15:24
I know he lost a leg, did he lose a foot as well - just wondering if he can now only count up to 10 as taking his shoes and socks off would not help

10.5 if he drops his shorts..............

skwinty
3rd Oct 2011, 15:39
With respect to the issue of payment for rescue services rendered:

If you believe that this man should pay for all the rescue services, then you should believe that the same should apply to motor accident victims.

We have all been warned that driving a motor vehicle is a dangerous and risky endeavour, yet we all ignore those warnings.

Just saying.:E

hellsbrink
3rd Oct 2011, 15:46
Not necessarily, skwinty, as you may be the victim of a motor accident yet not be at fault (i.e. the one that caused it).

Also, all costs from emergency services can be paid from your car insurance IF the police/fire/NHS decide to go for them if you were driving like an arse and caused the accident (like you used to be billed from the fire brigade if your chimney went on fire, dunno if they still do that, or how you could be billed for them washing fuel off the road if you have an accident).

That's in the UK, at least, over here you get billed for ambulance and can get billed for every other cost incurred due to you having an accident (and usually do get billed no matter what)

skwinty
3rd Oct 2011, 16:17
I was put in ICU for 7 days through no fault of my own.

If I did not have medical insurance I would still be paying the bill in twenty years time.

One thing is for sure, the guilty person paid nothing other than than for the petrol he uses.

If I did not have insurance, who would have paid?

Would I have been left on the side of the road to die?

I think it would be a futile exercise to try and force individuals to pay for helicopter trips to hospital and so on. Do the NSRI charge an individual for the costs of their rescue?

hellsbrink
3rd Oct 2011, 16:27
And, probably, your medical insurance could have recouped the costs from the person(s) who put you in the ICU IF they wanted to (can't say for certain as I don't know the Safa system).


As far as the NSRI goes, they themselves don't charge (according to what I read online) because of their charitable status and the use of volunteers. But that doesn't apply to every country and it certainly doesn't apply to getting a helicopter out to look for/airlift someone.

skwinty
3rd Oct 2011, 16:34
Therein lies the rub:

How does any one recover R350,000.00 from some one who is earning a minimum wage or unemployed?

hellsbrink
3rd Oct 2011, 16:36
That's up to the insurance people to figure out, skwinty, and they could start by taking his car.

The point is that I reckon they could go for all the costs that they had to pay out because of him, and take money from him for as long as necessary to pay the bill IF they felt like doing it.

skwinty
3rd Oct 2011, 16:49
Needless to say, if this gentleman has insurance, all costs should be covered by his medical insurance and it would not be practical to make an individual who does not have the resources or insurance pay a huge bill like that.

The person would have to have a lifespan of 500 years to pay the costs of such a rescue.

It cannot be a hard and fast rule that the victim is expected to cover all the cost.

hellsbrink
3rd Oct 2011, 17:35
But the threat of it might make some people think twice about ignoring obvious warnings regarding the presence of sharks in the area, or from doing other things. Let's face it, many things we do are supposed to be done with some responsibility. If you cannot be responsible, you should pay the price no matter what your earnings are.........


And since the idiot involved in the reason for this thread was not some joey who was unemployed or on minimum wage, I say go for the costs.

skwinty
3rd Oct 2011, 18:26
If the threat of being eaten by a shark didn't deter him, why do you think that the threat of a financial repercussion would deter him?

Some people just don't think.:hmm:

11Fan
3rd Oct 2011, 18:35
If he thinks the shark that attacked him was vicious, wait until he meets the ones dressed up as lawyers collecting the money.

Lyman
3rd Oct 2011, 18:41
No record anywhere of a Lawyer being bitten by a shark.


Professional courtesy.